How did ancient tribes, like the Vandals, conquer faraway lands with large movements in population without the benefit of maps or local knowledge of the areas they were going to?
How did ancient tribes, like the Vandals, conquer faraway lands with large movements in population without the benefit of maps or local knowledge of t...
did you hear about this thing called the roman empire that many of them had worked for as contractors, or also as slaves
This is probably important to note as well, it's not like they had absolutely no local knowledge of those areas, like no Vandals had any experience or knowledge of Sardinia or Tunisia.
Because local tribes helped them against the romans
After they won against romans, the locals tribes started to BTFO them, when the byzzies came, they only inflicted the final blow
>with large movements in population
Most historians put the number of vandals who reached Africa at 20-25k
Helped them is an understatement.
The bulk of the Vandal roman raid against Rome itself was mostly locals
>Most historians put the number of vandals who reached Africa at 20-25k
numbers pulled out of ass
What do you mean? That's what academics specialized in Vandals say usually, 15k-25k
historian demise medieval BS numbers usually
>Because local tribes helped them against the romans
>The bulk of the Vandal roman raid against Rome itself was mostly locals
>>The bulk of the Vandal roman raid against Rome itself was mostly locals
source : Henri Leclercq, L'Afrique chrétienne, vol. 2, V. Lecoffre, 1904, 380 p. (lire en ligne [archive]), p. 373.
"Geiserich frappe sans cesse ses sujets romains et en 455 il a un contingent berbère considérable à son service dans l'expédition de Rome."
some random book isn't some solid source
most historians disagree, the vandals conquered carthage in 439, the sack of rome was only 16 years later
besides the quote says some vague "considerable"(that could mean anything, it could mean 5%), not "most"
It's a book from this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Leclercq
>"considerable"(that could mean anything, it could mean 5%)
no
Here are the primary sources :
>raid sur Rome, mais celle-ci est attestée par plusieurs autres sources, qui font aussi intervenir les tribus pour la première fois à cette occasion dans l’histoire vandale. Ainsi les Fasti Vindobonenses posteriores : Mauri Romam venerunt et pugnaverunt cum Wandalis3 ; et de même Paul Diacre : continuo advectus ex Africa navibus adest Geisericus cum validissimo suae gentis exercitu fultus insuper praesidio Maurorum4. Victor de Vita, surtout, décrit le partage du butin qui suivit, une fois les pillards rentrés en Afrique : Quand cette multitude de prisonniers atteignit le rivage africain, les Vandales et les Maures se les partagèrent, et, selon la coutume des barbares, ils séparèrent les maris des épouses, et les enfants de leurs parents5. L’opération dut paraître fructueuse puisque la collaboration ainsi établie se renouvela dans les années suivantes aux dépens, comme l’indique Procope, d’autres régions d’Italie et de Sicile6. Paul Diacre cite à cette occasion une expédition terrible sur la Campanie (relicta itaque urbe [Rome], per Campaniam sese Wandali Maurique effundentes cuncta ferro flammisque consumunt...7), qui entraîna notamment la mise à sac de Capoue, Nole, et Naples. Vers 461, après la mort de Majorien, les attaques se poursuivirent encore aux dires de Priscos : Comme Genséric ne respectait plus le traité qu’il avait fait avec Majorien, il envoya une troupe de Vandales et de Maures ravager l’Italie et la Sicile8... Bien que souvent oubliés des études modernes sur la fin de l’Empire d’Occident, les Maures jouèrent ainsi un rôle important dans la terreur qui s’abattit sur l’Italie à partir de 455.
>raid sur Rome, mais celle-ci est attestée par plusieurs autres sources, qui font aussi intervenir les tribus pour la première fois à cette occasion dans l’histoire vandale. Ainsi les Fasti Vindobonenses posteriores : Mauri Romam venerunt et pugnaverunt cum Wandalis3 ; et de même Paul Diacre : continuo advectus ex Africa navibus adest Geisericus cum validissimo suae gentis exercitu fultus insuper praesidio Maurorum4. Victor de Vita, surtout, décrit le partage du butin qui suivit, une fois les pillards rentrés en Afrique : Quand cette multitude de prisonniers atteignit le rivage africain, les Vandales et les Maures se les partagèrent, et, selon la coutume des barbares, ils séparèrent les maris des épouses, et les enfants de leurs parents5. L’opération dut paraître fructueuse puisque la collaboration ainsi établie se renouvela dans les années suivantes aux dépens, comme l’indique Procope, d’autres régions d’Italie et de Sicile6. Paul Diacre cite à cette occasion une expédition terrible sur la Campanie (relicta itaque urbe [Rome], per Campaniam sese Wandali Maurique effundentes cuncta ferro flammisque consumunt...7), qui entraîna notamment la mise à sac de Capoue, Nole, et Naples. Vers 461, après la mort de Majorien, les attaques se poursuivirent encore aux dires de Priscos : Comme Genséric ne respectait plus le traité qu’il avait fait avec Majorien, il envoya une troupe de Vandales et de Maures ravager l’Italie et la Sicile8... Bien que souvent oubliés des études modernes sur la fin de l’Empire d’Occident, les Maures jouèrent ainsi un rôle important dans la terreur qui s’abattit sur l’Italie à partir de 455.
real that quote better
never in this quite it says "majority", or "most", or anything even remotely similar, it only says that there could be some moors among the vandals
historians agree that it's mostly vandals to sack rome in 455
typical berber copers
>hey some moorish slaves from the provinces conquered 10 years prior could have helped the germanics
berbertroons: a so it was mostly moors got it
watch how he posts another quote that says nothing about "majority" or "most" but simply mentions the presence of some moorish slave
>germanics
vandals were slavic
sure thing, slavBlack person.
thank you for agreeing with me
>continuo advectus ex Africa navibus adest Geisericus cum validissimo suae gentis exercitu fultus insuper praesidio Maurorum.
Geisericus, brought immediately from Africa in ships, is here with the most powerful army of his nation, supported in addition by a garrison of Moors
this is the only direct latin quote to mention proporions, so just a garrison of moors to support the bulk of vandal troops
it was probably 96% vandal and 4% moorish from the garrison in the newly conquered provinces in north africa
Genetics say the opposite.
genetics of who? lazio italians seem to be almost half middle eastern, but not much not north african if at all, they have some germanic male admixture, but probably not because of the vandals, i doubt the vandal sack of rome was significant genetically either way
The genetics of 20 people does not somehow represent tens of thousands of people let alone what they did.
>Wandali Maurique effundentes cuncta ferro flammisque consumunt.
Vandals and Moors, it doesn't say who the most numerous were at all, Pierre
Even this map is exagerated
They never controlled the coast on of modern day algeria
They only controlled tunisia
Carthage hired mostly mercenaries and almost beat Rome.
Just goes to show you don't need a single big race to win.
just imagine how much better that whole region would be if there wasn't an arab expansion.
The arab expansion barely changed anything in this region
>The arab expansion barely changed anything in this region
It literally cut Europeans out of vital trade for hundreds of years.
The Arab expansion utterly changed the face of North Africa wiping out all the Black locals replacing it with a rapebaby race of half Black folks known as Berbers.
the locals simply stopped giving a frick