Not OP, but yes, it does work. If you ignore some hiccups here and there. For example, it's hard to grab a corner of a window in some software. Some programs sometimes just hang and you get that wait/force quit pop up.
Never happened on X tho.
the only problem remaining with wayland is nvidia, no? maybe simple screensharing but theres workarounds, and proves X is an archaic privacy nightmare. im stuck using X on fedora 40 for now because im not a moron with an amd gpu, but i can tell it feels laggy slow and shitty compared to wayland which is still a flickering nightmare for me, but that wont be the case in a month so i really dont undertstand why IQfy hates on gayland all the time
Eclipse IDE would randomly crash on my job laptop until I switched to xorg session. But yet a again, we can't expect an intelligent remark from a tranime poster.
In mine it doesn't, installed hyperland and it crashes if monitor loses signal for a few ms what happens a lot, kinda slow too. Xorg simply works much better, at my other computer it was even worse, the cursor inverted and clicking weirdly.
>look at how they added a 3rd "X Client" ... while Wayland has just 2 clients...
But that's accurate, it's meant to represent the software that doesn't work on Wayland.
>look at how they added a 3rd "X Client" to make X11 more complex?
Doesn't this image do the exact same thing by showing every individual Wayland compositor but not doing the saem for X11?
The thing is: we just need a server that has the same capabilities as wayland but acts as a central server like xorg. I truly believe that X has some problems that cannot be extended simply.
You can't escape the legacy. X11 has been the standards for almost all of PC history.
As someone who earnestly tried to use Wayland for a long ass time, I really don't see how it becomes "finished" when something as basic as screensharing still doesn't work in the 2024th year of our Lord.
I'm sympathetic to criticisms of the X11 design, but I don't see how wayland solves them in a practical way.
wayland doesn't support screensharing, desktop portals do. So those applications factually support wayland but still cant screenshare. Desktop portal is not part of wayland.
have they added a feature to disable compositing yet? oh? no? it's built-in to the protocol and can't ever be removed? damn i wonder why theres not enough developer interest to complete such a genius system
I give wayland an honest try every major system update. It has been six years since I started, and wayland still is not ready. This is also giving wayland a free pass for the fact that I'll need to rewrite all the code I've written for myself against sway, specifically, and not wayland as a whole, which will take weeks, and that I'll need to code my own replacements for things wayland is still lacking.
Even two fricking years after the first rube-goldberg protocol was added for fractional scaling, which lets them kind-of-sort-of approach where Windows was a decade ago, implementations are still trying to get it working. X11 may have its problems but a set of protocols that insist on communicating in imaginary logical pixels with no relationship to anything real is not a good place to start building a replacement. They should have cut their losses a decade ago and started a Wayland 2 with the worst mistakes removed before anyone tried to adopt it. They still have time to do that before anyone actually does adopt it.
Works perfectly fine for me for years now. Sounds like skill issues. Have you guys tried not being moronic? Maybe Linux is just too hard for you. You should probably just use Windows.
I mean, given the choice between Windows and Wayland, high DPI, colour profiles, and global hotkeys only work on one of them. Though I have other choices. Wayland is fine if you're okay with something worse than Windows though.
I tried Wayland (with Gnome) just yesterday and in all honestly between Gnome being shit and Wayland being garbage I had one of the most traumatic computer experiences in life.
It's no surprise that Waylandtards are troons, leftists, mentally unstable losers and other human tragedies. They are constantly gaslighting each other than their "solution" to Linux is actually good while they suffer. I pity these people...
the only problem remaining with wayland is nvidia, no? maybe simple screensharing but theres workarounds, and proves X is an archaic privacy nightmare. im stuck using X on fedora 40 for now because im not a moron with an amd gpu, but i can tell it feels laggy slow and shitty compared to wayland which is still a flickering nightmare for me, but that wont be the case in a month so i really dont undertstand why IQfy hates on gayland all the time
what's broken with nvidia? it works ok for me at the moment, I need to make some changes to where hibernate writes (the default is to write to /tmp, which is moronic because that gets wiped on power off. need to expand swap first though) but other than that it seems okay)
the lack of explicit sync causes out of order frames on xwayland apps, mainly games for me. the 555 drivers will hopefully fix that in a few days, but i might need plasma 6.1 in june for it to be completely fixed, not sure yet
>proves X is an archaic privacy nightmare
even when you switch to wayland you will not take the measurement to secure your system and malware will still be able to screenshot your system even on wayland. Simple question: do you make your .bashrc read only and how many wayland users do that? the answer is no you dont and 0 wayland users do that. So dont come with that bullshit argument.
>can't do fractional scaling
X can do """fractional""" scaling, though calling it fractional scaling at all is a misnomer and comes from Wayland's bizarre decision to use logical CSS pixels as their wire format. This means that each fake wayland pixel becomes a fraction of a real physical pixel, hence the "fractional" part. The entire idea of tying your display protocol to a rule of thumb like this is moronic and shows that the Wayland devs are incapable of sane decision making.
What X has no real support for is multiple monitors with different DPIs. So programs that care (which should be all of them, but sadly it's not) just query physical monitor sizes and are mostly correct most of the time. That sounds bad, but the current state with Wayland is even worse: you can't even do a single monitor at a "fractional" scale well all of the time. 2+ years after the fractional scaling protocol landed and implementations are still buggy and incomplete.
Extending X to do per display fractional scaling would be trivial. It just means exposing a separate DPI value for each display.
Considering Wayland took so long to fix their own DPI protocol, it could have been fixed in X within the same time.
There's just no coordinated effort to do it, because all these devs think Wayland is the cool new thing.
Oh yeah, definitely. If anything fixing the mistakes baked into Wayland right now would take even more effort than fixing X. The entire Wayland protocol is based on a really shaky foundation of made up logical pixels. I don't think it was that bad of an idea to try 16 years ago, but it was pretty obvious to everyone except gnome early on that logical pixels were a bad idea. Wayland would be much further along if it cut out gnome and made a Wayland2 10-12 years ago. Unfortunately for any project that takes input from gnomes, the core focus is on removing features.
I'm having a nightmare with wayland precisely because of fractional scaling. I cannot understand why running firefox under xwayland fixes broken fonts instead of doing it natively through wayland. It's a complete mess.
I can always get blamed for not buying a 4k monitor, but goddamn, I just want 125% scaling to work in the current year.
The problem with this shit is that there's always someone opposing some new feature, so it basically becomes development hell.
At some point we should be able to collectively agree to tell those subhumans to frick off from where they came, couldn't we?
I don't know why but every single time I see someone seething about Wayland I just see them with their crumb-covered keyboard hunched over typing angrily because their stupid wallpaper changing program doesn't work on Wayland and they are literally too lazy to google "wayland wallpaper picker" so they sit their calling people trannies.
>wAyLaNd BrEaKs EvErYtHiNg
Say what you want about Windows 7 refugees but at least they aren't lazy and can try installing something new to try.
>too lazy to google "wayland wallpaper picker"
Funny you used that as an example, because there isn't a "wayland" wallpaper picker. There's a sway/wlroots wallpaper picker, a gnome wallpaper picker (though this is true even on X because gnome is shit), and a kde wallpaper picker.
Yes, Wayland is a protocol, it doesn't package your x11 utilities. That's why you use a wayland compositor and the distro-specific packages to customize your system.
I'm just waiting for the nvida gpu fix and I'll move over. The problem with wayland was moron leadership and luckily they got bullied into doing the most basic aspect of software development which is listen to your end users.
Year after year, I still haven't been able to find a simple answer for this... why start from scratch? Why not just strip out the obsolete shit from the X11 protocol (primitive drawing commands, etc), add in just what's needed (fractional scaling, multi monitor support), then once it's all settled out, call it X12? Why spend *fourteen fricking years* reinventing the wheel?
The real question now is why they didn't restart from scratch again when it became obvious that Wayland's technical issues were causing adoption to stagnate. If they'd restarted from scratch with lessons learned from wayland in 2012-2013, they'd have easily overtaken where wayland is right now. It would have been bad for confidence in the project, but so has the last 15 years of continuous technical incompetence.
x has too much legacy code and it's hard to work with, removing 1 thing can cause 500 other things to break. This is what actual programmers that have worked with it say, even though people on this board claim it's false kek.
The pcsx2 dev (the one behind duckstation too) hates wayland, but he said x was so fricking bad codewise and wasn't worth working with either. This is basically what I hear everyone everywhere say.
Basically both suck and a switch to something else should have happened a long time ago, though it seems wayland will be the defacto going into the future. It's true it's been around for a while too, but it's only actually been in a usable state only recently with devs switching over.
I'm going to say right here that both x11 and wayland are some of the reasons why people still use windows, besides program compatibility. I'm not sure how we got to 2024 and we still have this trash.
It's a pick your poison type situation. X will shit the bed for certain tasks while wayland won't, and wayland will shit the bed for certain tasks that x won't.
I think x is fine for most usecases still, but it's going to be obsolete if wayland is fully completed.
but yes this is something that should have happened a long time ago. The fact the wayland trannies and xhomosexuals are arguing about this in 2024 just shows how poor this was all planned out, but it does seem to be exclusive to this board kek. Only on IQfy will you find autists with nothing better to do arguing over useless shit like this.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm at the point at which wayland has a few more shortcomings than xorg, but to have a good experience on xorg, I have to toss away a monitor.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Most people I know are using wayland for the same reasons, even if they're having certain issues. Depending on the issues you're having, I think there's certain workarounds you can do on x, iirc people here were posting about using multiple x instances or some shit to get around each monitor having a different refresh rate lmao, but the reality is 99% of people don't have time for hacky bullshit like this when wayland just works, and that's only for 1 issue.
I like the fact that fedora is using wayland by default though for kde and more people are switching over. Hopefully the major issues with it are fixed in the upcoming years. I'm still on x and have no need for wayland right now, but I will be using it for my next setup even if it has certain issues.
I don't think it will take that long for xwayland stuff to not be necessary
what is there now that needs xwayland and has no wayland equivalent?
last thing I have on xwayland is chromium and that was reintroduced as a regression, they support it
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>what is there now that needs xwayland and has no wayland equivalent?
Still some of the toolkits haven't moved. They won't move until someone pays for the effort to move (or does the work).
And they won't be ripping out the code for X. They've got other platforms to support too.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
which ones and what software uses them that doesn't have an equivalent on a different toolkit that does support wayland?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
wine
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
looks like 9.0 added initial wayland driver support but not feature complete, I don't have any need for wine but that's a fair answer
You can't escape the legacy. X11 has been the standards for almost all of PC history.
you might be right, so if you would, please name some x11 software with no equivalent on wayland
some other thread someone also mentioned an ssh feature where you can have a graphical window displayed on your local, but it's being run and rendered on the remote
not useful to me but kind of neat and not something wayland can do by design (for better or worse)
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
You can't escape the legacy. X11 has been the standards for almost all of PC history.
X11 >how do i change my wallpaper? >"you download a wallpaper changing package" >oh ok thanks
Wayland >how do i change my wallpaper >"you use a compositor like hyprland that ships with a wallpaper utility" >no you can't make me download that, it's stupid and breaks everything, more like gayland amirite
I'm going to stop replying to you seething autists because at this point it's not even valid criticism, you're a joke.
Works on my (and yours, don't lie) machine.
So does X. And it works better. Must feel really bad to be outperformed by a almost 40 year old software.
Not OP, but yes, it does work. If you ignore some hiccups here and there. For example, it's hard to grab a corner of a window in some software. Some programs sometimes just hang and you get that wait/force quit pop up.
Never happened on X tho.
it's completely unusable on nvidia and a lot of functionality is missing
This, maybe when explicit rendering comes out in driver 560 it becomes somewhat usable, but for now it's a complete glitch fest.
As a non-poorgay I have an Nvidia GPU.
Eclipse IDE would randomly crash on my job laptop until I switched to xorg session. But yet a again, we can't expect an intelligent remark from a tranime poster.
>Eclipse IDE would randomly crash on my job laptop
amd? works on my machine
frick gayland and all but why in god's name are you subjecting yourself to eclipse
In mine it doesn't, installed hyperland and it crashes if monitor loses signal for a few ms what happens a lot, kinda slow too. Xorg simply works much better, at my other computer it was even worse, the cursor inverted and clicking weirdly.
Don't believe their lies.
without lies wayland dies
lol, saving that one
Ok
>look at how they added a 3rd "X Client" ... while Wayland has just 2 clients...
But that's accurate, it's meant to represent the software that doesn't work on Wayland.
>look at how they added a 3rd "X Client" to make X11 more complex?
Doesn't this image do the exact same thing by showing every individual Wayland compositor but not doing the saem for X11?
No. There arr two actual clients for each in the bottom half.
The thing is: we just need a server that has the same capabilities as wayland but acts as a central server like xorg. I truly believe that X has some problems that cannot be extended simply.
>dwm.exe and explorer.exe blocks your path
broken troon trash
As someone who earnestly tried to use Wayland for a long ass time, I really don't see how it becomes "finished" when something as basic as screensharing still doesn't work in the 2024th year of our Lord.
I'm sympathetic to criticisms of the X11 design, but I don't see how wayland solves them in a practical way.
screensharing works. Its just apps you use doesnt support wayland
wayland doesn't support screensharing, desktop portals do. So those applications factually support wayland but still cant screenshare. Desktop portal is not part of wayland.
Wayland fixes this
cope
have they added a feature to disable compositing yet? oh? no? it's built-in to the protocol and can't ever be removed? damn i wonder why theres not enough developer interest to complete such a genius system
I give wayland an honest try every major system update. It has been six years since I started, and wayland still is not ready. This is also giving wayland a free pass for the fact that I'll need to rewrite all the code I've written for myself against sway, specifically, and not wayland as a whole, which will take weeks, and that I'll need to code my own replacements for things wayland is still lacking.
Even two fricking years after the first rube-goldberg protocol was added for fractional scaling, which lets them kind-of-sort-of approach where Windows was a decade ago, implementations are still trying to get it working. X11 may have its problems but a set of protocols that insist on communicating in imaginary logical pixels with no relationship to anything real is not a good place to start building a replacement. They should have cut their losses a decade ago and started a Wayland 2 with the worst mistakes removed before anyone tried to adopt it. They still have time to do that before anyone actually does adopt it.
Works perfectly fine for me for years now. Sounds like skill issues. Have you guys tried not being moronic? Maybe Linux is just too hard for you. You should probably just use Windows.
I mean, given the choice between Windows and Wayland, high DPI, colour profiles, and global hotkeys only work on one of them. Though I have other choices. Wayland is fine if you're okay with something worse than Windows though.
Works fine on my machine but X is more stable.
>works fine but is less stable than 40 year old software
Doesn't really work then does it?
>in development since 1991
>still shit
Can only work with what you got
Works on my machine
>linux
>it just werks
Nobody here believes you
And yet still better than the two alternatives
I tried Wayland (with Gnome) just yesterday and in all honestly between Gnome being shit and Wayland being garbage I had one of the most traumatic computer experiences in life.
It's no surprise that Waylandtards are troons, leftists, mentally unstable losers and other human tragedies. They are constantly gaslighting each other than their "solution" to Linux is actually good while they suffer. I pity these people...
the only problem remaining with wayland is nvidia, no? maybe simple screensharing but theres workarounds, and proves X is an archaic privacy nightmare. im stuck using X on fedora 40 for now because im not a moron with an amd gpu, but i can tell it feels laggy slow and shitty compared to wayland which is still a flickering nightmare for me, but that wont be the case in a month so i really dont undertstand why IQfy hates on gayland all the time
>has the shitty GPU that doesn't work
>shit talks the GPU that works
weird post
>proves X is an archaic privacy nightmare
Bullshit argument.
what's broken with nvidia? it works ok for me at the moment, I need to make some changes to where hibernate writes (the default is to write to /tmp, which is moronic because that gets wiped on power off. need to expand swap first though) but other than that it seems okay)
the lack of explicit sync causes out of order frames on xwayland apps, mainly games for me. the 555 drivers will hopefully fix that in a few days, but i might need plasma 6.1 in june for it to be completely fixed, not sure yet
>proves X is an archaic privacy nightmare
even when you switch to wayland you will not take the measurement to secure your system and malware will still be able to screenshot your system even on wayland. Simple question: do you make your .bashrc read only and how many wayland users do that? the answer is no you dont and 0 wayland users do that. So dont come with that bullshit argument.
what's wayland?
in development since 2024
>can't handle different refresh rates
>can't hand vrr with multiple displays
>can't do fractional scaling
in conclusion, no matter what you choose on Linux, always something will be broken
>>can't handle different refresh rates
false
>>can't do fractional scaling
false, it's only gtk that cant and gtk cant do that on wayland either
>can't do fractional scaling
X can do """fractional""" scaling, though calling it fractional scaling at all is a misnomer and comes from Wayland's bizarre decision to use logical CSS pixels as their wire format. This means that each fake wayland pixel becomes a fraction of a real physical pixel, hence the "fractional" part. The entire idea of tying your display protocol to a rule of thumb like this is moronic and shows that the Wayland devs are incapable of sane decision making.
What X has no real support for is multiple monitors with different DPIs. So programs that care (which should be all of them, but sadly it's not) just query physical monitor sizes and are mostly correct most of the time. That sounds bad, but the current state with Wayland is even worse: you can't even do a single monitor at a "fractional" scale well all of the time. 2+ years after the fractional scaling protocol landed and implementations are still buggy and incomplete.
Extending X to do per display fractional scaling would be trivial. It just means exposing a separate DPI value for each display.
Considering Wayland took so long to fix their own DPI protocol, it could have been fixed in X within the same time.
There's just no coordinated effort to do it, because all these devs think Wayland is the cool new thing.
Oh yeah, definitely. If anything fixing the mistakes baked into Wayland right now would take even more effort than fixing X. The entire Wayland protocol is based on a really shaky foundation of made up logical pixels. I don't think it was that bad of an idea to try 16 years ago, but it was pretty obvious to everyone except gnome early on that logical pixels were a bad idea. Wayland would be much further along if it cut out gnome and made a Wayland2 10-12 years ago. Unfortunately for any project that takes input from gnomes, the core focus is on removing features.
I'm having a nightmare with wayland precisely because of fractional scaling. I cannot understand why running firefox under xwayland fixes broken fonts instead of doing it natively through wayland. It's a complete mess.
I can always get blamed for not buying a 4k monitor, but goddamn, I just want 125% scaling to work in the current year.
>in development since 2024
What?
Will Nvidia update make Wayland usable?
The problem with this shit is that there's always someone opposing some new feature, so it basically becomes development hell.
At some point we should be able to collectively agree to tell those subhumans to frick off from where they came, couldn't we?
One wonders why Wayland is even a "standard".
I don't know why but every single time I see someone seething about Wayland I just see them with their crumb-covered keyboard hunched over typing angrily because their stupid wallpaper changing program doesn't work on Wayland and they are literally too lazy to google "wayland wallpaper picker" so they sit their calling people trannies.
>wAyLaNd BrEaKs EvErYtHiNg
Say what you want about Windows 7 refugees but at least they aren't lazy and can try installing something new to try.
>too lazy to google "wayland wallpaper picker"
Funny you used that as an example, because there isn't a "wayland" wallpaper picker. There's a sway/wlroots wallpaper picker, a gnome wallpaper picker (though this is true even on X because gnome is shit), and a kde wallpaper picker.
Yes, Wayland is a protocol, it doesn't package your x11 utilities. That's why you use a wayland compositor and the distro-specific packages to customize your system.
I'm just waiting for the nvida gpu fix and I'll move over. The problem with wayland was moron leadership and luckily they got bullied into doing the most basic aspect of software development which is listen to your end users.
I'll switch over to wayland when firefox font rendering gets fixed at 125% scaling
Otherwise it's x11 for me
Year after year, I still haven't been able to find a simple answer for this... why start from scratch? Why not just strip out the obsolete shit from the X11 protocol (primitive drawing commands, etc), add in just what's needed (fractional scaling, multi monitor support), then once it's all settled out, call it X12? Why spend *fourteen fricking years* reinventing the wheel?
The real question now is why they didn't restart from scratch again when it became obvious that Wayland's technical issues were causing adoption to stagnate. If they'd restarted from scratch with lessons learned from wayland in 2012-2013, they'd have easily overtaken where wayland is right now. It would have been bad for confidence in the project, but so has the last 15 years of continuous technical incompetence.
x has too much legacy code and it's hard to work with, removing 1 thing can cause 500 other things to break. This is what actual programmers that have worked with it say, even though people on this board claim it's false kek.
The pcsx2 dev (the one behind duckstation too) hates wayland, but he said x was so fricking bad codewise and wasn't worth working with either. This is basically what I hear everyone everywhere say.
Basically both suck and a switch to something else should have happened a long time ago, though it seems wayland will be the defacto going into the future. It's true it's been around for a while too, but it's only actually been in a usable state only recently with devs switching over.
I'm going to say right here that both x11 and wayland are some of the reasons why people still use windows, besides program compatibility. I'm not sure how we got to 2024 and we still have this trash.
It's a pick your poison type situation. X will shit the bed for certain tasks while wayland won't, and wayland will shit the bed for certain tasks that x won't.
I think x is fine for most usecases still, but it's going to be obsolete if wayland is fully completed.
but yes this is something that should have happened a long time ago. The fact the wayland trannies and xhomosexuals are arguing about this in 2024 just shows how poor this was all planned out, but it does seem to be exclusive to this board kek. Only on IQfy will you find autists with nothing better to do arguing over useless shit like this.
I'm at the point at which wayland has a few more shortcomings than xorg, but to have a good experience on xorg, I have to toss away a monitor.
Most people I know are using wayland for the same reasons, even if they're having certain issues. Depending on the issues you're having, I think there's certain workarounds you can do on x, iirc people here were posting about using multiple x instances or some shit to get around each monitor having a different refresh rate lmao, but the reality is 99% of people don't have time for hacky bullshit like this when wayland just works, and that's only for 1 issue.
I like the fact that fedora is using wayland by default though for kde and more people are switching over. Hopefully the major issues with it are fixed in the upcoming years. I'm still on x and have no need for wayland right now, but I will be using it for my next setup even if it has certain issues.
Wayland gays will maintain X forever, because they need XWayland. Maybe they'll find an excuse to break standalone X.
I don't think it will take that long for xwayland stuff to not be necessary
what is there now that needs xwayland and has no wayland equivalent?
last thing I have on xwayland is chromium and that was reintroduced as a regression, they support it
>what is there now that needs xwayland and has no wayland equivalent?
Still some of the toolkits haven't moved. They won't move until someone pays for the effort to move (or does the work).
And they won't be ripping out the code for X. They've got other platforms to support too.
which ones and what software uses them that doesn't have an equivalent on a different toolkit that does support wayland?
wine
looks like 9.0 added initial wayland driver support but not feature complete, I don't have any need for wine but that's a fair answer
you might be right, so if you would, please name some x11 software with no equivalent on wayland
some other thread someone also mentioned an ssh feature where you can have a graphical window displayed on your local, but it's being run and rendered on the remote
not useful to me but kind of neat and not something wayland can do by design (for better or worse)
You can't escape the legacy. X11 has been the standards for almost all of PC history.
I could say the same about you
No you couldn't
I just might
?q=example
#example
What?
X11
>how do i change my wallpaper?
>"you download a wallpaper changing package"
>oh ok thanks
Wayland
>how do i change my wallpaper
>"you use a compositor like hyprland that ships with a wallpaper utility"
>no you can't make me download that, it's stupid and breaks everything, more like gayland amirite
I'm going to stop replying to you seething autists because at this point it's not even valid criticism, you're a joke.
What the frick is a wallpaper changing package?
technically any distro, i guess?
I guess you could say the same thing about image viewers.
>what the frick is an image viewer???
See how dumb that is.
>See how dumb that is
I don't actually
Instead of making something good, it's purpose was to be less shit than X11
X11 is still better so they failed
They both suck, but nothing sucks more than X11. If you disagree you're a filthy casual who has never written code
>you're a filthy casual who has never written code
Writing your own WM for Xorg is trivial, writing your own Wayland compositor is endless pain.
writing your own wm for wlroots otoh is trivial again
Wayland works better on my machine than b***hass X11
Why finish it tho?
Most of that time, Wayland wasn't seeing very heavy development. Development has really only picked up in the past few years or so.
Because it was unusable trash. I'm not trolling, it jut was.
Why does Arch endorse Wayland?