What is the effect of various form of surnames on the culture of the country? Are countries with clan names more collectivist than the Patronymic users? Are those without family names at all the most free or individualist?
What is the effect of various form of surnames on the culture of the country?
pinkpilled portugal
Spaniards are morons. What a terrible system, Meanwhile Basedgal has the best. Obviosuly I'm not even taking into account Africa or Asia since they are barely humans.
Spanish naming is the best system for tracing genealogy.
Okay Ryan Dagoberto-Soto Fernando-Lopez.
wdym its literally the same as Portugal's but with a moronic order
traditional spanish naming records every surname, there was no limit and it was used to see if you were an old christian, it was normal to know up to 10 or so surnames. it was indeed a great way to keep genealogy aor to know where you come from without needing a moronic dna test
Even today, there's the "8 basque/Catalan/whatever surnames" meme to denote ancestry. So you're pretty much right.
The spanish way is unironically better you moron
It's the same shit, only with slightly different order
It's not. Mother surname's first is better because you can supress it while abbreviating the full name, turning it closer to the system used by other countries, by just using the father's surname.
I don't think surnames really shape culture, more like the other way around.
I see. So you believe more collectivist cultures emphasize the clan names while the more individualist ones forgo it entirely?
I think so. Also the more patriarchal cultures have patronymics, and the obvious example of that is the Middle East. Nevertheless, we shouldn't put too much emphasis on what this means about culture because surnames can arise in a variety of ways. England was a pretty patriarchal culture in the Middle Ages and yet that's when they basically stopped using patronymics and started using last names. It was to tell people apart from those with the same name and patronymic in the same place. It was once suggested that israelites in Belarus took on surnames based on female given names because israeli culture is more "matriarchal" or favourable towards women. In reality it was probably because they already had patronymics and so to have a last name based on the father's given name would be redundant (example: Avram Shmulev Shmulevich vs Avram Shmulev Sorkin).
true its because of the Quran
Tell that to Scotland, Norman’s, Samurai.
Is Hungarian naming order because of the Magyars' Asiatic origins or is it just pure coincidence?
I think it's coincidence, since other Central Asian peoples don't do it and the Asians who do it all got it from China.
everyone post their last name and we extract as much info from it as possible about your origins.
Fine I'll bite. My surname is Weld.
your ancestry is a long lineage of blacked cuckolds... i also see lots of gay anal sex...
You know call me crazy but I think that would be your answer no matter what name he said.
>weld
not european
I can't because it'd be an instant dox
I'm not gonna tell you but it means "Jesus River" in English.
Mendes
Willems
Clemente
Goldsteinberger.
Doxxenberg
my name is so purely Anglo-Saxon that the only place I've ever seen it outside of my own family was the name of a character in an H. P. Lovecraft short story
Upton
I have done a lot of research into this and as far as I can tell from records is originally, back in the old country, before my ancestors immigrated to America their name was Sneedbergstein but they changed it to just Sneed
Dequech
Cohen
Rothschild
Flavius Julius Sasanian Glowie Nigerius
Putin
My last name is so unusual you will be able to find my identity easily with it, so I won't post it.
Portugal really has its shit together in this one
Eastern slavs are based
I like patronymics. Especially in the way of Eastern Slavs where they sometimes address each other with just the given name and patronymic, leavig out the surname
"But, Mikhail Sergeyevich, if we…"
By family name, don't they just mean father's surname? I'm from Portugal
Basically yes, since is the man who passes down the family name, and the wife adopts it.
Here in Brazil we also adopt the portuguese system of mother + father surname, and it's actually pretty good for tracing genealogy.
I don’t understand how this works for multiple generations. Like would the surname of the next generation be four names, the following eight, etc? How is it decided which two names to choose for the child?
In the end only the father's surname is passed down to children.
My name have my mother's surname and my father's surname. My children's name will have my wife's father surname and my father's surname.
You can understand the origins of the grandfathers of both sides of the family. More than that becomes muddled. But it's better than other systems because it preserves the surname of the grandfather of mother side of the family for more than one generation. If you only have daughters your family name can still be preserved.
In more traditional families (mainly in Europe, not in Latinoamerica) you can even combo surnames for many different generations, resulting in huge-ass names. But for sake of simplicity this is not done anymore.
Thanks
>In more traditional families (mainly in Europe, not in Latinoamerica) you can even combo surnames for many different generations, resulting in huge-ass names.
This is a thing in the UK as well, especially among people with aristocratic backgrounds. People would choose to keep their mother's surname as well as their father's if the mum's name was from a good family. When you do this multiple times you end up with stupid surnames like Lane-Fox-Pitt-Rivers.
Portugal: Land of Intelligence
What's even the difference between clan names and regular family names. Certainly not size, considering there are millions of Smith running arounf
The definition of "clan" varies widely among cultures, but generally there's an idea that all members of a clan are related, if very distantly. Many cultures forbid marriage between members of the same clan because it's seen as incestuous, while others encourage membership within a clan in order to keep the family ties strong. People named "Smith" usually don't see each other as kinsmen.
*encourage marriage within a clan
I'd be more interested to know about middle names. Is it a western thing only? A modern naming convention? Why do some people have more than one middle name?
Middle names is pretty popular in countries without family names, though they just stack 3 given names for their kids
Is it true that the earlier a culture had adopted the use of surnames the smaller the pool of different surnames there are in a population? For example Japan only adopted the use of surnames for the peasantry during the Meji Restoration and all the peasants got to choose whatever the frick they wanted to be their surname when they registered their name so Japananese surnames are pretty unique.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galton%E2%80%93Watson_process
Yeah, there's a name for it. That's why China and Korea have much smaller pool of family name compared to Japan. They adopted surnames when their population were much smaller (This is especially true for Korea) and many of smaller family names went extinct as centuries passed by
I had no idea there was a name for the process. Thanks anon.
So it has a name. Probably explains the clusterfrick of old Roman patrician names too.
> there are currently only about 3,100 surnames in use in China, compared with close to 12,000 recorded in the past
>19 surnames are used by around half of the Han Chinese people, while 100 surnames are used by around 87% of the population.
Why don't people just invent new surnames? If I were the government I would make it a rule that orphans must be given a unique surname. Imagine having a surname which means "wolf", "fang" or "tyrant"
people are too proud of their last names. also its basically impossible in some countries.
Strong concept of ancestor worship and respect there, it's spitting on your ancestors to not carry on their name.
Not only that it would probably sound fricking ridiculous, like an enhanced version of people who name their kid Khaleesi.
Imagine an American who named themselves Khaleesi Motorcycle. It would sound fricking ridiculous just based on cultural history and norms.
could spain and portugal's custom come from the basque people? the basques are neolithic europeans and were more "matriarchal" than the indo-europeans.
>were more "matriarchal" than the indo-europeans
Is there any evidence for this besides an outdated book from the 1960s by Maria Gimbutas?
Do Basques even have surnames before the Spaniards? If I had to take a guess the Spaniards adopted the dual surnames during or after reconquiesta to help sift which ones were Moor rapebabies or not.
>Hungary
Arabs also have a tribe's name or birth's place as part of surname.
Mohamed Mohamed Muhammad Muhammad
Historically insular Southeast Asians and Central Asians did not use family names.
>SEAnigs be like: Hi I'm Tim.
They have multiple given names. Imagine someone named Michael Eric Peter in English
>Historically insular Southeast Asians and Central Asians did not use family names.
The story of how most Filipinos got their surnames is hilarious.
>Like with the rest of Island SEAsians, Precolonial Filipino natives did not have a concept of family names.
>At the very most they'll identify with the names of their mothers & fathers villages & geographic locale because people in premodern Philippine localities were closely nit by kinship & familial bonds.
>This continues even in the first 200 years of Spanish rule. Among the Philippines Asian inhabitants only Mestizos (mixed Race Filipinos) & Chinese had surnames.
>1843.
>The Spanish Captain-General of the Philippines- Gov. Narciso Claveria y Zaldua- wants to reform the taxation system into a per-capita basis.
>Problem: the majority native Filipinos have the same fricking names. Making per-capita taxation fricked.
>Solution: order them to have surnames.
>In 1848 the Spanish colonial capital of Manila collates and publishes copies of a massive catalogue of Spanish & Filipino names called "Catalogo Alfabetico de Appelidos" (Alphabetic Catalogue of Surnames).
>1849
>Governor Claveria orders copies of the Catalogue to be disseminated in all provinces of the Philippines and orders every Filipino Native to choose a surname from the book.
>Problem: travel in pre-industrial Philippines was difficult for most Filipino natives- who were often peasants tied to the land. Many could not make the journey to provincial capitals.
>Solution: Provincial governments tore pages/sections of their copy of the Catalogue and disseminated it into municipalities and villages.
>Since the Catalogue was alphabetic, entire native populations of many towns and villages ended up having surnames with the same first letter.
gigabased
love this story
Holy shit.
Most of you may not know this, but the Eastern name - surname order is quite widespread throughout ex-Yugoslavia as well as Austria due to the influence of Hungarian. You will not find that order in legal documents, but its use is widespread in signatures, on doorbells and in other less formal forms of writing, and is even considered prestigious.
Isn’t switching relatively common in all languages?
Here in France surname+name is most common when talked but name+surname is the formal way of writing it, and sometime saying it in either very formal or administrative context
>all of India
>one naming system
BAKA. Even I'm aware that the Tamils use "Father's name + Given name" for their naming scheme. That's why they shorten their "first names" to initials when writing it out
My surname has the word ‘the’ before it and moronic whitoids keep putting a hyphen between it and the surname.
Completely unrelated, but why are the Aral "Sea" and Lake Baikal marked on these maps, but not other similar sized bodies of water?
Who knows? Maybe because those two are iconic?