I'm seeing too much of myself in the Underground Man, and I'm not liking, is like a slap in the face, makes me feel bad, neuroticism is a hell of thing,
>t.30 years old virgin NEET
I'm seeing too much of myself in the Underground Man, and I'm not liking, is like a slap in the face, makes me feel bad, neuroticism is a he...
iktf too much of a coward to end it though
How the frick are you a virgin at 30 years old? Jesus christ I dont understand you people.
Fricking normies, imagine incapable of understand that people are different and not their clones, some much narcissism and stupidity
Ive met with and related to a ton of people way different than myself. Ive literally never met a 30 year old virgin in my life.
Surprised? Someone people are just different, someone people live on the outskirts of society, probably you can't understand the underground man, but I can.
Well i think the book is a warning and not to be romanticized. Im not trying to be a dick im saying there isnt necessarily an excuse to be a virgin unless truly by choice. It could be a flaw you could work on if you were humble enough to do so.
I'm not romanticize, but I can see that the underground man flaws are my flaws, I'm a neutoric man, that unfortunately because of my neurotic personality lost many choices and chances to be with a woman or having a career, that why I felt bad reading the book, because I can relate with the deep neuroticism and sheer self loath.
Why are you so neurotic and how does it present itself?
He had an escape, the prostitute at the end showed him how. He couldn't take it, but she was capable of faith to make the miraclous leap to escape the circle of tyranny and self-contempt.
>Ive literally never met a 30 year old virgin in my life.
Dude, if I was 30 yo virgin, I would never tell you
Im a 27 year old one, provably will die like one, but the world is probably going to end in 2030 so no biggies
Delusional.
I don't go outside and I don't interact with people because I lowkey despise them, especially women.
Despicable
IQfy 2023 really captivated by normalhomosexuals like you
So if youre not a misanthropic loser youre a normalgay? Okay then.
Just be undesirable for 29 years and try to remain so for another. It is not rocket science.
are you saying you are literally too stupid to formulate an explanation for the phenomena?
like, you are literally too stupid to think of answers as simple as "anxiety prevents them from forming intimate social relationships" or "chronic physical illness prevents them from physically going out into the world and interacting with others like normal people" or obvious shit like that?
how could you be THAT stupid???
Right wingers are inherently low Testosterone. its why everyone on /misc/ looks like pic rel
I'm apolitical but still hate people.
>I'm seeing too much of myself in the Underground Man
You, too?
It does get a lot worse, though, like that scene at the dinner that he invites himself to.
By "worse" I mean better because it's really cringey.
Got to that part, quiet pathetic and almost painful to read.
Unironically mental illness, search for "high neuroticism big five personality"
I know about the big five but not to such an extent Ill look it up. I do think behavior clings to a niche in everyone and its pretty impossible to break out of that. But if you dont have any quality of life (not saying you dont) then man youve got to work on that shit as much as you can. Ive had to let go a lot recently and have changed myself quite a bit the last few years, though Im still kind of fricked up.
If you pass 30,. it's over.
Bad mindset, its time for you to take some LSD bro
What I'm in for if I take it?
if you do it right, temporary immunity from the underground man's disease
A body high that puts you on your ass at first till you realize your body is actually pretty light. Then you rapid cycle through some different emotions and it makes you sort of look outside yourself and see that all your actions are filtered through these emotions which are to a large extent arbitrary. Sort of gives a nihilistic feeling that you belong to the earth only but that part is just an illusion. It can teach you how to act better as a human. Watched it reduce my wife’s severe depression 90 percent over night.
When I did it, I laughed at the first two murders in Zodiac because I recognized the sexual frustration in how viciously the woman was stabbed, got mad at a Mexican restaurant because it was inauthentic (white owners) then cried for thirty minutes about a man and his daughter who drowned crossing the Rio Grande then ate a Tuscan melon outside and stayed at the pattern in the rind then tried to get my wife to meditate with me under a tree.
Don't do it if you work the next day, you will not be able to sleep after it wears off.
Life doesn’t begin until 30. You just have to make sure you didn’t get too far behind the eight ball
Most old people when they are asked what age they wished to be forever or go back to they say 36. Food for thought my sexy baby
Yea its a slap in the face, just what I needed. My crystal palace was a fricking doghouse all along! Can you believe that? Smh.. im way better now after reading that profound work
Learn the lesson of the prostitute at the end of the novella. Love is not the acquisition of a possession to tyrannize and rule as lord over. This includes possession of your own self, the underground man tyrannizes himself because he is incapable of truly loving even himself. Love, including love of self, is a leap of faith to go beyond the master-slave dialectic and forgo all brutalism and slavishness in your relations with your own self and with others. The prostitute could do this, the underground man could not.
read White Nights next.
learn to not be the underground man, also. Starts with not blaming others for your problems.
I blame exclusively myself for all the problems of the world
i too am a NEETwizard, and new to reading... is this a good first Dostoevsky book? and perhaps also White Nights as the 2nd like suggests?
I'd read White Nights first. Notes has a first half that might be a bit of a turn off for a new reader.
White nights also has a bit of Dostoevsky's notorious text walls, but I agree it's probably a better starting point
I never blamed other.
I don’t think it’s supposed to be read as some psychological warning because the guy is really more of a charming type of anti-hero in his own right. He has his own moments of talent and he can usually make accurate psychological observations of other people. He’s someone living underground listening to the things people are talking about and doing and reacting to the ideas of his time through a type of peep hole, and he’s usually correct in his judgements and is always striving to dominate with his own viewpoints and win people’s respect. He’s kind of like Ippolit in The Idiot. He wants to win other people’s respect and admiration, but in his own way that he feels he has complete control over, and Myshkin praises those sentiments basically as a stand in for Dosto’s own judgments. It’s an extreme work of personalism trying to humiliate individualists or rational egoists through them being unable to even imagine such an extreme example of someone unwilling to submit to any outside idea of control or social reform, but most importantly seduced by social comfort. His final rejection of Lisa is tragic, but that’s the point, it shows that he can’t be bought by anything, it’s something Sam Harris could never imagine, a man’s complete resistance of everything, but most importantly not from mental illness or delusion, because the Underground Man is never deluded about himself, it’s simply from the pleasure of resistance
>As for what concerns me in particular I have only in my life carried to an extreme what you have not dared to carry halfway, and what’s more, you have taken your cowardice for good sense, and have found comfort in deceiving yourselves. So that perhaps, after all, there is more life in me than in you. Look into it more carefully!
>never deluded about himself
>breaks down when he realizes he pushed the prostitute away unwillingly after trying to seem "superior", as he sees it
Stop reading yourself into the text
But that would just show his extreme honesty. If he was satisfied and proud of himself for rejecting Lisa, then he would be deluded. The fact that he was emotionally disturbed just shows his emotional intensity, it’s the proof of the concentrated life in him
Yes he’s basically an extreme masochist. But he tortures himself because the sense of control is more pleasurable than anything that could be given to him or won through the judgment of others. Even if he won people’s respect, he’d probably find a way to deride the people that gave it to him by implying that they are degrading themselves for a louse like him. He’s the exact opposite of the sadist. Remember that the sadist is always a servant, usually of a type of ‘good’ ‘natural order’. Thus the sadist always appears as a good reasonable person. The masochist always appears as ridiculous and self-obsessed. It’s the sadist that demands harmony in servitude of an idea that he places higher than himself and strives towards, it’s satanism. The sadist is a hypnotizer and a bargainer, he sees other people as having reality, but only according to their abilities and wants, he drains people of their reality in service of his idol of goodness and harmony. The masochist’s crime is that he sees no one as having reality or existence, not even himself, but this makes him utterly incapable of being a servant of anything, thus he’s the only one with any real sense of control, he pulls the whole universe down to his level, and gives reality to every action through that, he’s the only one capable of giving reality to people because no one can be used for anything according to his system, and that’s what the Underground Man represents as an extreme.
Did you read a different book?. The whole point of the novel is that the underground man is miserable and lying to himself to cope, he even admits as much at several times. He also clearly cares a lot about what other people think, as shown by his frequent fantasying about being praised and loved.
How does that even make sense as a book idea? A book about a miserable man isn’t entertaining, and his exploits are supposed to be ridiculous and petty in a comical way as opposed to sad. His explanations are supposed to be impressive by the extreme pettiness but grounded and well defended. Dosto’s characters are supposed to be respected as if they have a life of their own, that’s the most important thing, and the Underground Man is an extreme example of that. He has his losses but his position also allows him his own strange type of victories where life always finds a way and can’t be easily reduced to any type of mathematical formula
There's two points. First that the basis for human happiness and misery is irrational, not rational, and that making a rational utopia (a "crystal palace") will not solve the human condition. Second that the happiness or misery of the human condition requires an irrational leap of faith, either into love, which the prostitute does, or into misery where you drink to spite your liver (and cultivate slights from your friends, and honour duels walkng on the sidewalk etc.).
none of that matters except your NEET exit plan. if you don't need one literally none of it matters and people are salty.
I've reread Crime and Punishment some time ago and Marmeladov instantly made me think of Underground Man
he's literally me frfr
>dude I also think i'm smarter than everyone despite nothing pointing towards that
>DUDE i also just think about what others think about me all day long
Why are incels like this?
He didn’t think he was smarter than everyone, he thought he was morally superior because all his friends in school sucked off the rich kid. That’s the consistent theme, everyone in his era of early capitalism and the rising middle class compromising themselves to gain advantages and in the act they lose any reality or sense of self (consciousness). That’s why there’s the whole thing about a utopian city where everyone’s wants and needs are meant, he would instead defile it just to prove that he’s alive and free and can’t be bought or sold
>He didn’t think he was smarter than everyone
You should try actually readding the book anon. specifically part 2. you could probably have a real discussion about it then
No, you’re moronic and mixing it up with gay millennial movies. He’s not a le intellectual. He just liked books and literature when he was young because there was more reality and life in the stories than the people around him worshipping capital and their own self interests. He wasn’t some intellectual misanthropic people hater, he literally says he didn’t have the courage to hate. He gives up reading and goes out picking random fights with people to try to have legitimate experiences and interactions, constantly pushing himself and others beyond what’s acceptable according to social transactions. You think like a fat cow
This is entirely fanfiction that disregards the actually views he states in the book. You should try actually reading it instead of living in you own little world
You’re pathetic
and you have nothing of substance to say
I gave you two paragraphs. Also this is me
I literally wrote the most out of anyway ITT and you just have gay ass meme brain moron shit. Just go trans already
NTA. Just to say I appreciate your effort posts, anon. Glad to see someone push back against lazy didactical readings of it.
Except you're lacking in all the cynical wit and profound dark insight, his only redeeming qualities . Shame, that.
Anon are you cleaning your penis?
I'm stroking it.
why is such an old book by a russian still being read, life's so much different nowadays right?
Read it years ago, it was literally me
Read it now, it was literally me
Will read it in the future, and it'll still be literally me