He was too much of a pussy to go full Golden path and too vengeful to let himself die when fighting Jamis. So, we end up with billions dead, but its just senseless murder instead of muh 3.5 thousand year keikaku to steer humanity
>He was too much of a pussy to go full Golden path and
The golden path is a retcon invented for the third book >too vengeful to let himself die when fighting Jamis.
Maybe he just didn’t want to die? >So, we end up with billions dead, but its just senseless murder instead of muh 3.5 thousand year keikaku to steer humanity
Per the books own logic the jihad would have happened regardless if Paul lived or died.
Damn, Dune sounds kind of based. I just assumed it'd be Tolkien in space, carried by an uninterested le chosen one plotline like Harry Potter.
Is it worth reading even if I don't enjoy "hard" sci-fi?
If you haven’t read much other sci-fi then you may be able to fool yourself into thinking dune is a 10/10 since you lack a proper frame of reference. However if you have you’ll realize the first three foundation books did what it tries to do much better.
Dune is a chosen one story but Paul inadvertently causes a jihad that kills billions and the book never really justifies why this is predestined to happen beyond just saying “there’s no other way bro” which I consider to be bad writing.
it's not predestined. Paul literally chooses to initiate the Jihad on purpose despite knowing that billions will die just because he couldn't let go of his desire to follow the forms of Kanly and "Honor" (avenge his father).
Herbert foreshadows the whole thing in the first or second chapter when he talks about the Old Duke who loved bullfighting for audiences so much that he would one day end up gored by a bull he was taunting
>it's not predestined.
The only way for Paul to stop the Jihad is to kill everyone he knows and then himself. Other than doing that there is NO WAY for him to stop the jihad, so it may as well be predestined. This is like saying Oedipus could have just killed himself at any time and thus wasn't really predestined to frick his mother. >Paul literally chooses to initiate the Jihad on purpose despite knowing that billions will die just because he couldn't let go of his desire to follow the forms of Kanly and "Honor" (avenge his father).
No. While he obviously wants revenge he starts the jihad because to stop it would mean killing his mother, his Stiech and himself as stated in the middle (page 331 of the putnam edition) of the chapter where they hold Jamis' funeral. Even then he wants to stop it somehow but can't.
Your headcanon is more interesting than what actually happens in the book, which is probably why you've deluded yourself into thinking it's actually what happened.
>beyond just saying “there’s no other way bro”
It's less "there is no other way" and more "if you do this in 100,000 years' time something very bad will happen to humanity." I agree that it's overly deterministic and that this determinism is somewhat contrived in service of the plot.
No. Paul never gave a shit about the Golden Path and it wasn't even mentioned until Children of Dune. There's no way for him to defeat the harkonnens without becoming the fremen messiah and leading them.
thb, would the Jihad have even been a bad thing? The Dune universe seems to be entirely filled with buttholes, with the Atreides more or less being depicted as the only nice people >Oh no, not my imperial families who own torture planets, and secret covens of scheming witches! Don't le murder all of them!
Why?
Well the dune universe is a big place and there are probably plenty of other "good" houses and planets like the atredies/caladan but frank never shows us the good planets the fremen blow up or what the battles of the jihad were like he just tells us how many people paul killed. It's really shitty worldbuilding.
>beyond just saying “there’s no other way bro”
It's less "there is no other way" and more "if you do this in 100,000 years' time something very bad will happen to humanity." I agree that it's overly deterministic and that this determinism is somewhat contrived in service of the plot.
In my head canon every fantasy story is hard-scifi set in the far future. Magic uses the AI nanotech that saturates matter. >NOOO THE WORMS THAT MAKE NO SENSE JUST APPEARED OUT OF THIN AIR AND EAT SAND OK
Gay.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Kys with your technophile bullshit. Dune is sci-fi but that doesn't mean every story with unicorns and dragons is.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Magic uses the AI nanotech that saturates matter.
so fricking trite
I can't help it. You present me with some moronic shit and my mind tries to account for what it actually is. If a character uses occult alchemist imagery and claims to be a wizard that means he's part of the tradition that uses tricks and material components like black powder. You're just dumb and don't care how things work. That's fine, what's the point of some meathead trying to pretend he's the same as us superior stemlords?
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Magic uses the AI nanotech that saturates matter.
so fricking trite
2 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah you're pretty much right
>There are dozens of definitions of what “science fiction” is; few are useful and none is definitive. Variations on the term, such as “speculative fiction,” complicate the discussion more than they clarify it. >Nobody—for good reason—has ever been able to say exactly where “fantasy” begins and ends. It is immensely larger than the current commercial category of books labelled Fantasy. It cannot be limited to “the impossible,” or “magic,” or “the supernatural.” The origins of fantastic literature are lost to sight, because it is worldwide, and if myth and legend are included in it, it long predates history and literacy. It’s permanent, it thrives, because it’s infinitely adaptable. Magic realism was a brilliant modern use of fantasy to record a reality not accessible to the techniques of realism. Science fiction can be seen as a brilliant modern development of fantasy to use the imagination within the parameters of the rationally possible, or at least the plausible. >Genre, a concept which could have served as a useful distinction of various kinds of fiction, has been degraded into a disguise for mere value-judgment. The various “genres” are now mainly commercial product-labels to make life easy for lazy readers, lazy critics, and the Sales Departments of publishers.
The antihero messiah developpement seems cool but to reach those parts it looks like you have to get through too much sci-fi bullshit.
Not a fan of the worldbuilding and the writing from what I've read.
But he isn’t an antihero. Everything he does he does to survive and avenge his fathers death. The space jihad was set in motion by other people who decided to worship him as the voice of god and he only lets it happen because if he refused the fremen would turn on him.
The “paul is le evil” stuff is total pseud nonsense.
>Vengefulness is a sin
literally 90% of what God does in the old testament is out of spite and vengeance
2 months ago
Anonymous
You didn't read the Old Testament.
If I was God I'd have turned the Hebrews into maggot infested dust for demanding meat because they were tired of eating manna from heaven and were complaining that their diet was better when they were slaves in Egypt. Or when they worshipped the golden calf. Or when they decided they wanted didn't want to be ruled by just men like Samuel or any other of God's judges, but instead wanted to be ruled by a king to be like other nations. God gives them the meat, forgave them for blatant pajeetery, and gave them a king.
The Hebrews were stupid, cruel, greedy, and deserved far worse than what they got. This can be summed up in the Book of Jonah. >God tells Jonah to go to Nineveh to tell the Assyrians they will be destroyed for being wicked >Jonah tries to flee to Spain to escape God on a boat >The boat experiences a storm and the sailors find out Jonah is disobeying God >They throw Jonah overboard into the sea >A sea monster swallows Jonah and spits him out on the shore where he started a few days earlier >Jonah realizes he cannot run from God >Jonah goes to Nineveh and preaches >The Assyrians all repent en masse immediately upon learning they had offended God, something the Hebrews never ever do when a prophet tells them they are being degenerates >This includes Nineveh's king discarding his robes, dressing in sack cloth and sitting on a pile of ashes instead of his throne >God forgives the Assyrians since they have shown contrition for their sins >Jonah gets pissed at God that his prophesying didn't become reality, that God didn't kill everybody in the world's biggest city >Jonah starts sulking in the desert and demands to die while God lectures him like an overly forgiving parent that He is concerned for the people of Nineveh
2 months ago
Anonymous
That story just makes God sound like a petty, spiteful homosexual, though. Just like I said.
2 months ago
Anonymous
90% of what Adonai does in the Old Testament is clearly done to further a wider plan. Rules against human sacrifice, not oppressing foreigners, and not returning slaves to their owners should they have escaped from another land, foreshadow some form of major restoration of, and lasting fidelity to, the concept of compassion. God is presented as the one moral actor in a deeply chaotic, immoral world.
Even in passages that are regarded as typically brutal, God makes it clear that He will not conscript Israelites into killing others. And when people are wiped out, it is made clear beforehand that they are being destroyed because they practice illicit acts such as child sacrifice and temple prostitution.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>it's all part of the plan >that's why I gave that 6 year old incurable Leukemia
your God is a gay
2 months ago
Anonymous
Verging on antisemitism here. I'll be watching you
2 months ago
Anonymous
100%. I'm convinced that it was devised purely to create an evil deity.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Unironically it's ok when God does it. We cannot compare ourselves to God.
It's alright. The Scifi/SYFY Miniseries is a fairly faithful adaptation of the book if you'd rather skip the tedium of reading. It even has a sequel series that covers books 2 and 3
Er... implant... a genetic memory? So people would feel upset when they thought of dictators in the future? because they... liked(?)... them previously? Maybe. And... therefore... he had to become a fascist and a giant worm?
Similar to how people are almost universally afraid of the dark, because in humanity's hunter-gatherer days animals that preyed on humans were nocturnal hunters. Leto's goal was to inflict such a level of trauma on humans that tyranny became a core aversion of the human psyche on the same level as fear of the dark.
The longterm goal was to prevent the destruction and genocide of humanity. Leto's method of this was to follow the Golden Path, despite the cruel nature to humanity and the person who would have to walk it. Paul on the other hand was based and thought there had to be a better way to save humanity, and says "frick you" to all the potential paths and chooses to go his own way into an unseen future. Paul is an anime protagonist trapped in a series that refuses to let him be one, and show the universe that you can overcome the impossible.
thb, would the Jihad have even been a bad thing? The Dune universe seems to be entirely filled with buttholes, with the Atreides more or less being depicted as the only nice people >Oh no, not my imperial families who own torture planets, and secret covens of scheming witches! Don't le murder all of them!
Why?
Anything that can't be explained by normal biological evolution is most likely an artificial creation made by humans.
In myth dragons like sandworms usually were human once or at least chimeric in some way. The Germanic myth LOTR stole its dragon from was probably partially talking about the fall of the Roman empire. Caesar was a dwarf king who burned the world to hoard treasure. Sigurd is associated with Arminius but later Germanic generals who established the power centres that became Frankia followed the same pattern so they also became Sigurd.
The European dragon represents something like an ancient grotesque power connected to the human world more than the natural world. If the dragon in your story is just supposed to be a big flying lizard then your story is moronic.
Water is always life. A creature that is harmed by water is death, a terminator type robodemon.
Maybe they were buttholes but at least they didn't kill everyone. I would prefer the buttholes.
A straight forward culling can be more merciful than generations of torture and slavery (which is essentially what every power in the Dune universe was okay with up to this point).
The same argument can be made about any society and you're pure evil, a creature that abhors life, the Biblical adversary.
2 months ago
Anonymous
The Corrino's own a torture planet where they breed their special tenth level space warriors. No, that can't be said of any society.
I don't see the moral quandary with wiping this society clean. It seems pretty abhorrent at every level. Maybe Paul's Jihad will produce something less evil in the long run.
2 months ago
Anonymous
There are people on earth with torture chambers. The logic you're using can be applied to earth to justify wiping out all life. You're so evil that you don't even think, just mindlessly spread death and destruction like a blind worm.
2 months ago
Anonymous
The Corrino's are the ruling family, and they have a whole planet to torture and mind break people with. Every other power in the Dune universe are pretty much implicitly okay with this. And that's not even getting into what the Bene Gesserit or the Tleilaxu get up to.
The Fremen are old fashioned religious extremists. They're actually kind of less bad, all things considered.
2 months ago
Anonymous
The ruling empire has torture chambers in Cuba and that's just the publicly known ones. Every citizen and nation is implicitly okay with this.
You really are the worst. This is always the worst argument. Literally the worst thing that ever occurs to humans.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>The ruling empire has torture chambers in Cuba
I'd be fine with all of those people dying.
2 months ago
Anonymous
It's not your decision and no reason to think you would do any better. Use this braindead argument to justify using your magic worm powers to help Islamic jidahists conquer America. You saved the 500 being tortured and condemned millions to a life of dickless slavery and even more torture. You also set up a precedent for what kind of logic appeals to magic worm morons like you and it's moronic logic that anyone can exploit to direct the magic worm morons at whoever they like.
2 months ago
Anonymous
We see basically no one ever having a good time in the Dune universe though. Flaw of the writing maybe. They're all pretty much slaves who have been melded by inhumane systems into machine people, or people so poor they can barely afford water.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Doesn't matter. >They're all pretty much slaves who have been melded by inhumane systems into machine people, or people so poor they can barely afford water.
Sounds familiar but I hear an argument for building a better world, greening the deserts etc not one for jihad.
Establish himself as Emperor of the Known Universe, of course. Dune's message has always been mixed. Sometimes woke types will say it's a "white savior" message, but actually, it's not. It's an imperialistic realpolitik message. Paul ultimately manipulates his status as messiah to the Fremen to capitalize on his own will to power, destroy his house's longtime rivals the Harkonnens, and dethrone and usurp the reigning emperor's title to establish his own imperial dynasty. The Fremen chumps were just a stepping stone in this whole plot. Pretty based if you ask me
He was too much of a pussy to go full Golden path and too vengeful to let himself die when fighting Jamis. So, we end up with billions dead, but its just senseless murder instead of muh 3.5 thousand year keikaku to steer humanity
>He was too much of a pussy to go full Golden path and
The golden path is a retcon invented for the third book
>too vengeful to let himself die when fighting Jamis.
Maybe he just didn’t want to die?
>So, we end up with billions dead, but its just senseless murder instead of muh 3.5 thousand year keikaku to steer humanity
Per the books own logic the jihad would have happened regardless if Paul lived or died.
If only Mua'dib had access to the real bible, he could have found Christ and prevented everything.
What would the converted Fremen drink for communion wine? I doubt they would have access to grape wine
Damn, Dune sounds kind of based. I just assumed it'd be Tolkien in space, carried by an uninterested le chosen one plotline like Harry Potter.
Is it worth reading even if I don't enjoy "hard" sci-fi?
Dune is not hard sci-fi at all, so you're fine on that end.
If you haven’t read much other sci-fi then you may be able to fool yourself into thinking dune is a 10/10 since you lack a proper frame of reference. However if you have you’ll realize the first three foundation books did what it tries to do much better.
Dune is a chosen one story but Paul inadvertently causes a jihad that kills billions and the book never really justifies why this is predestined to happen beyond just saying “there’s no other way bro” which I consider to be bad writing.
The only sci-fi book I genuinely enjoy a lot is A Voyage to Arcturus. I've read some other sci-fi but none of it really captured my interest
it's not predestined. Paul literally chooses to initiate the Jihad on purpose despite knowing that billions will die just because he couldn't let go of his desire to follow the forms of Kanly and "Honor" (avenge his father).
Herbert foreshadows the whole thing in the first or second chapter when he talks about the Old Duke who loved bullfighting for audiences so much that he would one day end up gored by a bull he was taunting
>it's not predestined.
The only way for Paul to stop the Jihad is to kill everyone he knows and then himself. Other than doing that there is NO WAY for him to stop the jihad, so it may as well be predestined. This is like saying Oedipus could have just killed himself at any time and thus wasn't really predestined to frick his mother.
>Paul literally chooses to initiate the Jihad on purpose despite knowing that billions will die just because he couldn't let go of his desire to follow the forms of Kanly and "Honor" (avenge his father).
No. While he obviously wants revenge he starts the jihad because to stop it would mean killing his mother, his Stiech and himself as stated in the middle (page 331 of the putnam edition) of the chapter where they hold Jamis' funeral. Even then he wants to stop it somehow but can't.
Your headcanon is more interesting than what actually happens in the book, which is probably why you've deluded yourself into thinking it's actually what happened.
No. Paul never gave a shit about the Golden Path and it wasn't even mentioned until Children of Dune. There's no way for him to defeat the harkonnens without becoming the fremen messiah and leading them.
Well the dune universe is a big place and there are probably plenty of other "good" houses and planets like the atredies/caladan but frank never shows us the good planets the fremen blow up or what the battles of the jihad were like he just tells us how many people paul killed. It's really shitty worldbuilding.
>beyond just saying “there’s no other way bro”
It's less "there is no other way" and more "if you do this in 100,000 years' time something very bad will happen to humanity." I agree that it's overly deterministic and that this determinism is somewhat contrived in service of the plot.
It's basically the metaphysical opposite of Tolkien which is probably part of why Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien disliked it with "great intesity"
>knocks Tolkien
>doesn't enjoy hard sci-fi
Female detected
't enjoy hard sci-fi
Hard sci-fi is for homosexuals.
>Hard sci-fi is for homosexuals.
Obviously. It's got the hard in it
In my head canon every fantasy story is hard-scifi set in the far future. Magic uses the AI nanotech that saturates matter.
>NOOO THE WORMS THAT MAKE NO SENSE JUST APPEARED OUT OF THIN AIR AND EAT SAND OK
Gay.
Kys with your technophile bullshit. Dune is sci-fi but that doesn't mean every story with unicorns and dragons is.
I can't help it. You present me with some moronic shit and my mind tries to account for what it actually is. If a character uses occult alchemist imagery and claims to be a wizard that means he's part of the tradition that uses tricks and material components like black powder. You're just dumb and don't care how things work. That's fine, what's the point of some meathead trying to pretend he's the same as us superior stemlords?
>Magic uses the AI nanotech that saturates matter.
so fricking trite
Yeah you're pretty much right
>There are dozens of definitions of what “science fiction” is; few are useful and none is definitive. Variations on the term, such as “speculative fiction,” complicate the discussion more than they clarify it.
>Nobody—for good reason—has ever been able to say exactly where “fantasy” begins and ends. It is immensely larger than the current commercial category of books labelled Fantasy. It cannot be limited to “the impossible,” or “magic,” or “the supernatural.” The origins of fantastic literature are lost to sight, because it is worldwide, and if myth and legend are included in it, it long predates history and literacy. It’s permanent, it thrives, because it’s infinitely adaptable. Magic realism was a brilliant modern use of fantasy to record a reality not accessible to the techniques of realism. Science fiction can be seen as a brilliant modern development of fantasy to use the imagination within the parameters of the rationally possible, or at least the plausible.
>Genre, a concept which could have served as a useful distinction of various kinds of fiction, has been degraded into a disguise for mere value-judgment. The various “genres” are now mainly commercial product-labels to make life easy for lazy readers, lazy critics, and the Sales Departments of publishers.
>finds out there's no point to the story
>first thought is to affect a "based" in order to fit in
Can't tell if baiting or moronic.
He killed trillions in the span of five games.
The antihero messiah developpement seems cool but to reach those parts it looks like you have to get through too much sci-fi bullshit.
Not a fan of the worldbuilding and the writing from what I've read.
But he isn’t an antihero. Everything he does he does to survive and avenge his fathers death. The space jihad was set in motion by other people who decided to worship him as the voice of god and he only lets it happen because if he refused the fremen would turn on him.
The “paul is le evil” stuff is total pseud nonsense.
>avenge
Vengefulness is a sin. He's a villain
>Vengefulness is a sin
literally 90% of what God does in the old testament is out of spite and vengeance
You didn't read the Old Testament.
If I was God I'd have turned the Hebrews into maggot infested dust for demanding meat because they were tired of eating manna from heaven and were complaining that their diet was better when they were slaves in Egypt. Or when they worshipped the golden calf. Or when they decided they wanted didn't want to be ruled by just men like Samuel or any other of God's judges, but instead wanted to be ruled by a king to be like other nations. God gives them the meat, forgave them for blatant pajeetery, and gave them a king.
The Hebrews were stupid, cruel, greedy, and deserved far worse than what they got. This can be summed up in the Book of Jonah.
>God tells Jonah to go to Nineveh to tell the Assyrians they will be destroyed for being wicked
>Jonah tries to flee to Spain to escape God on a boat
>The boat experiences a storm and the sailors find out Jonah is disobeying God
>They throw Jonah overboard into the sea
>A sea monster swallows Jonah and spits him out on the shore where he started a few days earlier
>Jonah realizes he cannot run from God
>Jonah goes to Nineveh and preaches
>The Assyrians all repent en masse immediately upon learning they had offended God, something the Hebrews never ever do when a prophet tells them they are being degenerates
>This includes Nineveh's king discarding his robes, dressing in sack cloth and sitting on a pile of ashes instead of his throne
>God forgives the Assyrians since they have shown contrition for their sins
>Jonah gets pissed at God that his prophesying didn't become reality, that God didn't kill everybody in the world's biggest city
>Jonah starts sulking in the desert and demands to die while God lectures him like an overly forgiving parent that He is concerned for the people of Nineveh
That story just makes God sound like a petty, spiteful homosexual, though. Just like I said.
90% of what Adonai does in the Old Testament is clearly done to further a wider plan. Rules against human sacrifice, not oppressing foreigners, and not returning slaves to their owners should they have escaped from another land, foreshadow some form of major restoration of, and lasting fidelity to, the concept of compassion. God is presented as the one moral actor in a deeply chaotic, immoral world.
Even in passages that are regarded as typically brutal, God makes it clear that He will not conscript Israelites into killing others. And when people are wiped out, it is made clear beforehand that they are being destroyed because they practice illicit acts such as child sacrifice and temple prostitution.
>it's all part of the plan
>that's why I gave that 6 year old incurable Leukemia
your God is a gay
Verging on antisemitism here. I'll be watching you
100%. I'm convinced that it was devised purely to create an evil deity.
Unironically it's ok when God does it. We cannot compare ourselves to God.
That's gay, you're gay.
Ok but the Harkonnens were trying to kill him so him fighting them was in self defense and wasn’t just for revenge
I'd just read the first book, the rest of the series just gets gradually worse
What does he do in the following books?
It's alright. The Scifi/SYFY Miniseries is a fairly faithful adaptation of the book if you'd rather skip the tedium of reading. It even has a sequel series that covers books 2 and 3
to get revenge against everyone
to save the human race
green paradise
Er... implant... a genetic memory? So people would feel upset when they thought of dictators in the future? because they... liked(?)... them previously? Maybe. And... therefore... he had to become a fascist and a giant worm?
Most of that stuff was done by his son. He's the one who started trotting down 'the golden path'
Similar to how people are almost universally afraid of the dark, because in humanity's hunter-gatherer days animals that preyed on humans were nocturnal hunters. Leto's goal was to inflict such a level of trauma on humans that tyranny became a core aversion of the human psyche on the same level as fear of the dark.
The longterm goal was to prevent the destruction and genocide of humanity. Leto's method of this was to follow the Golden Path, despite the cruel nature to humanity and the person who would have to walk it. Paul on the other hand was based and thought there had to be a better way to save humanity, and says "frick you" to all the potential paths and chooses to go his own way into an unseen future. Paul is an anime protagonist trapped in a series that refuses to let him be one, and show the universe that you can overcome the impossible.
>Paul's reaction to the Golden Path
paul muad'sneed lol
thb, would the Jihad have even been a bad thing? The Dune universe seems to be entirely filled with buttholes, with the Atreides more or less being depicted as the only nice people
>Oh no, not my imperial families who own torture planets, and secret covens of scheming witches! Don't le murder all of them!
Why?
Anything that can't be explained by normal biological evolution is most likely an artificial creation made by humans.
In myth dragons like sandworms usually were human once or at least chimeric in some way. The Germanic myth LOTR stole its dragon from was probably partially talking about the fall of the Roman empire. Caesar was a dwarf king who burned the world to hoard treasure. Sigurd is associated with Arminius but later Germanic generals who established the power centres that became Frankia followed the same pattern so they also became Sigurd.
The European dragon represents something like an ancient grotesque power connected to the human world more than the natural world. If the dragon in your story is just supposed to be a big flying lizard then your story is moronic.
Water is always life. A creature that is harmed by water is death, a terminator type robodemon.
Maybe they were buttholes but at least they didn't kill everyone. I would prefer the buttholes.
A straight forward culling can be more merciful than generations of torture and slavery (which is essentially what every power in the Dune universe was okay with up to this point).
The same argument can be made about any society and you're pure evil, a creature that abhors life, the Biblical adversary.
The Corrino's own a torture planet where they breed their special tenth level space warriors. No, that can't be said of any society.
I don't see the moral quandary with wiping this society clean. It seems pretty abhorrent at every level. Maybe Paul's Jihad will produce something less evil in the long run.
There are people on earth with torture chambers. The logic you're using can be applied to earth to justify wiping out all life. You're so evil that you don't even think, just mindlessly spread death and destruction like a blind worm.
The Corrino's are the ruling family, and they have a whole planet to torture and mind break people with. Every other power in the Dune universe are pretty much implicitly okay with this. And that's not even getting into what the Bene Gesserit or the Tleilaxu get up to.
The Fremen are old fashioned religious extremists. They're actually kind of less bad, all things considered.
The ruling empire has torture chambers in Cuba and that's just the publicly known ones. Every citizen and nation is implicitly okay with this.
You really are the worst. This is always the worst argument. Literally the worst thing that ever occurs to humans.
>The ruling empire has torture chambers in Cuba
I'd be fine with all of those people dying.
It's not your decision and no reason to think you would do any better. Use this braindead argument to justify using your magic worm powers to help Islamic jidahists conquer America. You saved the 500 being tortured and condemned millions to a life of dickless slavery and even more torture. You also set up a precedent for what kind of logic appeals to magic worm morons like you and it's moronic logic that anyone can exploit to direct the magic worm morons at whoever they like.
We see basically no one ever having a good time in the Dune universe though. Flaw of the writing maybe. They're all pretty much slaves who have been melded by inhumane systems into machine people, or people so poor they can barely afford water.
Doesn't matter.
>They're all pretty much slaves who have been melded by inhumane systems into machine people, or people so poor they can barely afford water.
Sounds familiar but I hear an argument for building a better world, greening the deserts etc not one for jihad.
Why is his nose hair like that?
Establish himself as Emperor of the Known Universe, of course. Dune's message has always been mixed. Sometimes woke types will say it's a "white savior" message, but actually, it's not. It's an imperialistic realpolitik message. Paul ultimately manipulates his status as messiah to the Fremen to capitalize on his own will to power, destroy his house's longtime rivals the Harkonnens, and dethrone and usurp the reigning emperor's title to establish his own imperial dynasty. The Fremen chumps were just a stepping stone in this whole plot. Pretty based if you ask me
The fremen are happy chumps who get exactly what they wanted and it destroys them
Maybe imperialism is the right way forward after all. Maybe the universe needs to be governed by a single World Government
To survive