How does ANYONE ever actually bring themselves to actually do something like write a book?
We live in a world that is completely and thoroughly creatively bankrupt there are no truly "new" ideas and there never will be, it's all been done a trillion times over and many will have done it better than you could ever possibly dream of doing yourself, there is truly nothing new under the sun and you can't even create anything that doesn't even utilize a single well-established trope. Remember: "everything that is seemingly new is really merely well-forgotten old"...
Why fricking BOTHER? How do you wannabe creative types even cope with this shit? Your voice is NOT unique and never will be...
Why even try?
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I like the e-girl phenomenon.
Women have been showing themselves naked forever, then Belle Delphine comes along and teases and teases and becomes #1. Now she shows all but it's about the game.
She marketed herself best. Put in the work, such that it is, of getting the best angles on her cute face and whatever other body part she wanted to show off in the right outfit.
It's all about the marketing.
I don't know how you market a book though. Another girl who's insanely hot will come along and dethrone Belle soon enough because time passes and that's not fair to women. I like Vladislava.
>marketed
have a nice day
I'm not typing out, "She was the e-girl who did what e-girls do best, which is... ... ..."
Go frick yourself.
Please stick a shotgun in tour mouth and have a nice day you fricking imbecile. You are a fricking wienersucker. You're talking about literal prostitutes when you say "marketing". I hope that you get a tumor every time you use that stupid fricking meme word.
>You're talking about literal prostitutes when you say "marketing"
He's not wrong tho.I don't understand why you are so angry
Why?
>Naked woman
>Marketing
israelite detected. The whole "gamer girl bathwater" thing is one of the most disgusting trends in recent memory.
have a nice day.
Christ is King.
There are people in this world who have (had) her bathwater and those who don't.
You don't. And you would totally get off to that video of her dildoing herself.
Explain why she's a top money-maker but some woman who's been showing her extreme insides since day 1 isn't.
That isn't the point.
Belle Delphine isn't even "hot"
she didn't market herself you braindead shitbird
Her popularity and $ started going down.
So she's doing what used up Hollywood actresses and singers do:
Porn.
Using multiple platforms to promote your material is marketing. Tiktok, twitter, onlyfans, instagram, snapchat, private snapchat, whatever else kids use these days.
I would agree that she blew her load too early. I think you can tease for way longer. At the very least don't start with fricking anal porn, kek.
Belle and her boyfriend definitely have had a thought out plan to attack each coomer demographic of degenerates
she got the usual simps, gamer simps, BDSM simps, HC simps and now she is getting the dumbfrick american, Black person and ethnic stans of interracial porn simps without even doing porn
She got hundreds of thousands of fans without getting fully naked and now she is getting fans without shooting porn
>I like the e-girl phenomenon.
why?
I like pretty girls and I like seeing how the ones on top rise above the rest. Because there are so damn many naked women, it just makes me wonder. And I think I found a pattern. Kiwi Sunset kind of did it too. Her deal was her ass, milky skin, eye makeup, and all sorts of outfits. Lots of breasts are great, it takes a lot to frick up breasts, but I think the reason she didn't show hers is because they are a bit odd, nothing that would turn you off, but they're not pink and, well, it's just not optimal.
Tell that to F Gardner. He came up with a new twist nobody ever thought of before with pic related
>new twist
Bullshit. I'm still not reading your homosexual meme book, I started to but dropped it after he mentioned how the main character kid had green eyes about a dozen times in the first three pages read like amateur trash written by a child.
Kek. CotC is way overmemed here. But he’s sorta right. I can’t say I’ve seen the same twist executed before.
What's the twist? Just tell me, I'm not going to read it.
It's like a book inside of a book inside of the real world when people are doing a ritual. Pretty cool ngl
I genuinely hope you all die a painful death. Fricking spammers.
Even this just seems like another shill post
>there is truly nothing new under the sun and you can't even create anything that doesn't even utilize a single well-established trope
Time is a flat circle but your experiences are unique. Many people may have similar experiences as you, want to have those experiences, or even want to live vicariously through the characters you create. Ignoring fiction, there's a near infinite treasure trove of life events occurring every day. Most people aren't equipped with the ability to eloquently convey their ideas, experiences or stories.
>We live in a world that is completely and thoroughly creatively bankrupt
you're projecting
No. Mankind is creatively bankrupt.
more projecting
No
I just write whatever I think is interesting. If people like it, great. If not, who gives a frick?
I think the answer is writing with a purpose. You must craft something adequate for the time you are living in and the people that live at present. Even if everything has already happened, the art lies in writing the same old stories for a new context, with new words and for different sensitivities. If you want to create a great novel to rival authors from the times when reading was mainstream, you are wasting your time. One should be content with sharing something true and alive.
Also, no book was ever original, since people were telling stories orally before things could be taken down, so there's that. Your favorite writer was also unoriginal.
Its bottom of finance and well being that makes people write.
>How does ANYONE ever actually bring themselves to actually do something like write a book?
We don't write.
What else are you going to do?
Science? Whatever you could possibly discover will necessarily be found by someone else. This is even more pointless than art, where there is at least a small chance of creating something unique.
Normal job? Muh wifenkids? Even worse case. Replaceable cog.
Business/practical inventions? Same problems as science, though to a slightly lesser degree.
Art is screaming into the void, but anything else is sitting quietly in silence. If you don’t try to say your piece at least once you may as well have never existed at all.
projecting the post
>there are no truly "new" ideas and there never will be
This is a kids perspective where the whole world seems designed and perfected, and so on, due to lack of real experience with things; I remember thinking it myself. Probably people have been saying this since the wheel was invented.
>How does ANYONE ever actually bring themselves to actually do something like write a book?
>Why fricking BOTHER?
shhoooooooot I've written tons of stuff, it's not so much a hobby as a form of self-therapy. Ideally the inventor or writer or theorist doesn't set out to 'be' 'a writer', they just are clever and their observations and theories are often correct.
Probably the most valuable literature is unbiased contemporary accounts of things. This always has value in the future when people wonder what the frick was happening "back then" and the local cultural narratives that silence people in our time are long forgotten. That writer then owns their entire world posthumously, so to speak. Like, if I discovered a few very useful things and happened to put them into some books and then casually mentioned that "people these days are doing XYZ (e.g. having sex with their house dogs)", the society in the future would be forced to take this observation seriously.
What do you mean
1984 has only been written like 65 years ago and it's pretty original
Imagine that Orwell didn't write it, then the idea still wouldn't be exhausted and someone else could write about it.
I know that in the case of 1984 it's been written already, but there are infinitely many concepts that are open to write about. There are many 1984s that no one thought about yet
good example:
1984 was one take out of an infinite number of takes on a subject. Within the confines of its own story, even, it had one path, like one route through a maze, there were new paths and thus new stories that could've been written depending on what Orwell chose to have happen in one scene to next.
Yes but George Orwell was controlled opposition and a Marxist globohomosexual shill.
meds
but it's true
Nowadays? As a cope, distraction, or an indulgence mostly. The reason modern books are bad isn’t because there’s no creativity. It’s because the creativity is concentrated on materialistic coomer and wish fulfillment stuff. If you tried to right a low brow pornographic light novel, you’d find the words fly from your fingertips to the page with no effort at all.
>It’s because the creativity is concentrated on materialistic coomer and wish fulfillment stuff.
And anything outside of that is usually "own the libs" cuckservatism bullshit. There's nothing of substance anymore. Thank God for Project Gutenberg.
>wish fulfillment stuff.
I'm genuinely amazed that no white author has figured out to get a black person to pretend to be the author of whatever they write, to get past the filters in the west. Clearly all of the people involved in publishing and production are dying for this to happen, they'd even find out and play along if they found out, because they want it to happen so badly.
You could compare this to western cinema or tv shows; it's not that nobody can write or come up with stories, it's that there's so many layers of profiteering going on in the publishing/production that nothing but garbage makes it through the boardroom. And there are stories about that exact thing since the 1970's, showing that it's nothing new. Terminator didn't exist when that story was written.
Honestly I think this comes from solipsism - or ... well, no, it's based on observation of things in the world, but it's not factoring in the whole platos cave dynamic, where 'the world' is a controlled medium you're shown.
No, I got it: it's not solipsism and it's not necessarily platos cave: people aren't coming to this position based on actual 'new things' they're considering it in terms of massive massive popularity 'of' new things. As if "the whole world" will be amazed by some new book, or film, or something. Is this it?
I mean, I have a million views on my blog. My readership is already higher than any of my favorite authors. Does this effect anything? Nope. Is it better because of it? Nope. Is it worse because of it? Nope.
>How does ANYONE ever actually bring themselves to actually do something like write a book?
The first chapter struggled against the inside of my head until I wrote it, and once the ball got rolling, it never stopped.
>there are no truly "new" ideas and there never will be
But my exact book wasn't written before I wrote it.
>it's all been done a trillion times over and many will have done it better than you could ever possibly dream of doing yourself
Sure, but nobody has done it exactly the way I want it to be done.
>you can't even create anything that doesn't even utilize a single well-established trope
Tropes serve a purpose and are not something to shy away from.
>Why fricking BOTHER?
Because I want to, anon. Writing gives me pleasure and satisfaction just as much as reading (if not more).
>Your voice is NOT unique and never will be
This is the only point of yours I'd disagree with. It's unique because it's mine, and I like it. I don't care if someone else has a similar voice to mine.
Even if my book is trash and nobody ever reads it, and no publisher ever picks it up, I'll still be happy I wrote it, and it'd still have been worth it. Conversely, if it gets published and at least one person (okay, okay, make it 100 people, vainglory and so on) legitimately enjoy it, I would be even happier.
I doubt I'll ever become a household name, but I don't care enough for that anyway. Am I an egotistical megalomaniac or narcissist? Maybe. Maybe I'm delusional in thinking that my book is worth reading. But I like it, so it's fine.
And I get to have achieved something that some people will only sigh wistfully about, and never actually attempt. 😉
>How does ANYONE ever actually bring themselves to actually do something like write a book?
Have you seen the state of IQfy?
I don't get why anyone would want to write for the purpose of doing something new. Isn't it just nice to express yourself? Even so your experiences will always be unique to you to some extent
Why are you people even talking about this shit? Who cares. Whether it's true that those artists were starving or not, they did it with the consciousness that they had a chance to impact the world they lived in in the present, let alone the future.
On the other hand you (as people who live in this cancerous time) have zero chances of producing work like Pessoa or whoever the frick you're thinking about right now, your favorite writer. This doesn't exist in the future. You can't even remotely hope that someone in the future will "appreciate" what you want to do, assuming you find the strength to produce the absolute best possible version of the work you have in mind to produce.
You know what future people will be like? Bugs. Bzz Bzz Bzz. Bugs. Insects. They will have no inner voice, nothing to speak to. They'll go home and wank to their custom AI generated porn or simply stuff themselves with their daily drugs and go to sleep. This is the future you hope to speak to. Then there's the present and near-future, how about that? What do you hope to accomplish here and now? There are two things you can do in this age if you're a nobody: one, various degrees of porn and two, political shit. In both cases your anus will need to be so lubricated you could play ice hockey in it. Your voice, what you have to say, it matters NOTHING, in fact not only it doesn't matter, it's nothing but a hindrance in this world right now because what matters is what the consumer wants to jerk off to. See, if you still think that the values of the past like truth, honesty, a personal vision are things that this era wants to see more of, you are sorely deluded. What this era wants to see is big fat wieners. And drooling veganas. And being told that taking it in the ass is great and you should do it more. And tokens of virtue that you can tweet about for social cred. This is how you advance society now, so people require as many of these tokens as they can. Not having the tokens means you're broke, and if you're broke you're probably depressed, and if you're depressed you're probably not medicated, and if you're not medicated you're probably not a sex-haver, and if you're not a sex-haver you're probably a Nazi and if you're a Nazi you're probably dangerous and you need to be sent to room 101.
Who are you writing for?
>M-myself!!
That's bullshit, and if it's not bullshit then you're a fricking moron. How the frick can you do something that is by its very nature meant to distribute information from one human to another entirely for yourself? You know who is it that works tirelessly entirely for "himself"? Someone who is literally, clinically autistic. And that work will be shit because it's not meant to communicate anything, it's just empty time-wasting with no purpose. Why are you doing something that has no purpose? Why do you dedicate yourself to something that will never have an impact on anyone unless what you are distributing is the worst possible filth humanity can conceive?
the heat death of the universe so nufin matters fallacy, in an elaborate costume.
absolutely imbecilic functionally illiterate reading of the post, bravo
naw, i just saw through your demoralization copypasta and recognized the idea behind it. I would think that if you really thought this that you wouldn't bother interacting with other humans at all, obviously you don't so obviously the copypasta has some heinous political intentions.
>recognized the idea behind it
no anon, you're a functionally illiterate moron
I like to tell people here to kill themselves, 90% of my posts here are venting my hatred for people
.. yeah, this was the idea i recognized. it wasn't exactly subtle. I'm not kink shaming you or anything, anon, don't worry.
You have no rebuttal to what I said because it's true. It's completely worthless to produce anything right now, and things will not change in the future. Whatever you write will never matter to anyone, you will never have an impact. People only want to consume things that are like drugs, like food, they do not want to have a dialogue. You are far better off doing something concrete for people directly near you, or something that gives yourself a direct reward. There is literally no fricking point writing or painting or making music. People just consume and they do not look back before consuming the next thing. They're already like primitive animals.
projection: the post
you're coping extremely hard right now, at least have the decency to stay quiet if you have nothing to say
there's a poem by Kurdt Cobaighn,
"the angst of my pre-teens was invested most sour,
i grew into a man who was leaden-hearted and dour,"
likewise
>because it's true.
it's not, but, this is more like a religious belief; the people who feel the need to proclaim such things for self-affirmation. I mean there's plenty of historical evidence to predict how the next four hundred years are going to go, anon, much the same as the last. It's nice to imagine it'll all end, maybe, but we're stuck on this rock until we develop a society intelligence enough to master the resources of the planet and leave.
not me.
self-affirmation, not projection.
>haha we're just going to enter communism and everything's going to be a-OK
>society is not degenerating at breakneck pace, this is just your impression you bigot
what you have said is just "you're wrong lol"
give me proof that having a voice matters at all in this era, that it's not a complete waste of time to make art and try to communicate something to anyone. even the people here who are anti-establishment are still moronic nihilistic hedonists addicted to basic stimuli. the majority of people here read because they need to feel intelligent or some other sort of cope, and literally nothing of what they read manages to have any impact on you. At the end of the day you behave just the same as a moronic zoomer who's fully submerged in tiktok culture. There's no difference.
Hmmmm.... ok, I'll give you a grandiose proof, that-
> even the people here who are anti-establishment are still moronic nihilistic hedonists addicted to basic stimuli. the majority of people here
-this doesn't matter at all,
Find out what the Aidos Kuneen is.
protip: it's an element in the medusa story.
If anybody actually deduces what I mean by this I'll be impressed. I strongly doubt anybody will.
>If anybody actually deduces what I mean by this I'll be impressed. I strongly doubt anybody will.
Then why don't you explain yourself instead of telling me about the helmet of Hades? Do you want to convince me that I'm wrong or do you want to look like a pseud? The people here are in fact indistinguishable from normies in terms of life choices and behavior. Reading Plato or being aware of rampant technological dictatorship taking over our lives doesn't matter for shit if your behavior in the end is indistinguishable from that of other consumer prostitutes. You can talk about this shit with middle aged women, they know about it, they will talk about it, but in the end they're cattle just like the rest and believe that being aware of things somehow makes them different. They read the new philosophy books that talk about this shit and consume the new media and maybe slower than the rest they adapt, or they exhibit some resistance to it.
>Wish they didn't discourage others from creating art though.
Discouraging people from doing stupid useless shit is actually doing them a favor. The only thing that's worth making today is consumerist slop for paypigs. Porn and so on. This actually has a role in this world, even though it's fricking garbage. Everything else is just literally wasting your time and you know it, I know it, everyone who's coping about it knows it, because it's beyond obvious that we live in an era where none of this matters anymore. What matters is that you push the right agenda or that you stroke people's pp or some other practical thing that has nothing to do with the human experience and all that obsolete shit. The human experience today is just consuming shit nonstop like a fricking chicken in its factory farm cage.
>consumerist slop for paypigs
Then.. try making your art more accessible to the public? It's not doing anyone a favor, because I'm going to continue writing after this conversation and you are going to continue talking about something else
>Then.. try making your art more accessible to the public?
This is a common talking point. Even if what I made were inaccessibly intellectual (it's not), the only way to make things "more accessible to the public" is to prostitute them up. You can't just do it a little bit, of course, because what you get is just bad YA or a bad porno or a bad anime harem anime story or a bad woke novel about being a gay Black muslim or a bad fantasy trope checklist. This consumer shit is in fact shit, but that doesn't mean it's made haphazardly. It follows a set of very clear guidelines, actually it's probably tighter than something you'd make with artistic intent, because the art of pandering is a much more exact science. And if I did prostitute out completely to make a product that people would in fact want to consume I would make a shit product because everything in me would resist making it. And finally, in no way I would reach my intent of actually connecting to anybody, because all that people are capable of is consuming a thing, so the only variable is "will people gobble this package of canned monkey-brain stimuli or not?", there's no such thing as "will people connect to this" or "will this impact anyone", because people aren't configured for these things anymore.
>>Then.. try making your art more accessible to the public?
>This is a common talking point.
ha i called it
> you're probably not really concerned about what you claim to be concerned by, you don't care to accomplish a thing, you care to be praised by the "masses" after the accomplishment - which is seldom how history shows us people who accomplished things were ever treated.
>ha i called it
you called what you stupid moron? it's a thing that people tell me and if you had read the post you'd understand why I think it's a pointless talking point. you fricking moronic pseud.
Uh, your demographic still exists though. There will always be an audience with similar views to you. There will always be a way to appeal to the larger majority with your art. You do not exist in a vacuum to the rest of humanity, and neither does artwork or writing. If you had all of this figured out, then you would be able to hack it or view it as an advantage. Instead you sound like you have sour grapes about all of this. Why get angry about it?
>your demographic still exists though
It does not. There are no people left. There's only shit like the homosexual directly above this post. Literally everyone is a prostitute or a prostitutegoer.
wow anon ur such a snowflake
>Then why don't you explain yourself instead of telling me about the helmet of Hades?
i didn't tell you anything about it, you've got to figure out what it actually was, you know, metaphor.
OHHHtedium tedium tedium
So, the 'helmet of hades' was a pauper or workmans cloth cap, right, how does this make Perseus unseen to Medusa? Who are the people around Medusa? Is Perseus invisible in reals? Medusa doesn't want to see Perseus because he's not dressed in garish clothing, he's dressed in a simple peasants attire. The men around Medusa are frozen or turned to stone by her, this, if you like, is what you were talking about here,
>> even the people here who are anti-establishment are still moronic nihilistic hedonists addicted to basic stimuli. the majority of people here
i.e. this doesn't matter at all. If society is preoccupied then you can literally do as you please, including decapitating their queen in front of them.
This is basically why the laments over "oh ow bad the world is" don't matter in the least; nothing is stopping you from doing whatever you like, and if you think you're all that different to the "masses" you complain about then you should implicitly have understood this.
But I said the complaint was more like a proclamation of religious belief; this is your belief, because it's a comfy way to excuse yourself from the world, and your talking about it is merely self-affirmation. Little difference to how I think most people look at things.
And you're probably not really concerned about what you claim to be concerned by, you don't care to accomplish a thing, you care to be praised by the "masses" after the accomplishment - which is seldom how history shows us people who accomplished things were ever treated.
Ah, idk, you sound petulant. Perhaps I'm just feeling the need to go over this for the benefit of other people.
>And you're probably not really concerned about what you claim to be concerned by, you don't care to accomplish a thing, you care to be praised by the "masses"
Accomplish what? You could twist anything into "praise" so no matter how I explain what I mean by impact on people you'll turn it into a vain want for fame and glory. You're simply arguing in bad faith. I care absolutely fricking nothing about praise, and I do get praise all right. Praise is cheap. If I wanted even more praise I'd just pander, that's what people whose goal is praise do. The argument I'm putting into words here is something in my guts whenever I have in mind to set out and work on or finish something I've abandoned. What is the fricking point if people are literally incapable of sincerity, both in expressing it and receiving it in any form or shape? They are hostile to it. Pearls before swine is all I can think of, I think real people are all but extinct.
Well if that's true then you wouldn't be concerned about-
>What is the fricking point if people are literally incapable
I mean that even if you havent really realized it that you're still basing your actions on praise or common opinion of the day; this doesn't matter at all. I've written for years long after I gave u the notion of publishing anything for profit; my writing since then any thought process in general has got better and better, the moment you stop basing your actions on fitting in with the local consensus - telling people what you think they want to hear - then you start to say things which people actually do want to hear, if that makes sense. But it's letting go of that image-focus on "common opinion" which frees up the mind in the first instance.
This is almost literally every inventor or discoverer of things in human history; almost always going against the grain and unrecognized in their lifetime (probably this is due to other peoples fear) yet completely influencing the path of human history through their work centuries later.
In a lot of ways, anon, - and anyway in every way that matters - 'this type' is the species leader.
and it has nothing to do with
>people(s) (opinions at the time)
being the
>fricking point
I am not basing anything on other people's opinions. My work is entirely my work. I do however believe that if the times and the species at large are entirely bankrupt and unreceptive, it is not worth it to set out and complete whatever artistic product you're making. And I do believe that in the end, published or not, the intent of art is to express something so that another may be impacted. Those "species leaders" who invented or discovered, did share their inventions and discoveries with the people. If they followed your reasoning, they would not have cared about sharing them, and most likely wouldn't have bothered doing so. Because why invest that energy in sharing your inventions and discoveries with the masses if you can use that energy to discover more shit? Are you implying that those people were glory seekers like me? Literally every single thing that enriched your life has been shared with you and in most cases it was actually sold to you.
>Those "species leaders" who invented or discovered, did share their inventions and discoveries with the people.
In some way or another, yes, but ... mean, some of the most interesting things I've ever read have been through letters or buried scraps hidden away here and there. Idon't say it's 'wrong' to publish or share work at all, if encourage it to be honest, but it shouldn't be the goal itself. I look at this like... when you ask 'why' because who else will? If as we probably largely agree that the society is flatlined, as it probably always seems to be, then the species leaders become those few people who bother. Like, those few people who bother planting crops when the villagers can't be bothered, this kind of thing. If the village survives at all then it's because of them.
My view on the thing is probably more like a benevolent misanthrope, maybe. Having gotten over being disgusted by people and recognizing that even if they kick and scream that they do need a little help here and there. That's being human, I think.
>it shouldn't be the goal itself
Why not? Why do you commies see this as a negative thing, as if it were some kind of sin of the ego? Imagine a man who wants to run as a politician because he sees his city and community in shambles, but he becomes dismayed and disillusioned about the world of politics, and what politicians need to do to get elected and get funding and all that shit — all that you see is a man who's thirsty for glory and fame, just the same as the corrupt politician who uses every dirty trick to achieve that very goal. And you know what this idiot attitude does? It validates the corrupt man, because if wanting to better your city and do something for your community puts you in the same bin as the megalomaniacs who want fame and glory to frick expensive prostitutes at parties, the megalomaniacs will definitely shine through. I don't understand this idea that making art, ART, of all things, not balsa wood airplanes or collecting stamps or some other thing that beings and ends with you, fricking ART, literal human expression whose only claim to existence is that it's our way to create connections between human beings through enormous gaps of time and space, should not be made with the idea of infecting, impacting other people with what you have to say, even if it's just a vision of the world as you see it, or a dream, or some other stupid thing. It should all be just your autistic fricking diary that you lay down. I do lay down a diary, you know why I do it? Because it's a relaxing habit. I don't even know what I wrote in it yesterday, and I'm honestly bothering to write less and less in it although I've done it for a decade. I look at all those volumes I've filled over the years and you know what I think? That they'll just go in the trash when I'll die. Not that I'd want anyone to read all the droning shit I write in my diary tbh, but those could be my manuscripts for novels, it would be the same. All this work goes direct to the trash, you know it. You also keep insisting about the hidden value of people who were "discovered later in time". But these people were discovered because there was a reason for them to be discovered. Someone took their work and did something with it. Most of the time, it was because there was salable shit that wasn't exploited in that man's work. Today you instantly see the commercial value of thing and if something's undiscovered today it goes it the trash tomorrow. So for some reason, while you advocate for doing things autistically for yourself you also make this weird appeal to posterity which is even more grandiose than what is getting me accused of glory-chasing.
Having one of those days, are we? Rejection letter in the mail again?
> which is even more grandiose than what is getting me accused of glory-chasing.
I didn't expressly say 'that' was bad; I don't think that's bad I just think it's long-term inferior. It's a whole other argument though.. the same metrics as the commerce point apply to the thing, where: marketing trash for the sake of trash produces trash and is necessitated by poverty in the desire to earn money at the expense of the society; this doesn't need to be the case but it is a lot of the time. Probably my own reasoning is that I see no value in money or fame today as I can't buy the things I might want, the tax is an insult, and so-called "fame" (nowadays) is one of the most negative experiences a human can suffer, factoring in media attention and all of this degrading shit. It's not desirable or necessary. Or maybe I'm saying that the money's just not good enough for me to bother, or I think it would make my work seem bad by association with the society of today.
> it's a relaxing habit.
exactly. That's all it should be, and if it produces something of value then that's good. If it produces something somebody wants to give you money for, then that's also good. But starting out 'to' appeal, I'm saying, is the error which queers the trajectory of a persons output and makes it worthless in the long-term. Tat was my main point in this. Do you want 10,000,000 followers, laying in their chairs, or do you want 1 "follower" who rules a country, and can put your ideas into action. That how I tend to think about it.
You're not wrong about the validation of the "corrupt man" -- I guess I can see how this conflation would happen but I think it's short-term thinking; people in that position going into XYZ for those reasons you said had just not thought properly before they went in. Mob politics, whatever, is just a pile of chimpanzees tearing at each other, and it has nothing to with anything; the older monkeys who actually control the chimpanzee colony are laying under a tree somewhere, disinterested in the political process. Or to use the village metaphor again;it doesn't matter who gets voted in as mayor of the village because the village would cease to exist if the man who owns the farm or the wine workshop decided to stop farming.
o while I'm on the subject,
Commerce: think about paywalls for a second, the artist/writer/maker/whatever labors under this pretense, making things for the public, then puts a paywall up, making sure that their work will never reach the masses and actively impeding the promulgation of their work under the pretense of money; giving money to generations of copyright lawyers to enforce the claims on their work long after they're dead, all at cost to their actual work.
much inferior.
>Like, those few people who bother planting crops when the villagers can't be bothered, this kind of thing. If the village survives at all then it's because of them.
This has literally never happened in the history of mankind without the cooperation of the villagers themselves, so thanks for proving everything I've said.
It's a metaphor, anon. And of course it's happened; without the guy who invents XYZ the society doesn't have XYZ - do you need a list of inventors and thinkers to prove this one? it'd be everything. Apply this to the "great books" and their later influence and it's easy enough to see how the idle musings or silly fiction of someone can set the course of humanity.
e.g. If Appius Claudius Caecus hadn't been born, for example, there would probably have been no Roman Empire. He invented the road, the aqueduct, heated flooring, etc. Technically he had nothing to do with politics, but his inventions are what carried the state. You can say that he wasn't "obscure" in his time, true true, but my point is the unforeseen effect of a person within their own lifetime; Appius may have clapped at and given some cake in his day but this doesn't matter at all, it's the long term and massive consequences that we don't foresee our works contributing to that ought or should be the goal kept in mind.
>Today you instantly see the commercial value of thing and if something's undiscovered today it goes it the trash tomorrow.
The opposite: if something has commercial value today it's in the trash tomorrow. This was kind of what I was pointing out where "the best" writers weren't career writers they were landlords and had free time to write. The idea of market orientation, setting out with that goal in mind, just produces the garbage culture that you're complaining about. This is probably one thing that's more true today than it's ever been in the past, but this is just a tiny fraction of actual content and the perspective of that tiny fraction representing "everything" is the platos cave perspective.
I think you were saying yesterday that "nothing new" is made - forget that this is false - but ask whether you personally, or your culture/society, have actually been shown "everything (that so far exists)" yet - the answer there is "obviously (they have) not": in terms of commerce, commerce is the action of taking one thing from one place and bringing it somewhere where it's 'new'; it's not new to the place it came from but it's a "new discovery" to the mind of the purchaser, hence the perceived or actual value.
>without the cooperation of the villagers themselves,
naw, look up Manor/Villa/Palace Economy. Cities existed (originally) due to the production and output of a single household, it's the same principle or dynamic to any endeavor; if person A cannot be bothered then person As 'society' will exist in stagnation, 'maybe' person B on some other island will be bothered and person Bs 'society' will be the powerful kingdom in 300yrs as a consequence.
>autistically
you mean solipsistically; autism is not this.
> which is even more grandiose than what is getting me accused of glory-chasing.
I didn't expressly say 'that' was bad; I don't think that's bad I just think it's long-term inferior. It's a whole other argument though- tbc
>autism is not this
no, I meant autism exactly: autistic people repeat a task over and over obsessively for the sake of repeating that task and nothing else.
>The opposite: if something has commercial value today it's in the trash tomorrow.
this is false because the future will be garbage. you are massively naive
lol great argument
i think we already established this was not the case with the ethic behind 'why' a person might write.
what you are making right now that is not destined for commerce or propaganda has absolutely zero chance of impacting anyone now or anytime in the future; the reason why nobody is protesting the absolute death of the arts in favor of propaganda, porn and glorified israeliteelry for pseuds is that there is nobody left who cares, and even if you manage to produce something with the capability of having an impact on anyone it will simply be consumed mindlessly, mechanically, because people don't change anymore, they are impervious to everything. Nobody really likes anything, Whether your work exists or not or gets through the filtering system to actual people or not doesn't matter. Art has perhaps completely lost its ability to empower people because it's all been seized by propaganda. Ever since they discovered that people can be made to follow anything as long as they recognize any made-up figure as authority, all this influence has been studied like a science and people trained to follow this source of influence like animals, since childhood. There's no undoing this, life and the connection between people used to have a different dimension, right now it's a pyramid where everyone at the bottom is more and more isolated in a cubicle. And it will only get worse and worse. If you think that you're building anything like a legacy, or that there are any people left who are receptive to art, you are deluded. There's no future but a great plodding machine stuck in a consumerist rolling release, things that you see today will be an updated version of the same in 300 years, and the same goes with people: there have been whole generations of filtering people, where everyone who's not completely compliant is induced to suicide or neutralized with brain drugs or simply destroyed socially and mentally. The filter gets tighter and tighter every year, today it's already near perfect, it will be perfect in not too long.
>almost always going against the grain and unrecognized in their lifetime (probably this is due to other peoples fear)
And this is just fricking bullshit btw. I think you're a communist for saying this so insincerely. These creative, intelligent people were most often prized and paid handsomely in the past, they did this shit by trade. Ironically, people like Tesla ended like they did because the industrial era was kicking in and values were starting to shift. If you value being given shit so much then you should absolutely lick the capitalist boots of money-driven scientists with zero moral barriers who are feeding you constant innovations and life-saving medicine. The problem is that art is different because it acts on a human level. You can't just create a product, the product will just be porno YA shit or a Marvel movie. This shit is probably scientifically built like the flavors in a McD's hamburger. It does satisfy the customers for sure though but again, if your idea is making art and giving them the impact that art gave to you before entire generations of bugs were mistakenly born instead of people, what is the point?
>And this is just fricking bullshit
> so insincerely.
Well maybe maybe, but would you have preferred to hear that my favorite authors were landowning nobles who wrote things down because they didn't need to care about making a profit from it? it can be both though. Either way it doesn't really matter.
I’ve tried writing a book before but I always end up hating what I’m working on early on. Somehow the print just ends up cringe no matter what. I think my brain has been poisoned by anime and video games.
If nothing matters anymore, then it is also a meaningless waste of time to tell that to people here and argue with them. If nothing matters, then even that statement in itself doesn't matter, and you saying it is no more true or meaningful than a different anon writing a book that no one will ever read.
I feel good when I make posts like
and when I talk shit to people here. I cannot do this anywhere else for obvious reasons. Also yes I am a hypocrite when I make effortposts explaining that it's all futile, I do in fact hope to influence someone and stop him from wasting his time and get him to do something more productive. Does that mean I do not believe it's futile? Of course I do. In fact I think I just post that shit to call people morons when they reply with cope like literally everyone does. I know for a fact that I will never get anyone to change his mind about anything, mostly because the people here don't read, don't write, and if they do write they're perfectly on board with shitting out cancer YA or litvidya or whatever the frick zoomers gobble up like turkeys today.
I call this the "it's over" mindset when it comes to art.
Strangely, I hear it a lot from people in my generation. Not sure why that's the mainstream opinion either. Even if tropes and stories were recycled, it's still more fun and exciting than other mundane everyday activities
>it's still more fun and exciting than other mundane everyday activities
a walk in the park is infinitely more rewarding than writing for modern bugmen
Yeah, different strokes for different folks I guess. Sometimes I feel like blowing my brains out listening to normal conversation. Most of the time I tune them out, or nod and pretend to listen
It's fine I suppose. That's just how people are. They have different interests and different ideas. Wish they didn't discourage others from creating art though. Personally, I never try to shut anyone down for their interests. Nor have I gone out of my way to crush their spirit, even when they rant about stupid shit like celebrities or sports. Yet, I've heard arguments like OPs endlessly. Also been called egotistical, stupid or wienery for trying to create/write decent projects (and how does that make sense?)
Oh well, what can you do. Different perspectives
>what can you do.
hit them over the head and sell them into slavery. that's what i'd do. oh wait, soft society protects them. pft.
If you’re being honest with yourself do you really find a novel more fun and exciting than a video game or a movie? You probably don’t.
Video games and movies are short term (they explode into an intense but short feeling); novels are long term (they are damage per second, poison that keeps inside of you longer).
No, not really. I don't play video games or watch movies. Most of the time I spend is either working or messing around, trying to write or play with creative ideas
>No, not really. I don't play video games or watch movies. Most of the time I spend is either working or messing around, trying to write or play with creative ideas
I feel you, anon. I still play games here and there, but I'd much rather be writing/reading.
OP's melodramatic shit is why I got into art instead. Even if AI can do way better art now it's a more tactile skill than writing.
I write but I can't actually bring myself to write a story much less finish something publishable like a novel or even a blogpost.
Really good fiction is informed by life but no one lives anymore. We live in the most systemized inert mundane world that has ever existed.
sorry, anon/s, it is late here, my writing is starting to miss words
listen me the can thou hardest do, reading of me. haha
YOU HAVE TO LIVE IT.
you do not read enough if you think nothing is original. all creation is com8ination, 8ut there are amazing com8inations out there that definitely are more than what they are com8ining
Okay here's the redpill you probably need
Most successful artists that are now held in extremely high esteem started out by just copying the artists they liked and following the trends of their time
Yes you are not unique or special right now but that doesn't mean you can't be eventually
The other important thing to remember is simply that art is not a competition. I mean in some specific historical instances it might have seemed like it but even then it's usually more of a call and response.
I think true artists generally feel a kinship with each other.
I just published another book today. Writing for me is like having great, passionate, soul-fulfilling sex with myself, so it's a great time and I love it. Few if any people read what I write, and I don't try to make any money from it.
The book is called "For the Love of dicky" and it's free. This is a picture of the first page. Like I said, it's mostly just a form of masturbation of my mind, I'm not here to try and win anyone over or anything.
I used to care more, to make memes like Joe Rape, but it's impossible to get people to read even a sentence on a meme, so I don't have any faith they will be able to read or process my books. That's ok, because I do, and I enjoy them.
Blessed trips for an auspicious first page. You have a gift, anon.
haha epic well memed my friend
Then stop writing and get off this board.
Why NOT try? Why has anyone ever been published or read? Defeatists like you will never produce anything. I finished my first novel last year and I will get it published. I don't care about your loser projection, write or don't.