The Universe was created from nothing. You can't prove it wasn't.
>bUt ThAtS nOt LoGicAL!
"Nothing" does not have logic, it's nothing. And without logic, illogical things can happen, such as a Universe exploding from nothing.
No God required.
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Used to be you could just have your own existential crisis and not bother everyone else about it.
Mad you can't defeat this position and your magic sky carpenter is debunked.
Not even religious, just don't like cringe tbh
Congratulations on managing not to say the word israelite, I know that must have been difficult for you
maybe people wouldn't have such "crises" if they weren't lied to their whole lives...
correct. and that's a pretty picture.
>and that's a pretty picture.
Actually it's completely random, empty and meaningless. Be consistent.
and that's the best part of it. i don't see any fairies in it, just pretty stars.
euphoric
yes.
Yes.
The theist position is there was a magic wizard sitting in the void for eternity smelling his own farts until he decided to make the universe for no reason.
>
>
It always goes back to race with you people
OP... I'm afraid you're mistaking a theist strawman (see ) as an opinion educated atheists have, however
is what an atheist that did his homework would acknowledge.
The Universe was compacted into a smaller area where physics as we know it breaks down. That's the state of "nothingness" I'm talking about. In that state all positive and negative energy cancels itself out, and there are no physical laws, so anything can happen. You think I'm moronic, but I'm 1000x smarter than everyone in this thread combined.
That's not nothingness tho?
The absence of energy, matter and spacetime is nothingness.
Yes and there is no such thing anywhere
Vacuum isn't "nothing"
every knee shall bow
every knee shall bow
every knee shall bow
>"Nothing" does not have logic, it's nothing.
That's a logical statement. So by your own definition, it can't apply to nothing. Which means you have defeated yourself.
Consider instead that your idea of "nothing" is insufficent.
Fedora metaphysics do not exist.
Nothing is real.
Nothing can have logic and not have logic, it can be all things and no things. Logic emerges from nothingness.
>Nothing can have logic and not have logic
That is not congruent.
Nothing is part of reality, and reality is logical. Logic is part of reality, so it's part of emptiness or nothingness too.
That's why you have negation in logic, just one example.
>it can be all things and no things
If nothing is all things, then it's "everything". Is everything nothing? I can't foresee you coming up with a good argument for that.
"something" doesn't come from "nothing"
something and nothing contain one another necessarily, they are codependent by definition
these two things must exist simultaneously, and in a way in which they mutually imply the other
both something and nothing are created
there was never any "nothing" that existed before "something"
they both came into existence at the same time, when God creates a cup he creates the cup and the emptiness within it by the very nature of it's form
God doesn't exist. All this is happen without a God and without awareness.
>God doesn't exist.
Proof?
>inb4 there is absolutely no sound argument that God does not exist, it has literally never been formulated because it's impossible
If God real, why bad thing happen?
Consciousness is not possible without space-time
If God is not sentient then he doesn't qualify as a creator
>Consciousness is not possible without space-time
"space-time" is a mental concept that is convienient for us to explain the things immediately perceptable to us, not a sufficient explanation of the things in themselves
in reality, consicousness absolutely permeates what we call space-time
since it is clearly a part of reality, and God is real, we can say that the ultimate souce of consiousness is God
in the thought of Berkeley, reality is contained within the mind of God
You didn't even prove "God" is real first. You just started with that false premise and built your argument from there. Absolute idiot.
I'm not the idiot here.
Using process of elimination I have deduced that since there is no valid argument that God does not exist, and that either God exists or God does not exist, then one of the internally valid arguments that God exists actually does prove God exists.
Therefore God is real.
The argument for God not existing is that the universe is not intelligently designed. It's filled with trillions of empty useless galaxies and planets and black holes and radiation. It's the stupidest fricking thing a God could make. And all the creatures on earth just and shit and kill each other, and most humans are low IQ apoids. It's clear that it's just a cosmic accident. You're a fricking worthless ape moron.
>the universe is not intelligently designed
Proofs?
None. Only more circular reasoning
>trillions of empty useless galaxies and planets
wow, isn't that kind of arrogant of you to assume you are the only lifeform capable of consciousness?
>It's the stupidest fricking thing a God could make.
>You're a fricking worthless ape moron.
That's your opinion of reality, and an angery opinion at that. Not the truth.
The proof is that the universe and life is not intelligently designed. It's a random clusterfrick mess with no purpose. How are you so blind and so moronic you can't see the truth?
>The proof is that the universe and life is not intelligently designed.
>It's a random clusterfrick mess with no purpose.
How do you reconcile this with the fact that clearly designed things like the internet we have this conversation through is objectively real.
It's absolutely self evident that design is part of reality, because if it weren't we wouldn't be capable of designing things in the first place.
You feel the need to insist that I'm stupid, because really you're the one who is mentally incapable.
>God exists because humans made the Internet from the pieces of the universe they could hobble together
Absolutely moronic.
When ancient Australopithecus were clacking rocks together and making mud huts, did that also prove God's masterful design?
Think about maths as an example. Math exists without us, it is separate from us. It is a language. It explains how the universe works. The universe has a language baked in and it is one we understand. So in everything there is a logical language. That seems quite profound. That to me me is some proof of intelligent design. I'm an agnostic, for now, but the more I think deeply, the more religious I become.
>math exists without us
No it doesn't
>it is language
Which doesn't exist without someone to comprehend it
>it explains how the universe works
No it doesn't
It establishes forms and numbers and the logic built around those.
Forms and numbers are derived from our perception of the world, not its actual reality.
Mathematics and Geometry are abstractions of the real, they are useful tools to get approximations we can work with but in no way give us the precise measurement of anything. Units and shapes are not real beyond our head and senses.
Really. So 2x2=4 ceases to exists without a mind to comprehend it?
Are you saying the laws of physics ceases to exist without humans observing it? That's quite the claim. Are science and maths a delusion in your opinion?
*2+2
>no valid argument
People ITT gave you some, you are simply too biased to accept them.
You base your argumentation on lie, special pleading and wishful thinking.
No, they haven't.
Go frick yourself.
By space time I mean length and motion.
>conscious premeates those
No it doesn't, it's confined(in the brain) and the product of a process(cognition).
>length and motion
you're just kicking the can down the road
both "length" and "motion" are mental categories we use to describe our perceptual field
our perceptual field is the thing we call "reality"
>it's confined(in the brain) and the product of a process(cognition)
ridiculous
consciousness is clearly not "confined" within as single brain
there are many brains, and moreover you cannot prove that consciousness is a product of neural activity rather than a field that we are capable of accessing like a radio reciever
would you say that radio waves are the product of the transmitters and recievers we have constructed for that purpose, or would you say they are a natural part of reality that we just tap into
> /x/ babbles
Can't say there is much to argue here, you reject reality(i.e. physical world) itself passing it as nothing but an illusion. Meanwhile I'm observant of it.
All observation points to consciousness being a byproduct of cognition within the brain. You're adding (or rather are attempting to add) pointless mysticism to pass your fringe hypothesis as the only one.
>reality(i.e. physical world)
materialism
see
materialism is an ideology, and I am free to reject ideology
>ideology
Althusserian boogeyman
Is the language of mathematics confined to our brains?
The universe, .0123456789... / 0 = undefined. Hindu-Islamic Numerals
Laguage is a set of symbols and sounds coding words and phrases associated with concepts and ideas.
It exists through our ability to code and decode its meaning, once no one is able to anymore it might as well be gibberish and scribbles.
The logic of forms and numbers is derived from our perception and abstraction of the real. Once we're gone, it will be gone till something with a similar perception and ability to abstract makes it again.
>they still exist in the world of idea!!! Platon!!!
There is no such thing, possibilities don't need to be stored somewhere; they happen when they do or don't.
I simply don't believe that once something is not being perceived by a human brain it ceases to exist. Maybe you can delve a little deeper.
That's not what I'm saying.
Something concrete like rocks and trees don't disappear when no one looks at them.
But abstractions need to be constantly conceived to exist within those that conceive them. Software needs hardware.
Well I guess we differ fundamentally on what is 'real'. A 'rock' is a concept. A 'tree' is an abstraction. 'Real' itself is a concept. You see you can follow that all the way down to "nothing is real".
By rock and tree I mean the physical matter arrangments we identity as rock & tree, not the idea or concept of rocks and trees "rock-ness" "tree-ness".
The physical is concrete while abstractions are not, as derivations of the physical.
Evidence of the tree can be found in the soil it became.
"The physical matter arrangements we identify as a rock" that's IS a conceptual idea though.
The physical is certainly not concrete. A rock for example can be viewed as an infinite amount of things, and has infinite forms amd materuals it can physically take, but its the concept of what a rock is that is more real than the physical rock itself.
You can't reconstruct that exact tree from the left over molecules which change and take new forms. Would you be able to gather the evidence for that tree after the earth ceases to exist in 50 billion years? Was it still a real thing after the heat death of the universe?
Like, are you saying that something can only be real if you can see it with your eyes? Because that is a huge rabbit hole, right? If the tree dies and turns into soil, was the tree real when it was a tree? Or was it not real because it turned into a concept of what it once was that can't now be experienced in the objective world?
In fact you could argue that the only thing that is really real is conception and abstraction.
If the idea that the tree was real even though it had died and physically doesn't exist, does that mean that it is eternal?
Either everything is real or nothing is real.
Even a falsehood is something, its something real.
Explain why a tree is real without using concepts, abstraction, or even language for that matter.
Sorry, just spitballing ideas coming out of my brain.
If you follow your logic down to its core, then nothing exists outside of human brains.
>God doesn't exist.
Yes, keep believing this. Harden your heart. I am the devil in your ear. Keep saying in your heart that there is no God, up until the day he casts you down into hell. There is no greater joy the Lord could give me than to see people like you made into the playthings of demons, the feast of maggots, and the footstool of saints.
Do not blot out his sin, Lord. Damn him to Hell.
Is this how you fear monger little children into believing so you can molest them at church? Christians run pedo rings and are child molesters, that is a fact.
>Is this how you fear monger little children into believing so you can molest them at church?
Nah, business is dwindling, I'm afraid. They're getting snatched up by all the trannies and drag queens reading newfangled fairy tales about how Jack wanted to sodomize his friend John (and how this is totally a good thing!) in the midst of your own schools. How could we compete with that?
You will burn in Hell. That is a fact. It's not a question of 'if,' but 'when'. Do not repent, I beg of you.
Frick your homosexual circumcised israelitegod. There are entire encyclopedia articles written on your religion's child molestation cases. Atheism has already defeated you and your fake god (little g) and you will not be going to heaven when you die, you will get no reward.
>There are entire encyclopedia articles written on your religion's child molestation cases
And yet, statistically, secular schools have higher rates of child molestations than all of Christendom in its entirety. Funny that! Turns out that godless moral relativists like yourself are far more eager to mount kids when there's no threat of hellfire to keep you scruffy-necked chucklefricks in check.
>Atheism has already defeated you and your fake god (little g) and you will not be going to heaven when you die, you will get no reward.
Don't expect me to rebuke you. I WANT you to believe this. Until the end. How great will your reckoning be! I salivate at your condemnation, heathen. I salivate.
Frick you and your israelite religion you disgusting piece of shit. You Christians molest kids and your god's "holy" men take part and cover it up.
>B-B-BUT PUBLIC SCHOOLS DO IT TOO
Your religion and god are a fraud and nothing but a front for money racketeering and pedo rings.
See, I expect you to believe this. Atheists simply do not possess the rigour of thought that theists do. You can only think of impure things because you yourself are impure, and like begets like. I pray that the veil isn't lifted from your eyes, and your damnation is sealed. In fact, I'll make it easier for you:
>31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Will you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit right now and seal your fate? I'm serious. I want nothing more than your eternal death.
The Holy Ghost is God, and, The Holy Spirit is Satan.
Wonderful. I know you think that this is all just a fairy tale, but it was really important to me that you do that.
IN the beginning was the Devil, and the
Devil was with God, and the Devil was
God, the Same was in the beginning
with God. All Things were made by
him; and without him was not any
thing made that was made. G-D
God-Devil
في البداية كان الشيطان و
كان إبليس مع الله ، وكان إبليس
الله ، نفس الشيء كان في البداية
مع الله. كل الأشياء صنعت بواسطة
له؛ وبدونه لم يكن هناك أي
الشيء الذي تم صنعه. G-D
الله الشيطان
Another satisfied customer.
Make sure to cook this butthole real nice once he ends up in Hell, yeah? Like a well-done steak. Fricker deserves it.
>The Holy Ghost is God, and, The Holy Spirit is Satan.
Christians should STOP worshipping Lucifer!
Why is this sin worse than Hitler?
Why do you drink onions?
I don't. Why do you eat a dick every Sunday?
What's wrong with eating dicks, are you a homophobic bigot?
Where do you think you are? This isn't chrisTumblr.
The Science says being a homosexual and spreading AIDS is beautiful, christcuck
>everyone who doesn't eat Jesus's dick is le woke
>business is dwindling
So you admit it
Woah you mean evil and corruption exists? No way.
sadist god, sadist believers. at least you're consistent.
anyways lets kill babies
Jew
Atheism is a israeli golem.
i don't want to kill babies, so i don't. but your god would.
>the universe was created from nothing
That's not what science says, it's your claim. We simply observe the universe was in a condensed state that's all.
How cute. A sub-creature.
All praise to the Creator, thanks for Posting!
Yo, no problem Anonymous, yo.
Christians worship Satan.
It's pretty obvious that the universe was never "created" and has simply always existed. It just "is"
>big bang
Explains how the universe changed, not how it was "created"
I created y'all to laugh at. Hahaha
>that's le heckin infinte regression it's not heckin rational!!! Where is le uncaused cause??? Le heckin universarino is too complex, who wrote da Laws of Physics??? This is heckin bigotry toward the law of conservation of energy! YOU NEED DA CREATOR
Infinite regress is impossible tho
>"Nothing" does not have logic, it's nothing. And without logic, illogical things can happen, such as a Universe exploding from nothing.
this is somehow even more moronic than christians saying that jesus is le pure logic or whatever
You just don't like it because it sounds absurd and ridiculous, but it's still true.
>it's nothing. And without logic, illogical things can happen, such as a Universe exploding from nothing.
Damn atheism has really sinked this low huh
Theist:
>A fully formed thinking God just always existed and he made the universe (out if nothing)
See how your explanation is just the Atheist one + magic invisible sky wizard imaginary friend for no reason other than to comfort yourself?
>out of nothing
That's not what religious people think though. God is eternal, there was never "nothing", he was always there. There was always something. Absolute and total nothingness turning into something 'magically' vs. an eternal force always existing outside the realm of time space, is conceptually more logical.
Change "God" with "matter & energy"
That makes no sense to me. The scientific explanation for the creation of the universe says that there was no "matter & energy" before the creation, that there was literally nothing.
No it doesn't. This is only done in mathematical guesses at best using pure mathematical singularity, not representative of anything real and concrete at all.
Sure, I agree. That is what is put forward by virtually all scientists though.
Any number, including 0, over nothing, 0, is undefined. Therefore we know God exists.
1 / 0 = undefined
Sorry I'm a bit of a brainlet, can you explain? Maybe my own conception would be '0' is representative of god?
The universe of mathematics over zero is undefined. Logic above.
God is a Rock
stone
cold
moron
Prove it wrong. (You can't)
Prove your God exists. (You can't)
FROM WHERE DO THESE ATHEISTIC AVTOMATA COME?
INDIANS?
Nothing divided by Nothing equals undefined.
Proof: 0 / 0 = undefined.
functions are real, we use them in math because it helps us describe reality
because real things have natural functions, by design
Aristotle called this "telos"
function is not random by definition
it isn't matter either, or anything so completely dense and inert
1
Either God is real, or God is not real.
2
It is impossible to prove that God is not real.
3
It follows naturally from 1 and 2 that it must be possible to prove God is real.
Ergo, God is real.
>homie never heard of the teapot
even knowing this is shitbait, i can't even pretend to entertain the idea that Big Bang and it's aspects are real
Zero can’t be quantified
Sqrt of universe .0123456789... = every one.
.1111111111...
>Gods are on the mountain that we can't climb that's why we can't see them!
>Well, uh... actually, God resides in the temple that only the priests are allowed to enter that's why we can't see him!
>Well, uh... actually, God is in the sky that we can't fly up to that's why we can't see him!
>Well, uh... actually, God is hiding being the cosmological beginning of the universe and the fabric of reality itself that's why we can't see him!
atheist here. dark energy and dark matter are invisible so they don't exist.
cosmologists and astrophysicists are moronic trannies.
Neptune was invisible for a long time, so it didn't exist until discovered and Newton's theory of gravitation was completely and wholly incorrect and worthless in the meantime?
Contrary to your God, scientist can concede that dark matter's a convenience and figment of imagination and not an thing of actuality, until proven otherwise. And there are attempts to falsify it experimentally. When have theists ever attempted that?
>Contrary to your God
>"atheist here"
Why feel addressed then?
Why does this horribly shitty bait thread have over a hundred replies and why is it on page 1?
Prolly 'cause IQfy is a Shithole