GTK gets worse with every new version, so this is no surprise. I'm already avoiding it as much as possible. Hopefully, I'll have found replacements for all GTK programs by the time this is effectively forced on me.
this is the gnome developer who locked the thread to keep sane discussion out:
https://twitter.com/ebassi/photo
gay homosexual; tweets about how kink needs to be at "pride"; retweets all sorts of fedora aetheism nonsense... This is the type of person making decisions for GTK/GNOME
Don't use GTK, people. It's shit anyway and QT is superior in basically every single way. These types of people get off on forcing their moronic ideas like gayland on everyone
>have fun compiling GTK3 in the future and patching it once it can't be compiler anymore
i do not have to, people do it for me
also i can always install gcc7 again in the future and use it
>have fun compiling GTK3 in the future and patching it once it can't be compiler anymore.
You can still compile GTK2 on a modern system without problem. I'm not sure what you think the problem is.
I've said it before, but the reason Wayland will win is not because desktop linux users like, but because linux devs like it. Even if 100% of no-dev desktop linux users stay on X11, development will move to Wayland only and X11 will be abandonware.
>Here we are nearly 14 years later into this mess and Wayland is still leagues behind Xorg in several different ways
Misquoting is not a point.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>But is a better solution overall
note he never claims wayland is flat out worse, just worse in specific areas. Wayland was always going to be worse in many areas and always going to be shit. Did linux-gays really think they'd have a well architected desktop environment? If you want that use Mac OS or Windows.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What's broken in both except for security in X11? Screen sharing is working in Wayland now and multi-display works on both.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What's broken in both except for security in X11? Screen sharing is working in Wayland now and multi-display works on both.
>Wayland's client API is gimped. >Wayland's lack of feature parity with Xorg cripples it. >Wayland's render loop design is ridiculous. >Wayland's Mesa implementations are leagues behind Xorg's. >Wayland itself has bad core decisions.
>Was it really worth it? >Xorg is by no means perfect, but it has one big thing going in its favor: it works
>>"better solution overall"
Still misquoting. You claimed devs like it, reality is they don't.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Like it more than X. That's why GTK is dropping X support altogether already.
is shit, but is better than X11
The article comes to literally the opposite conclusion.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The article comes to literally the opposite conclusion.
oh it did? Please quote me where it says that. That should be a simple task for you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Its pretty much implied in the whole article that outside of the most basic b***h demonstrator app, Wayland is a pain the ass.
But you morons will never accept defeat until a "figure of authority" aka a paid corpo shill will exactly say, word for word "A is better than B".
Kys
2 years ago
Anonymous
>i.. i can't quote it.. but you can *feel* he means it all over the article
I thought you said it was his conclusion, but now it's something hes just vaguely impling? Holy shit, that's some rocket grade copium right there.
>But you morons will never accept defeat until a "figure of authority" aka a paid corpo shill will exactly say, word for word "A is better than B".
You were the moron who claimed he said something that he clearly didn't lmao.
2 years ago
Anonymous
fricking cope, the conclusion is, well, a conclusion of the whole article. That's on you if you don't have basic English comprehension. Then again I'm not the same anon as two replies ago.
And again you're deflecting until someone outright says that A is worse than B.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>And again you're deflecting until someone outright says that A is worse than B.
You were the moron who claimed he said X better than Wayland, not me. Holy shit.
Imagine claiming something, then immediately accusing someone else of saying the exact same thing. Why are all X11 gays schizos?
2 years ago
Anonymous
fricking read the conclusion if you want a quote or something holy shit. its just 2 fricking paragraphs
2 years ago
Anonymous
I did. That's why I pointed out he doesn't say anything that you claimed. Not sure what you think anyone would gain by me quoting something we both read. The point was to humiliate you demonstrating you can't find where he said what you claim, and that's done to my satisfaction now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
so we're back to >But you morons will never accept defeat until a "figure of authority" aka a paid corpo shill will exactly say, word for word "A is better than B".
as expected from wayland shills.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Troll.
2 years ago
Anonymous
why do people do this? not replying in such a way that anyone is going to see it? are anons really this stupid? the whole reason for replying is so that someone sees it. by not replying properly you're wasting your OWN time. so what's the point of being this homosexual?
x11 is the best thing about the linux desktop. gayland is garbage and everyone responsible for it should be killed
2 years ago
Anonymous
>everyone responsible for it should be killed
so the x11 devs? you do understand it's 99% overlap? the x11 devs determined it was too shit to continue and went with wayland instead
2 years ago
Anonymous
>so the x11 devs? you do understand it's 99% overlap?
It's not.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yes it is, you're just not aware because you're moronic and don't understand anything about display servers and protocols beyond surface level IQfy memes
https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/30/x_server_lead_maintainer_declares/
https://ajaxnwnk.blogspot.com/2020/10/on-abandoning-x-server.html
2 years ago
Anonymous
Adam Jackson has done no significant work on wayland. Also that blogpost is both, not relevant to your assertion, and also is only going to look more and more stupid as time goes on.
>https://dudemanguy.github.io/blog/posts/2022-06-10-wayland-xorg/wayland-xorg.html >The big and obvious mistake to point out is fractional scaling. For some reason unknown to me, the Wayland protocol only supports integer scale values. To be frank, this is asinine and everyone pays the price for it. As higher resolution displays became common, users naturally wanted to scale the display to fractional values (1.5 and so on). Because telling users "you can't do this" to something as basic as this was a non-starter, all compositors implement a hack with this. They tell clients to scale up to the next integer and then the compositor downscales it to the correct one.
Is he joking? Does he actually not realise that's how it's meant to work? What he's describing is what Mac OS and iOS both do, which is way better than Windows behaviour. Why bother writing a massive blog post of design decisions that you don't even understand the basis of?
These are they only kinds of people complaining about Wayland. People who understand X11 and Wayland enough to contribute to the desktop environments themselves understand Wayland is superior.
>The only people that "like" Wayland are X11 and Wayland devs
yes >Actual app developers hate Wayland
yes, morons like: [...]
precisely my point. These people will cry and moan but never contribute to a better solution because they have a poor grasp on the basic concepts, let alone enough smarts to lead a better solution.
The wayland developers are moving towards the Windows model by working on a fractional scale extension because they realized that the mac behavior was a moronic mistake. A big name company doing something stupid is not justification for Wayland also doing something stupid.
No, wayland is a huge pain. I have software written for x11 and I use embedding. That's only 1 line in x11. In wayland that's 50 000 lines of code (literally minimum) to do the exact same thing. You can write a friggin window manager in x11 in only 20 lines of code.
This anon knows.
X11 is an ancient pile of cruft, but if you avoid the awful legacy bindings it's deceptively easy to develop for. Wayland is so restrictive and underdesigned that doing anything nontrivial is pain.
Window embedding is a particularly enlightening example. I don't know why wayland devs seem to hate this so much. All you would have to do is extend xdg-foreign a little bit more, but the gitlab issue on that got ridiculous and then they locked it.
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/74
> linux devs like it.
Core kernel developers are not involved in GUI developement.
The only people that "like" Wayland are full time RedHat/IBM/Collabora employees.
Actual app developers hate Wayland. E.g. One "XGetImage()" call translates to at least 500+ lines of code in Wayland, and then it's not guaranteed to work in the future due to lack of standardized interfaces.
>The only people that "like" Wayland are X11 and Wayland devs
yes >Actual app developers hate Wayland
yes, morons like:
>https://dudemanguy.github.io/blog/posts/2022-06-10-wayland-xorg/wayland-xorg.html >The big and obvious mistake to point out is fractional scaling. For some reason unknown to me, the Wayland protocol only supports integer scale values. To be frank, this is asinine and everyone pays the price for it. As higher resolution displays became common, users naturally wanted to scale the display to fractional values (1.5 and so on). Because telling users "you can't do this" to something as basic as this was a non-starter, all compositors implement a hack with this. They tell clients to scale up to the next integer and then the compositor downscales it to the correct one.
Is he joking? Does he actually not realise that's how it's meant to work? What he's describing is what Mac OS and iOS both do, which is way better than Windows behaviour. Why bother writing a massive blog post of design decisions that you don't even understand the basis of?
These are they only kinds of people complaining about Wayland. People who understand X11 and Wayland enough to contribute to the desktop environments themselves understand Wayland is superior.
precisely my point. These people will cry and moan but never contribute to a better solution because they have a poor grasp on the basic concepts, let alone enough smarts to lead a better solution.
you seriously believe there won't be a couple of people who the exact opposite of xwayland? i don't even think you need to because shit like sway can just run as X client so it'd be trivial
I guarantee you that neither GTK 5 nor 6, 7, 8 or 9 will drop X support. Most people are on X and will be for the next 50 years because it's simply better than the wayland garbage.
with GTK_USE_PORTAL gtk uses system portal dialog (so file picker) instead of native shit
portals are designed for shit like flatpak what does not have file access natively in all configurations
>X11 code sees little activity
because it just werks?
It's because RH Black folk forced it into maintenance mode. I hope someone forks it when it turns out how much of a turd Wayland really is.
Unless a competent company picks up the slack, probably system76, since they and canonical were unficking gnome turd for years.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I hope someone forks it
Not gonna happen. Xtards are too dumb to maintain even simple software and the original Xorg developers agree that Xorg is a piece of shit to maintain.
Some extensions do, then there's some basic GNOME applications like the settings panel. Which is a problem really because you have to download a theme for GTK3 applications to make them not look like you're using 2 different themes.
gtk has always had the ability to call any file picker via xdg portal thats what
you will NOT theme our apps with KDE filepicker thumbnails
is talking. There are two widgets gtk_filechooser_dialog and gtk_filechooser_native. The former is the shitty filepicker thats used as the standard while native is the one that is supposed to be used in the future but if the devs didn't use it though luck it will still look like shit. Gtk devs are moronic its the same effort could have just fixed the normal file dialog instead of writing a new one only for nautilus.
Or maybe, there should just be gtk_filechooser which automatically uses the xdg-desktop-portal one if available and falls back on the dogshit one. That would probably go against the GNOME vision™.
2 years ago
Anonymous
thats what the issue boils down to they are just malicious and would walk a mile over broken glass just to prove a point. Would be based if they weren't such massive corporate shills and defender of zog.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is exactly.what the "native" one is doing, but the mechanism is reversed: use the built-in one normally, and use the portal one if the application detects that it's in a Flatpak or if GTK_USE_PORTAL is set. And im fact most applications do already use the native file picker. It's just Chrome/Chromium and a few others that are still stuck in the past.
2 years ago
Anonymous
GNOME devs unironically want to be like Apple and have their own "identity", that's why they oppose any kind of customization.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Unlike apple the GNOME devs don't produce anything remotely usable.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They don't care, most of them use macOS as their daily OS anyways.
It's bad because some people have nvidia GPUs. Well actually it does have some issues, like drag and drop not working all that well between wayland and xwayland applications. It's not what I would say "there yet", but shit like finding input lag on Wayland made me look for gamescope, which is a great thing to exist. The biggest issue I find though is that it's only usable on GNOME, partially on Plasma, and Sway. I heard last year MATE was going to get Wayland support but I see it nowhere. It deals with my displays like xorg could never, so I kinda want it to work as good as possible.
That was joke anon. It's not better. At least not in it's current state. Most programs are very primitive and don't hold a candle against their GTK/Qt counterparts.
The good thing about it is, it's completely free as in freedom and runs on about everything. Linux, BSD, MacOS, Windows... You name it.
Doesn't matter. A lot of projects are moving away from GTK and towards Qt, efl, literally anything else. >GIMP (GNU (GNU's Not Unix) Image Manipulation Program) can not be compiled against a current version of GTK (GIMP (GNU (GNU's Not Unix) Image Manipulation Program) ToolKit)
Yes. And the goal is to improve it for the 10% of users who pay the bills. No the 90% who cry about everything from their moms basement.
2 years ago
Anonymous
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nothing wrong with what I said. X11 and Wayland is developed by companies, not charities.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Actually both are developed by non-profit organizations. So, you know, legal charities. Are all Wayland homosexuals sub-80 IQ morons, or just all the ones who evangelize on IQfy?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Actually both are developed by non-profit organizations. So, you know, legal charities.
A non-profit is not a "legal charity".
> Are all Wayland homosexuals sub-80 IQ morons
The fricking irony boys
2 years ago
Anonymous
>A non-profit is not a "legal charity".
that's true. A charity is supposed to make the world better, the opposite of Wayland.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>A non-profit is not a "legal charity".
Perhaps not in Angola or whatever other fricking third world shit hole you're from, but in the United States where both non-profits are registered, yup, sure as shit, they are tax-exempt non-profit organizations established for the public good. Both colloquially and legally defined as "charity". Go ahead and see if you can hire an ESL coach to translate section 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code into your native language and find out for yourself. >The fricking irony boys
Indeed, morons like you are typically unaware that they are morons to such a terminal extent that they actually believe that people who are not morons are actually the morons. It would be hilariously funny if it wasn't so fricking sad.
>boot into wayland distro >need to set a custom resolution >golly gee lets fire up xrandr and jus-- >xrandr: command not found >quickly look for wayland equivalent >it does not exist >wtf >have to edit kernel boot parameters to force an entire custom monitor edid just so I can set a custom resolution >doesn't work >ask for help >"Y-yikes... Why would you want a custom resolution?"
And this was my first and final experience with that piece of shit. If it becomes The standard I'm dropping all distros that implement it and sticking to abandonware ones or even outright going back to windows after more than a decade. I will tolerate bugs that frick me over, but I will not tolerate Black person "developers" who smugly want to frick me over.
Not linux-related but I was asked to set up a HTPC for a friend and his shitty cheap TV. The television had a fricked up EDID and Windows insisted on using 64Hz for all resolutions so i had to use Custom Resolution Utility to manually add display resolutions with correct refresh rates.
Most of IQfy however probably wants custom resolutions for supersampling or display overclocking.
Perhaps there are more usecases than I thought.
I'd still think that's in the large minority and that would come later
Not linux-related but I was asked to set up a HTPC for a friend and his shitty cheap TV. The television had a fricked up EDID and Windows insisted on using 64Hz for all resolutions so i had to use Custom Resolution Utility to manually add display resolutions with correct refresh rates.
Most of IQfy however probably wants custom resolutions for supersampling or display overclocking.
Perfect frame pacing for movies using MPV's video-sync=display-resample mode, without the visible FRC artifacts I get using VRR. And even if I had an 8bit or 10bit panel, this would still give lower jitter than VRR.
xrandr is to fricking powerfull, you can brick monitors by forcing a refresh rate.
Also taking a 8k tv and splitting it into 4 4k monitors is to powerfull, to much power with a simple command.
>brick
I tried this but my screen would just go blank and come back. How do I properly brick a display with xrandr? Is it impossible on modern monitors?
>Is it impossible on modern monitors
I don't think it's possible to break any LCD like that. It'll either sync to the signal and work or it will show nothing/maybe an error. On old CRTs you could actually damage them by going crazy with the timings.
The only risk I'm aware of is that you will be driving some of the components harder than they might be designed for, which means they will run slightly hotter. Maybe. I've never heard of a monitor overheating, so it's just hypothetical. Also, some monitors will apparently skip frames if driven out of spec, but I have never seen this personally. Most will happily do 75Hz (especially if they have some native 75Hz modes like 640x480@75Hz). One of mine does even 90Hz, but it's a shit panel with bad response time so it's blurry even at 60Hz. It does work, though.
If my monitor supported 75 Hz, the option would come up.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's likely wrong. And that's the problem.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wayland does not disallow 75Hz. Please show me where in the protocol does it say so.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No one said it does. The problem is it won't let you set a mode it doesn't know about.
You can't set 37.5Hz, or 55Hz either but I guarantee your monitor would work fine with those.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why the hell would I mismatch the framerate and refresh rate?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wow, you are moronic. Frame rate is tied to refresh rate unless you play a video.
>but I guarantee your monitor would work fine with those.
I’ve never in my life seen a monitor support these. Wtf are you talking about?
>I’ve never in my life seen a monitor support these. Wtf are you talking about?
Custom video modes.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Custom video modes.
Meaning what? A monitor will report to the OS what refresh rates it supports. I’m sure you can hack things to force it to accept whatever you send it, but rarely would I expect that to do anything good.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>A monitor will report to the OS what refresh rates it supports.
This is where you keep missing the point. Parent wants to set something that the monitor's EDID (which of course you cannot edit, it's in the monitor's output board) isn't sending something it should. Wayland lacks the ability to let the user set the timings themselves easily.
Wayland could have that feature, since all modelines are text anyway, but then Red Hat would probably b***h about it since a moron could end up with a chinesium display that glitches out and won't reset.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>but I guarantee your monitor would work fine with those.
I’ve never in my life seen a monitor support these. Wtf are you talking about?
2 years ago
Anonymous
2 years ago
Anonymous
How the frick is that related to custom video modes?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Who the frick is talking about custom video modes? Why the hell are you lowering your refresh rate when your monitor supports more?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Custom video modes.
Meaning what? A monitor will report to the OS what refresh rates it supports. I’m sure you can hack things to force it to accept whatever you send it, but rarely would I expect that to do anything good.
God are you dense. Usually you'd want this to force a HIGHER refresh rate than the monitor claims to support. CLAIMS to support. Because most of the time it can actually do more. I have two that do 75Hz just fine and one even goes up to 90Hz without issues. Sometimes monitors do stupid shit like advertise 64Hz like
Not linux-related but I was asked to set up a HTPC for a friend and his shitty cheap TV. The television had a fricked up EDID and Windows insisted on using 64Hz for all resolutions so i had to use Custom Resolution Utility to manually add display resolutions with correct refresh rates.
Most of IQfy however probably wants custom resolutions for supersampling or display overclocking.
said. You NEED custom video mode support to fix that shit. Otherwise you're fricked.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You NEED custom video mode support to fix that shit.
You do tell wayland the monitors supports whatever goody refresh rates you like. What are you actually asking for that you can’t do now?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Set a refresh rate not listed in pic related:
. Sway might be able to do it, but with GNOME you probably have to inject a customized EDID into the kernel and add some arcane kernel parameters.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Usually you'd want this to force a HIGHER refresh rate than the monitor claims to support. CLAIMS to support.
No, not really. I don't want to potentially damage the monitor by pretending to know about it more than the engineers who manufactured this.
If I wanted a 75Hz monitor, I'd buy one. Overclocking is unstable by definition.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And what about lower refresh rates like
Not linux-related but I was asked to set up a HTPC for a friend and his shitty cheap TV. The television had a fricked up EDID and Windows insisted on using 64Hz for all resolutions so i had to use Custom Resolution Utility to manually add display resolutions with correct refresh rates.
Most of IQfy however probably wants custom resolutions for supersampling or display overclocking.
?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>what about lower refresh rates
See
I don't want lower refresh rate btw. Why the hell would I pay for a 60Hz monitor when I want 30?
2 years ago
Anonymous
So frick
Not linux-related but I was asked to set up a HTPC for a friend and his shitty cheap TV. The television had a fricked up EDID and Windows insisted on using 64Hz for all resolutions so i had to use Custom Resolution Utility to manually add display resolutions with correct refresh rates.
Most of IQfy however probably wants custom resolutions for supersampling or display overclocking.
, right?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Shit TV
Not my problem.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Exactly. You're a selfish butthole and an idiot.
2 years ago
Anonymous
IDK about you but gimping mainstream dev focus on minority userbase problem is not feasible in real world, anon. If those that care about their cases so much they can contribute to the upstream.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I don't want lower refresh rate btw. Why the hell would I pay for a 60Hz monitor when I want 30?
i made a custom ~47.95i mode for outputting to an SDTV, down from 50Hz, so i could play ~23.98fps media at regular speed on it, because i can
2 years ago
Anonymous
i have a 50Hz mode set up on my "60Hz" monitor so i can play 25/50fps video as well as emulate pal games
2 years ago
Anonymous
contrarian Black person
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's so fricking moronic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>supporting mixed refresh rate is moronic
??
2 years ago
Anonymous
incorrect, monitors don't advertise every mode they could possibly do
my monitor only exposes 60Hz at 1080p, but i have a 72Hz mode set up for it, because technically it will sync up to 76Hz, which is advertised and even in the manual (so it's not even an overclock)
2 years ago
Anonymous
hmm, i don't see my 72/1.001Hz mode in there
meanwhile with xrandr;
1920x1080 60.00 + 71.93 72.00* 59.94 60.00 50.00
not the same person, but wayland seriously has no way to define custom modelines? that's pretty fatal, i wouldn't even be able to watch anime/movies/tv shows smoothly otherwise, since my monitor doesn't normally have any modes which are a multiple of 24(/1.001)
2 years ago
Anonymous
You can do it in sway. I don't know about any other compositors. But yeah, it would be a compositor-specific thing in any case which is one of the most annoying things about wayland.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>i don't see my 72/1.001Hz mode in there
Because my monitor doesn't support it.
incorrect, monitors don't advertise every mode they could possibly do
my monitor only exposes 60Hz at 1080p, but i have a 72Hz mode set up for it, because technically it will sync up to 76Hz, which is advertised and even in the manual (so it's not even an overclock)
See
>Usually you'd want this to force a HIGHER refresh rate than the monitor claims to support. CLAIMS to support.
No, not really. I don't want to potentially damage the monitor by pretending to know about it more than the engineers who manufactured this.
If I wanted a 75Hz monitor, I'd buy one. Overclocking is unstable by definition.
>I don't want lower refresh rate btw. Why the hell would I pay for a 60Hz monitor when I want 30?
i made a custom ~47.95i mode for outputting to an SDTV, down from 50Hz, so i could play ~23.98fps media at regular speed on it, because i can
>SDTV
i have a 50Hz mode set up on my "60Hz" monitor so i can play 25/50fps video as well as emulate pal games
>pal games
None of my problem.
2 years ago
Anonymous
my 72Hz mode is NOT an overclock, every parameter is within spec
the modes advertised by the monitors' EDID are simply presets, and do not represent the entire capability of the monitor
2 years ago
Anonymous
my 72Hz mode is NOT an overclock, every parameter is within spec
the modes advertised by the monitors' EDID are simply presets, and do not represent the entire capability of the monitor
also, if you're wondering why then it doesn't advertise 72Hz normally, it's because that's not part of any standard, it's useful to me because it is a multiple of 24, so most video can be played back more smoothly using this, it also gives me something higher than 60 so it's good for playing games at a higher framerate
X11 is a pile of garabge, and the bigger steps we take towards moving to wayland the more addoption we'll get and the better it will get. I'm all for it.
> X11 is a pile of garabge
X11 was the lowest common denominator that the many UNIX vendors of the 80s could agree upon. For what it is it is actually pretty good.
Could I write something better? YES!
Could I write something better while preserving backwards compatibility? NO!
Could I write something worse without preserving backwards compatibility? I couldn't but Waylanders managed to pull it off!
Innovation is bad for interoperability, pretty much by definition. The GUI isn't not some innovative whizzbang feature in any Operating System, any more than the shell interface is.
It was figured out in the 80s and 90s, and now we shouldn't frick with it.
>When Time Comes For GTK5
So, about a decade if past GTK releases are any indicator >It Might Be Wayland-Only On Linux
*Might* be Wayland-only *on Linux*. This according to Michael fricking Larabel, the most clickbait-happy moron in the Linux community. Who based it on an issue opened by a Red Hat employee *suggesting* that the GTK devs *consider* dropping the X11 backend.
Really desperate for some (you)s today, huh Jay? What's the matter, mommy take away your sparklers for July 4th?
>https://dudemanguy.github.io/blog/posts/2022-06-10-wayland-xorg/wayland-xorg.html >The big and obvious mistake to point out is fractional scaling. For some reason unknown to me, the Wayland protocol only supports integer scale values. To be frank, this is asinine and everyone pays the price for it. As higher resolution displays became common, users naturally wanted to scale the display to fractional values (1.5 and so on). Because telling users "you can't do this" to something as basic as this was a non-starter, all compositors implement a hack with this. They tell clients to scale up to the next integer and then the compositor downscales it to the correct one.
Is he joking? Does he actually not realise that's how it's meant to work? What he's describing is what Mac OS and iOS both do, which is way better than Windows behaviour. Why bother writing a massive blog post of design decisions that you don't even understand the basis of?
These are they only kinds of people complaining about Wayland. People who understand X11 and Wayland enough to contribute to the desktop environments themselves understand Wayland is superior.
The lead dev of libinput refuses to implement chiral/circular scrolling. He implemented this exact feature for X11 on the old synaptic driver. Until this is done I am stuck with X11 because my Panasonic Let's Note has a circular trackpad designed to scroll by running your finger along the edges.
Notice how there is or nor will ever be a gtk-X11 fork despite the loud circlejerk about gtk dropping a deprecated platform.
Curious. Do these people know anything about programming at all? Or all they can do is write fizzbuzz in vim and post it in desktop threads.
They are slowly killing it by introducing terrible standards (Wayland, systemd) and "incentivizing" developers to adopt them
Sure, Linux is free software and anyone can work on it and make it better but there will soon be nobody interested in making any major efforts to fix the garbage red hat is leaving behind
That is unfortunately the major problem with freetardware
>Rule #1 when an issue gets linked on reddit or the green site: lock it down. Don't waste time with the commentariat, it's entirely inconsequential, and it avoids spam in the maintainers mail
https://twitter.com/ebassi/status/1543632421425451012?cxt=HHwWiMC47cfgiuwqAAAA
Frick this shit, i reinstalled windows anyways.
Feels like theyre burning the whole thing down since steam made linux a viable alternative. Fricking buttholes.
Well, I tried Windows 11 and it's a piece of wank.
How come there's a fricking delay in rendering taskbar menus on 8 core processor. What is this incompetent bullshit?
>I hope someone forks it
Not gonna happen. Xtards are too dumb to maintain even simple software and the original Xorg developers agree that Xorg is a piece of shit to maintain.
Then I hope that a competent company will fix remaining issues. Guess I'll stay on X for another decade. Not like I'm missing out. It just works࿕
Keep seething you moronic homosexuals, if everyone was listening to you we'd still be living in the stone age. You are moronic enough to jerk off to absolute atrocity that 90's design of Microsoft was.
Yes, Wayland is trash, but xorg is fricking dead, we need to move on from it one way or another. If you're so smart, why don't you try to do this?
Fricking inceloid loser good for nothing homosexuals, complaining is all you know
i refuse to listen to ui opinions from someone who things windows 95's ui was atrocious
gnome 3 will never be as coherent and nice to use as windows 95
Is there anything worse than a pseud armchair UI specialist trying to say THAT outdated obsolete pile of trash is acceptable? Grow the frick up, you have an unhygienic obsession with retrohippie tech.
I like trashing ms, but win 9x UI is the best desktop ui ever
Everything is a downhill since then
I blame morons having access to computers, web apps, and smart phones
i refuse to listen to ui opinions from someone who things windows 95's ui was atrocious
gnome 3 will never be as coherent and nice to use as windows 95
Recently I tried to run .exe from Nautilus. Turns out foot fungus connoisseurs removed option to launch executables from file manager for "muh security".
>Recently I tried to run .exe from Nautilus. Turns out foot fungus connoisseurs removed option to launch executables from file manager for "muh security".
Why are you lying?
>install wine >no option to run wine in file manager
>Recently I tried to run .exe from Nautilus >.exe >nautilus
??
Are you using nautilus on Windows or what?
Are you pretending to be moronic? Linux can run windows programs since forever.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>install wine >garbage distro doesn't install application handlers for .exe >no option to run wine in file manager >blame file manager
2 years ago
Anonymous
i've never heard of a file manager that can't run executables
2 years ago
Anonymous
Black personmonkey are you braindead? .exe isn't an executable to Linux, it's just a regular file like any other. A .jpg is opened with GIMP, a .mp3 is opened with your music player, a .exe is opened with Wine. Same shit every time. For that to work, there needs to be an association. GIMP tells the system that it can open .jpgs, your music player tells the system that it can open .mp3s. If Wine didn't tell the system it can open .exes, that means your distro's moronic devs didn't package Wine properly. Your footgay conspiracy theories have nothing to do with this.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>.exe isn't an executable to Linux
not with that attitude
2 years ago
Anonymous
Congratulations, you figured out binfmt_misc. Do you want a cookie?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>i knew that! i was just testing you!
2 years ago
Anonymous
>hurr if you do this trick you can turn any file into an executable >haha gottem
Shut the frick up Black person. This is completely irrelevant to the discussion. You showed off that you have knowledge of a somewhat niche feature that 90% of the brainlets here are entirely unaware of. Maybe you impressed some of them. You fed your own ego with something that has nothing to do with what was being discussed.
2 years ago
Anonymous
you're projecting, mate, i'm not claiming it's an impressive thing to do, just that it's a thing you can do
you claimed linux cannot recognise exes as executables, i only demonstrated how it can be configured to recognise exes as executables, binfmt_misc is indeed a kernel feature, there's no reason any file manager should be unable to run an exe like this
2 years ago
Anonymous
And indeed Nautilus is not excluded from that either. It can run any executables, be it ELF, scripts, or file types registered with binfmt_misc.
2 years ago
Anonymous
that's all you needed to say, it can run executables
You know is so weird they act like this, at some point they all used Windows/MacOS so at some point they had to change, use something different that didn't even work half as well as Windows (if they're old) something new, but now they refuse to do the same the change is good it isn't just because it brings thing like proper multi monitor with different refresh support, HDR, proper scaling on 4K+ screen, proper touch support for 2-in-1 laptops and some more but they refuse.
How they did the do change from Windows/MacOS before if they're so against to change? is amusing to see
>proper multi monitor with different refresh support
Works in xorg. >HDR
Neither xorg nor wayland have this. >proper scaling on 4K+ screen
Scaling is actually worse on wayland hilariously enough. >proper touch support for 2-in-1 laptops
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this one, but there are plenty of existing drivers for touch support.
The simple fact is that wayland doesn't actually solve any problems for most users and introduces a shitload of new ones that upstream wayland devs don't want to fix because "muh security" or something.
>Works in xorg.
Not him but I've never seen any xorg based desktop offer any option for setting different refresh rate or scaling for different monitors. >inb4 just edit your xorg.conf bro
lol
In anyways it now works on GNOME. XWayland apps look like utter trash but native wayland apps like firefox, vs code scales perfectly.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>setting different refresh rate
Literally works out of the box. If for some reason it doesn't, you can just change modes with xrandr. >scaling for different monitors
On good applications, this also works out of the box because they can get physical dimensions via Randr. If an application doesn't use DPI (this would be like an application on wayland not using the scale value), you can just scale per output with xrandr. This is actually better than the compositor doing the scaling on wayland because xorg doesn't act moronic with fractional values and do the weird upscale -> downscale dance.
> XWayland apps look like utter trash
That's an XWayland not Xorg limitation.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Not him but I've never seen any xorg based desktop offer any option for setting different refresh rate or scaling for different monitors.
Just because the foot doesn't show the option in the GUI doesn't mean you can't do it.
xrandr is your friend.
See:
Moving from old shit to new shit causes pointless breaking, which is why the proper replacement of Xorg needs to actually be good.
Wayland should have never happened, really Linux should have borrowed either Haiku's window system, or Plan 9's rio, and called it a day.
anything above gtk 2 sucks. now i can't even resize ui columns and have it remember the sizes and scroll wheel control on file manager tabs stopped working.. was fine on gtk 2
I'm not memeing here. Is there any possible way to make GNOME not look like shit with GTK4 applications since themes cannot be picked for anything but legacy ones? I don't know if it's just the colors or what but this new adwaita theme looks ugly as shit for the light theme at least. The dark one I don't mention because I don't even use dark themes, but this is just a little bit too much. Surely there's a way, right? I didn't mind how adwaita looked before so I didn't think of fricking ricing it, but now I honestly do.
>165hz monitor with VRR connected >60hz monitor with nothing of note connected >AMD GPU >use xorg >both locked to 60fps except for the cursor unless I love tearing and disable composition >VRR doesn't work unless I turn a monitor off >use wayland on plasma >165hz monitor caps at 165fps like it should >60hz monitor caps at 60fps like it should >move cursor, VRR is gone >use wayland on gnome >VRR doesn't work oob >test VRR support on gnome >VRR works, mixed refresh rates work
It's just this simple
How long did it take to get here? Like how long have you lived without this "feature"?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I lived up until I was 11 without computers, what's your point?
2 years ago
Anonymous
My point it the last time I've seen something like this was on Windows 7. After 7 I could set two different refresh rates for monitors.
2 years ago
Anonymous
We're talking about loonix here. Windows had that for a good while. It did have its issues though and for the record as of today, even on W11 (I should know, I'm using it right now), my 60hz monitor is not capped at 60fps, but 165, so even they haven't figured this one out (still it's better to have it capped at the highest common denominator than the lowest). But VRR has been working better for ages.
Multi-monitor VRR is nice, but the fact that it only works sanely on one particular compositor is pretty much evidence at how stupid the wayland ecosystem is. Meanwhile if someone ever gets around to fixing it on xorg, it'll work everywhere instantly.
If someone ever gets around to fixing it on xorg I won't hesitate to go back to it, but that's a big damn "if". I haven't seen any progress on that besides a setting called AsyncFlipSecondaries that makes at least mixed refresh rates work at the expense of having the monitor with the lower refresh rate tear to a point it's almost unusable. And the monitor with lower refresh rate better not have a higher resolution in any way, or it'll be picked up as primary making the fix useless.
The other fix I guess involves being a nerd and using an ancient WM and separate xorg screens, I am not dealing with that shit no matter how horrible wayland is.
Mixed refresh rates literally just work out of the box for me no clue what you're on about. They work fine with picom and/or tear free.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ok sure. It works with vsync disabled (wherever picom works well) and tearfree. Uncapped to a moronic high, irregular fps, so now everytime I do something like open a context menu I had to listen to my GPU whining about it. You can actually cap it on Plasma with KWin and you know what happens? It decides to skip frames every now and then even if you set it to the exact framerate of your high refresh rate monitor.
By the way picom and tearfree are not exactly OOB, just saying.
2 years ago
Anonymous
See
Xorg can do it, too.
. No tearing, correct frame rate, dynamic vsync.
That's with Intel. It works because they care about driver quality.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>muh obscure commandline hack
I'm good thanks.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I'm good thanks.
It's like that OOTB.
I've tested various combinations of compositing, no compositing, tearfree, and no tearfree and it literally just works.
[...]
It works with amd for me.
>It works with amd for me.
Interesting. Which card? kernel driver? With KMS?
I'm asking because someone else had problems with his mixed refresh rate setup.
Cool. I do more things with my GPU than web browsing so I don't use an intel GPU.
>Cool. I do more things with my GPU than web browsing so I don't use an intel GPU.
Cool, so what. The point is the problem lies with driver quality.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Then I guess people saying AMD GPU drivers are good are lying. In any case it's something that works without any sort of setup on AMD on Wayland.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Then I guess people saying AMD GPU drivers are good are lying. In any case it's something that works without any sort of setup on AMD on Wayland.
It's the Xorg amdgpu driver is lacking and modesetting is also crippled. The mesa GL/Vulkan and kernel KMS/DRM drivers are fine.
They just don't give a shit any more. Yes, it works on Wayland. On the other hand what doesn't work on Wayland is using the dedicated 2D block on my Intel GPU.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Bro who cares about xorg? Literally every single distro that matters ship GNOME on Wayland.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Xorg is currently 80-90% of the Linux desktop.
2 years ago
Anonymous
source?
2 years ago
Anonymous
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Firefox-Wayland-X11-Stats
I've seen lower numbers like 80% elsewhere, but it's in that ballpark.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Do people SERIOUSLY enable browser telemetry?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>enable
Isn't it enabled by default?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, and Xorg chads are more likely to have the brains to disable it than GNOME babbies.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No firefox asks you to "choose what" you share.
2 years ago
Anonymous
xorg cucks are okay with a keylogger, what makes you think they'll disable the telemetry?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>xorg cucks are okay with a keylogger, what makes you think they'll disable the telemetry?
Xorg chads are tinkerers and are more likely to tweak and change things up. Unlike GNOME chuds who just take what they can get.
2 years ago
Anonymous
As long as Wayland doesn't properly work with NVidia, it doesn't really exist to me.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This just proves my theory. All xorg shills are actually NVIDIA shills in disguise.
Yes, and Xorg chads are more likely to have the brains to disable it than GNOME babbies.
>lying blatantly
Frick off homosexual, we don't want you here.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not an "NVidia shills". I just happen to have a laptop with an NVidia GPU.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>This just proves my theory. All xorg shills are actually NVIDIA shills in disguise.
I use Intel GPU and I still shit on Wayland.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Then I guess people saying AMD GPU drivers are good are lying. In any case it's something that works without any sort of setup on AMD on Wayland.
It's just RX 550 on the latest kernel. And use of course with kms. amd has used kms for literally years.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You can disable KMS on Polaris and earlier cards. But thanks for clarifying.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Cool. I do more things with my GPU than web browsing so I don't use an intel GPU.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I've tested various combinations of compositing, no compositing, tearfree, and no tearfree and it literally just works.
See [...]. No tearing, correct frame rate, dynamic vsync.
That's with Intel. It works because they care about driver quality.
It works with amd for me.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's a known issue, so either you're referring to the fact that yes, monitors can be set to different refresh rates or there's something you're not telling us.
>[thing that works] will be dropped and replaced with [thing that doesn't work as well but will in 20 years, maybe]
All Linux news for over a decade now.
I don't even use GTK4, why should I care?
Nobody cares.
Gtk "devs" can go frick themselves.
Qt 7 won't have it either.
Not happening
GTK gets worse with every new version, so this is no surprise. I'm already avoiding it as much as possible. Hopefully, I'll have found replacements for all GTK programs by the time this is effectively forced on me.
Lmao does anyone have a photo of red hat and gnome devs faces?
this is the gnome developer who locked the thread to keep sane discussion out:
https://twitter.com/ebassi/photo
gay homosexual; tweets about how kink needs to be at "pride"; retweets all sorts of fedora aetheism nonsense... This is the type of person making decisions for GTK/GNOME
Don't use GTK, people. It's shit anyway and QT is superior in basically every single way. These types of people get off on forcing their moronic ideas like gayland on everyone
thanks, but im sticking with xfce and gtk 3
have fun compiling GTK3 in the future and patching it once it can't be compiler anymore.
same to you.
>have fun compiling GTK3 in the future and patching it once it can't be compiler anymore
i do not have to, people do it for me
also i can always install gcc7 again in the future and use it
>have fun compiling GTK3 in the future and patching it once it can't be compiler anymore.
You can still compile GTK2 on a modern system without problem. I'm not sure what you think the problem is.
2030 year of the wayland desktop!
oof that pains me
>oof that pains me
What's wrong?
I've said it before, but the reason Wayland will win is not because desktop linux users like, but because linux devs like it. Even if 100% of no-dev desktop linux users stay on X11, development will move to Wayland only and X11 will be abandonware.
>linux devs like it
https://dudemanguy.github.io/blog/posts/2022-06-10-wayland-xorg/wayland-xorg.html
>Wayland is shit, but is better than X11
Precisely proving my point.
Wayland was never meant to save the linux desktop. The linux desktop will always be shite. Is was just an improvement over X.
>Here we are nearly 14 years later into this mess and Wayland is still leagues behind Xorg in several different ways
Misquoting is not a point.
>But is a better solution overall
note he never claims wayland is flat out worse, just worse in specific areas. Wayland was always going to be worse in many areas and always going to be shit. Did linux-gays really think they'd have a well architected desktop environment? If you want that use Mac OS or Windows.
What's broken in both except for security in X11? Screen sharing is working in Wayland now and multi-display works on both.
>Wayland's client API is gimped.
>Wayland's lack of feature parity with Xorg cripples it.
>Wayland's render loop design is ridiculous.
>Wayland's Mesa implementations are leagues behind Xorg's.
>Wayland itself has bad core decisions.
>Was it really worth it?
>Xorg is by no means perfect, but it has one big thing going in its favor: it works
>>"better solution overall"
Still misquoting. You claimed devs like it, reality is they don't.
Like it more than X. That's why GTK is dropping X support altogether already.
Not all devs are redhat employees.
is shit, but is better than X11
The article comes to literally the opposite conclusion.
>The article comes to literally the opposite conclusion.
oh it did? Please quote me where it says that. That should be a simple task for you.
Its pretty much implied in the whole article that outside of the most basic b***h demonstrator app, Wayland is a pain the ass.
But you morons will never accept defeat until a "figure of authority" aka a paid corpo shill will exactly say, word for word "A is better than B".
Kys
>i.. i can't quote it.. but you can *feel* he means it all over the article
I thought you said it was his conclusion, but now it's something hes just vaguely impling? Holy shit, that's some rocket grade copium right there.
>But you morons will never accept defeat until a "figure of authority" aka a paid corpo shill will exactly say, word for word "A is better than B".
You were the moron who claimed he said something that he clearly didn't lmao.
fricking cope, the conclusion is, well, a conclusion of the whole article. That's on you if you don't have basic English comprehension. Then again I'm not the same anon as two replies ago.
And again you're deflecting until someone outright says that A is worse than B.
>And again you're deflecting until someone outright says that A is worse than B.
You were the moron who claimed he said X better than Wayland, not me. Holy shit.
Imagine claiming something, then immediately accusing someone else of saying the exact same thing. Why are all X11 gays schizos?
fricking read the conclusion if you want a quote or something holy shit. its just 2 fricking paragraphs
I did. That's why I pointed out he doesn't say anything that you claimed. Not sure what you think anyone would gain by me quoting something we both read. The point was to humiliate you demonstrating you can't find where he said what you claim, and that's done to my satisfaction now.
so we're back to
>But you morons will never accept defeat until a "figure of authority" aka a paid corpo shill will exactly say, word for word "A is better than B".
as expected from wayland shills.
Troll.
why do people do this? not replying in such a way that anyone is going to see it? are anons really this stupid? the whole reason for replying is so that someone sees it. by not replying properly you're wasting your OWN time. so what's the point of being this homosexual?
x11 is the best thing about the linux desktop. gayland is garbage and everyone responsible for it should be killed
>everyone responsible for it should be killed
so the x11 devs? you do understand it's 99% overlap? the x11 devs determined it was too shit to continue and went with wayland instead
>so the x11 devs? you do understand it's 99% overlap?
It's not.
yes it is, you're just not aware because you're moronic and don't understand anything about display servers and protocols beyond surface level IQfy memes
https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/30/x_server_lead_maintainer_declares/
https://ajaxnwnk.blogspot.com/2020/10/on-abandoning-x-server.html
Adam Jackson has done no significant work on wayland. Also that blogpost is both, not relevant to your assertion, and also is only going to look more and more stupid as time goes on.
>https://dudemanguy.github.io/blog/posts/2022-06-10-wayland-xorg/wayland-xorg.html
>The big and obvious mistake to point out is fractional scaling. For some reason unknown to me, the Wayland protocol only supports integer scale values. To be frank, this is asinine and everyone pays the price for it. As higher resolution displays became common, users naturally wanted to scale the display to fractional values (1.5 and so on). Because telling users "you can't do this" to something as basic as this was a non-starter, all compositors implement a hack with this. They tell clients to scale up to the next integer and then the compositor downscales it to the correct one.
Is he joking? Does he actually not realise that's how it's meant to work? What he's describing is what Mac OS and iOS both do, which is way better than Windows behaviour. Why bother writing a massive blog post of design decisions that you don't even understand the basis of?
These are they only kinds of people complaining about Wayland. People who understand X11 and Wayland enough to contribute to the desktop environments themselves understand Wayland is superior.
>durr copying crApple pajeetOS monkey code good
Get a toilet curry Black person
Nothing incorrect in what I said
- Posted from my MacBook Pro
>that's how it's meant to work
No, it's not you dumb Black person.
The macOS model for scaling is fricking moronic.
The wayland developers are moving towards the Windows model by working on a fractional scale extension because they realized that the mac behavior was a moronic mistake. A big name company doing something stupid is not justification for Wayland also doing something stupid.
This isn't windows, most of the devs are also users. Cinnamon for example said that they never will port it to wayland
>This isn't windows, most of the devs are also users.
Didn't way they weren't.
>Cinnamon for example said that they never will port it to wayland
The exception that proves the rule.
>Cinnamon for example said that they never will port it to wayland
They never claimed this.
No, wayland is a huge pain. I have software written for x11 and I use embedding. That's only 1 line in x11. In wayland that's 50 000 lines of code (literally minimum) to do the exact same thing. You can write a friggin window manager in x11 in only 20 lines of code.
This anon knows.
X11 is an ancient pile of cruft, but if you avoid the awful legacy bindings it's deceptively easy to develop for. Wayland is so restrictive and underdesigned that doing anything nontrivial is pain.
Window embedding is a particularly enlightening example. I don't know why wayland devs seem to hate this so much. All you would have to do is extend xdg-foreign a little bit more, but the gitlab issue on that got ridiculous and then they locked it.
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/issues/74
> linux devs like it.
Core kernel developers are not involved in GUI developement.
The only people that "like" Wayland are full time RedHat/IBM/Collabora employees.
Actual app developers hate Wayland. E.g. One "XGetImage()" call translates to at least 500+ lines of code in Wayland, and then it's not guaranteed to work in the future due to lack of standardized interfaces.
>The only people that "like" Wayland are X11 and Wayland devs
yes
>Actual app developers hate Wayland
yes, morons like:
precisely my point. These people will cry and moan but never contribute to a better solution because they have a poor grasp on the basic concepts, let alone enough smarts to lead a better solution.
Linux: the operating system without useful programs.
you seriously believe there won't be a couple of people who the exact opposite of xwayland? i don't even think you need to because shit like sway can just run as X client so it'd be trivial
I guarantee you that neither GTK 5 nor 6, 7, 8 or 9 will drop X support. Most people are on X and will be for the next 50 years because it's simply better than the wayland garbage.
you will NOT theme our apps with KDE filepicker thumbnails
What this means?
with GTK_USE_PORTAL gtk uses system portal dialog (so file picker) instead of native shit
portals are designed for shit like flatpak what does not have file access natively in all configurations
I bet GTK/GNOME devs are browsing distro wiki all day just to find something get offended.
what a fricking homosexual
>clowns
uhhh gnome sisters this is offensive let's ban this person from the project
No, Arch clonws aren't humans so it doesn't count.
>red hat footgay Black person noises
do a flip
It's because RH Black folk forced it into maintenance mode. I hope someone forks it when it turns out how much of a turd Wayland really is.
Unless a competent company picks up the slack, probably system76, since they and canonical were unficking gnome turd for years.
>I hope someone forks it
Not gonna happen. Xtards are too dumb to maintain even simple software and the original Xorg developers agree that Xorg is a piece of shit to maintain.
They are so quick to merge this shit, but can't do anything about file thumbnails for years
This change only involves moving some code around, the entire patch probably comes out at about 20 LoC.
Don't use GTK, but good on them X needs to go
The only way I can find loonix usable right now is with GNOME on Wayland, and it's not because I like GNOME.
is there any program that uses gtk4? or is it a meme?
i hope they add thumbnails in gtk5 kek
Some extensions do, then there's some basic GNOME applications like the settings panel. Which is a problem really because you have to download a theme for GTK3 applications to make them not look like you're using 2 different themes.
They are fixing it. GTK will support calling nautilus to use it as a file picker (it is merged already).
gtk has always had the ability to call any file picker via xdg portal thats what
is talking. There are two widgets gtk_filechooser_dialog and gtk_filechooser_native. The former is the shitty filepicker thats used as the standard while native is the one that is supposed to be used in the future but if the devs didn't use it though luck it will still look like shit. Gtk devs are moronic its the same effort could have just fixed the normal file dialog instead of writing a new one only for nautilus.
Or maybe, there should just be gtk_filechooser which automatically uses the xdg-desktop-portal one if available and falls back on the dogshit one. That would probably go against the GNOME vision™.
thats what the issue boils down to they are just malicious and would walk a mile over broken glass just to prove a point. Would be based if they weren't such massive corporate shills and defender of zog.
This is exactly.what the "native" one is doing, but the mechanism is reversed: use the built-in one normally, and use the portal one if the application detects that it's in a Flatpak or if GTK_USE_PORTAL is set. And im fact most applications do already use the native file picker. It's just Chrome/Chromium and a few others that are still stuck in the past.
GNOME devs unironically want to be like Apple and have their own "identity", that's why they oppose any kind of customization.
Unlike apple the GNOME devs don't produce anything remotely usable.
They don't care, most of them use macOS as their daily OS anyways.
Months of lurking in X vs Wayland threads and I still don't know why Wayland is bad besides "it's not ready yet"
It's bad because some people have nvidia GPUs. Well actually it does have some issues, like drag and drop not working all that well between wayland and xwayland applications. It's not what I would say "there yet", but shit like finding input lag on Wayland made me look for gamescope, which is a great thing to exist. The biggest issue I find though is that it's only usable on GNOME, partially on Plasma, and Sway. I heard last year MATE was going to get Wayland support but I see it nowhere. It deals with my displays like xorg could never, so I kinda want it to work as good as possible.
>not ready yet
it won't be ready yet in 50 years because it's absolute garbage
MIR was better frick Gnome and Red Hat
How about they drop that shitty file picker?
all my gtk programs are gtk2 anyways
Why would I care what footgays are doing?
It will be fun watching all the njudea lovers seethe really hard when they can't use linux anymore.
jokes on them i dropped gtk
What would be the first good decision footgays made in a decade.
That's absolutely fantastic. I hope Qt drops it too so better toolkits become more popular again.
>better toolkits become more popular again.
Such as?
FLTK
GNUStep.
Explain how GNUStep is better.
That was joke anon. It's not better. At least not in it's current state. Most programs are very primitive and don't hold a candle against their GTK/Qt counterparts.
The good thing about it is, it's completely free as in freedom and runs on about everything. Linux, BSD, MacOS, Windows... You name it.
Based
>Such as?
Nothing. That's the point.
first they have to thow away gnome 3 and rewrite the entire compositor from the ground up cuz its a laggy piece of shit on wayland.
IMAGINE USING A DESKTOP ENVIROMENT THAT STUTTERS, LAGS, AND LOCKS UP THE MOUSE CURSOR LMAO AHAHHAHAHAH
Doesn't matter. A lot of projects are moving away from GTK and towards Qt, efl, literally anything else.
>GIMP (GNU (GNU's Not Unix) Image Manipulation Program) can not be compiled against a current version of GTK (GIMP (GNU (GNU's Not Unix) Image Manipulation Program) ToolKit)
What does the ``K'' stand for in GTK?
kit
Potassium dahh
israelites
it's silent
Good, X is trash.
Thank god.
Good. This means GTK will drop the BSDs, and I'd like not to deal with GTK anymore.
With all the moronic shit linux has done lately it will be dead in the water in the desktop space before GTK5 happens, so why should we care ?
Not gonna happen. It just isn't.
Stage 1: Denial
Blocking 90% of your users from using your software is a sure fire way to improve your software.
Yes. And the goal is to improve it for the 10% of users who pay the bills. No the 90% who cry about everything from their moms basement.
Nothing wrong with what I said. X11 and Wayland is developed by companies, not charities.
Actually both are developed by non-profit organizations. So, you know, legal charities. Are all Wayland homosexuals sub-80 IQ morons, or just all the ones who evangelize on IQfy?
>Actually both are developed by non-profit organizations. So, you know, legal charities.
A non-profit is not a "legal charity".
> Are all Wayland homosexuals sub-80 IQ morons
The fricking irony boys
>A non-profit is not a "legal charity".
that's true. A charity is supposed to make the world better, the opposite of Wayland.
>A non-profit is not a "legal charity".
Perhaps not in Angola or whatever other fricking third world shit hole you're from, but in the United States where both non-profits are registered, yup, sure as shit, they are tax-exempt non-profit organizations established for the public good. Both colloquially and legally defined as "charity". Go ahead and see if you can hire an ESL coach to translate section 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code into your native language and find out for yourself.
>The fricking irony boys
Indeed, morons like you are typically unaware that they are morons to such a terminal extent that they actually believe that people who are not morons are actually the morons. It would be hilariously funny if it wasn't so fricking sad.
>boot into wayland distro
>need to set a custom resolution
>golly gee lets fire up xrandr and jus--
>xrandr: command not found
>quickly look for wayland equivalent
>it does not exist
>wtf
>have to edit kernel boot parameters to force an entire custom monitor edid just so I can set a custom resolution
>doesn't work
>ask for help
>"Y-yikes... Why would you want a custom resolution?"
And this was my first and final experience with that piece of shit. If it becomes The standard I'm dropping all distros that implement it and sticking to abandonware ones or even outright going back to windows after more than a decade. I will tolerate bugs that frick me over, but I will not tolerate Black person "developers" who smugly want to frick me over.
>"Y-yikes... Why would you want a custom resolution?"
This has to be a joke anon.
Why would you want a custom resolution?
Not that anon, but I'm half blind and I need my special snowflake resolution.
Perhaps there are more usecases than I thought.
I'd still think that's in the large minority and that would come later
Not linux-related but I was asked to set up a HTPC for a friend and his shitty cheap TV. The television had a fricked up EDID and Windows insisted on using 64Hz for all resolutions so i had to use Custom Resolution Utility to manually add display resolutions with correct refresh rates.
Most of IQfy however probably wants custom resolutions for supersampling or display overclocking.
Perfect frame pacing for movies using MPV's video-sync=display-resample mode, without the visible FRC artifacts I get using VRR. And even if I had an 8bit or 10bit panel, this would still give lower jitter than VRR.
xrandr is to fricking powerfull, you can brick monitors by forcing a refresh rate.
Also taking a 8k tv and splitting it into 4 4k monitors is to powerfull, to much power with a simple command.
>brick
I tried this but my screen would just go blank and come back. How do I properly brick a display with xrandr? Is it impossible on modern monitors?
>Is it impossible on modern monitors
I don't think it's possible to break any LCD like that. It'll either sync to the signal and work or it will show nothing/maybe an error. On old CRTs you could actually damage them by going crazy with the timings.
The only risk I'm aware of is that you will be driving some of the components harder than they might be designed for, which means they will run slightly hotter. Maybe. I've never heard of a monitor overheating, so it's just hypothetical. Also, some monitors will apparently skip frames if driven out of spec, but I have never seen this personally. Most will happily do 75Hz (especially if they have some native 75Hz modes like 640x480@75Hz). One of mine does even 90Hz, but it's a shit panel with bad response time so it's blurry even at 60Hz. It does work, though.
Sway just lets you define it in the config file.
>>need to set a custom resolution
>doesn't know what a custom resolution is
"custom resolution" usually also includes things like refresh rate and timings in general.
Now do 75Hz.
If my monitor supported 75 Hz, the option would come up.
That's likely wrong. And that's the problem.
Wayland does not disallow 75Hz. Please show me where in the protocol does it say so.
No one said it does. The problem is it won't let you set a mode it doesn't know about.
You can't set 37.5Hz, or 55Hz either but I guarantee your monitor would work fine with those.
Why the hell would I mismatch the framerate and refresh rate?
Wow, you are moronic. Frame rate is tied to refresh rate unless you play a video.
>I’ve never in my life seen a monitor support these. Wtf are you talking about?
Custom video modes.
>Custom video modes.
Meaning what? A monitor will report to the OS what refresh rates it supports. I’m sure you can hack things to force it to accept whatever you send it, but rarely would I expect that to do anything good.
>A monitor will report to the OS what refresh rates it supports.
This is where you keep missing the point. Parent wants to set something that the monitor's EDID (which of course you cannot edit, it's in the monitor's output board) isn't sending something it should. Wayland lacks the ability to let the user set the timings themselves easily.
Wayland could have that feature, since all modelines are text anyway, but then Red Hat would probably b***h about it since a moron could end up with a chinesium display that glitches out and won't reset.
>but I guarantee your monitor would work fine with those.
I’ve never in my life seen a monitor support these. Wtf are you talking about?
How the frick is that related to custom video modes?
Who the frick is talking about custom video modes? Why the hell are you lowering your refresh rate when your monitor supports more?
God are you dense. Usually you'd want this to force a HIGHER refresh rate than the monitor claims to support. CLAIMS to support. Because most of the time it can actually do more. I have two that do 75Hz just fine and one even goes up to 90Hz without issues. Sometimes monitors do stupid shit like advertise 64Hz like
said. You NEED custom video mode support to fix that shit. Otherwise you're fricked.
>You NEED custom video mode support to fix that shit.
You do tell wayland the monitors supports whatever goody refresh rates you like. What are you actually asking for that you can’t do now?
Set a refresh rate not listed in pic related:
. Sway might be able to do it, but with GNOME you probably have to inject a customized EDID into the kernel and add some arcane kernel parameters.
>Usually you'd want this to force a HIGHER refresh rate than the monitor claims to support. CLAIMS to support.
No, not really. I don't want to potentially damage the monitor by pretending to know about it more than the engineers who manufactured this.
If I wanted a 75Hz monitor, I'd buy one. Overclocking is unstable by definition.
And what about lower refresh rates like
?
>what about lower refresh rates
See
I don't want lower refresh rate btw. Why the hell would I pay for a 60Hz monitor when I want 30?
So frick
, right?
>Shit TV
Not my problem.
Exactly. You're a selfish butthole and an idiot.
IDK about you but gimping mainstream dev focus on minority userbase problem is not feasible in real world, anon. If those that care about their cases so much they can contribute to the upstream.
>I don't want lower refresh rate btw. Why the hell would I pay for a 60Hz monitor when I want 30?
i made a custom ~47.95i mode for outputting to an SDTV, down from 50Hz, so i could play ~23.98fps media at regular speed on it, because i can
i have a 50Hz mode set up on my "60Hz" monitor so i can play 25/50fps video as well as emulate pal games
contrarian Black person
That's so fricking moronic.
>supporting mixed refresh rate is moronic
??
incorrect, monitors don't advertise every mode they could possibly do
my monitor only exposes 60Hz at 1080p, but i have a 72Hz mode set up for it, because technically it will sync up to 76Hz, which is advertised and even in the manual (so it's not even an overclock)
hmm, i don't see my 72/1.001Hz mode in there
meanwhile with xrandr;
1920x1080 60.00 + 71.93 72.00* 59.94 60.00 50.00
not the same person, but wayland seriously has no way to define custom modelines? that's pretty fatal, i wouldn't even be able to watch anime/movies/tv shows smoothly otherwise, since my monitor doesn't normally have any modes which are a multiple of 24(/1.001)
You can do it in sway. I don't know about any other compositors. But yeah, it would be a compositor-specific thing in any case which is one of the most annoying things about wayland.
>i don't see my 72/1.001Hz mode in there
Because my monitor doesn't support it.
See
>SDTV
>pal games
None of my problem.
my 72Hz mode is NOT an overclock, every parameter is within spec
the modes advertised by the monitors' EDID are simply presets, and do not represent the entire capability of the monitor
also, if you're wondering why then it doesn't advertise 72Hz normally, it's because that's not part of any standard, it's useful to me because it is a multiple of 24, so most video can be played back more smoothly using this, it also gives me something higher than 60 so it's good for playing games at a higher framerate
Closed: WONTFIX: Not a bug
Dare I say BASED?
X11 is a pile of garabge, and the bigger steps we take towards moving to wayland the more addoption we'll get and the better it will get. I'm all for it.
>X11 is a pile of garbage
and yet wayland somehow manages to be worse
How so? I tried it out on a livecd and it seemed very smooth and responsive.
> X11 is a pile of garabge
X11 was the lowest common denominator that the many UNIX vendors of the 80s could agree upon. For what it is it is actually pretty good.
Could I write something better? YES!
Could I write something better while preserving backwards compatibility? NO!
Could I write something worse without preserving backwards compatibility? I couldn't but Waylanders managed to pull it off!
Sounds like bullshit reasons to try to avoid innovating.
Innovation is bad for interoperability, pretty much by definition. The GUI isn't not some innovative whizzbang feature in any Operating System, any more than the shell interface is.
It was figured out in the 80s and 90s, and now we shouldn't frick with it.
umm sweetie, wayland is a protocol. what implementation of wayland are you talking about ? please educate yourself before posting 😉
Kek is Linux Desktop still a thing? lmao been using windows 10 ltsc for years and never looked back
>I didn't know desktop linux was still a thing
>Linux on desktop talked about all the time here
Did your tard wrangler loose you?
>gtk5
>still haven't heard of gtk4
Are we talking about gtk or the "covid" waves
>When Time Comes For GTK5
So, about a decade if past GTK releases are any indicator
>It Might Be Wayland-Only On Linux
*Might* be Wayland-only *on Linux*. This according to Michael fricking Larabel, the most clickbait-happy moron in the Linux community. Who based it on an issue opened by a Red Hat employee *suggesting* that the GTK devs *consider* dropping the X11 backend.
Really desperate for some (you)s today, huh Jay? What's the matter, mommy take away your sparklers for July 4th?
If they succeed it would be nice if gets more adoption but I feel like this is history on repeat. Oh well a homie can dream, a homie can hope.
Better idea. Drop gnome.
If Wayland stays in its current state, they won't. They know it all too well, that's why GNOME still keeps the X11 backend.
If Wayland actually worked objectively better than X11 for every situation, they would have dropped the X11 backend long ago.
death to all easter masdachusetts based "people". nuke boston
what is gtk?
>using "modern" GTK
I like GTK because it's not a pile of trash when I use it with X11 forwarding.
QT on the other hand is unbearable, even on LAN
oh wow gnome devs are so future thinking
wowmazement
when the hell will the file picker get thumbnails
Good riddance. Nobody uses Xorg sessions anymore anyways. This will get rid of a pointless development bottleneck.
moron. see
>Nobody uses Xorg sessions anymore anyways
90% == nobody
https://www.realmicentral.com/2022/02/07/fewer-than-10-of-firefox-users-on-linux-are-running-wayland/
>Xorg morons leave telemetry on
Is there anything else I should learn from this?
I highly doubt Wayland users would care more about telemetry than Xorg users. Your comment is just speculation.
Nope, Xorg shills don’t care about privacy. Otherwise they wouldn’t be running a keylogger with root permission in their computer 24/7.
The keyloggers can run as any user with access to the X session, idiot.
Good. Both GTK and Wayland can go die in a corner.
Xorg can do it, too.
The lead dev of libinput refuses to implement chiral/circular scrolling. He implemented this exact feature for X11 on the old synaptic driver. Until this is done I am stuck with X11 because my Panasonic Let's Note has a circular trackpad designed to scroll by running your finger along the edges.
HAHAHA homosexualS
What a homosexual.
GNOEM users and developers are all proven to be extreme homosexual degenerates
Sometimes I have a separate x session and different wm on each monitor, can wayland do this?
gtk has been shit for decades now
Notice how there is or nor will ever be a gtk-X11 fork despite the loud circlejerk about gtk dropping a deprecated platform.
Curious. Do these people know anything about programming at all? Or all they can do is write fizzbuzz in vim and post it in desktop threads.
Forking is a meme.
Red hat is the antichrist and their objective is to completely kill linux
Dumb chud, Linux is GPL. That means that no one can kill it.
They are slowly killing it by introducing terrible standards (Wayland, systemd) and "incentivizing" developers to adopt them
Sure, Linux is free software and anyone can work on it and make it better but there will soon be nobody interested in making any major efforts to fix the garbage red hat is leaving behind
That is unfortunately the major problem with freetardware
>freetardware
freetroonyware
nobody is using gtk4 and nobody will use gtk5 either
>Rule #1 when an issue gets linked on reddit or the green site: lock it down. Don't waste time with the commentariat, it's entirely inconsequential, and it avoids spam in the maintainers mail
https://twitter.com/ebassi/status/1543632421425451012?cxt=HHwWiMC47cfgiuwqAAAA
I have no idea what GTK is or does sorry
Thank god we still have QT.
I've been trying out Plasma and it's actually really good.
*Krashes*
the moment a distro switches to wayland is the moment i switch to another distro
>X11 code sees little activity
because it just werks?
xorg isn't unmaintained, it's finished
>It's finished
Where is HDR?
is screensharing fixed on wayland yet?
https://www.omglinux.com/zoom-linux-can-now-screenshare-wayland/
Yes.
>gnome developers began thinking
(X) doubt
Frick this shit, i reinstalled windows anyways.
Feels like theyre burning the whole thing down since steam made linux a viable alternative. Fricking buttholes.
Good morning sir
Well, I tried Windows 11 and it's a piece of wank.
How come there's a fricking delay in rendering taskbar menus on 8 core processor. What is this incompetent bullshit?
Then I hope that a competent company will fix remaining issues. Guess I'll stay on X for another decade. Not like I'm missing out. It just works࿕
Keep seething you moronic homosexuals, if everyone was listening to you we'd still be living in the stone age. You are moronic enough to jerk off to absolute atrocity that 90's design of Microsoft was.
Yes, Wayland is trash, but xorg is fricking dead, we need to move on from it one way or another. If you're so smart, why don't you try to do this?
Fricking inceloid loser good for nothing homosexuals, complaining is all you know
i refuse to listen to ui opinions from someone who things windows 95's ui was atrocious
gnome 3 will never be as coherent and nice to use as windows 95
Is there anything worse than a pseud armchair UI specialist trying to say THAT outdated obsolete pile of trash is acceptable? Grow the frick up, you have an unhygienic obsession with retrohippie tech.
>Is there anything worse than a pseud armchair UI specialist
take your own advice and kys gnome apologist.
Shut the frick up retro hippie, nobody cares about your opinion.
nobody gives a shit about your too subhuman.
I like trashing ms, but win 9x UI is the best desktop ui ever
Everything is a downhill since then
I blame morons having access to computers, web apps, and smart phones
>X is dead
Weird, works on my machine.
Recently I tried to run .exe from Nautilus. Turns out foot fungus connoisseurs removed option to launch executables from file manager for "muh security".
>Recently I tried to run .exe from Nautilus. Turns out foot fungus connoisseurs removed option to launch executables from file manager for "muh security".
Why are you lying?
>install wine
>no option to run wine in file manager
Are you pretending to be moronic? Linux can run windows programs since forever.
>install wine
>garbage distro doesn't install application handlers for .exe
>no option to run wine in file manager
>blame file manager
i've never heard of a file manager that can't run executables
Black personmonkey are you braindead? .exe isn't an executable to Linux, it's just a regular file like any other. A .jpg is opened with GIMP, a .mp3 is opened with your music player, a .exe is opened with Wine. Same shit every time. For that to work, there needs to be an association. GIMP tells the system that it can open .jpgs, your music player tells the system that it can open .mp3s. If Wine didn't tell the system it can open .exes, that means your distro's moronic devs didn't package Wine properly. Your footgay conspiracy theories have nothing to do with this.
>.exe isn't an executable to Linux
not with that attitude
Congratulations, you figured out binfmt_misc. Do you want a cookie?
>i knew that! i was just testing you!
>hurr if you do this trick you can turn any file into an executable
>haha gottem
Shut the frick up Black person. This is completely irrelevant to the discussion. You showed off that you have knowledge of a somewhat niche feature that 90% of the brainlets here are entirely unaware of. Maybe you impressed some of them. You fed your own ego with something that has nothing to do with what was being discussed.
you're projecting, mate, i'm not claiming it's an impressive thing to do, just that it's a thing you can do
you claimed linux cannot recognise exes as executables, i only demonstrated how it can be configured to recognise exes as executables, binfmt_misc is indeed a kernel feature, there's no reason any file manager should be unable to run an exe like this
And indeed Nautilus is not excluded from that either. It can run any executables, be it ELF, scripts, or file types registered with binfmt_misc.
that's all you needed to say, it can run executables
>Recently I tried to run .exe from Nautilus
>.exe
>nautilus
??
Are you using nautilus on Windows or what?
Maybe picrel
>Yes, Wayland is trash,
Works on my machine.
You know is so weird they act like this, at some point they all used Windows/MacOS so at some point they had to change, use something different that didn't even work half as well as Windows (if they're old) something new, but now they refuse to do the same the change is good it isn't just because it brings thing like proper multi monitor with different refresh support, HDR, proper scaling on 4K+ screen, proper touch support for 2-in-1 laptops and some more but they refuse.
How they did the do change from Windows/MacOS before if they're so against to change? is amusing to see
>proper multi monitor with different refresh support
Works in xorg.
>HDR
Neither xorg nor wayland have this.
>proper scaling on 4K+ screen
Scaling is actually worse on wayland hilariously enough.
>proper touch support for 2-in-1 laptops
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this one, but there are plenty of existing drivers for touch support.
The simple fact is that wayland doesn't actually solve any problems for most users and introduces a shitload of new ones that upstream wayland devs don't want to fix because "muh security" or something.
>Works in xorg.
Not him but I've never seen any xorg based desktop offer any option for setting different refresh rate or scaling for different monitors.
>inb4 just edit your xorg.conf bro
lol
In anyways it now works on GNOME. XWayland apps look like utter trash but native wayland apps like firefox, vs code scales perfectly.
>setting different refresh rate
Literally works out of the box. If for some reason it doesn't, you can just change modes with xrandr.
>scaling for different monitors
On good applications, this also works out of the box because they can get physical dimensions via Randr. If an application doesn't use DPI (this would be like an application on wayland not using the scale value), you can just scale per output with xrandr. This is actually better than the compositor doing the scaling on wayland because xorg doesn't act moronic with fractional values and do the weird upscale -> downscale dance.
> XWayland apps look like utter trash
That's an XWayland not Xorg limitation.
>Not him but I've never seen any xorg based desktop offer any option for setting different refresh rate or scaling for different monitors.
Just because the foot doesn't show the option in the GUI doesn't mean you can't do it.
xrandr is your friend.
See:
Moving from old shit to new shit causes pointless breaking, which is why the proper replacement of Xorg needs to actually be good.
Wayland should have never happened, really Linux should have borrowed either Haiku's window system, or Plan 9's rio, and called it a day.
i'm sure someday gnome will implement a drm sync with chastity cages for its users
anything above gtk 2 sucks. now i can't even resize ui columns and have it remember the sizes and scroll wheel control on file manager tabs stopped working.. was fine on gtk 2
Don't care, Wayland apps can run under X
https://www.mankier.com/1/weston#Backends-x11-backend.so
Of course they will. Integer scaling is the only sane way to do scaling.
>gtk
nothing of value was lost
So, what noticeable thing wayland fixes? like in terms of performance or usability.
AFAIK Wayland doesn't have a single feature that Xorg doesn't have.
A good way to get rid of screen tearing.
Never had tearing on Xorg
Then you have massive input lag.
I can't notice any input lag.
I'm not memeing here. Is there any possible way to make GNOME not look like shit with GTK4 applications since themes cannot be picked for anything but legacy ones? I don't know if it's just the colors or what but this new adwaita theme looks ugly as shit for the light theme at least. The dark one I don't mention because I don't even use dark themes, but this is just a little bit too much. Surely there's a way, right? I didn't mind how adwaita looked before so I didn't think of fricking ricing it, but now I honestly do.
>165hz monitor with VRR connected
>60hz monitor with nothing of note connected
>AMD GPU
>use xorg
>both locked to 60fps except for the cursor unless I love tearing and disable composition
>VRR doesn't work unless I turn a monitor off
>use wayland on plasma
>165hz monitor caps at 165fps like it should
>60hz monitor caps at 60fps like it should
>move cursor, VRR is gone
>use wayland on gnome
>VRR doesn't work oob
>test VRR support on gnome
>VRR works, mixed refresh rates work
It's just this simple
>this is a feature now
The point is, why would I cuck myself and not have this feature?
How long did it take to get here? Like how long have you lived without this "feature"?
I lived up until I was 11 without computers, what's your point?
My point it the last time I've seen something like this was on Windows 7. After 7 I could set two different refresh rates for monitors.
We're talking about loonix here. Windows had that for a good while. It did have its issues though and for the record as of today, even on W11 (I should know, I'm using it right now), my 60hz monitor is not capped at 60fps, but 165, so even they haven't figured this one out (still it's better to have it capped at the highest common denominator than the lowest). But VRR has been working better for ages.
Multi-monitor VRR is nice, but the fact that it only works sanely on one particular compositor is pretty much evidence at how stupid the wayland ecosystem is. Meanwhile if someone ever gets around to fixing it on xorg, it'll work everywhere instantly.
GNOME is the only non-meme DE.
If someone ever gets around to fixing it on xorg I won't hesitate to go back to it, but that's a big damn "if". I haven't seen any progress on that besides a setting called AsyncFlipSecondaries that makes at least mixed refresh rates work at the expense of having the monitor with the lower refresh rate tear to a point it's almost unusable. And the monitor with lower refresh rate better not have a higher resolution in any way, or it'll be picked up as primary making the fix useless.
The other fix I guess involves being a nerd and using an ancient WM and separate xorg screens, I am not dealing with that shit no matter how horrible wayland is.
Mixed refresh rates literally just work out of the box for me no clue what you're on about. They work fine with picom and/or tear free.
Ok sure. It works with vsync disabled (wherever picom works well) and tearfree. Uncapped to a moronic high, irregular fps, so now everytime I do something like open a context menu I had to listen to my GPU whining about it. You can actually cap it on Plasma with KWin and you know what happens? It decides to skip frames every now and then even if you set it to the exact framerate of your high refresh rate monitor.
By the way picom and tearfree are not exactly OOB, just saying.
See
. No tearing, correct frame rate, dynamic vsync.
That's with Intel. It works because they care about driver quality.
>muh obscure commandline hack
I'm good thanks.
>I'm good thanks.
It's like that OOTB.
>It works with amd for me.
Interesting. Which card? kernel driver? With KMS?
I'm asking because someone else had problems with his mixed refresh rate setup.
>Cool. I do more things with my GPU than web browsing so I don't use an intel GPU.
Cool, so what. The point is the problem lies with driver quality.
Then I guess people saying AMD GPU drivers are good are lying. In any case it's something that works without any sort of setup on AMD on Wayland.
>Then I guess people saying AMD GPU drivers are good are lying. In any case it's something that works without any sort of setup on AMD on Wayland.
It's the Xorg amdgpu driver is lacking and modesetting is also crippled. The mesa GL/Vulkan and kernel KMS/DRM drivers are fine.
They just don't give a shit any more. Yes, it works on Wayland. On the other hand what doesn't work on Wayland is using the dedicated 2D block on my Intel GPU.
Bro who cares about xorg? Literally every single distro that matters ship GNOME on Wayland.
Xorg is currently 80-90% of the Linux desktop.
source?
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Firefox-Wayland-X11-Stats
I've seen lower numbers like 80% elsewhere, but it's in that ballpark.
Do people SERIOUSLY enable browser telemetry?
>enable
Isn't it enabled by default?
Yes, and Xorg chads are more likely to have the brains to disable it than GNOME babbies.
No firefox asks you to "choose what" you share.
xorg cucks are okay with a keylogger, what makes you think they'll disable the telemetry?
>xorg cucks are okay with a keylogger, what makes you think they'll disable the telemetry?
Xorg chads are tinkerers and are more likely to tweak and change things up. Unlike GNOME chuds who just take what they can get.
As long as Wayland doesn't properly work with NVidia, it doesn't really exist to me.
This just proves my theory. All xorg shills are actually NVIDIA shills in disguise.
>lying blatantly
Frick off homosexual, we don't want you here.
I'm not an "NVidia shills". I just happen to have a laptop with an NVidia GPU.
>This just proves my theory. All xorg shills are actually NVIDIA shills in disguise.
I use Intel GPU and I still shit on Wayland.
It's just RX 550 on the latest kernel. And use of course with kms. amd has used kms for literally years.
You can disable KMS on Polaris and earlier cards. But thanks for clarifying.
Cool. I do more things with my GPU than web browsing so I don't use an intel GPU.
I've tested various combinations of compositing, no compositing, tearfree, and no tearfree and it literally just works.
It works with amd for me.
It's a known issue, so either you're referring to the fact that yes, monitors can be set to different refresh rates or there's something you're not telling us.
I'm gonna make my next app crash on purpose if you don't use gnome and wayland.
why doesn't everything drop support for GTK so we can start having GUIs that don't make your eyes hurt when you use them
>[thing that works] will be dropped and replaced with [thing that doesn't work as well but will in 20 years, maybe]
All Linux news for over a decade now.
I'm still on gtk2 and nobody even uses gtk4 even though it's been out for 2 years. Who cares?
GNOME was a mistake.