Is the Trinity a complex coping mechanism for dealing with the fact that the Bible makes contradictory statements about God?
How can Jesus both be the Son of God and God at the same time?
 CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
 |
CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
Is the Trinity a complex coping mechanism for dealing with the fact that the Bible makes contradictory statements about God?
>How can Jesus both be the Son of God and God at the same time?
Being the second person of the Trinity.
Wouldnt that mean that Jesus is the son of the Father, and not the son of God, since all three are God? If you say Jesus is the son of God then who is God? Is he the son of the holy spirit too? Is he the son of himself?
>Wouldnt that mean that the conclusion is the son of the premise, and not the son of the point, since all three are points? If you say a premise is the son of a point then who is the point? Is he the son of the argument too? Is he the son of himself?
?
>contradictory statements about God
it only seems that way because the church has forgotten about the children of God and no longer recognizes those for who the sacrifice of the Christ was required.
Jesus was not sacrificed, Jesus was murdered. A sacrifice of flesh is done on an altar and the flesh must be burnt. Depending on the type of sacrifice, it must also be eaten. The smell of the sacrifice is supposed to be a pleasant aroma for God. That is why sacrifices are done only with clean edible animals like goats or sheep or bulls.
The only people who accept the sacrifice of a human being are demons because they eat human flesh and enjoy the smell of their burning flesh.
John 3:16
>For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I think the word sacrifice was appropriate because the perfect God choose to die in order for the children of God to become one with God. It was done because the children of God are so loved by God that the perfect God was made a willing sacrifice for us.
>John 3:16,
>Church of the Eternal Torturer, version 1.0
For the Father bit of the Trinity so loved humanity that he* tortures them all (including children) in fire for eternity, apart from a tiny proportion who are exempt because they worship and grovel before him in precisely the correct way, regardless of how immoral they have been in their life time.
*The Trinity has a penis and testicles.
>The Trinity has a penis and testicles
The seed of good news has the power to impregnate what it deems beutiful. The masculine represents the power/ability (muscle and strength). The female represents beuty (the motivation). The knowledge is the dna, or the logical code, that manifests the strength and the motivation. Ability and motivation come together, and a new code is transmitted.
I will pray for you. Your alienation is a product of your demonic culture--created and nurtured by the Synagogue of Satan. It feels good willfully blaspheme and disingenuously describe--only because you are so twisted by this awful world by men consumed by evil.
John also said that Jesus was the word and was with God in the beginning, but then say Jesus was a begotten son. And the only proof the new testament give that Jesus was the begotten son of God is a psalm from David in which David is saying that God told him that he was God's begotten son, but he new testament writers twist it to make it seem like God is saying this to Jesus. As always taking the old testament out of context to fool the people who never bother reading it.
The truth:
>David in Psalm 2:7-9:
I will tell of the decree:
Yahweh said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
You shall break them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.”
The lie:
>Hebrews 1:3-6
After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
For to which of the angels did God ever say:
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
>Paul in Hebrews 5:5
So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”;
Paul in Acts 13:32-33:
And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm,
“‘You are my Son,
today I have begotten you.’
>In Hebrews 1:3-6 Paul continues saying:
Or again,
“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?
Yet this is also a lie. This was said by God to David about Solomon who would be the King after him and build the first temple.
>God to David in 2 samuel 7:12-14:
When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men.
In Hebews 5:6 Paul also continues saying that God told Jesus he was a priest in the order of Mechizedek, but this is also a lie. God said this to David.
Verse praising King David in Psalm 110:4-5:
Yahweh has sworn
and will not change his mind,
“You are a priest forever
after the order of Melchizedek.”
Yahweh is at your right hand;
he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath.
Everything that Paul says is a lie and every time he quotes the old testament he is is twisting the words out of context to fool people who are not familiar with the scriptures to make it seem like it is talking about Jesus. There are many examples of this all over the new testament. I would dare saying that not a single time the old testament is quoted in the new testament is it not being taken out of context and twisted to shoehorn Jesus into it. Even Jesus himself does this in the gospels when he twists Psalm 110:1 to claim the Messiah was not prophecied to be Son of David, yet the same gospels try hard to trace Jesus lineage to King David to prove he is the messiah, when he actually isn't because his real father was not Joseph son of David. If his dad is not descendant of David then Jesus is not a Son of David and cannot be Messiah. All prophesies point out to the Messiah being son of King David, yet Jesus himself tried to fool the Pharisees with a gotcha question in Matthew 22:41-46 to claim the Messiah is not Son of David.
The entire new testament is a fraud and a forgery and not the word of the Most High Yahweh. Not a single writer of the new testament was a prophet of God or ever met or heard the voice of the Almighty.
The children of God, for whom the Christ was sent to save, have walked the earth since the fall. If the israelite perceives that their text is not exactly correct regarding the redeemer of the blood of God then their text has failed on account of the generations of failed men who surely tried their best to preserve it.
Your text quotes theirs, not the other way around. Your Christ is claiming to be the son of their God, your testament claims to come from the same source as their testament, so if there is a contradiction or discrepancy between the testaments, it is your testament who has to explain it. The Hebrew scriptures were already firmly established and well documented when your Greek writings began to be written.
God does not need blood to forgive a man, he is God, he does as he pleases. God forgives whoever he wants. Forgiveness comes from him, not from your belief in a man or from drinking his blood. The children of God are called Israelites, and his chosen branch are the sons of David. From them will the promised Messiah be born and rule the world. The only savior who can save mankind is the God who created them, the Almighty Yahweh Sabaoth.
The israelites killed the christ because they would not see the Kingdom of Heaven or accept the circumcision prepared for them for their salvation.
The Christ has not been born yet. When a son of David sits on a throne in Jerusalem and starts cleansing the world of evil and wickedness and starts blessing the righteous and humble people of the world and teaching the world about the ways of Yahweh and you see the holy people among the Israelites emigrating back to Israel and dwelling in peace there then you will know the Christ has been born.
Shem is not Melchizedek, just sayin'.
Why does that girl have a idol made of gold around her neck?
JW go away
Idolaters get destroyed every single time God arises from his throne to purge wickedness from the world.
Bravo you admit to denying that Jesus is Lord
Jehovah Witnesses aren't Christians. You can pick them out when they call crosses Idolatry. They think it is pagan for some reason and that Jesus was on a torture stake like a medieval punishment. They outright deny the historical facts of crucifixion.
The blindness of the israelites is towards the children of God to whom they are a spiritual poison in the communal wells where they endure. Rebellion against the throne of heaven is the state of israelites.
>Mumbo Jumbo.
Since you refuse to open your eyes then let me spell it out for you
What does that has to do with you worshipping a false god from a fraudulent book who claims to be the son of the god of the people who you hate and want to kill?
Jews deny that any children of God exist besides themselves and so deny God. Any who deny God are liars and should be dealt with as such by the righteous.
The Israelites exist and are lost and scattered through the world. A child of God obeys the laws of God that God gave them so they could become holy and righteous and pleasant to his eyes. Whoever denies the Law of God denies God and will be purged from the land. You do not serve God, you serve a man who came to tell you to abandon the Law of God and turn your back on him.
>Deuteronomy 6:24-25
And Yahweh our God commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear him so he can continue to bless us and preserve our lives, as he has done to this day. For we will be counted as righteous when we obey all the commands Yahweh our God has given us.’
If you recognize the children of God then you follow the Christ and accept his sacrifice for the blood of the fallen. If not then you have no place in the Kingdom of Heaven for you are yet an unrepentant child of the devil.
A child of the devil is one who disobeys God.
>A child of the devil is one who disobeys God.
the perfect definition for any israelite.
>Jesus was murdered
Jesus is dead, i.e. the Trinity is now a Duality?
God can not die but the perfect God died. God took us in and absorbed our imperfection because the children of God are loved by God.
>Jesus is dead
He is risen. Did you not hear that he has a penis and testicles? I showed you a wiener three times, and you still deny it. Little children giggle in sex Ed class, but the Lord knows the power of procreation.
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
Now go eat your salad seth.
>How can a conclusion be both the conclusion of an argumant, and a premise at the same time.
Because it was formulated as response to critics rightly pointing out that Christian veneration of Jesus as divine is polytheism. As for why they created the holy spirit in there instead of just having a dual divinity. Well one was to make the excuse look less obvious, but two was to attract the perverted masses of the Roman empire who had such a strong fetish for the number three that if they saw a triangle they would stop everything they were doing to jerk off.
There are no contradictions in the Bible, that picture isn't Scripture nor is the typical trinitarian explanation Scripture for example.
>How can Jesus both be the Son of God and God at the same time?
How not? I'm not going to defend theologies or theological doctrines though. I also see no need to defend Scripture, since defending God's Word is like defending a wolf against a lamb, it's just not necessary.
Jesus is God manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16 KJV). It's not polytheistic, it's one God. Read Exodus 3, who is the angel of the Lord?
Do you really not know? Have you never read what is written?
It wasn't added. It was removed by the occultists and gnostics who denied that Jesus was God and the only begotten Son of God. Origen would be a JW today. You don't have any original manuscripts either, those were copied and replaced long ago. Oldest being best is a fallacy but some of those minority texts aren't nearly as old or reliable as they claim. The text best supported by history, the majority text is the received text, which is the text used by the church through the years and which is what the immensely overwhelming majority of manuscripts agree with and the biggest differences being spellings of names/places. The minority text "critical text" manuscripts don't even agree with each other and the Vaticanus is a forgery and was completely overwritten. Either you believe God preserved his word as he promised, or you call him a liar when he said he would preserve his words and we need these modernists "scholars" and "textual critics" to "rediscover" or "find" God's word.
>There are no contradictions in the Bible
Ooops. Thou shalt not bear false witness, pilgrim.
You should get a real Bible if yours has contradictions.
>He doesn't know
There goes your entire arguments of you're delusional enough to think it hasn't been corrupted
>he can't prove his claim
>asserts it and instantly resorts to logical fallacies
Okay.
>please spoonfeed me on a widely known issue regarding the bible cuz I'm too afraid to look it up and have my entire worldview shattered
(you)
>(you)
(us)
My Muslim friend, read the new testament with an open heart and you'll find the Son of God written on the pages, God bless.
>Either you believe God preserved his word as he promised, or you call him a liar when he said he would preserve his words and we need these modernists "scholars" and "textual critics" to "rediscover" or "find" God's word.
Are you telling me that somewhere out there is a flawless manuscript of the whole Bible? Where?
The received text is based on preserved manuscripts.
>Are you telling me that somewhere out there is a flawless manuscript of the whole Bible?
Are you illiterate? You're no different than the "scholars" and the "textual critics" with what you said.
>Do you really not know?
No. Neither do you
>if they saw a triangle they would stop everything they were doing to jerk off.
kek
Using the concept of godhead as including both a "father" and a "son" is amazingly stupid, because these are intrinsically separate entities in normal usage. I get that people could understand dad and son, but this automatically destroys any chance of their being indivisibly one thing. (Apart from some kind of Thing creature that emerges from the antarctic and kills Snake Pliskin.)
>I have created an imperfect race and now their imperfection offends me
>Oh I know, I'll just send my son (me) to go to earth and die so that I can forgive them for their sins
What the frick was his problem?
The word trinity doesn't exist in the Bible, and the only place where you can find the trinity is in 1st John 5:7-8, which was added in the textus receptus, and doesn't exist in any original manuscript. it was Justinian who made the worship of the trinity a law. meanwhile, the trinity is a pure Egyptian concept, it was brought into the church through Gnostic christians, then made law by Justinian. how did god bless Justinian? He sent a plague that wiped out 50% of the eastern empire, and then raised up the Arabs and israelites out of the desert, and started Islam which is a religion specifically designed to kill trinitarians. It is a purely Gnostic invention.
>How can Jesus both be the Son of God and God at the same time?
He isn't, he is a messenger of God who came to deliver the message of worshipping God alone but some homosexuals decided to worship him as well thus spreading their headcanons like the plague
God protects his messengers and dont let them be slaughtered. He has saved lesser men from dens of lions and burning furnaces. It's hard to believe that Jesus claimed John the Baptist was the greatest man who ever lived yet God allowed him to be beheaded by the command of a wicked woman.
>Psalm 3:5-6
I lay down and slept,
yet I woke up in safety,
for Yahweh was watching over me.
I am not afraid of ten thousand enemies
who surround me on every side.
>Psalm 27:1-4
Yahweh is my light and my salvation
so why should I be afraid?
Yahweh is my fortress, protecting me from danger,
so why should I tremble?
When evil people come to devour me,
when my enemies and foes attack me,
they will stumble and fall.
Though a mighty army surrounds me,
my heart will not be afraid.
Even if I am attacked,
I will remain confident.
>Psalm 91:6-8
Do not dread the disease that stalks in darkness,
nor the disaster that strikes at midday.
Though a thousand fall at your side,
though ten thousand are dying around you,
these evils will not touch you.
Just open your eyes,
and see how the wicked are punished.
If you make Yahweh your refuge,
if you make the Most High your shelter,
no evil will conquer you;
no plague will come near your home.
For he will order his angels
to protect you wherever you go.
They will lift you up with their hands
so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.
You will trample upon lions and cobras;
you will crush fierce lions and serpents under your feet!
Yahweh says, “I will rescue those who love me.
I will protect those who trust in my name.
When they call on me, I will answer;
I will be with them in trouble.
I will rescue and honor them.
I will reward them with a long life
and give them my salvation.”
>He isn't, he is a messenger of good points who came to deliver the message of worshipping good points alone but some homosexuals decided to worship conclusions as well thus spreading their headcanons like the plague
The trinity is an ideological weapon, it's not supposed to make sense it's a way to assert ideological dominance over the faith.. you force yourself to believe in the trinity's "mystery" out of faith and loyalty to the church, or you die.
The Trinity isn't supposed to make sense because it's Constantine's weapon against anyone he didn't like. He could just grab any dissident, tell them to explain the trinity, and there's a 99.999999% chance they're gonna commit a thoughtcrime. Straight to the chopping block!
>The Trinity isn't supposed to make sense because it's Constantine's weapon against anyone he didn't like. He could just grab any dissident, tell them to explain the trinity, and there's a 99.999999% chance they're gonna commit a thoughtcrime. Straight to the chopping block!
The trinity idea predates Constantine by hundreds of years.
>Brethren it is fitting that you should think of Jesus Christ as of God…Second Clement (A.D.150) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.7 pg.517
>For Christ is king, priest, God, Lord, angel and man. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.166
>But so much is written for the sake of proving that Jesus the Christ is the Son of God and His Apostle, being of old the Word, and appearing sometimes in the form of fire, and sometimes in the likeness of angels; but now, by the will of God, having become man for the human race, He endured all the sufferings which the devils instigated the senseless israelites to inflict upon Him. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.184
>He deserves to be worshipped as God and as Christ. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.229
>The Son ministered to the will of the father. Yet, nevertheless, he is God. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.262
>God was put to death, King of Israel slain. Melito (A.D.170) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.8 pg.75 8
>Thus He indicates in clear terms that He is God, and that His advent was in Bethlehem… God, then was made man, and the Lord did Himself save us. Irenaeus (A.D.180) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.507
>He is God in the form of man, stainless, the minister of the father’s will, the word who is God…Clement of Alexandria (A.D.195) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.210
>How can Jesus both be the conclusion of a good point and a good point at the same time?
I think it's all God's message that people can believe all sorts of contradictory things. Why would he give four different accounts of Jesus' life? Because he is trying to teach that man is fallible, and that you shouldn't take any religious teachings at face value. God gave us brains as a gift. To not use them is sacrilege.
Simpler explanation: it's all bullshit.
Yeah exactly
God is on another plane of existence. Much like how we have an Id, Ego, and Super Ego, multiple parts that make our being. The Father begets the Son, and the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father. All are of the same essence, which is God.
>but Constantine
This was the belief of the Early Church Fathers. And the goes back further to the idea of the Two powers in heaven in israeli religious commentary. And Moses wrote of the trinity in Genesis. Such as in Genesis 18 where the Lord shows up to Abraham and tells him what he is going to judge the cities of Sodom. In Genesis 19, the Lord on the Earth is there and receives the judgement from another Lord in the Heavens.
(Genesis 19:24) Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens.
On several occasions does the Angel of the Lord appear in a similar fashion to Abraham, and is identified as God. By Moses IN the burning bush (Exodus 3:2), by Gideon (Judges 6:12), Manoah (Judges 13:22), Balaam (Numbers 22:38), Elijah (2 Kings 1:15), David (1 Chronicles 21:16)...
The mysterious way in which the Angel of the Lord can speak of God in both the first and third person invites reflection. The same can be said of the Spirit of God, which is both distinguished from and identified with God, manifested in such things as the Shekinah cloud. The Angel can appear with or without the glory phenomena of the Spirit. Jesus is correct that no human has seen the Father, we don't know what he actually looks like.
But to wrap things up, the trinity is not a new convention made up by Christians. It was there from the beginning, to Abraham and going down the line. But it was not explicitly said because the israelites kept falling back into Polytheism with foreign deities. It was better to keep things streamlined for the layman.
>we have an Id, Ego, and Super Ego
You seem to be a bit ahead of yourself seeing as how most theories of consciousness can boil down to the Id (sub conscious), Ego, (conscious mind), and Super Ego (higher conscious). Now, you can say that it is just a theory, but it is a far better model to describe how the mind is formulated where you have an underlying drive while a higher operating conscious filters and delineates better actions And then you have a conscious mind that enacts. You are still one being.
I guess it is harder to understand the emanations as a lower dimensional being. God's being isn't constrained in the same way as the Son can speak with authority on the behalf of the Father and act. This also happens a number of times in the OT too.
>it is harder to understand
Once you see that which is of God then the you have witnessed the Kingdom of Heaven. In life, the Christ traveled about curing the blindness and opening the eyes of those who would see God.
>most theories of consciousness can boil down to the Id (sub conscious), Ego, (conscious mind), and Super Ego (higher conscious)
lmfao no they don't
also comparing those to the trinity is partialism i.e. heresy that not that long ago would get you killed
Partialism doesn't exist moron
>partialism
>According to partialism, each Person of the Trinity is 100 percent divine in nature, but God is only God when, where, and if all three Persons are unified.
That is not what I was saying at all. Nor does what I have to say about how the mind is constructed a 1:1 comparison to the trinity. All I am saying is that the separate parts of your being do not constitute multiple people as multiple persons does not make God multiple Gods. Nor did I say that only when all 3 of the trinity together do they make God complete. You are just jumping to more conclusions, again, to make an arguement.
good post.
The emanations of God are God.
It's a way to explain how Jesus can be God despite not being the father as you said, plus the Holy Spirit was already a concept in Judaism, so it made sense to include it. Early Christians were more ambiguous but did use triadic language, for example Justin Martyr who said Christians worship first the father, second the Son (who is the Logos and Wisdom), and third the Spirit. In second century texts there sometimes wasn't a clear division between Jesus and the Spirit. Justin Martyr says that Jesus is a second figure who is called God and Lord in the scriptures, but he doesn't provide a systematic explanation.
The current view of the trinity developed in the late 3rd and early 4th centuries AD, which has each of the three as co-equal, co-eternal hypostases or persons who are one being with one substance. This was still controversial in the 4th century and even Eusebius was uneasy about the definition that was adopted, even though he was a close ally of Constantine and an important Christian scholar. For example, he only accepted the language of co-eternal because he believed all of reality had potential existence in God, he didn't believe Jesus was co-eternal with the father but instead thought he was produced from the father before creation began.
>This was still controversial in the 4th century
What do you mean "still"? People have always been denying the Triune nature of God ever since it was given in the Bible. Also, Eusebius was an Arian as was Constantine, so they actually denied the Trinity since they wanted to deny the divinity of Christ. But the Gospel of John makes it very clear that is what the truth is, meaning that they'd have to deny the Biblical account to maintain their ideas.
>Justin Martyr says that Jesus is a second figure who is called God and Lord in the scriptures, but he doesn't provide a systematic explanation.
You can read
, the Angel of the Lord, which is recognized as God, makes numerous appearances.
It isn't hitting you over the head on the Nature of the per-incarnate Logos.
From Ignatius
>Since, also, there is but one unbegotten Being, God, even the Father; and one only-begotten Son, God, the Word and man; and one Comforter, the Spirit of truth;
>For if there is one God of the universe, the Father of Christ, “of whom are all things;” and one Lord Jesus Christ, our [Lord], “by whom are all things;” and also one Holy Spirit, who wrought in Moses, and in the prophets and apostles;
>arly Christians were more ambiguous but did use triadic language, for example Justin Martyr who said Christians worship first the father, second the Son (who is the Logos and Wisdom), and third the Spirit.
Then there's stuff like this:
>The Son ministered to the will of the father. Yet, nevertheless, he is God. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.262
>Is the Trinity a complex coping mechanism for dealing with the fact that the Bible makes contradictory statements about God?
You can see the deification of Jesus progress for each gospel or book that is younger and younger. Like, in Matthew/Mark, there is no indication that Jesus is God. Then 40 or so years later, John's very first line is about how Jesus is God. But the further you get into John, it says he's not God. Which leads me to believe the beginning of John was added later. Over time, Jesus was slowly deified in order to get more followers. Of course, this creates many problems in the Biblical narrative -- even so far as making the resurrection pointsless.
Of course God is going to rez. It's not a miracle. It's a given. But a simple man, living a sinless life and thus defeating death (sin=death)? That's a miracle.
>tl;dr yes it's a cope to side step blatant contradictions.
>Like, in Matthew/Mark, there is no indication that Jesus is God.
(Mark 1:2-3) As it is written in Isaiah the prophet:
“Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You,
who will prepare Your way.”
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for Him.’”
That didn't take long to find that. It is right there at the beginning of Mark.
Literally nothing about Jesus being God in there, try again.
1This is the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2As it is written in Isaiah the prophet:
“Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You,
who will prepare Your way.”
3“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for Him.’”
4John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5People went out to him from all of Jerusalem and the countryside of Judea. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
6John was clothed in camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. 7And he began to proclaim: “After me will come One more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8I baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
9In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10As soon as Jesus came up out of the water, He saw the heavens breaking open and the Spirit descending on Him like a dove. 11And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
I just kept it short to what John the Baptist was saying as it called back to Isaiah 40:3:
The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the LORD; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God."
John is telling you that the prophecy of the Lord coming was in motion, and fulfilled by Jesus coming to him.
this is like qanon level convoluted.
Meanwhile Jesus just says "The Father is greater than I". They can't both be God if one is greater than the other.
Jesus was even straight up accused of making himself out to be God (John 10:31-37). Instead of agreeing with his accusers, he disagreed and defended himself against the allegation citing psalm 82 and saying he was just as much god as they were.
>qanon level convoluted
This is a simple cause and effect that John was just retelling the prophecy of Isaiah that the Lord was coming.
>"The Father is greater than I"
Greater than him in position, but not in essence. He sits at the right hand of the Father.
>he disagreed and defended himself against the allegation citing psalm 82 and saying he was just as much god as they were
What about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
He doesn't deny anything. Calling back to earlier in John.
(John 14:10-11) “Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
I think it just shows how disingenuous you are to convoluted this point with your own narrative and calling John's proclamation, qanon reasoning.
This calls back to John 5:18
This was why the israelites were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
Me and my father are technically equals as we are both adults. I still tend to listen to him though, because he is my father. The same is true with Jesus and God.
Good reference. I always like Luke 18:19. "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."
The reason why the man called Jesus good is precisely because He is God. This is what is being emphasized in the Gospel of Luke. Also, Luke himself as the narrator calls Jesus "Lord," and this happens multiple times. The same conversation as quoted above happens in the other Gospels, Matthew and Mark, also.
Why did god choose death as a means to achieve our so called salvation if he is omnipotent why the frick doesn't he just make it so we are saved without the need for messiah's and death/sacrifice.
>Why did god choose death as a means to achieve our so called salvation if he is omnipotent why the frick doesn't he just make it so we are saved without the need for messiah's and death/sacrifice.
Biblically, God obeys his own laws. He is perfectly just. And man was legally in bondage to satan/death. God wanted us out, and did it within the boundries of his own law.
So he isn't omnipotent if he needs to abide by a law be it his own or not.
>So he isn't omnipotent if he needs to abide by a law be it his own or not.
He chooses to abide by his laws. He has the power to work outside of his laws, but he is perfectly just so chooses to work within them.
Nah, it's just a coping mechanism for how the Early Christians couldn't count. Go look up the first chapter of Matthew to watch him bungle counting to 42.
1. Abraham/Solomon/Jeconiah (a.k.a. Jehoiachin)
2. Isaac/Rehoboam/Shealtiel
3. Jacob/Abijah/Zerubbabel
4. Judah/Asa/Abiud
5. Perez/Jehoshaphat/Eliakim
6. Hezron/Jehoram/Azor
7. Ram/Uzziah (aka Azariah)/Sadoc
8. Amminadab/Jotham/Achim
9. Nahshon/Ahaz/Eliud
10. Salmon/Hezekiah/Eleazar
11. Boaz/Manasseh/Matthan
12. Obed/Amon/Jacob
13. Jesse/Josiah/Joseph
14. David/Jeconiah's brethren (i.e. Jehoiakim)/Jesus
Zedekiah is called the "brother" of Jeconiah in 2 Chronicles 36:10, which matches with what Matthew 1:11 says.
Zedekiah, Jehoiakim and Jehoahaz were sons of Josiah who all ruled over Jerusalem. And Jehoiakim was the father of Jeconiah, so those three count as a separate generation from Jeconiah himself. Although Jehoiakim isn't explicitly named, he is included in the unique phrase "and his brethren". This gives three sets of 14 generations.
Let philosophers worry about contradictions, and let the morons argue about the trinity.
Sure, list some contradictions.
I'm not a moron that's about to argue about the trinity with another moron. Thank you very much.
So you have an unmoved mover--the necessary non-contingent being required for a universe of contingent things to exist. This being must always exist because anything that proceeds it would then be the unmoved mover--the first cause.
The unmoved mover is overflowing with love--because all creation--even the simplest doodle has a tiny bit of affection attached to it--because any creation contains a bit of the essence of that which created it. So the unmoved mover is love, ie, "God is love." The Unmoved Mover is the creator/cause of all that follows.It creates and loves all that it creates.
Beholding this love, this perfect way of existing within and without our world of time, the logos (the Word) is begotten by the Creator.
The Word was with God and was God--just as your love is something of you and within you. This Logos was what we understand with our very limited human understanding as the "Son of God." That essence that creates we call "Father." That love that flows from the "Father" is the "Son."
The will of Father and Son to act in our world of time and outside it--to love and create out of love is their Spirit in all things. That is the the Holy Spirit. We encounter that spirit and call upon that spirit--that which brought us into existence--to strengthen us.
The Holy Spirit is uniquely felt/experienced by human beings in truly remarkable moments--by Mary at The Annunciation, by the Apostles at Pentecost, and by Paul on the Road to Damascus--but also in a host of small moments where people find the spiritual strength to endure or prevail when it seemed impossible.
This is is the Trinity. It's mystery--something that our human understanding can only partially comprehend.
There was a time when human beings were humble enough to realize that there are mysteries beyond their full comprehension. Not now.
>because any creation contains a bit of the essence of that which created it.
That would be creation ex deo instead of creation ex nihilo.
The Biblical account tells us that God made the universe out of nothing, meaning it has absolutely no material cause of its own, while the ultimate efficient cause and the ultimate final cause are both God. The formal cause lies in the pre-existent eternal mind of God, which has been called Νους in ancient times. The observed ordering of the universe, that is the laws that are imposed on it - from the most abstract (logic and more) down to the most particular, and the natural ordering that results, has been called Λογος, and known to us as the Word. This Word was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (John 1:9). Everything that was ever truly known by anyone at any time, came from God. At least part of the above can be deduced just by observing the universe and through reason, but part of it is known by divine revelation. This is the difference between general revelation (which everyone in all ages has), and special revelation. The latter occurred when Scripture was revealed, and is given to those who are permitted to be exposed to it, which is God's word to us in this life.
Those who look for the truth, and that which never changes, will find it. Those who don't are "without excuse" for trying to forget God, and for throwing away whatever light they had. "And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath."
Everything happens for a reason, everything was created for a purpose, even if you can't understand it. Nothing has been set in the time and place where it belongs without purpose, an ultimate final end, a teleology. Even the wicked are there for the day of evil. 2 Timothy 1:9.
Irenaeus and Tertullian: Noooo don't call God "iao" that's what the gnostics do!
Origen, Eusebius, Didymus, and Theodoret: lol he called iao
Mystery solved. You're welcome.
Our Anon: "Hey Akhi, what should I call you."
Akhi: "You are Anon, but you correctly called me Akhi. Akhi is better than me, because it's more detailed. Lots of people are also called by me, but only I am Akhi, because that is my name, and it defines me".
Our Anon: "Akhi, you are contradicting yourself. You just said that Akhi is better than me. How can that be, if they are the same person? Are you schizophrenic? How can one be greater than the other if they are the same?! Also, I am Akhi, because Akhi is me, and you are Anon, and I am also Anon."