Everyone talks about crime and Punishment and Karamazov but this is my favorite Dostoevsky novel. His analysis of the young extremists is so accurate it hurts.
Everyone talks about Crime and Punishment and Karamazov but this is my favorite Dostoevsky novel.
> is so accurate it hurts.
Jamie, pull up the soi meme
It has one of the best build ups in narrative history. Nothing else comes close with how the story starts so slow and steadily accelerates to pure insanity.
This. The final acts are absolute chaos.
The patricians’ choice of Dostoevsky novels.
it really is underrated. it has its flaws stemming from needing to be rewritten, but its still great as is. a personal favorite for sure. its a goddamn roller coaster of feels. absolutely hilarious and gut-wrenchingly sad, anger-inducing, and bitter-sweet, and the way the narrative slowly unfolds until shit hits the fan is great
>it has its flaws stemming from needing to be rewritten
Filtered
pseud
its flaws are apparent but its still one of my all time favorites. I was in no way filtered
What flaws?
its pretty apparent when you get into the second half of the book that he was indecisive as to what to do with stovrogin since his original plans were ruined by censorship and you can feel that the narrative hits a few speed bumps in that regard. I still consider the finished product among my favorite novels though.
for dostoyevsky ive only read the penguin edition of Demons and it was a great translation (maguire) with heaps of endnotes and of course the censored chapter is included. I would definitely recommend it.
>he was indecisive as to what to do with stovrogin since his original plans were ruined by censorship
I don't think the removal of the priest scene hurts the book that much. Instead of Stovrogin committing suicide because he feels guilt about being a rapist and a murderer he commits suicide because he was responsible for his fiance's murder.
The priest confession is included in all editions.
i recall reading somewhere that the plans for stovrogins character were notably different and he was supposed to be the absolute focus of the novel, and a lot of the novel was re-written to cope with the censorship since the scene was so important to his character development. also reading the book, i recall there being a period where stovrogin kind of just drops of the face of the earth for quite a while and it kinda disrupts the flow of the narrative and the focus on him as the protagonist of the novel, and I cant help but wonder if that happens because dosto was unsure of what to do with him
definitely the most insightful of his novels, in hindsight at least. the characters feel like they could be alive today.
the people who say that c+p is there favourite book are usually just pseuds who haven’t even read it
you’re probably just a pedo though who fapped to the scene where the mc raped a young girl
notes from the underground fits this much more
Shatov 100% listened to Linkin Park
Shatov was a good lad.
yeh, broke my heart when they done him in. If he was born in another place and time he would've had a chance at a good life.
I didn't know it was based on a real crime, so when it happened it hit me even harder because I hoped he would be saved
had no idea it was based on a real dude/crime either
That grotto scene is one of the best in literature. For all of Dostoyevsky’s flaws, the build up, and the high points are worth it. Few writers, or maybe none, reach Dostoyevsky’s ceiling
>his flaws
Such as? Just asking your opinion.
I think he can be a little too melodramatic at times. He also has a lot of filler. Some it is a great build up that leads to great scenes, but that doesn’t make it any better to read when you’re actually reading it. His writing can be stilted at times, no matter what translation, and my Russian friends confirm this. He’s still arguably the greatest novelist ever, but no one is perfect
I suddenly know what it is to be a women, because I simply adore his melodrama. I struggle to see what part of it could be filler. It seems to me that everything is absolutely crucial to the entire work, barring the exception in Notes from a Dead house, which is basically nothing but (Marvelous!) filler.
They weren't big yet, much less in the east
>His analysis of the young extremists is so accurate it hurts
It isn't accurate.
Dosto was criticized for exaggerating how violent and self-destructive young leftists were but in hindsight he greatly underestimated them.
It’s literally his spin on a real world event. All the main characters are based on real people
I love how Dostoevsky creates his characters and naturally lets them interact inside their world. He doesn’t push the narrative more than when the characters naturally do it themselves. That’s why I love this book so much.
Bothers Karamazov is also like that
just bought this book because of all the hype itt, better be frickin good. for the record i've given up on c&p twice (after the murder) at different points in my life, closed notes after about ten pages and just chuckled to myself when i flipped thru the wall of text in my karamazov copy
C&P gets a little better after a certain tragedy to Sonya's family (i love her).
And I personally liked The Idiot a lot more.
Sonya was an annoying whiny b***h
Demons is Dostoyevsky's hardest novel to read and it takes 150 pages before really starting
I liked Demons more from a literary POV, but C&P was definitely easier and more fun to read for me. Good luck.
you’ll never finish it if you haven’t read his other books. Definitely his hardest
It’s not fricking hunger games. Real novels aren’t meant to coddle you and cater to your specific attention span, which sounds like it’s similar to a goldfish
the rambling just gets on my breasts, and all the characters are fricking moronic
Juvenile, empy criticism. You have to be 18 to post here.
calm down you two, i just don't dig the guy's style. but i'm giving him another chance!
i think youll like it. its just a slow burn but it really escalates in the last part
im just teasing fren. im glad youre giving it another try
>gets on my breasts
i think reddit would love to talk about john green with you. maybe youre better suited there
I read this some time ago but I don't remember much from it. Probably because the translation I read (P&V) was really dry. I'll have to pick up a different translation and read it again some time.
Pretty much every book by him is about young extremists. You just pick the spices with specific dosto books.
Based. The last third of the book is awesome and he is deadly accurate with some of his characterizations
Just getting in reading some Russian literature, so far I've only finished Notes From Underground. What translation do you guys recommend for Demons? There seems to be a lot of debate over which version is best.
I read the Michael Katz translation and had no problems, but I haven't read the others.
I read the peaver and volokhonsky and it was pretty good, although their translations are pretty hot and miss. I didn’t like their notes from underground.
Can’t go wrong with Constance Garnett
>hot
Hit and miss
Constance Garnett seems the most "true to text" in my opinion.
Hers are the least "true to text" but the most pleasant to read.
I noticed her translation keeps the word "Black person" in C&P while the other copies I own translate it as "Black."
You need to take a break from being online if this is your criteria for what translation to read. Garnett is generally seen as the worst Dostoyevsky translator, among the popular ones, from Russians, critics and hobby readers alike. IQfy just likes going against the grain
I read the P/V translation of Notes from Underground and didn't really love it. Don't know if it was because of them or the book itself so I think I'll try Garnett, thanks.
Demons is probably my least favorite Dostoevsky. Not that it's bad, just far less memorable than The Idiot or The Brothers Karamazov.
What makes you say that? I thought Stepan, Pytor, Kirillov and Fedya were all memorable characters. My only complaint is that the book has a slow start.
Can anyone tell me how good are the Penguin novels? Everyone in this board recommending me peaver and volokhonsky translation
Pretty good. Those are usually Garnett. At least my copy of “the idiot” is Garnett
Penguin doesn't use Garnett for anything that I'm aware of. They might have at one point, but not for some time. The Penguin translations of Brothers Karamazov and Crime and Punishment are good (both by David McDuff). I haven't read Penguin for anything else by Dosto, but I've read their translation of Goncharov's Oblomov (done by David Magarshack) and found it very readable. I wouldn't recommend P&V because I found their translation of Demons to be very dry.
you're right. i was thinking of barnes and noble classics
Why is this the only place on the internet or in real life that recommends Garnett?
How many Dostoevsky-readers do you know in real life?
Quite a few. Maybe the most famous literary writer ever
I must live in the wrong neighborhood. Even the literary people I know only read John Grisham or Vince Flynn if they're men or Janet Evanovich if they're women.
What?
Actually I'm thinking of my boomer dad and aunt. They're the only people I know irl who read.
That's pretty cool that you have relatives that actually read. I wish my parents read. Imagine how fun it would be if you set up a little bookclub with your aunt? Maybe you two could meet up at her condo while her husband is away on his monthly conference in Dallas and explore new ideas together. Of course, first she will need to school you on the classics. Your aunt studied philosophy during pre-law and had a particular affinity for the greeks. You cringe at the memory of trying to impress her with a Nietzsche quote during one of you visits and remember how you stumbled awkwardly through an attempted explanation of Dionysian and Apollonian lifestyles in a desperate attempt to sound intellectual. She chuckled her soft musical laugh at my fumbling and suggested I demonstrate what a Dionysian man would act like as she unbuttened the top on her white blouse, and poured me another glass of wine. I admit, my eyes were lingering a few seconds too long every time I glanced at her stocking covered thighs as she leaned against the edge of the loveseat, her legs draped over my lap. She had been complaining about sore feet after having to work an important case at the firm, so I decided a Dionysian man would help his aunt with a massage. A massage that started something that changed my life forever.
kekd nice one, had me in the first half
Dostoyevsky isn’t some hipster writer
I wished I lived like that absolute paragon of IQfy my man Stephan. Shacked up with a milf living like a neet and tutoring little girls about literature and speaking french all day and lamenting and fretting and just being the essence of this board.
Stephan is the god of IQfy.
the whole time I was reading I imagined him wearing a Lincoln top hat
ye im gonna go with the gambler
filtered
Did you read it?
About 400 pages in and so far it has been really tiring to read. Especially Stepan's annoying sadboy monologue is just unbearable.