>Faith is the surrender of the mind; it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals. It's our need to believe, and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me.
Christcucks still seething. Greatest English prose stylist since Higginbotham.
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is Higginbotham a real person or are you just mocking english names
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Higginbotham
That doesn't answer his question.
Shit.
He could say that while he lived, drank and ate.
Death is the last frontier that is unknowable.
The soldiers say there are no atheists in the trenches, and they are right.
Likewise, the children of wealthy fathers deny their influence that created their careers. They exalt themselves, but when their fathers die, and when the producers cancel their contracts, that's when they turn to their dead fathers.
What awaits us on the Last Frontier?
This is not an idle question, because we will all be there.
> The soldiers say there are no atheists in the trenches, and they are right
No they don’t, morons say they say this
>the soldiers say there are no atheists in the trenches
This is bullshit, I was in Afghanistan and there were plenty of people that didn't believe. I hear this a lot and it's usually by people that haven't spent a day in the military.
>I was in Afghanistan
So you shot some poor goat-herders and played COD on an xbox? Must have been hell
I've never understood the whole "HA! See, no one is an atheist when facing death!". Um, okay, so you admit your entire belief system is based on an overwhelming fear of death and the need for a cope, even if this requires the sacrifice of your reason and mental faculties? That seems like more of a self-own than anything.
Don't get that either. I'm a dumbass goon that's gotten close to losing at life a few times and even the worst close call I was never scared or cried for my mommy or god. The only thought going through my head at the time was "man getting mauled to death by a grizzly is a shitty way to go."
>the only thing that makes us different from other mammals.
I didn't know animals came up with religions.
That's obviously not what he was implying.
Of course thats not his intention, but thats irrelevant to the contents of the argument. Obviously reason is not the only thing that distinguishes us from other mammals, yet he makes the claim anyways.
Ridiculous.
You put your faith in a thousand things every day you just don't think of it that way.
And if you put any faith in science tell me how is it any different than a religion to you at that point?
What's even more ridiculous is that plenty of animals are capable of basic reasoning (probably better than some humans) but I'd be surprised to see any of them displaying any kind of faith in something let alone a higher being. If there's one thing I don't like it's when pompous little worms like Hitchens try to glorify humans by way of putting down other animals as if you're not just a slightly smarter monkey.
>plenty of animals are capable of basic reasoning (probably better than some humans)
Straight nonsense there.
>If there's one thing I don't like it's when pompous little worms like Hitchens try to glorify humans by way of putting down other animals as if you're not just a slightly smarter monkey.
It's their residual Christianity flowing through their veins.
>Trusting that a chair you sit in is constructed properly and will hold your weight is totally the same thing as picking one of millions of religions and denominations and placing your faith that it is true, that you know aspects about "God", you know his wishes, and you know things about your fate after death
Religious people are by far the most disingenuous types of people
You put your faith in reality because you think have an understanding of it even knowing you really don't.
Is a faith based in arrogance better than a faith based in hope?
You literally cannot claim to be humble while also claiming you know God and have a personal relationship with him and also he created all of reality just with you in mind.
I mean who said anything about being humble? Nobody I've ever met who was staunchly religious or staunchly atheist has ever been humble lmao.
I eat, I need to take a shit.
I pray, nothing happens.
Simply being alive disproves any sort of divinity, at least in our perception. By perception I mean ALL perception, dreams visions etc.
For me it's simple inductive reasoning. The chair was anle to hold my weight tens of thousands of times, it will most likely do it again.
And faith doesn't make us different to other animals?
If he followed this logic to its conclusion then he'd be a solipsist. There's no evidence possible to prove to a solipsist they're wrong because all evidence apriori is a figment of their mind according to their presupposition of solipsism. Is it rational then to be a solipsist? Not at all. Just as it's not possible to present any evidence to an atheist that they're wrong, but their position is still irrational by virtue of the fact the presuppositions they have chosen to construct their worldview, epistemology, metaphysics and ethics, are incorrect and in the final analysis incompatible.
It's impossible to be a hardened materialist, to believe that everything is meaningless matter and construct an ethical system in line with this belief that people can actually live by. The mere assertion that there is some way of living that is better than other ways presumes a telos that atheists cannot oblige.
There is nothing more irrational than an atheist since the principles they assert to be true are ones they absolutely cannot live by.
Whenever somone uses the term "a priori" in their sentence I stop taking them seriously
Embarrassing
True, good post.
Hume tackles this very argument and I believe Hitchens references it. Basically, it is reasonable to infer that since you come into contact with novel information, and that the very existence of your perception is oriented outwards, toward this incoming information, that there does, in fact, exist an external world which contains other agents who are roughly like yourself. Strictly speaking, you do have to "presuppose" the existence of this external, objective world, but on the other hand, if you are willing to agree that "presuppositions" are exempt from real scrutiny, you must accept that they are areas for errors and as such must be kept to the absolute bare minimum possible for a coherent worldview, thus it is more reasonable to "presuppose" the basics of an objective world and not the superfluous hypothesis of a personal, caring, God.
Already a shitton of assumptions in that reasoning
Very pseud and snobbish thing to say. Much of the most sophisticated (and beautiful) art was created by spiritual people in glorification of their faith. Are other mammals capable of such expression?
Further, even in rationalizing/exploring their faith, mystics obviously utilize more reasoning (faulty or not) than the cleverest animals.
How "sinister" is the neoliberal establishment he so often pandered to? How evenly did he apply his skepticism?
I'm an atheist, and I still find this kind of posturing incredibly cringe.
>The mere assertion that there is some way of living that is better than other ways presumes a telos that atheists cannot oblige.
You see it this way because you're uncritical of your metaethical assumptions. An atheist can simply look to the apparent origin of morality (an evolved social strategy) for the 'telos' of moral behaviour (i.e. it provides health/survival advantages to a population).
Also, our lack of omniscience is an apodictic death blow to any notion of solipsism.
It's a dubious dichotomy really... All is presented through experience (it's always a requirement), and there's never a clear boundary between a purported 'form' and 'content' of experience (even Kant's attempt to save the distinction as 'synthetic a priori' runs into this problem).
Guess we're both irrational then. I prefer the irrationality of "nothing exists" to "pope has a phone line to sky daddy and when he says jump 1 billion christcucks jump" irrationality.
Solipsism isn't necessarily the most logical position, you would have to explain why there are other people who look like you, behave like you, have almost identical genes and yet don't truly exist or have no consciousness.
Reason is not just about proving things, it's about building mental models that have no contradictions, aren't convoluted and map well to observable reality.
It would be easy for God to prove himself, one real, public miracle would be enough.
What's impossible is disproving God.
>Imagine trusting your brain's ability to decipher the truth while simultaneously believing your brain is the result of a series of accidents and lucky draws
Atheism is self-defeating.
>guy is fat
opinion discarded
>Where art thou, brother dear? Ah yes. Alcohol, cigarettes and atheism killed you. Enjoy the fire, sinner.
>My worldview drives me to rejoice at eternal torment of my own brother for the sin of being honest and earnest about what he believed and what he was incapable of bringing himself to believe
Your mind on religion. At least Jesus was honest, he came to set family member against family member. That is to say, he was a force for evil.
>feesfees over truth
Your mind on atheism.
>Truth is what my priest at church tells me after he diddled my butt hole
Christianity is actually comical at this point
You can cry all you want, the truth will never cease being truth.
>You can cry all you want, the truth will never cease being truth.
>drawings will cerdainly refute him!!
moron
It will, though. Truth is relative.
Lol I was an altar boy and my priest taught me how to finesse b***hes. Dude was an old italian with at least three mistresses that I knew about. We're he not a man of the cloth he would be in jail for never paying child support. Top notch biblical scholar and he led me to the great Christian mystics so he's alright in my book.
This post is an example of Alinsky's "Always accuse your enemy of that which you yourself is guilty." Religionists, by their very nature, rely at bottom on sentimentality.
>Uh hey man, let's not talk about things that drive us apart. There's enough division in this country as it is. Now is a time to heal and come together. Let's talk about things we have in common, like our favorite brands, stores, and uh, like music and stuff. Religion just drives people apart and gives rise to hatred. We need science to tell us about the world. Hatred and forcing your beliefs on others? That ain't cool man. Have you ever seen the movie Religilous? .... Uh hey man, you ever been to Whataburger?
>surrender of the mind
lmao it’s surrender of the heart get filtered beyond the grave
He means sacrifice of the mind, which is correct. Faith disposes of our ability to reason and analyze in favor of pursuing pure desires. All animals pursue their desires without reason and analysis. What makes humans unique is our ability to reflect and reorganize our desires to some degree.
>faith is desire
Really crushing it anon
Incredible work, just marvelous
based
cringe
lame bait
Actually very good bait. Christcucks can't help embarrassing them selves. Gods still dead, Stacey sleeps around, churches are closing and there's no reward for your suffering.
>It's our need to believe, and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me.
So it's bad we need to have faith but we need to have it? Also, genuinely OP if you are curious, Pope John Paul II has an incredible encyclical on Christianity's relationship of reason and faith: https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_14091998_fides-et-ratio.html
>Still posting these embarrassing nu-Atheist quotes
NGMI
What's a good quote in defense of faith?
>it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals
Animals can reason, apes can even solve basic visual puzzles. I haven't yet seen an animal which has faith in a metaphysical being.
>faith is bad
>puts his faith in logic and science
hmm...
Refuted by Quintilian in the 1st-2nd century AC.
Hitchens was a massive loser and a cuck for George Bush just so that he could play le edgy alcoholic, tabacco-addicted contrarian. Americans fell for his "smart" accent. Imagine taking his views on religion seriously lol
Everything evolved out of a speck of matter that exploded some 13 billion years ago. No """"Creator"""" needed. Period. End of story.
Only the truly schizo christcuck will refuse to accept this obvious truth.
Hitchens was eternally butthurt that he got touched by some old nonce while he was a schoolboy and his brother didn't.
>surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals
>other mammals have religious faith
lmao what a fricking moron
What's the difference between faith and "apriori" axioms or whatever?
Even in the most skeptical position my sensory inputs and thoughts give me my apriori axioms even if that's just "I think therefore I am".
That establishes an axiom that things are happening but as soon as I try to apply any kind of logic to describe what's happening I need to include a logical first cause that's not bound by the logical need for a logical cause. That's defined by classical theists as God.
He attacked Christian morality from a perspective of Christian morality.
>36 replies in
>I am forgotten
who is that?
i forgot
It's James Higginbotham
Thats the modern notion of "faith". Faith and reason work fine in tandem from ancient Greece to scholasticism and remain active in the Catholic Church. To make the kind of statement he made you literally have to be historically clueless.
gahd is just a language game acted out by authoritarians, to show others how they should simp for them
just because I hate israelites doesbt mean I cant love them you adorable Black person.
“Reason” is just another word for faith
I started this thread yesterday as obvious and low quality bait and you uselessly contentious frickers keep it going up to 74 replies. What the frick?