I dont get it, Luther launched a revolt against guilttripping, bondage of works, and uncertainty of salvation, only for Calvin to reintroduce these...

I don’t get it, Luther launched a revolt against guilttripping, bondage of works, and uncertainty of salvation, only for Calvin to reintroduce these follies back into the reformed Churches? What was the whole point?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >bondage of works
    >Calvinism
    Something tells me you have no idea what you're talking about lol

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Never seen Paul Washer?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Who?
        Some irrelevant nobody?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Nice Satanic trips but Paul Washer self-identifies as an Evangelical who just takes bits and pieces from Calvinism wherever it suits his own purposes.

          Calvinists have historically pursued self-holiness to insane lengths, we even derived the word “puritan” derived from them.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Puritans are a small group of Calvinists, not the whole.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Calvinists have historically pursued self-holiness to insane length
            So did the Essene israelites, which Jesus Christ himself was. I don't see how that's really a knock against Calvinism.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Any good readings about the relation of Jesus to the Essenes? They were a cool group, but I’ve never heard this connection before.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >People disregard completely fundamentals of what they say they believe
            Many such cases

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nice Satanic trips but Paul Washer self-identifies as an Evangelical who just takes bits and pieces from Calvinism wherever it suits his own purposes.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >what is Lordship Salvation

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Bondage of works?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >dood this catholic cartoon proves my theological position

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It’s an Evangelical cartoon and it’s right, that’s exactly what scripture says.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          See

          Ephesians 2:8-9
          >For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can.

          To be fair, the Bible does contradict itself on the point of salvation. Calvinists aren't in the wrong for assuming that the deterministic view of Ephesians is the correct one. It's just as likely to be as any other verse that contradicts it.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Galatians 5:6

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, like I said, the Bible contradicts itself on this point.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There can’t be any contradiction.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nta
            Yet, there are. Developing convoluted cope to try to get around contradictions is not an answer to them.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Is God perfect?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There is no contradiction, a shallow/dead faith accomplishes nothing except self-satisfaction, only a working faith counts. So you need to work to be justified.

            This statement just said that faith alone is not enough.

            Do you not see how your own argument contradicts itself? The Bible both posits works as essential to salvation (James 2:14-16) and faith as being the sole determination of salvation - which is explicitly "not by works" (Ephesians 2:8-9)

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There can’t be any contradiction. The Bible is always to be regarded as a whole with an entirely unified message due to the unity, perfection, and constancy of its divine author. This means that each part must always be understood as belonging to the whole, and that the true context of any given passage must be regarded as the Bible in its entirety.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The Bible was still written by human beings who had differing opinions. That's why there's over a hundred contradictions inside it.
            http://media.isnet.org/kmi/off/XXtian/101ContradictionsInTheBible.pdf

            If you can't explain why it's not a contradiction, it is. You haven't.

            Works don’t earn anything, they make faith perfect and there is no justification without them.

            >Works don't matter but you can't be faithful without them
            Might want to work out those mental gymnastics.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I precisely didn’t say they don’t matter. They matter, they just don’t earn. It’s about making an effort, short as it may fall.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But James says "faith without works is dead" whereas Ephesians says, "salvation is entirely predicated on faith - which is not by works". Both points can't be true simultaneously as these two arguments are innately at odds with one another (because they were written by different authors who differed in opinion)

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Paul also says non-working faith is useless. The Christian Bible is remarkably harmonized across authors.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Paul also says non-working faith is useless.
            Which, again, directly contradicts:
            Ephesians 2:8-9
            >For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >so that no one can boast*

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So now you’re saying Paul was contradicting himself and confused. As I said, it’s about making an effort, short as it may fall.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm saying Paul contradicted the author of Ephesians, just like the author of James contradicted the author of Ephesians (and vice versa). L2reading comprehension

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It’s not a contradiction to say that works don’t earn you heaven but they still matter. Think of a teacher giving a makeup exam after everyone failed the first one.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The idea that "faith without works is dead" fundamentally negates Ephesians point about faith being separate from works (not from yourselves)

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            God gifts people with a faith that wants to work, silly.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Let me break it down like this:
            >Ephesians: salvation is entirely dependent upon faith, which is explicitly described as being disconnected from works.
            >James: faith is nothing without works.
            There's the contradiction you've yet to address.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            In the first case, it’s works of the law. Old Covenant vs New Covenant. It’s like I said, professor giving a makeup exam out of mercy. Even if you succeed on the makeup exam, you passed thanks entirely to the mercy of the professor.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nope. The Bible’s divine author is still God. And due to the perfection, unity, and constancy of God, there can’t be any contradiction. The Pauline epistles and the ot make it clear justification is by faith alone.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            See

            But James says "faith without works is dead" whereas Ephesians says, "salvation is entirely predicated on faith - which is not by works". Both points can't be true simultaneously as these two arguments are innately at odds with one another (because they were written by different authors who differed in opinion)

            You can't just bury your head in the sand as an argument

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There’s nothing contradictory between faith alone and James 2 and I’m not hiding from it. The Pauline epistles are clear about justification.
            >whatsoever is not of faith is sin.(Rom. 14:23
            >man may exert himself as he will, he is a child of wrath by nature.(Eph. 2:3)
            A faith that is not thus connected with holiness is the dead faith of which St.
            James speaks, and which is just as little justifying as it is sanctifying. To ascribe justification to such a lifeless thing betrays an utter want of understanding in spiritual matters. But while the truth is undeniable that a living faith is never sundered from the sanctifying influences of the Spirit who dwells in the hearts of believers, it is equally certain that the holy affections which accompany it are neither the ground nor the means of justification. A grosser misunderstanding of the precious doctrine which we teach can scarcely be conceived than that which, when faith is mentioned, assumes that works are meant. It overthrows the very foundation of our salvation, which is Christ, to substitute the latter for the former. For if our holy emotions or performances effect our acceptance with God, then has Christ become to us of none effect. What need have we for a Savior if we can save ourselves? Why speak any longer of the merits of Christ as the ground of our hope, if that ground is the sanctification which we ourselves possess?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Works don’t earn anything, they make faith perfect and there is no justification without them.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The fact that works are a prerequisite eliminates the idea that faith is the sole determinate. Jesus and Paul contradict each other on this issue. Jesus tells us that every jot and tittle of Torah law matters in the most pinnacle sense. Paul tells us to a law doesn't matter at all anymore. In fact you don't even have to circumcise your foreskin anymore.

            And trying to mesh these contradictions has manifested a lot of rationalization.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There is no contradiction, a shallow/dead faith accomplishes nothing except self-satisfaction, only a working faith counts. So you need to work to be justified.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This statement just said that faith alone is not enough.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ephesians 2:8-9
      >For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can.

      To be fair, the Bible does contradict itself on the point of salvation. Calvinists aren't in the wrong for assuming that the deterministic view of Ephesians is the correct one. It's just as likely to be as any other verse that contradicts it.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Lutheranism is Christianity. Calvinism is Judaism.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That primitive Baptists have been the only true church of God, but not the universal church. Zwingli had Hubmeyer killed. You can identify the church by which group was suffering the most persecution.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      primative baptists are calvinists, moron. You’re thinking about anabaptists.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Dirk

    Both Luther and Calvin focused on reforming worship and sacrament

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it was the israelites, why germany was the revolutionary point since the fall of israel by rome?
    jews, the first european country they move is germany

    from luther to the weimar republic it was all israelites

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    he was a schizophrenic

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Some people tend to think it was Calvin but he hasn't, the English Puritans are the ones who went reintroduced penitence and preparationism. Calvin was closer to Luther than the English Puritans and the continental reformed documents prove it when you compare them with the English ones

    • 4 weeks ago
      Dirk

      True, and pietism is a corollary development among Lutherans

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >uncertainty of salvation

    Assurance is the most moronic thing to obsess over.

    It does precisely *nothing* to make you a better Christian.
    Knowing whether or not you're saved changes *nothing* about what Jesus told you to do on earth.
    It exists *only* for the sake of protecting your precious feefees.

    Like, "oh why would I be a Christian if I don't get a guaranteed pass into heaven?" If I don't get to go to heaven being Christian is pointless. There's nothing else to Christianity except my heavenly reward. What do you mean I'm supposed to do what Jesus told me to do just because it's right?"

    You're completely missing the point.

    Stop pretending you know how Jesus will judge you and start building up his kingdom.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nice

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The way biblical interpretation seems to work puzzles me. I'm mildly convinced you can conclude that Jesus, Paul and the Apostles were just shit testing goys and open minded israelites if you just read the NT hard enough.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Luther
    Was correct. The people of England, and whites in general do not need the Catholic church because they are people of the Kingdom of Heaven by right of birth by blood. A very long time ago the Catholics had it right but somewhere along the way they got subverted and their practice was perverted. Today even they bow down and worship the flesh, shameful.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

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