Do human economies and the concepts of "value" and "profit" violate the first and second law of thermodynamics?
Have we all collectively agreed to work in the framework of unsustainable and moronic systems?
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>Do human economies and the concepts of "value" and "profit" violate the first and second law of thermodynamics?
No, human economies need fuel. The total entropy always increases
Debt economies predicated on infinite growth violate both thermodynamics and common sense.
But this was by design and you don't have to worry about it. Goy cattle never had a chance.
Beat me to it
but the book has some errors
>Debt economies predicated on infinite growth violate both thermodynamics and common sense.
No economy is predicated on infinite debt
>No economy is predicated on infinite debt
That's not what I said.
Debt economies are predicated on infinite growth, not on infinite debt.
Unless the economy keeps growing at a decent rate you won't be able to pay the interest on the ballooning debt that has already spiraled out of control in many first-world countries.
Since resources are finite and the carrying capacity of the planet is also finite that means there is a hard cap on capital and labor. Which means infinite growth is impossible and default is inevitable in the long run.
>you won't be able to pay the interest
You can if the effective average interest drops to zero. This happens when no one can pay interest
>but muh infinite growth
moron-tier kindergarten cliche. Value is slowly being moved into a virtual space where you cannot run out of anything.
>a virtual space where you cannot run out of anything
Humans consume resources even just to exist.
You're fricking moronic.
>Humans consume resources even just to exist.
So? Go ahead and show that economic growth is impossible without constant growth of the population.
>Do human economies and the concepts of "value" and "profit" violate the first and second law of thermodynamics?
no
value is entirely subjective
>value is subjective
Exactly.
Jesse, what the frick are you talking about?
As a rule of thumb, if you ever find yourself referencing Gödel's incompleteness theorems/quantum phenomena/thermodynamics/evolution/any scientific concept outside of its original context, you are almost certainly being a midwit pseud. Your case is no exception. How exactly do human economies violate thermodynamics? Try to elaborate on it with any degree of rigor and detail and you'll find that you can't and it's all just a bunch of vague and moronic metaphor-driven reasoning full of holes.
Value is objective at the level of society.
labour objectively needs resources in order to reproduce it's self.
>Value is objective at the level of society.
>labour objectively needs resources in order to reproduce it's self
Value has nothing to do with labor, one has to value an idea or project in general to work on it, any brain dead monkey should realize this in 5 minutes.
>Value is fundamentally tied to labour and profit is derived from labour
I thought you morons were gone when economists figured out marginal utility was true?
Work has nothing to do with how consumers value anything, that Marxist moronation is for good reason considered fringe economics
>Work has nothing to do with how consumers value anything
Not fully, but in order to create any thing which has value (despite how ultimately ridiculous this value judgement is) requires some form of labour, hence the two being fundamentally tied. The conception of value may not be related to labour, but the acquisition is
>the two being fundamentally tied.
Mhmm, through the supply and demand of labor. Not that guy but you sound pretty moronic.
My point was merely that value is dependent and therefore related to labour on some fundamental level, if anything it sounds like you agree with me and disagree with him as he claimed these concepts have nothing to do with each other
>My point was merely that value is dependent and therefore related to labour on some fundamental level
It's an irrelevant point since the value of goods is not directly related to the value of labor and nothing in what you said justifies your assertion that value is objective.
I agree they are not directly related, hence why I say the framework itself is quite moronic, but value can be seen as objective in the terms that labour is basically the fundamental 'gold standard' backing for it. There are many more variables which affect the final perception of value but without labour in the process it would always be 0
>labour is basically the fundamental 'gold standard' backing for it.
There's not much of a gold standard when your pieces of gold not only vary in value from being nearly worthless to being worth a fortune, but this value depends on almost arbitrary circumstances that change both with time and place? Are you actually disabled?
It was an analogy
Any changes in valuation of the labour happen after the standard is applied, the labour itself remains equal as a unit of value by itself
> labour itself remains equal as a unit of value by itself
Are you actually moronic? The "units" of labor are people.
The units are the abstracted labour term I'm using to tie into the abstracted concept of value
There is no such "abstracted unit of laber". This is just some vague and undefined bullshit in your head.
It is vague but the definition is pretty obvious, it's the work which humans carry out, it's vague in the sense of actually quantifying it, as is true value in general. The point isn't to quantify though I was just trying to show the relationship between the two
Theres a value of an hour of minimum wage labor or an hour of high valued labor such as $500/hour lawyer fees but theres no unit of labor. Although one could simply talk about man-hours of labor, qualified by the type of labor.
>Value is objective
Agreed. The value of a woman is a $5 per month onlyfans subscription.
Value is fundamentally tied to labour and profit is derived from labour, the amount of work done by humans on earth = profit
While the framework is unarguably moronic in a lot of ways, the labour performed by humans will always have some sort of value with regards to ordered and higher level thinking effects on earth
No. Values are created with technology that churns out more final products out from raw materials. Whether that value is traded by human laborers building those materials or robots doing it with humans involvement, the value creation is part of the labor process.
no
>Have we all collectively agreed to work in the framework of unsustainable and moronic systems?
Although people have been kicking around in the neighborhood of the origin for hundreds of years hoping to find something they haven't seen yet, you can tell in one second that there's no point even thinking about the neighborhood of infinity because obviously there is nothing to be found there. Duh.
Bro is there any way to use some coordinate mapping to take this infinity to an easier to visualize point?