I'm convinced by the utilitarian arguments for Christian faith, but I'm having a hard actually believing because Christianity sounds like total bullshit to me.
How do I brainwash myself into believing that some guy 2k years ago walked on water?
PS: It's probably harder for me than for normies because I'm a high functioning sperg.
Christians don't want you. So what's the point? You're not welcome.
Maybe not debatebro internet christians, but irl christians will take whatever they get. And that's what I care about - I'm definitely not convinced that online armchair christianity has the psychological and social benefits that I want to convert for in the first place.
Christ wants him.
DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS
>Christians don't want you. So what's the point? You're not welcome.
fpbp
Forget what the churches say and just read the Bible yourself, sola scriptura and all that. Apply everything in the Bible to reality. And, if it isn't literally real, it's a metaphor for some thing literally real.
>I can't believe it, it sounds like bullshit.
>Ok bro but how about you just believe it.
Not how it works, bud.
The Father doesn't want OP, the Son doesn't want OP, and the Holy Ghost doesn't want OP.
So what's the point?
>The Father doesn't want OP, the Son doesn't want OP, and the Holy Ghost doesn't want OP.
>So what's the point?
OP is under the false premise that Christianity is an available option. It isn't.
Why wouldn't it be an available option? The CIA can brainwash people to believe all kinds of stuff, why should it be impossible for me to brainwash myself to believe christianity?
well first off you don't have a brain to be brainwashed so that is impossible also.
Why do you say that? I'm trying to believe in christianity but christians do is insult me.
I think of the famous "Liar, Lunatic or Lord" trilemma. If Jesus' teachings work for you, then you'll have to consider him a great moral teacher. But he also called himself the Son of God and the Messiah. So if he's neither of those things, then why bother with his teachings? The only other logical step is to actually start believing his supernatural claims.
Was Lewis moronic?
Why shouldn't people bother with Jesus' teachings if he wasn't the son of God? What's the reason for that.
My Grandpa was a great moral teacher, he was not divine.
Because your Grandpa didn't make any supernatural claims. At the very least if one disbelieves Jesus but listens to his moral teachings they are implicitly listening to the moral teachings of a deeply insane man.
>deeply insane man.
That's too silly. I think religion is entirely made-up, as in, no God, no miracles.
Do you think I consider every Christian who claims to have religious experiences to be "deeply insane"? (I don't)
I think humans got a great capacity to confuse themselves with all sort of false beliefs, without being deeply insane
>Grandpa didn't make any supernatural claims
He totally did.
Grandpa claimed to talk to a disembodied mind, that is also the cause of this universe, and a guy with holes in his hands.
That sometimes granted Grandpa certain worldly favors, by doing magic.
But did your grandpa ever claim to be God? Probably not. Jesus did. So if he isn't actually divine then he's a liar or a lunatic and you shouldn't bother with his teachings. But if he actually is divine (which I think he is) then absolutely you should follow his teachings.
>did your grandpa ever claim to be God
He claimed to talk to him, though.
Which of course I think is kinda weird to me. But it's not like I consider my Grandpa to have been insane.
Well either your Grandpa was sincerely praying and receiving clarity from God; or he was making shit up; or he was talking to made up voices in his head.
Right, now do you think he was actually talking to God? Or was he just imagining things (this is a little different from being insane or delusional)
>just imagining things (this is a little different from being insane or delusional)
I think it's this one.
Which think it pretty different that being, deeply insane. Which is probably the point I should have made right away
Atheists LARPing as Christians is probably the dumbest trend of the decade. Jordan Peterson, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Tom Holland, Douglas Murray, Bart Ehrman. These people all have slightly different viewpoints of course but overall it's such a silly movement.
I totally agree with you, larpianity is dumb. The entire point of this thread is that I want to brainwash myself into not being a larper in order to gain the psychological benefits of genuine faith.
You can’t and that’s a stupid fricking idea. Cognitive dissonance causes stress. You’re going to just drive yourself crazy and turn yourself into a habitual, compulsive liar
You cannot be a Christian, you've been BANNED by the LORD God.
>God is the metaphysical equivalent to a discord janny
That...actually makes a lot of sense.
Really? An entire board practically dedicated to discussing religion and nobody can give me advice on how to make myself believe?
Go ahead and try being a Christian; you can't, you're unwanted. God said.
Ok so one of the things I've considered was doing shrooms and going to mass. Thoughts?
Also not convinced that calvinism has the same benefits as other branches.
>Ok so one of the things I've considered was doing shrooms and going to mass
lol you’ll learn something if you do that, that’s for sure.
So take meds. Makes sense. Thank you.
Not what I said, I said if you do shrooms and go to mass you will learn something but I doubt it’s what your current conscious goal is lol
traditional Calvinism according to Calvin (not hyper-calvinism) is much the same in practice as other streams of Christianity.
Why do you think every scoffing moron's attention whoring thread deserves a Christian's time?
I have better things to do than baby sit you morons who aren't serious about this, you never are, you just want to waste people's time.
If you don't want to waste your time, get off IQfy. I'll be here talking to people who take this whole thing seriously.
You don't take it seriously, israelite.
I take it very seriously, otherwise I wouldn't be trying to make myself believe.
Also idk why you're calling me a israelite. I know for a fact that I have no israelites among my ancestors going back at least to my great grandparents, likely further.
Troll
How am I trolling? You're the one randomly calling me a israelite.
No you don't take it seriously, you left-shit subhuman. Take your raid thread and have a nice day with your little pisscord pedophiles.
Why do you think I don't take it seriously? I literally specified that I'm not interested in larping as a christian and instead genuinely want to make myself believe that christianity is true.
Just have a nice day, liar. I'm not going to give a liar like you any effort.
That's just as well, I don't think someone who tells people to kill themselves is someone who can help me believe in christianity.
Don't
You're not trying to believe, you're just a troll liar shitting up IQfy because you think you're an epic-quipping fedora with le ebin shitposts. Christians can all see through your feigned sincerity, so please have a nice day.
You don't sound like any christian I've ever met irl. If you don't want to help, ignore the thread. Easy.
You're really going to persist in your deliberate moronic troll thread? You are exactly like every proud scoffing fool I've ever met and entirely unlike any to whom God could be found.
If you really wanted to do this homosexual nonsense you're doing, then you shouldn't have played your cards in the OP.
Most churches are a hateful parody of God. You're a fool.
>If you really wanted to do this homosexual nonsense you're doing, then you shouldn't have played your cards in the OP.
I was literally just being sincere, it's funny that you then called me a liar because of it.
It's funny you think I can't discern of what spirit you are.
I was as upfront as can be. I doubt you even go to church, so I'll wait for actual christians to give me some advice.
Nah dawg, all the Christians I know would have told him to sit in for Sunday anyway and maybe he'd find true faith one day. Can't get closer to God if he just lies on his bed. You're a hateful parody of fundies.
Either you were born a child of God or you were not.
Children of God are circumcised by their whiteness for their salvation by the Christ.
Those children of God who reject salvation for their cursed bloodline are israelites and the doomed servants of evil.
Those who are not children of God should worship the moon flesh of the fallen star and pray for intersession on their behalf so they are spared from their deserved annihilation.
they want to make this game about race, then so be it and God has provided the way.
Go to church, pray to God for guidance.
Tried that, doesn't work.
Jew
>Prayer doesn't work like a magic spell God is dead!
I was raised atheist but personally deist for a long time. High functioning sperg. Kept reading and thinking about it. Eventually I just had an epiphany one day, felt the presence/had a vision of the Holy Spirit. I would describe it as sort of like a hyper-vivid sudden and rapturous daydream that you actually remember in detail while being clearly fully awake, so nothing like a daydream ig. Deism at least is rational so I would just say if you sincerely want faith just keep on moving as a Deist and read the Bible/study church history and sincerely pray even if it feels a little silly. Part of the problem with this thread is you're getting a mix of crade-christians and LARPers replying. God be with you.
>Eventually I just had an epiphany one day, felt the presence/had a vision
Could this be explained by human biology? Rather there actually being a God causing the visions, by way of miracle
Maybe. It took me years to come to terms with it properly. Faith is overly mythologized by Sola Fide Protestants as some sort of thing where you trip, fall, and believe absolutely in God the next minute. It took me from the state of "Christianity is good morally but the supernatural part is impossible" to "maybe Christianity is actually just true" and spurred further study. It created a tiny kernel of belief that grew from that point. If God exists, why can't the supernatural happen? Not a lot of people are as slow as me though I think because I almost wanted to deny the belief that was growing deep down. It creates an immense feeling of responsibility for one's actions that was hard to cope with.
No, because I am Christian. I don't believe they are insane and I don't believe Jesus in his ministry was insane.
>No, because I am Christian
Yeah, yeah. I get that. But I am not.
Should *I* think they are insane?
Well either you think they're lying, insane, or telling the truth; which was the question posited by Lewis at the beginning of this convo.
To elaborate, Lewis's trilemma isn't to convince pure atheists. It exists to argue against nominal Christians who claim to "follow Christ" but also throw out all of his supernatural claims.
>throw out all of his supernatural claims.
Huuuh? How does that work
God is supernatural, right? If you throw out the supernatural, you throw out God. That entails atheism, I figure.
>insane
Would probably rather want to call it "mistaken"
Satanic quints have reaffirmed my belief in Jesus Christ, The One true God and in The One Catholic Apostolic Roman Church
Jesus Christ! 66666
NOT TODAY SATAN
Fairy earning, Satan has elevated my Spirit from the gutter like 5000 times more than the God you're going to worship.
No, I'm not a troony. I'm not homosexual either. I didnt even sell my soul.
Pride comes before a fall. Check yourself.
homie, I was trying to off myself and Satan fukked off the pills
It's not the only case, this person quit drugs because of Satan too
>Woe unto us! who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods?
>these are the Gods that smote the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=Long&q1=these+mighty+Gods?
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=Long&q1=these+are+the+Gods
kys mudslime shill, you will not distract a soul from being saved by Christ our Lord
All praise to the Goddesses and to the Gods non believer.
You chug enough coffee to stay awake for 3 days and in your delirium you proclaim Christ to be the savior who died for your sin.
That's all the Sola Fide sects need.
Go get a baptism if you're running for Catholic or Orthodox.
It is total bullshit, but you don’t have to Believe in it to practice the faith : )
It’s all bullshit but I still go to church sometimes
>Christianity sounds like total bullshit to me.
It is. And if you're tempted to play pretend out of some misguided "belief in belief," there's no reason to not simply create a better religion and kayfabe that instead.
>because Christianity sounds like total bullshit to me
Because it is. Literally nothing wrong with simply being a cultural Christian. You can still follow Christian morality even without believeing that a dead rabbi controls the universe and is going to come back to Earth in two more weeks.
Find a church you like, read the Bible daily, possibly with a guide focused on some topic or another, and pray multiple times a day. Go and help people and do charity stuff. Do it for a couple of years.
Cultural Christianity is the worst. Christianity gets turned into a tool by non-believers to profit themselves and twists it into being an ideological tool. Disgusting.
Read the new testament
Do the Lord's prayer every day
Pray that you might be able to believe (read Mark chapter 9 and understand belief a spectrum, but if you want to believe ask God every day that he may strengthen your belief
Go to a church every Sunday
That ought to get you started, we spend a whole life trying to figure out how to please the Lord, there isn't a quick way to say it, "repent and believe in Jesus Christ" but that entails oh so much.
Good people to get you started (they exist on YouTube)
R.C Sproul
Mike Winger
David Wood (focus on his videos about faith, otherwise it's just making fun of Islam, which is entertaining but not what you need right now)
God bless and good luck, if you have an open heart about Christ you will find him.
Thanks, I think it's a good idea to approach it in a more regimented way like that. I'll probably replace the youtube stuff with watching Tarkovsky movies or reading poems by John Donne though, I think that's more my vibe.
Heart and mind my friend, the more I learn about the Lord the more I love him, sometimes I feel quite connected and in touch with him, sometimes not as much, there isn't always a constant emotion, it really depends, just start cultivating knowledge and dedication.
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."
Hold on to the promise of the Lord and relish in them, that is what brings me comfort in hard times. Try to slowly conform to the rules of the Bible, out of love for God.
I'd recommend the videos from Mike Winger about Crucifixion, I think he provides a pretty solid case for the legitimacy of the resurrection, once you accept Jesus has resurrected I think all his other miracles make sense.
Anyhow I wouldn't recommend IQfy as a resources, 95% of threads are just bait threads where people have made up their minds, so don't listen to the vile venom people have set out here, Christ never refused anyone who approached him with an honest attempt at understanding.
Cheers and yeah obviously some of the freaks of IQfy aren't representative of christianity in general.
Looks good, thanks.
You fry when you die. God said.
The Holy Ghost damned OP so it's over.
This, belief in the Resurrection makes accepting the rest the only logical conclusion. What we know from the historical record is that his disciples claimed he resurrected, thousands of people saw him in the months after his death, anti-Christian writers conceded that he resurrected, etc.
>Mike Winger about Crucifixion, I think he provides a pretty solid case for the legitimacy of the resurrection
I don't think this is gonna work, I'm not a gullible person.
Humans making up stories, is pretty much always going to be a better explanation, than man walking on water.
Need to make me think magic is real first. 2000 year old stories not going to do that.
You seriously think that is gonna make him think it's true that a man walked on water 2000 years ago?
She's a troony.
It's important to note that "faith" isn't just blind strong belief like a lot of Protestant sects seem to believe. You can't brainwash faith. Faith equals sincerely making the best effort to live according to Providence (God's plan) and sincerely feeling remorse and asking forgiveness when you inevitably fail.
You can't save yourself. God needs to heal your heart of stone.
LORD God refused to. OP has been damned.
Have you heard of Hesychasm? I am a Protestant but I have a lot of appreciation for the monastic traditions of the Eastern Church. Perhaps that kind of contemplative prayer is what you are looking for.
ignore all mudslimes and israelites (same thing).
The first and most important thing is to read the Bible, understand the belief, and accept Christ.
>Sola Scriptura
>Sola Fide
are great starting points.
Also, the Gospels.
Read The Language of God and the Case For Christ.
>convinced by the utilitarian arguments
you know these people go to hell regardless
when OP dies OP fries. Jesus said.
Actively discouraging others from conversion is a sin. Regardless, I doubt you are Christian. You seem to be trolling.
the poor bastard could've been saved but chose satan over jesus. poor bastard.
>sperg
A person who displays awkward, pedantic, or obsessive behavior stereotypically associated with Asperger's syndrome, okay.
>I'm convinced by the utilitarian arguments for Christian faith
That aspect of it was just lifted from Greek philosophy. Study stoicism or something if it attracts you. The answer isn't to follow some israeli rip off of your own heritage.
>how to turn yourself Christian?
You can’t. The Holy Spirit does it.
>apostles creed
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Christian church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
>Small catechism.
What does this mean? I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith. In the same way He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian church He daily and richly forgives all my sins and the sins of all believers. On the Last Day He will raise me and all the dead, and give eternal life to me and all believers in Christ.
The posters in this thread successfully pushed me further from Christianity. Thank you.
No problem. Enjoy hades.
Lmao enjoy Santa giving you coal for Christmas! Ahaha you fricking loser.
Don't cry. Just fry.
Post body.
I suspect you weren't sincere in the first place, or have never read a IQfy thread in your life if you didn't think this thread was going to be a mess from the start.
Do crosses work against vampires if I'm atheist?
Yes. Get them blessed.
>believing
The word believe should be understood as "plan", or "code", not "fantasize".
Your not suppose to "brainwash" yourself. You're suppose to learn how to code. What does it mean to "walk on water"? What is the logical command line that you are being given, and why is your lack of "faith" causing you to sink?
What is the purpose of the word, "faith"? When you read this script, in the syntax of a command line, what process do you execute?
The simplest way? Cut your balls off and burn all your extra earnings beyond affording the bare essentials.
Why? Your going to be cucked by your snake oil salesma- whoops, I mean priest and your wallet is going to be raped by the church.