Do Old Calendar Orthodox Reject the New Calendar because they think it's Pagan?

Are their reasons like picrel or no?

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Orthos can you answer????

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Do Old Calendar Orthodox reject the New Calendar because they think it's pagan?
    I don't know. But if they do then they're really fricking stupid, since the Julian calendar (and the name suggests) was mainly composed by Julius Caesar; notorious pagan high-priest (among other thing).

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This other group opposes the Julian Calendar too. It says to use the Israelite calendar. However, it's not Old Calendar Orthodox. I want an Old Calendar perspective.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >the sabbath was on saturday
    >the lord's day is on sunday
    >christians shouldn't observe the sabbath
    There, saved you a priest's whingefest

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >All serious and concerned Orthodox Christians should pay attention to this work of Fr. Basil, especially today when there is talk by the modernists of changing the Orthodox Paschalia. The translation and printing of this study is especially precious since the texts of the three condemnations of the Gregorian Calendar enacted by Pan-Orthodox councils in the 16th Century [...]

    >These condemnations were never lifted by any later council—they still stand and are binding for all Orthodox Christians. The innovation of the New Calendar brought about schism in all the local churches that adopted it. Thus, Greece, Cyprus, Rumania, and now Bulgaria have tasted the fruits of disobedience.

    >“Glory and honor,” therefore, in the words of the Holy Apostle, to all who hold fast the traditions and keep the Faith as we have received it without additions or subtractions even though they be slandered and persecuted.

    >Introduction by Metropolitan Philaret of New York,
    The 14th of April, 1972

    https://www.hotca.org/orthodoxy/orthodox-awareness/203-the-calendar-question#Appendix1

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Did the iconoclasts not deride the Orthodox for considering the icons, that is, boards and colours, as a dogma of the faith? Yet, who among the Orthodox of today can deny the dogmatic significance of the icons? Concerning this question, Father Paul, a monk of the Holy Sepulcher, remarked most justly that a board, before it has the countenance of our Saviour portrayed upon it, is but a common piece of wood which we may burn up or destroy. From the moment, however, that we paint the icon of Christ, the King of All, upon it, this wood becomes sanctified and a source of sanctification for us, even though the wood be of inferior quality. Likewise, the solar calendar, insofar as it is a calendar of days and months is, in itself, nothing to be esteemed. But from the moment when the Holy Church placed Her seal upon it and organized Her life upon this foundation, even though it has become astronomically erroneous, still it remains holy! The calendar is no longer Julian, but ecclesiastical, just as the board is no longer a simple piece of wood but an icon.

      >Fr. Basil Sakkas, The Calendar Question

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Did the iconoclasts not deride the Orthodox for considering the icons, that is, boards and colours, as a dogma of the faith? Yet, who among the Orthodox of today can deny the dogmatic significance of the icons? Concerning this question, Father Paul, a monk of the Holy Sepulcher, remarked most justly that a board, before it has the countenance of our Saviour portrayed upon it, is but a common piece of wood which we may burn up or destroy. From the moment, however, that we paint the icon of Christ, the King of All, upon it, this wood becomes sanctified and a source of sanctification for us, even though the wood be of inferior quality. Likewise, the solar calendar, insofar as it is a calendar of days and months is, in itself, nothing to be esteemed. But from the moment when the Holy Church placed Her seal upon it and organized Her life upon this foundation, even though it has become astronomically erroneous, still it remains holy! The calendar is no longer Julian, but ecclesiastical, just as the board is no longer a simple piece of wood but an icon.

      >Fr. Basil Sakkas, The Calendar Question

      >The Condemnation of the New Calendar in 1593.

      >This Council took place in February, 1593, in the Holy Church of the Mother of God of Consolation. In its Eighth Canon, it prescribes the following concerning the change of the calendar:

      >Concerning the rejection of the new calendar, that is, the innovation of the Latins regarding the celebration of Pascha. We wish that that which has been decreed by the Fathers concerning Holy and Salutary Pascha remain unshaken…Let all those who have dared to transgress the definitions regarding the Holy Feast of the Salutary Pascha be excommunicated and rejected from the Church of Christ.

      >The Patriarch of Constantinople Jeremy II
      >The Patriarch of Antioch Joachim
      >The Patriarch of Jerusalem Sophronius
      >The Patriarch of Alexandria Meletius

      >According to Polycarp, Bishop of Diaulia (Cf. The Change of the Calendar. Athens, 1947. p. 13) “…in 1593, a Council of the Orthodox Churches was convoked at Constantinople where the four patriarchs, the plenipotentiary of the Russian Church and many other Orthodox hierarchs representing the Orthodox Churches participated. This Council reiterated the excommunication of the Most Holy Patriarch Jeremy II and issued an encyclical which, among other things, stated the following:

      >He that does not follow the customs of the Church which were decreed by the Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils which have ordained well that we observe the Holy Pascha and the Menologion, and wishes to follow the new Paschalia and Menologion of the Pope’s astronomers, and, opposing himself to all these things, wishes to overturn and destroy them, let him be anathema and outside of the Church of Christ and the assembly of the faithful…”

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Did the iconoclasts not deride the Orthodox for considering the icons, that is, boards and colours, as a dogma of the faith? Yet, who among the Orthodox of today can deny the dogmatic significance of the icons? Concerning this question, Father Paul, a monk of the Holy Sepulcher, remarked most justly that a board, before it has the countenance of our Saviour portrayed upon it, is but a common piece of wood which we may burn up or destroy. From the moment, however, that we paint the icon of Christ, the King of All, upon it, this wood becomes sanctified and a source of sanctification for us, even though the wood be of inferior quality. Likewise, the solar calendar, insofar as it is a calendar of days and months is, in itself, nothing to be esteemed. But from the moment when the Holy Church placed Her seal upon it and organized Her life upon this foundation, even though it has become astronomically erroneous, still it remains holy! The calendar is no longer Julian, but ecclesiastical, just as the board is no longer a simple piece of wood but an icon.

      >Fr. Basil Sakkas, The Calendar Question

      [...]
      >The Condemnation of the New Calendar in 1593.

      >This Council took place in February, 1593, in the Holy Church of the Mother of God of Consolation. In its Eighth Canon, it prescribes the following concerning the change of the calendar:

      >Concerning the rejection of the new calendar, that is, the innovation of the Latins regarding the celebration of Pascha. We wish that that which has been decreed by the Fathers concerning Holy and Salutary Pascha remain unshaken…Let all those who have dared to transgress the definitions regarding the Holy Feast of the Salutary Pascha be excommunicated and rejected from the Church of Christ.

      >The Patriarch of Constantinople Jeremy II
      >The Patriarch of Antioch Joachim
      >The Patriarch of Jerusalem Sophronius
      >The Patriarch of Alexandria Meletius

      >According to Polycarp, Bishop of Diaulia (Cf. The Change of the Calendar. Athens, 1947. p. 13) “…in 1593, a Council of the Orthodox Churches was convoked at Constantinople where the four patriarchs, the plenipotentiary of the Russian Church and many other Orthodox hierarchs representing the Orthodox Churches participated. This Council reiterated the excommunication of the Most Holy Patriarch Jeremy II and issued an encyclical which, among other things, stated the following:

      >He that does not follow the customs of the Church which were decreed by the Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils which have ordained well that we observe the Holy Pascha and the Menologion, and wishes to follow the new Paschalia and Menologion of the Pope’s astronomers, and, opposing himself to all these things, wishes to overturn and destroy them, let him be anathema and outside of the Church of Christ and the assembly of the faithful…”

      >In 1909 the future Patriarch is initiated into freemasonry. Zervoudakis writes: "After initiation, Brother Meletius spread his Masonic activity everywhere he went throughout his tumultuous life."
      the greek patriarch who was behind the calendar change

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Did the iconoclasts not deride the Orthodox for considering the icons, that is, boards and colours, as a dogma of the faith? Yet, who among the Orthodox of today can deny the dogmatic significance of the icons? Concerning this question, Father Paul, a monk of the Holy Sepulcher, remarked most justly that a board, before it has the countenance of our Saviour portrayed upon it, is but a common piece of wood which we may burn up or destroy. From the moment, however, that we paint the icon of Christ, the King of All, upon it, this wood becomes sanctified and a source of sanctification for us, even though the wood be of inferior quality. Likewise, the solar calendar, insofar as it is a calendar of days and months is, in itself, nothing to be esteemed. But from the moment when the Holy Church placed Her seal upon it and organized Her life upon this foundation, even though it has become astronomically erroneous, still it remains holy! The calendar is no longer Julian, but ecclesiastical, just as the board is no longer a simple piece of wood but an icon.

      >Fr. Basil Sakkas, The Calendar Question

      This helps me understand it more. They say it's been condemned and never lifted and they stand for the Julian Calendar. They didn't want to add or subtract from it since it was from the church beginning. The argument against this however is the church can make things holy.

      That's different from the argument above that both the Gregorian and Julian calendars are bad because they are pagan.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        When the Church adopted the Julian calendar it was also corrected and qas supposed to be permanent, somewhere in the text linked in my first post it mentions that they were aware that in the future there will be an astronomical delay of days.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So the Gregorian Calendar was made to adapt to the lost days. The church adopted the Julian Calendar at 46 AD correct or was it later on?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The whole Church adopted it at the First Ecumenical Council.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Having studied our Paschalion, we are irresistibly penetrated with awe at the ingenious work of the Alexandrian scientists who attained, in the Paschalion, an unalterable bond of the lunar with the solar Julian calendar. Alexandrian astronomers of the third century well knew the moronation of the Julian calendar from the sun. Nevertheless, they did not reject the Julian calendar, but wisely made use of its errors for a stable concordance with the lunar year, which lies at the basis of our Paschalion. The Julian calendar remains behind the true solar time, and the lunar one also remains behind together with the Julian calendar. “The lunar year is found to be eternally tied to the Julian one and a perpetual moronation of the former from the latter is not possible. The lag of the Julian year is equal to the lag of the lunar one. The equinox morons equally in both chronologies.”

    >The difference between the lunar and our Julian calendar does not exceed an hour and a half in the lapse of a thousand years. We can see for ourselves how all the Paschal full-moons calculated for thousands of years ahead in our Paschalion fall precisely on all the indicated dates of the Julian calendar, but do not at all coincide with the Gregorian calendar.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The unalterable tie of the lunar calendar with the Julian is made especially vivid by the following constant, periodical phenomena: we know that the lunar cycle equals 19 years while the solar cycle equals 28 years. Let us analyze these numbers by primary multipliers: 19=1x19; 28=4x7. What happens when we cross-multiply them? 19x4=76, i.e., that period of 76 years upon whose lapse the beginning of the lunar year coincides in precision with the beginning of the Julian one (as shown in chapter three).

      >Now, if we multiply 76 by 7, we arrive at 532, i.e., that period upon whose lapse, Pascha again occurs on the same days and months on which it was celebrated from the very beginning and during the whole length of the indiction.

      >In view of such a stable bond of the lunar year with the Julian, there can be no talk of any change from the Julian calendar, for otherwise there would unavoidably occur a violation of the entire well-formed and harmonious system of our Paschalion and the introduction of a great confusion in all Paschal calculations.

      >If, however, the knowledge of the Italian scientists of the 16th century had even approached the knowledge of the compilers of the paschalion (the Alexandrian scientists of the 3rd century), then they themselves would have rejected their own plan of calendar reform. Unfortunately, they were far from the enlightenment of the Alexandrian scientists who already, in the 3rd century knew very well what the Italian scientists came to understand only in the 16th century—the moronation of the calendar.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >The steadfast fidelity of the Orthodox to Tradition—in spite of the arrests, the destruction of Churches, and the unfrocking of the clergy—turned simple Christians into contemporary Confessors of the Faith. During one police patrol, and while the Saint was liturgizing, the congregation realized that the police were attempting to locate the then well hidden Church. The nuns and biological sisters of the Saint besought him to chant in a subdued voice, lest they be discovered. But he, full of faith, said: “God will make them deaf, my daughters.” In fact, although the police were a breath away from the Church, they did not notice the presence of the assembled faithful, in spite of the holy Priest’s loud and strong voice. In another parallel case, when the Saint was on his own, the police burst in like wild beasts in order to arrest the “unlawful” clergyman. Although the Saint was beside the Holy Table and was praying, they left the Church in a huff without seeing him, as though he did not exist.

    >At times, children who were in the Church testified that the devout celebrant of the Divine Mysteries, silent and misty-eyed during the performance of the Divine Mystery, levitated, and they would exclaim: “The Priest is in the air.” Another astonishing event was the restoration to life of a baby, shortly after the Divine Liturgy, whom his mother, wishing to feed him hastily, had [accidently] choked. Insensible, without a trace of life, he was placed at the feet of the Saint at the very same moment by his calm mother, who was full of faith. The ardent possessor of the gift of healing—and not that alone—took the child in his arms, breathed three times onto his face, made the sign of the Cross over him, and lifted him up, saying: “In the name of Christ, arise.” As by a miracle, the child returned to life.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Holy men, by reason of their genuineness, succeed in becoming united with the uncreated Divine Energies. “Holy are they who, on account of their exceeding purity of heart, have beheld and experienced the radiance of God.” St. Hieronymos of Ægina, who also hailed from Asia Minor, discerned such a radiance in Father John’s countenance. St. Hieronymos testifies that he refused to confess Father John, as the latter requested while on a visit to Ægina, since he perceived his sanctity immediately upon his arrival. He saw that Father John was bathed in light and elevated above the earth.

      >Shortly before his repose, the good Elder, after partaking of the Divine Mysteries, addressing the doctors who were beside his pillow, said to them: “Let me now go to my rest. Thank you; you are all in my prayers.” He inclined his head, folded his arms in the from of a cross with his prayer rope, looked upwards, turned his gaze toward the Icon of our sweet Panagia with the look of a child waiting on its mother’s affection, and closed his eyes. It was the evening of January 26, twelve midnight, that is, January 27, 1966, when his holy soul, childlike in innocence and ardent in faith, departed for its eternal habitation in the Kingdom of Heaven.

      some info about the greek old calendarist Saint John the New Almsgiver and Wonder-Worker

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Appearance of the Cross Near Athens in 1925

    >In 1925, on the eve of the feast of the Exaltation of the All-Honorable and Life-giving Cross of our Savior, 14 September according to the Orthodox Church calendar, the All-night Vigil was served at the Church of St. John the Theologian in suburban Athens. By nine o'clock that evening, more that two thousand of the true-Orthodox faithful had gathered in and around the church for the service, since only a few true-Orthodox churches had been unwittingly left open by the civil authorities - most had been closed. Such a large gathering of the people could not, however, go unnoticed by the authorities. Around 11PM the authorities dispatched a battalion of police to the church "to prevent any disorders which might arise from such a large gathering."

    >At 11:30PM, there began to appear in the heavens above the church, to the northeast, a bright, radiant Cross of light. It illuminated not only the church and the faithful but, in its rays, the stars of the clear, cloudless sky paled and the churchyard was filled with an almost tangible light. The form of the Cross itself was an especially dense light which could be clearly seen as a Byzantine cross with a crossbar toward the bottom. This heavenly miracle lasted for half an hour, until midnight, and then the Cross began to rise vertically, as the cross in the hands of the priest does in the ceremony of the elevation of the Cross in church.

    >Human language is not adequate to convey what took place during the apparition. The entire crowd fell prostate upon the ground with tears and began to sign prayers, praising the Lord with one heart and one mouth. The police were among those who wept, suddenly discovering, in the depths of their hearts, a childlike faith. The crowd of believers and the battalion of police were transformed into one united flock of faithful. All were seized with a holy ecstasy.

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