they will think chocolate did anything worth being saved.
The fact that so many books still name Harry Potter "the greatest or most significant or most influential" children's series ever only tells you how far kid's writing still is from becoming a serious art. Drama critics have long recognized that the greatest drama writers of all times are Tolstoy or Goethe, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Romance critics rank the highly controversial Harlequin over classic writers who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Children's book critics are still blinded by commercial success: Harry Potter sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Romance critics grow up reading a lot of romance books of the past, drama critics grow up reading a lot of drama books of the past. Children's book critics are often totally ignorant of the children's books of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that JK Rowling did anything worth of being saved.
Write it as literary fiction that just happens to take place in a secondary setting. I'm planning a novel right now and that's basically the rule I'm going to stick by. No fireball shooting wizards or giant swords. Write it as a low fantasy focused on characters and prose, and then amplify the fantasy if necessary later on.
1.) No one cares about the deep lore of your setting. Keep the plot as straightforward as possible. If it necessitates multiple huge exposition dumps for readers to understand what's going on, it drags hard. But equally, you must give readers the sense that there is deep lore. You don't want to give the impression that you're constructing a barebones world on the fly to accommodate your story. You want the story to take place in a fully realized world. The significance of lore details is that they're there, not that they're ever exceptionally relevant to the plot.
2.) You're not making a video game. You don't need a magic system >but won't having a lack of a defined magic system erase all tension?
only if you yourself use your lack of a magic system to erase tension. Precedent suffices for hard and fast rules here. If you never show a wizard using bullshit OP cheat powers, then the reader will never anticipate that wizards can and will use bullshit OP cheat powers.
3.) The world doesn't need to be at stake for people to care. In fact, that scale can work against you if you ever want to focus on interpersonal drama.
>2.) You're not making a video game. You don't need a magic system >>but won't having a lack of a defined magic system erase all tension?
Yeah, this is a meme. I remember a few years back when I started "officially" getting into fantasy and took that hard/soft magic thing to heart, only to quickly realize it ultimately doesn't matter and in fact, if you go too autistically "hard" it begins to read like a video game. Using the magic to evoke feelings of wonder, mystery or tension is more than enough, imo, and doesn't have to have these strict rules to feel right.
>No one cares about the deep lore of your setting. Keep the plot as straightforward as possible. If it necessitates multiple huge exposition dumps for readers to understand what's going on, it drags hard.
Malazan.jpg
Actually the best advice in the thread. Everything's themes and vibes with those two instead of muh plotlines and muh worldbuilding, which is why adults can actually enjoy them.
You have to read a lot of fantasy from multiple cultures. You're gonna have to read both inside and outside the typical fantasy stuff too.
I think the best advice in general is that all male characters are feminine in some way, and all female characters are masculine in some way. This prevents you from writing characters that are shitty stereotypes. This can mean anything from a warrior who cooks for his friends every night, a politician who wears makeup, a woman who carries a revolver up her dress, or an 7 foot tall orc woman who beats her opponents to death and than makes cookies. These are random examples, but use in subtle ways it helps your characters stand out and can serve as a starting base for future developments.
Connected to this, your main characters should have some kind of quirk toward them. A recent example of this is from Dungeon Meshi (anime/manga, kill me), the main character switches from stepping up to the plate and being a heroic badass to doing the most idiotic and autistic things at times, sometimes both at the same time. The fact he shows such bravery despite being pretty much an underdog who has to think on his feet and often like the monsters and enemies he's fighting from time to time easily makes him one of my favorite characters.
You also want an interesting setting. Book of the New Sun has a setting filled with mystery that explores human society so far into the future that history is no longer worth record-keeping, thousands if not millions of ancient societies and their technology, both primitive and advanced, is lost or misused, or sometimes kept precious, and it blends fantasy, post apocalypse, and sci-fi, while also being relatively grounded in reality despite how insane the setting is when you pull it back. This also makes it actually worth reading, as that's a pretty good.
For plot, your antagonists and protagonists should be against each other, but you don't have to go with an evil empire vs some underdogs or a good empire, you can really switch things up, or even add in third parties (An example from a show I'm watching has the protagonists, framed for murder, going after the antagonist, the true murderer, while the police are looking into both of them). Personally, I read a lot of books and manga that are fantasy, sci-fi, pr blend the two together. (GOOD) Manga is actually a really good way to get instant inspiration from fantasy, as you'll be exploring how a completely different culture approaches the fantasy genre. Light novels, etc, also apply too.
True advice.
https://i.imgur.com/m7Yk8WD.jpeg
Unironically write like a woman. Just don't be a moron. Women write good lit because they focus on people rather than on MUH WORLDBUILDING, MUH MAGICK SYSTEMS, MUH WORLD-ENDING THREAT.
Stacy blew Beccy's boyfriend, so now she's gonna seethe and embark on an epic journey to get back on Stacy by sucking off her crush etc. Now translate that into manly terms like:
>GUNNLAUGS ORMSTUNGE, IS A PROUD THUG WHO FELT SLIGHTLY INSECURE WHEN BIG DICK HRAFN WALKED INTO AND WANTED TO PROVE TO THE LOCAL LORD THAT HE HAS SUPERIOR POETIC SKILLZ >Gunnlaugh does slightly better in the poetical-rap-battle, so local lord picks him as his propaganda advisor >Hrafn seethe's so hard he goes back to Iceland and steals his gurl and then fricks her, cucking the pride of Gunnlaugh-the-proud-thug in the process >Naturally he goes back to Iceland and they have a duel >Then they have another duel >Then both die >The girl gets plowed by 3rd dude, but she's unhappy because he's not a chad like Gunnlaug or Hrafn, so she dies of grief. >The end
Then just focus on things like anger, honor, perspectives etc and flesh out your characters, add a bit of symbolism and barely-conceled-occultism and you're set. It really is THAT SIMPLE. We just live in a world of Massa Damnata, where aether is being destroyed by excessive amount of clay.
Good advice too.
>2.) You're not making a video game. You don't need a magic system >>but won't having a lack of a defined magic system erase all tension?
Yeah, this is a meme. I remember a few years back when I started "officially" getting into fantasy and took that hard/soft magic thing to heart, only to quickly realize it ultimately doesn't matter and in fact, if you go too autistically "hard" it begins to read like a video game. Using the magic to evoke feelings of wonder, mystery or tension is more than enough, imo, and doesn't have to have these strict rules to feel right.
You should have a generally idea of what make is capable of in your setting and probably establish some rules here and there so you're not doing complete asspulls, but you don't need to detail your magic system and world that much, and often I prefer settings that just throw in shit and never explain it and it having no relevance at all. adds mystery
Unironically write like a woman. Just don't be a moron. Women write good lit because they focus on people rather than on MUH WORLDBUILDING, MUH MAGICK SYSTEMS, MUH WORLD-ENDING THREAT.
Stacy blew Beccy's boyfriend, so now she's gonna seethe and embark on an epic journey to get back on Stacy by sucking off her crush etc. Now translate that into manly terms like:
>GUNNLAUGS ORMSTUNGE, IS A PROUD THUG WHO FELT SLIGHTLY INSECURE WHEN BIG DICK HRAFN WALKED INTO AND WANTED TO PROVE TO THE LOCAL LORD THAT HE HAS SUPERIOR POETIC SKILLZ >Gunnlaugh does slightly better in the poetical-rap-battle, so local lord picks him as his propaganda advisor >Hrafn seethe's so hard he goes back to Iceland and steals his gurl and then fricks her, cucking the pride of Gunnlaugh-the-proud-thug in the process >Naturally he goes back to Iceland and they have a duel >Then they have another duel >Then both die >The girl gets plowed by 3rd dude, but she's unhappy because he's not a chad like Gunnlaug or Hrafn, so she dies of grief. >The end
Then just focus on things like anger, honor, perspectives etc and flesh out your characters, add a bit of symbolism and barely-conceled-occultism and you're set. It really is THAT SIMPLE. We just live in a world of Massa Damnata, where aether is being destroyed by excessive amount of clay.
Unironically write like a woman. Just don't be a moron. Women write good lit because they focus on people rather than on MUH WORLDBUILDING, MUH MAGICK SYSTEMS, MUH WORLD-ENDING THREAT.
Stacy blew Beccy's boyfriend, so now she's gonna seethe and embark on an epic journey to get back on Stacy by sucking off her crush etc. Now translate that into manly terms like:
>GUNNLAUGS ORMSTUNGE, IS A PROUD THUG WHO FELT SLIGHTLY INSECURE WHEN BIG DICK HRAFN WALKED INTO AND WANTED TO PROVE TO THE LOCAL LORD THAT HE HAS SUPERIOR POETIC SKILLZ >Gunnlaugh does slightly better in the poetical-rap-battle, so local lord picks him as his propaganda advisor >Hrafn seethe's so hard he goes back to Iceland and steals his gurl and then fricks her, cucking the pride of Gunnlaugh-the-proud-thug in the process >Naturally he goes back to Iceland and they have a duel >Then they have another duel >Then both die >The girl gets plowed by 3rd dude, but she's unhappy because he's not a chad like Gunnlaug or Hrafn, so she dies of grief. >The end
Then just focus on things like anger, honor, perspectives etc and flesh out your characters, add a bit of symbolism and barely-conceled-occultism and you're set. It really is THAT SIMPLE. We just live in a world of Massa Damnata, where aether is being destroyed by excessive amount of clay.
Stick to the Heros Journey - avoid "subverting expectations" unless the subversion actually makes the story more interesting.
Embrace the fantasy - don't try to minimise magic or fantastical elements, or tie them down to a "system".
World build as you need to - Too much world building will tie your narrative down because you'll trip up the story trying not to violate minor elements of the canon.
«NOT SUCKING», AND WRITING «FANTASY», ARE MUTUALLY ANTITHETICAL ACTS.
Shakespeare, Dante, and Homer wrote fantasy.
NO, THEY DID NOT.
Is the tempest not fantasy?
NO.
having a trip is same as sucking my dick
SHUT THE FRICK UP SATANIC TRIPTROON
a-fricking-men
they will think chocolate did anything worth being saved.
The fact that so many books still name Harry Potter "the greatest or most significant or most influential" children's series ever only tells you how far kid's writing still is from becoming a serious art. Drama critics have long recognized that the greatest drama writers of all times are Tolstoy or Goethe, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Romance critics rank the highly controversial Harlequin over classic writers who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Children's book critics are still blinded by commercial success: Harry Potter sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Romance critics grow up reading a lot of romance books of the past, drama critics grow up reading a lot of drama books of the past. Children's book critics are often totally ignorant of the children's books of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that JK Rowling did anything worth of being saved.
Write it as literary fiction that just happens to take place in a secondary setting. I'm planning a novel right now and that's basically the rule I'm going to stick by. No fireball shooting wizards or giant swords. Write it as a low fantasy focused on characters and prose, and then amplify the fantasy if necessary later on.
just write the kind of fantasy you want to read and don't worry about it sucking
1.) No one cares about the deep lore of your setting. Keep the plot as straightforward as possible. If it necessitates multiple huge exposition dumps for readers to understand what's going on, it drags hard. But equally, you must give readers the sense that there is deep lore. You don't want to give the impression that you're constructing a barebones world on the fly to accommodate your story. You want the story to take place in a fully realized world. The significance of lore details is that they're there, not that they're ever exceptionally relevant to the plot.
2.) You're not making a video game. You don't need a magic system
>but won't having a lack of a defined magic system erase all tension?
only if you yourself use your lack of a magic system to erase tension. Precedent suffices for hard and fast rules here. If you never show a wizard using bullshit OP cheat powers, then the reader will never anticipate that wizards can and will use bullshit OP cheat powers.
3.) The world doesn't need to be at stake for people to care. In fact, that scale can work against you if you ever want to focus on interpersonal drama.
>2.) You're not making a video game. You don't need a magic system
>>but won't having a lack of a defined magic system erase all tension?
Yeah, this is a meme. I remember a few years back when I started "officially" getting into fantasy and took that hard/soft magic thing to heart, only to quickly realize it ultimately doesn't matter and in fact, if you go too autistically "hard" it begins to read like a video game. Using the magic to evoke feelings of wonder, mystery or tension is more than enough, imo, and doesn't have to have these strict rules to feel right.
this. lotr handled magic beautifully. very biblical in its disposition
>No one cares about the deep lore of your setting. Keep the plot as straightforward as possible. If it necessitates multiple huge exposition dumps for readers to understand what's going on, it drags hard.
Malazan.jpg
Just copy whatever Wolfe and Vance wrote.
Actually the best advice in the thread. Everything's themes and vibes with those two instead of muh plotlines and muh worldbuilding, which is why adults can actually enjoy them.
You have to read a lot of fantasy from multiple cultures. You're gonna have to read both inside and outside the typical fantasy stuff too.
I think the best advice in general is that all male characters are feminine in some way, and all female characters are masculine in some way. This prevents you from writing characters that are shitty stereotypes. This can mean anything from a warrior who cooks for his friends every night, a politician who wears makeup, a woman who carries a revolver up her dress, or an 7 foot tall orc woman who beats her opponents to death and than makes cookies. These are random examples, but use in subtle ways it helps your characters stand out and can serve as a starting base for future developments.
Connected to this, your main characters should have some kind of quirk toward them. A recent example of this is from Dungeon Meshi (anime/manga, kill me), the main character switches from stepping up to the plate and being a heroic badass to doing the most idiotic and autistic things at times, sometimes both at the same time. The fact he shows such bravery despite being pretty much an underdog who has to think on his feet and often like the monsters and enemies he's fighting from time to time easily makes him one of my favorite characters.
You also want an interesting setting. Book of the New Sun has a setting filled with mystery that explores human society so far into the future that history is no longer worth record-keeping, thousands if not millions of ancient societies and their technology, both primitive and advanced, is lost or misused, or sometimes kept precious, and it blends fantasy, post apocalypse, and sci-fi, while also being relatively grounded in reality despite how insane the setting is when you pull it back. This also makes it actually worth reading, as that's a pretty good.
For plot, your antagonists and protagonists should be against each other, but you don't have to go with an evil empire vs some underdogs or a good empire, you can really switch things up, or even add in third parties (An example from a show I'm watching has the protagonists, framed for murder, going after the antagonist, the true murderer, while the police are looking into both of them). Personally, I read a lot of books and manga that are fantasy, sci-fi, pr blend the two together. (GOOD) Manga is actually a really good way to get instant inspiration from fantasy, as you'll be exploring how a completely different culture approaches the fantasy genre. Light novels, etc, also apply too.
True advice.
Good advice too.
You should have a generally idea of what make is capable of in your setting and probably establish some rules here and there so you're not doing complete asspulls, but you don't need to detail your magic system and world that much, and often I prefer settings that just throw in shit and never explain it and it having no relevance at all. adds mystery
Good advice thank you anons
Unironically write like a woman. Just don't be a moron. Women write good lit because they focus on people rather than on MUH WORLDBUILDING, MUH MAGICK SYSTEMS, MUH WORLD-ENDING THREAT.
Stacy blew Beccy's boyfriend, so now she's gonna seethe and embark on an epic journey to get back on Stacy by sucking off her crush etc. Now translate that into manly terms like:
>GUNNLAUGS ORMSTUNGE, IS A PROUD THUG WHO FELT SLIGHTLY INSECURE WHEN BIG DICK HRAFN WALKED INTO AND WANTED TO PROVE TO THE LOCAL LORD THAT HE HAS SUPERIOR POETIC SKILLZ
>Gunnlaugh does slightly better in the poetical-rap-battle, so local lord picks him as his propaganda advisor
>Hrafn seethe's so hard he goes back to Iceland and steals his gurl and then fricks her, cucking the pride of Gunnlaugh-the-proud-thug in the process
>Naturally he goes back to Iceland and they have a duel
>Then they have another duel
>Then both die
>The girl gets plowed by 3rd dude, but she's unhappy because he's not a chad like Gunnlaug or Hrafn, so she dies of grief.
>The end
Then just focus on things like anger, honor, perspectives etc and flesh out your characters, add a bit of symbolism and barely-conceled-occultism and you're set. It really is THAT SIMPLE. We just live in a world of Massa Damnata, where aether is being destroyed by excessive amount of clay.
Are you a woman?
What is a woman?
a miserable little pile of secrets
A wench
Write a greek tragedy and then add some magic or some shit
understand the monomyth
Yeah... don't take advice from people who haven't published anything.
Stick to the Heros Journey - avoid "subverting expectations" unless the subversion actually makes the story more interesting.
Embrace the fantasy - don't try to minimise magic or fantastical elements, or tie them down to a "system".
World build as you need to - Too much world building will tie your narrative down because you'll trip up the story trying not to violate minor elements of the canon.