Is there any concrete evidence that something like this existed? Why is the standard of historical evidence so low when it comes to steppe herders especially when they had no writing and the best we can deduce from them comes from the Vedas?
Is there ANY evidence for this at all
No, it's pure myth (and should be discussed as such on this board).
A bunch of Junker historiographers came up with the idea of the Mannerbünd so they could LARP that Prussianism was actually just the modern manifestation of a millenia old tradition.
Nowadays the only people who believe it actually existed are terminally online /misc/yps who read Evola and want to revolt against the modern world.
Yes.
Weak evidence
i think theres good evidence to make a simple claim, the more elaborate ideas need more elaborate evidence of course
Do you realize you agreed with me?
im saying theres more evidence than i described but im feelin lazy
What evidence would/could prove of such a thing that isn't already on the archaeological record for material culture? What specifically are you looking for in regards to evidence? It's more of a social theory and one that makes complete sense to explain a substantial element of Indo-Europeanization.
What do you propose as an alternative to young, likely desperate bands of young men forming something similar to the koryos concept? Perhaps large military campaigns, because there is much less evidence for that.
>What evidence would/could prove of such a thing that isn't already on the archaeological record for material culture?
Well, the exact same social structure shows up in every single Indo-European culture with the same name and is described by numerous authors, sometimes even describing another culture's iteration of the same thing, so that's a good start.
Makes perfect sense to me, so what's up OP's ass?
Well the topic has moved from niche history that only nerds care about into something that has a growing impact on popular consciousness, and OP is a terminal contrarian suffering from an overinflated ego due to social maladaption and seclusion, so I'd say he's roleplaying as a YECer so as to maintain his too-cool-for-school street cred as a contration.
Ah, makes sense. OP is still a homosexual then. Nothing changes as the world turns bros.
It doesn't show up in every single IE culture. Stop lying. The only thing I can thnk of that is similar to it are Beserkers. Not sure if it even shows up in India or persia
Celts had a berserker culture
what about the balts, slavs, and scythians? or the italics, albanians, and greeks?
Greeks did, balts did, idk about slavs or albanians, scythians were basically 100% personally led bands of warriors
Well the founding of Rome is a classic example, all male sent out, founds a colony, seizes women, raised by wolf. There’s numerous other examples of lottos in other cultures as well. just read the one eyed god if you want to know more
Wrong. The founding of Rome is a unique event. Anatolian refugees migrated to Italy, two of their boys drink milk from a wolf, found their own colony, the colony grows, and later kidnap Indo European women. This was specifically thought of as a crime by neighboring Indo Europeans who had never heard of it happening before.
Firstly, the "Anatolian refugees" thing happened far before Romulus, you're confusing Aeneas's mythologized explanation of the introduction of the Etruscans to Italy. Secondly, no Italic sources describe this as a common occurrence, Romulus just happened to be the most pious man which is why he succeeded so thoroughly. The practice continued into the Republican period and is a well attested pan-Italic practice.
>the "Anatolian refugees" thing happened far before Romulus,
moron. That is why it is listed first. While you confused yourself and think women were seized and then a wolf came and raised them, moron.
>you're confusing Aeneas's mythologized explanation
Aeneas was Anatolian and the Romans proudly called themselves Anatolian. Your cope fails.
>Secondly, no Italic sources describe this as a common occurrence,
You're confused again. The kidnapping of Indo European was something that was unprecedented it was not a common occurrence or part of their culture.
>was unprecedented it was not a common occurrence or part of their culture.
Still no source, tard is talking out his ass
>who had never heard of it happening before.
You got a source for that?
Were they "wolf warriors"
nta, but in the mythological cycle of cu chulainn/setanta (an irish mythological hero/demigod, also known as the irish heracles) he has a spiritual taboo against eating dog meat and refusing hospitality. he also has a "hero-light" where he basically goes super saiyan; glowing with energy and becomes powerful and gets a bloodlust.
its an independent mythological reference to some of these tropes; cattle raiding, young warrior hero, tragic magical contrived death, with specific references to adopting a dog identity ('cu chulainn' means 'cullens dog')
thats just one thing i know from the top of my head
>Greeks
Present, described by numerous authors such as Plato and Aristotle.
>Italics
Present, Romulus and his boys are this and are well attested by numerous authors.
>Celts
Present.
>Germanics
Present. Tacitus describes this structure in detail.
>Slavs
Present.
>IE Anatolians (Hittites, Luwians, etc)
Present.
>Iranics
Present.
>Indians
Present.
>Tocharians
Present here too (the fact that they had a Koryos structure is one of the few things that we can conclusively say about them).
Aaaand that's all of them, so yes, it does in fact show up in every Indo-European culture. You probably should have looked into this before having an opinion on the topic.
Source?
>Italics
Source?
>Celts
Source?
>Germanics
Present. Tacitus describes this structure in detail.
Source?
>Slavs
Source?
>IE Anatolians (Hittites, Luwians, etc)
Source?
>Iranics
Source?
>Indians
Source?
Literally claiming they all exist with no evidence. Note that the koryos are a specific type of warband, basically all cultures had some form of warband from nguni tribes in africa to the mountains of peru.
Oh, you wanted books, why didn't you just ask? The following go over the topic and are all on libgen.
The One Eyed God by Kris Kershaw (this directly answers your question btw)
Lady with the Mead Cup
Beowulf
The Iliad
The Heliand
Culture of the Teutons
Freyr's Offspring
Orpheus, Odin, and the Indo-European Underworld
The Germanization of Early-Medieval Christianity
The Road to Hell
The King and his Cult: the axe-hammer (this is a paper, you can use sci-hub to get it).
The Horse, Wheel, and Language
How To Kill A Dragon
Archaic Roman Religion
I don't have time to read all these now, give specific excerpts or speenshots or pages
I accept your concession.
What the frick? No you have to give me specific lines removed from context so that I can pilpul them into saying something else. I don't want to read books, I want to argue on the internet, and you're out here trying to fricking educate people!
bro you just spammed a bunch of books
That's how citing a source works dude.
It sounds like you're unfamiliar with this topic and are getting confused on the basics. Like, you contradict yourself in your own post about whether or not Aeneas's founding of Italic citystates and Romulus's founding of Rome are the same event or not. Might I suggest some of the books that
posted?
>It sounds like you're unfamiliar with this topic and are getting confused on the basics.
You're projecting again. You think women were seized and the wolves came and raised them. At this point an AI would be putting up more of an argument.
>Aeneas's founding of Italic citystates
Aeneas didn't found the Italic city states, moron. That's the Anatolian portion of what I wrote when Aeneas found his own colony in Latium with the rest of the Anatolian refugees.
>and Romulus's founding of Rome
That's the boys "found their own colony" part. You lack any reading comprehension.
>You think women were seized and the wolves came and raised them.
This is what you claimed, yes.
>Aeneas didn't found the Italic city states
Well, according to the Romans, he did.
Are you just feeding stuff into ChatGPT or something? This is the third time you've disagreed with yourself in the same post.
>This is what you claimed, yes.
Lying isn't going to work because everyone can see you stupidly said "seizes women, raised by wolf" at
and I called you out for being a moron at posts
and
while you confused yourself in subsequent posts and tried to reverse our positions.
>Well, according to the Romans, he did.
No, he didn't. The Italics already lived in Italy, moron.
>Are you just feeding stuff into ChatGPT or something?
Saying "no u" to what I told you is a poor retort.
>This is the third time you've disagreed with yourself in the same post.
You're projecting again, moron. You don't even know what you're typing and confused yourself. You even forgot you said women were seized and raised by a wolf a few posts ago.
None of those posts are in response to me.
>The Italics already lived in Italy
So you've disagreed with yourself again.
At the rate you're going the next post is just going to be 100% literal seething.
>None of those posts are in response to me.
They are both in response to you, but keep lying. It only proves you're a loser who accepted defeat again.
>>The Italics already lived in Italy
>So you've disagreed with yourself again.
Name one post where I said the Italics did not live in Italy, moron.
I was right, literal AI slop seething gibberish.
>Can't name any of these "disagreements"
Still waiting for you to show where I said the Italics did not live in Italy, moron. Or for that matter any of the other "disagreements".
You’re such a fricking moron you’re talking out your ass whilst providing no sources and you’re getting obviously different anons confused and accusing them of lying. Fricking stupid moron
>You think women were seized and the wolves came and raised them.
HE didn’t say that dumbass I did. And I added the last part about the wolf as an afterthought, I wasn’t seriously claiming they were raised after stole the Sabine women. God you’re a moron
>I don't have time to read all these now
then frick off and go read them. no one cares about your opinion if you are just some contration doofus who wants to argue on the internet.
I am well read on this you're making shit up. You're even conflating the roman founding story with koryos warbands. It doesn't exist in Hinduism like you claimed, zorastrianism nor persian culture neither. Just state the name of the concept in Hinduism then
>I am well read on this
Clearly not if you're confusing Aeneas and Romulus.
>It doesn't exist in Hinduism like you claimed
Yes it does. This is very well attested.
>nor persian culture
Zoroaster himself talks about this, anon.
Where does zarathustra say this?
>This is very well attested.
Hindu warrior caste is attested not wolfmen warbands
>Where does zarathustra say this?
That would be the Five Gathas and the Liturgy in Seven Parts. M. L. West did a good translation of this, it's called "The Hymns of Zoroaster". Also, speaking of M. L. West, he talks about the Greco-Anatolian Koryoses in "East Face of the Helicon".
>Hindu warrior caste is attested not wolfmen warbands
The Kshatriyas ARE wolfman warbands. There's a huge amount of wolf imagery attached to the Kshatriyas, Rudra, and Rudra's Rudras. A few of the books in
talk about this.
kshatriyas have nothing to do with wolves, I'm literally Hindu
>kshatriyas have nothing to do with wolves
Then you're just going to have to stop posting and read the books, because you are wrong. Like, come the frick on dude an actual Hindu was cited in this thread, and you haven't even bothered to read what he said on the subject.
https://aryaakasha.com/2021/09/13/nomads-murmurers-death-seekers-at-the-border-three-further-perspectives-on-barbarians-drawn-into-the-broader-indo-european-sphere/
Curwen Rollinson has written a lot on this topic from the Hindu perspective.
>https://aryaakasha.com/2021/09/13/nomads-murmurers-death-seekers-at-the-border-three-further-perspectives-on-barbarians-drawn-into-the-broader-indo-european-sphere/
We already know the aryans indaded India, I'm talking about evidence of a specific wolflike warband culture in Hinduism
You're in luck, that article, and the books in the thread already cited, talk about that. Additionally, Curwen has written voluminously on the subject. His website has a search bar, just put in "wolf" and you'll get tons of shit on this.
I'm hindu there is no warband wolf culture in Hinduism. Any attempt to infer this is trying to force an association that isn't there
Sorry TIMMY but I'm a sri sri mahamaharajapajapoojawooja Jat from Nagaland and everything we do in Hinduism is about wolves and warbands. Accept your place as my tech support or me and my koryos will come by your street and shit in it.
he literally cited tacitus in the post you failed at quoting dude
theres a grave of hundreds of dog heads in russia, associated with the yamnaya culture in space and time; not rewatching the video, thats the archaeological basis for the idea
vikings, and the norse mythological emphasis on berserkers (who seem kind of like proto-vikings, and also the ideal viking)
The fact that scandis were participating in loose, adventurous warbands while telling stories about previous groups of loose, fraternal warbands is at least suggestive of the fact that these practices might be attached to a cultural memory of IE warrior bands
>Berserkers (proto-vikings)
Nah. Vikings are sea faring raiders, there's no "proto" to it, either they're raiding and sailing or they're just bloodthirsty men on land.
the berserkers have a kind of timeless, mythical element to them, being that they are so strongly connected to Odin. That's why I called them "proto," the mythological character of the berserker feels like a hearkening back to previous generations of warriors, meaning that the concept of a berserker would have felt old to the vikings themselves when they began to emerge in the 700s.
I would give arguable evidence but this thread reeks of israeli odor, pass
Virtually all IE cultures have the practice, especially more conservative ones; it's quite reliable.
The guy writes fiction books based off of archaeology. It’s 5000 years ago, we don’t have written records. He’s putting together some info from archaeology, anthropology and a sort of cultural etymology for IE peoples.
Of course there’s a gap in knowledge, there’s not too much there but he makes stories based on that evidence.
He might be wrong but it’s refreshing to see some history content where creativity is used to fill in the blank when every other history channel is basically them saying they don’t know the whole time. You take it with a pinch of salt
There's a bit of evidence and it makes sense. Yamnaya tribes were dominant in the steppe and produced Corded rapebabies. They told their Corded rapebabies to frick off back to their mom's place and sent them to Europe to continue raping. These were bands of Corded incels who were otherwise slaves in steppe society being sent out to die or conquer.
I like the koryos but the idea that this millenia old tradition spread everywhere from Ireland to India just inexplicably went extinct without a trace of it in modernity is pretty far-fetched. It's more likely that gangs of young men just formed and fought like adolescents are want to do universally.
>just inexplicably went extinct without a trace of it in modernity is pretty far-fetched
Well, there was the matter of the whole "1500 years of topdown idealogical cultural revolution to kill off the religion in which the structure exists and even makes sense".
>It's more likely that gangs of young men just formed and fought like adolescents are want to do universally.
This is the theory, yes. What that looks like is culturally conditioned. For Indo-Europeans pre-Christianity, the cultural conditions of "young men just formed and fought like adolescents are want to do universally" involved stuff about belts, your gang leader calling himself "wolf", worshiping Odin, etc.
>Well, there was the matter of the whole "1500 years of topdown idealogical cultural revolution to kill off the religion in which the structure exists and even makes sense".
Yet we would expect it to show up in Hinduism or Zoroastrianism
Zoroastrianism lacks it because Zoroaster's reforms were focused on getting rid of this (and sedentary agriculture). However, yes, it is amply described in Hinduism (see
, Kershaw talks about this).
>I like the koryos but the idea that this millenia old tradition spread everywhere from Ireland to India just inexplicably went extinct without a trace of it in modernity is pretty far-fetched
It's really not at all. Constant blood feuds between clans, cattle raiding parties and shit of that nature is actually quite destructive to urbanism and creating capable civilizations, obviously. It's why Greeks and Romans overcame it through unique elements of culture incorporated from more distant EEF cultural norms it's why Irancis adopted beliefs like Zoroastrianism, Northern Europe only truly urbanized after adopting Christianity including most non-Romanized Celtic peoples. Or perhaps cultures reacting to Christianity like the Norse which were among the temporary exceptions. It's just not viable to building cities. It's why Charlemagne killed the Saxons, he wanted something greater for his people than VGH tradition.
Bros I think we should bring back elements of this thoughever. Bring back cattle ranching, martial arts and simulated raids and shit like that as a kind of right of passage for the youth. One they could do for like two years as a kind of ROTC/military prep thing, or perhaps each summer. Teach them Homer in ancient Greek and music, math and rhetoric. No more gay wagecuck training.
The modern equivalent is obviously committing grand theft auto and roving biker gangs. Full on Futurist Manifesto worship of speed. In fact, being a Hell's Angels in the 1960s is probably the most koryos thing to ever happen in a thousand years.
Trvke but I want it by law anon. Law and sacred rights, in fact, I demand it.
Law and sacred rights exist within the brotherhood. You act like wolf cults were just given free reign to reap chaos and weren't fricking killed if the next tribe over caught them stealing their women.
>It's why Charlemagne killed the Saxons, he wanted something greater for his people than VGH tradition.
Charlemagne did this because he was prosecuting a bloodfeud, he had no higher ambitions or goals. Frankly his reign was more of a "koryos gone wrong" than anything else as nowhere else but in the Carolingian realm would that sort of thuggery be acceptable.
>Or perhaps cultures reacting to Christianity like the Norse
It's pretty clear that the Asatruar Norsemen had a very low opinion of the Berserkers who were their culture's manifestation of the "what happens if you never stop partying with Wolf" pathway, for the reasons that you outlined.
>One they could do for like two years as a kind of ROTC/military prep thing, or perhaps each summer. Teach them Homer in ancient Greek and music, math and rhetoric
This is basically what happened in India, and it lead to Buddhism and, much later, Vedanta. When the Kshatriyas settled down and stopped feuding because that sort of thing is expensive and costly, the ones who wouldn't give it up instead formed these wandering debateme packs that would get into intellectual fisticuffs over turf. The Buddha's gang does it's own sort of "Romulus founding Rome" thing by fricking off to the NW and the SE.
>he had no higher ambitions or goals
The cultural transformations he supported, or at least tolerated, along with his refusal of many other customs fly in the fact of this a bit anon. I recognize he was not always pulling the strings on these cultural mutations but he had the hallmarks of a reformer. Totally agreed with your takes on the Norse and early Buddhists though.
It is real, they were shape-shifting druids who were like werewolves.
so u r saying white people r furries?
>The Roman festival of the Lupercalia is the central focus of the book. It was a rite of passage for young men of the equestrian order, an elite class of Roman citizens. The priests that carried out the ritual were called the Luperci, a word derived from the Latin lupus (wolf). After being initiated into the ritual, the young men ran around the centre of Rome almost completely naked and struck women with goatskin whips. The meaning of the ritual was not entirely clear to the Romans of the imperial period but the famous orator Cicero described it as a relic of primitivism, a wild custom that precedes civilisation and laws. The festival was celebrated from the beginnings of Rome down to the turbulent period of late antiquity when Pope Gelasius wrote an angry letter criticizing a carnivalesque version of the ritual staged by Gothic consuls (in 490s AD, a century after the official ban on the old religion by the Christian emperor Theodosius I).
Great now chuds have a wolf cult thing. Just great.
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