Then you still an atheist about the other gods because AS YOU SAID, you don't considered them gods but demons.
Stop being a moron, christcuck.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You don't get to redefine how all language and terms were historically used and then claim everyone who doesn't adhere to your propaganda framing is moronic.
A "god" is a word for a lord, Christianity accepts demons as lords of their principalities, they're "gods" in that sense but not worthy of worship or focus as a final goal since they're all subject to a higher authority. A nation under the god of victory can be controlled by a nation that sees through the structure of victory.
1 month ago
Anonymous
God is a highly polysemous word, moron
1 month ago
Anonymous
And you're using that dishonestly to make it mean whatever is convenient to your dishonest horseshit in the moment. If you actually think Gervais has good points on this subject your mind is mush, you can't sincerely discuss anything. You don't understand history and actively undermine your ability to.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Romans literally called the early Christians: Atheists.
Because.. They (the Christians) didn't believe in the Gods!
Is this getting any kind of point across to you?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>heh look at my latest dishonest wordgames
Read history instead of trying to piece together a picture that serves your dishonest aims. They were explicitly against worshiping other gods and the conflict arose from them refusing to do so, they were nothing like atheists trying to dishonestly pretend spirits have no power. Imperial Rome was considered divine after Agustus Divi Filius who said he was the son of a god and refusing to worship the emperor was treason. Notice that in your deranged mind you thought it sincere and reasonable to conflate refusing to worship a man with "atheism" which is today only used for dishonest propaganda meant to undermine understanding of history. The term barely evens relates to theology anymore thanks to subversives like you establishing yourselves under this label.
1 month ago
Anonymous
What are you disagreeing with me about?
I am telling you how the word, historically, have been used.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Refusing to worship something is not the same as pretending it doesn't exist. You can keep using language games to dishonestly avoid understanding anything said to you but what's the point of that?
1 month ago
Anonymous
What the frick are you talking about?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Your diseased mind.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You told me I was using the word Atheist wrong, because "I don't understand history"
I provided a historical example of people using the word the way I did
???
1 month ago
Anonymous
I told you that you dishonestly use ambiguity to confuse discussions and you're still doing that. What point do you think you're making? What interesting point are you building towards? Is your point really just to smear shit on everything and work as hard as you can to avoid understanding anything said?
I'm not a fricking "atheist" like Ricky Gervais toward any "god" or anything. I don't think like you morons in any way and demanding I adopt your dishonest propaganda framing just reveals how braindead and incapable of sincere thought you are.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Gervais think Xenu is made-up. Ricky believes that the God, Xenu, does not exist.
In what ways does your views on Xenu, differ from Ricky's?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Do you actually tell yourself you're a sincere and honest person? Or do you acknowledge that you're a disgusting manipulator and just embrace it?
A modern science fiction story using framing developed based on postmodern laveyan satanism is not similar to polytheist Greece or tribal animists or monotheism. All you do is try to subvert and dishonestly use language to make sure you understand nothing, weaponized moronation.
With the framing I provided where these are all different models of reality a story about airplanes dropping souls into volcanoes billions of years ago is an example of an apparently useless model that's not even outdated it just never said anything interesting or helped anyone navigate anything in the first place. The context it appeals to is 20th century scifi instead of any working scholarly traditions.
1 month ago
Anonymous
In what ways does your views on Xenu, differ from Ricky's?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Anon is pretending that atheists AKSHUALLY know God exists, they're just too proud to worship God. Standard, brainless apologia.
1 month ago
Anonymous
That's not what atheist mean, atheist don't go around claiming that demons are real but not God. It's ridiculous to go and talk about religions without even understanding simple words.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>demons are real but not God
this is compatible with atheism
Honestly, if you really press them and lead them a bit, most Christcucks will actually cuck out and tell you that there are many paths to God and we're all seeing the same divinity through different cultural lenses.
It's kind of cucked, but it also strengthens their arguments in a way. Instead of evidence for one faith becoming disproof of another, the faiths reinforce one another.
The problem though is that the Christian has no way of knowing which religions are man-made and which ones are demonic influences. Also why did God allow the native Americans or any other ancient group to be tricked by demons instead of the true God? The simplest explanation is that every religion is man-made.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>The simplest explanation is that every religion is man-made.
That you can't separate the map from the territory does not mean everyone in history is as deranged and useless as you.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Good thing all religions will be considered mythology in just a few thousands years.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Well, that is just a claim and not a provable statement.
1 month ago
Anonymous
It's all the same kind of thing moron including physics and math. How hard is this to grasp? Some maps are better than others and the morons rejecting pre-modern contributions to the available maps are just neutering themselves.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Mythology isn’t physics and math actually.
You guys know you’re all Reddit tier pseuds, but just choose the opposite stances as them right?
So frickin pretentious and so dumb
1 month ago
Anonymous
so Christchads are neither pseuds, nor reddit
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Mythology isn’t physics and math actually.
Your dishonest horseshit aside do you even understand what the frick I'm talking about? Why can't you acknowledge and build on what's said like someone capable of thought? Do you believe physics has some special property that other maps of human experience don't have? I'm saying physics is the most accurate model of physical phenomena but it's still just a model like the ancient Greek polytheist worldview was just a model to navigate experience. The underlying phenomena the models try to map are real, mount Olympus is really there, lightning really happens.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Do you believe physics has some special property that other maps of human experience don't have?
Theistic mythology? Yes. Physics actually requires that claims are tested and supported with evidence. It’s sad that you have hangups about accepting the greatness of the rational scientific revolution and its place in history.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Physics actually requires that claims are tested and supported with evidence.
Does rigorously testing how well your map works suddenly make it something more than a map? Do you actually believe adjusting ones worldview based on testing is something rationalism added? You think everyone in history was a blind moron with no grasp on anything and no ability to advance their knowledge? You sound more dogmatic than most Christians in history and more dogmatic than the authors of the Bible, likely so dogmatic and delusional that hinting that you subscribe to any dogma at all sounds insane to you.
1 month ago
Anonymous
It will simply make for a better map
1 month ago
Anonymous
What the frick are you saying? One of those maps is taking us to outer space and allowing us to communicate in mere seconds from across the world.
The other map has restricted and oppressed people throughout the ages, so it is really not hard for me to pick a map to piss on
1 month ago
Anonymous
>mount Olympus is really there
What about Hephaestus, though?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Just answer his question. Why did God not send his prophets to all continents and regions? He only chose the ME for all of his prophets, wtf is up with that? What about the Aboriginals or the Mayans?
He chose to abandon all of these groups of people and focus on only one region of the world??
1 month ago
Anonymous
Just be fricking honest moron. Think for yourself and stop the bullshit. Why did God allow anglos to unlock the secrets of science? Because they fricking worked for it. Why do you think the most successful models of the time arose in the same place and time that fricking writing itself developed? Is this really some mystery I have to explain to you?
Everything you say about religion is dishonest. You can't apply any standard you try to appeal to honestly and equally because you have no clue how to think.
What the frick are you saying? One of those maps is taking us to outer space and allowing us to communicate in mere seconds from across the world.
The other map has restricted and oppressed people throughout the ages, so it is really not hard for me to pick a map to piss on
Dishonest horseshit. Physics is the best model of physical interactions. The older models allowed people to among other things advance to the point where they could develop physics and they give rudimentary accounts for things not accounted for at all by physics.
If you only use physics to model your experience there are huge holes in your map where I at least have some rough idea with many alternative models due to not allowing my mind to be ruined by your subversive propaganda.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Just be fricking honest moron. Think for yourself and stop the bullshit.
WHERE WERE THE FRICKING PROPHETS YOU RETAAAAAARD?
WHY DID GOD SEND NO HOLY SCRIPTURES TO OTHER CONTINENTS AND PLACES OF THE WORLD? YOU FRICKING MOOOOOOOOOOOONG?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Why are you asking random anons to explain to you basic history as if your moronation is some gotcha against whatever point you think you're arguing against when you're just dishonestly undermining reason?
Why did God send no phonetic writing system in the first place to other continents moron? They just didn't develop it, the "cradle of civilization" had the cities and the scribes. What is wrong with you morons? Why are you pretending to be able to discuss history? How did your minds get so completely and utterly destroyed?
1 month ago
Anonymous
You don't understand the issue atheists have with God choosing to only share the word of his presence with civilized people is so moronic. God damn bro you even type like a moron with your map bullshit. I hate theistic people so much it's unreal
I think the discourse between atheists and theists would be more beneficial to both sides if each side understood when the other is just saying shit to make them seethe.
>Is this a valid argument?
No. Even if he's literally correct, it doesn't matter. It's like okay, I believe this, you don't, so what?
What's the argument? You reject all gods, I reject all of them except for one, therefore I am wrong? That's not how that works.
If I ask you, what's the answer to 2+2?
If I said, it's 4, and you say, I believe there is no answer, who is more likely to be correct? Even if I picked any number other than 4, wouldn't I still be more likely to be correct?
Not against orthodox Christianity, which believes all those other "gods" exist, but that they are not the supreme creator of the universe who is the only being that deserves the title of God; they're either angels or fallen angels, created by God
You know, the bible says there are multiple gods. But there is only one God.
“God (elohim) stands in the divine assembly;
he administers judgment in the midst of the gods (elohim).”
This is a very long and extensive topic theologically about what the ruling of nations from this council. But to keep it short is that when the Nations were split, they were divided along the members of the divine council. Which is the Orthodox view.
>God (elohim)
El = god. It was a word that meant the head god El as well as lesser gods who would be call El Something. -im is a plural. Elohim = gods as in, "In the beginning the gods made heaven and earth." Yahweh was once just one of many gods in the Canaanite religion. Different tribes and sects worshiped different gods in the pantheon as their sort of tribal mascots. Ba'al was another. "You are the tribe of Israel and you shall only worship me, Yahweh, even though there are others you could be worshiping. By the way, stop sacrificing your children please. But do chop off your sons' foreskins if you would. Thanks."
>Psalm 82-7 The corrupt elohim are sentenced to die like humans
Did I stutter? The end of the psalm makes it evident that the elohim being chastised were given some sort of authority
over the nations of the earth, a task at which they failed.
[...]
I'm orthodox and I saw a quote of saint seraphim sarov justifying the possibilities of sanctification in other pre-christian traditions. But where did you get your idea of orthodoxy justifying other gods ? Like everyone will most likely tell you other gods are just demons (sometimes prefigurations, or parts of truth from the Holy Spirit according to saint Justin martyr).
You can read there.It is not that There are other Gods. But "gods" of the heavenly host given administration of the nations. >The members of Yahweh’s council (Psa. 82:1, 6) >Gods and goddesses of other nations (Judg. 11:24; 1 Kgs. 11:33) >Demons (Hebrew: shedim—Deut. 32:17)
It's not wrong to say that they are demons, but specifically what class they are. They are not the unclean spirits that Jesus casted out of men.
1 month ago
Anonymous
normally it's understood as talking about saints, the gods by participation, deified people. Would you have someone or something else to back up your personal interpretation ? From the tradition that is.
Because it's strange you were two to think like that.
Christians are exclusivist normally
1 month ago
Anonymous
NTA but it's in the mainstream biblical commentary like on biblehub or even the bible project cartoons. The lower gods are mentioned many times, it doesn't matter how "clean" a spirit is worshiping it is denounced and against the first commandment, that's the exclusionism.
Thinking idolatry is about physical statues is braindead nonsense which caused a lot of destruction and conflict like the iconoclasm conflicts in Rome.
Worship of a god like victory is confused because victory depends on opposition and the wider framework, you're assigning gratitude to the wrong thing and conditioning your mind in a way that can be exploited. Statues can be a big part of that but you can also make the same statues without using them to delude yourself.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>conditioning your mind
When psychological or earthly impacts of applying the theology are mentioned the counter claim is that this is post-rationalization. It is but that's because our tools for rationalizing have advanced since then, the underlying structure was roughly the same even though they conceived of it differently. In the mind of the axial age man what we now call the psychology of the specific man is supposed to mirror a heavenly optimal form, every concept is intertwined with theology. If you want to discuss the underlying meaning of their words in modern language it will always seem less mystical and more rational because modern language is rational.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I am not saying that is wrong now. Jesus didn't lie to the thief on the cross. But I would also have to point back to Genesis 6:1-2 as proof of my point.
>And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, >That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Later in the bible, you can find this descriptor used in Job 1:6
>Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
Psalm 89:5–7 explicitly contradicts the notion of a divine council in which the elohim are humans.
>And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O Lord: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints. >For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among -the sons of the mighty- can be likened unto the Lord?
As to who pointed this out, Dr. Michael Heiser. He did great work on the subject in question. I think this is a great conversation because I was wondering what the Orthodox position was on this subject in particular. But I guess it is similar to that of mainline protestants. I guess that also means the Orthodox position is that the Sons of God in Gen 6:2 are Sethites. Much like the Protestant mainline view that the sons of Seth begotten the line of Cain and that somehow caused the Nephilim and the fall.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I don't understand your post sorry
1 month ago
Anonymous
It get it. It is a complex topic. It is not a well conversed topic about the divine council, the "gods", and who they are. And going back to the first divine council, The Watchers, that fell in Genesis 6. Again, Dr. Michael Heiser has done great work on the subject. I am not not that aware of what the Orthodox position is on the subject.
1 month ago
Anonymous
gods (usually lowercase) use the name adonai, whereas refering to God only uses the name elohim (most high). We (generally) derive the concept of angels from the adonai with YHWH as the Elohim
You know, the bible says there are multiple gods. But there is only one God.
“God (elohim) stands in the divine assembly;
he administers judgment in the midst of the gods (elohim).”
This is a very long and extensive topic theologically about what the ruling of nations from this council. But to keep it short is that when the Nations were split, they were divided along the members of the divine council. Which is the Orthodox view.
I'm orthodox and I saw a quote of saint seraphim sarov justifying the possibilities of sanctification in other pre-christian traditions. But where did you get your idea of orthodoxy justifying other gods ? Like everyone will most likely tell you other gods are just demons (sometimes prefigurations, or parts of truth from the Holy Spirit according to saint Justin martyr).
I know all those spirits exist. Faith in God is not about if God exists or not but if you align with creation or oppose it. I know God exist with as much certainty as I can know anything. I need faith to believe that God the source and prime mover is benevolent, creation is good and I should not oppose it. Those are things logic can't tell me.
>Everyone's a vegan except not everyone just strict themselves from eating all sorts of animals
>Everyone's a cannibal except they don't eat specific homosexual sapien species
>Everyone's a terrorist except they haven't blown themselves up
>Everyone's an atheist but they believe in one or two or 10 or 69 or 3 million out of the infinite gods
Just saying "I'm that but I just don't do that" is bogus
Anon, this is really a dumb argument but going the whole "common sense" route
If you have multiple gods equal gods, then there's no God because God is all powerful on everything
if there's multiple but unequal gods, then there's only one supreme God while others are just some deity
if there's one God, then there's one God because he's all powerful on everything
if there's no God, then there's nothing which obviously isn't the case.
Not according to the popular atheist propaganda but in reality they had a hierarchy represented as family bonds which leads back to more and more abstract powers like time but the first origin is never really addressed until formal logic and monotheism emerge at the same time and place. The abstractions of things like time become sons of universal law that allows logical abstraction itself.
Polytheists have a hierarchy basically. In the end there's gonna be some supreme God or essence.
Not according to the popular atheist propaganda but in reality they had a hierarchy represented as family bonds which leads back to more and more abstract powers like time but the first origin is never really addressed until formal logic and monotheism emerge at the same time and place. The abstractions of things like time become sons of universal law that allows logical abstraction itself.
Gnostic Voudon is another example, it's a religion with adepts today, It has temples and followers, it's a mixture of haitian beliefs with gnosticism and other ideas, the spirits are made up, and people are fricking terrified of it. It was invented, yeah.
It just takes ingenuity, but you see what you believe, not the other way arround.
Take for instance, Aleister Crowley and Kenneth Grant, Crowley made up his own religion, following is huge worldwide, Kenneth Grant took Crowleys religión and decided to worship Cthulhu myths wit it. Huge following too, currently on a revival.
These people are practical results oriented too, so they're getting something out of it.
I guess the point is, pretty much Christian or israelite or whoever can get into that critical, skeptical headspace. where you understand that people make up stories and myths and symbolic interpretations of reality, personalize natural/cosmic forces and ascribe a human-like will to them, and construct a metanarrative that gives special meaning to their lives and helps explain their place in the world. Of course they do, it's human nature. So they can completely empathize with and understand atheist attitudes toward their own religion, as all other ones.
But then when it comes to theirs, they're like "no my thing is different, and it definitely isn't another instance of this universal social emergence" and basically refuse to elaborate how that could ever possibly be in any terms that don't make them seem basically brainwashed. And the next thing they'll do is try, feebly, to argue that the atheist is the one that's been brainwashed; when even a goon like Gervais can point out, you already have the same fricking ideas in your head as me.
There's no fricking difference, your models are simply worse and account for less. The Ugaboog spirit of the Congolese forest is really there but it's not relevant to me and it's subject to higher rules.
The big bang or something like it really happened, physics is the best model of physical interactions we have, evolution describes the variety of life.
But what is qualia or how does it fit into all these models? >uh it's an illusion bro, just stop thinking about things we can't model
Frick off morons.
It's hard to tell what you're responding to here, or what you are saying in response. Maybe you're not one of the empathetic, rational religionists I assume most of them to be in my post above.
You got mad at an imagined man for dismissing something you didn't say about a thing I didn't mention. Is it very often you get upset at illusory experiences of being told that your experiences are illusory? What do you think this might mean, "models" or no?
You're a religious zealot saying "no my thing is different" while accusing others of doing that.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Respectfully, you're a desperate moron playing tragically to a type. A type I all but called out in my post. This is a turn based game here man, what's your excuse
1 month ago
Anonymous
You're too braindead to even understand the point I made or engage in any way so what's the point moron? It's all the same, models, the map is not the territory and your map is not special. It's not even practical and every post you make is pure projection.
He’s not entirely wrong. The Christian doesn’t believe in 2869 gods, and the the atheist also doesn’t believe in 2869 gods. I’ve noticed atheists desperately believe in the strawman they want god to be so they can have moral standings to not like god.
>The tetragrammaton was changed to "Dominus" in the vulgate bible because literacy was common at the time and readers might not know that the tetragrammaton was not meant to be spoken aloud >1700 years later it seems to be nearly forgotten in the Western world that the name of God was ever contained in the bible
Who was in the wrong here?
>Dumb
Non sequitur from the research. "Making people fearless makes them atheists" or "Being less paranoid makes you an atheist" is a much more accurate reading. >Gay
If not wanting same-sex marriage to be illegal "makes you gay", then Christisraelites not wanting circumcision to be illegal means Christianity makes you mutilate baby dicks.
You have no response to this.
Only israelites and israelite Worshipers seethe at circumcision laws. I am fine with it as a medical practice if it is needed, but it is not something compulsory outside of Judaism and Islam.
>making people fearless
That's just as dishonest and both are interpretations. A more reasonable interpretation is disabling parts of the brain makes people confused so they have to rely more on something like the apparent consensus instead of recalling what they've been trained to believe or their intuition. "Prejudice" is basically just a word for conditioned associations and fricking up your brain affects those associations. I bet psychedelics also make you "dumb and gay" in the same way.
>The magnet makes you moronic and then you ask your doctor and society and society and the doctor tells you there isn't a God
YOU DONT KNOW SHIT ABLUT THE MAGNET!!! QUIT PRETENDING YOU UNDERSTAND THE MAGNET!!!!
1 month ago
Anonymous
I will adjust my model of the magnet as data is introduced or replace it entirely if you present a more convincing model.
So it’s not genuine belief it’s a reaction to your strawman of people who don’t believe in your god. Don’t make me break out the BMI by religion chart man.
So a straw man reaction to a straw man is not valid? Yet as I am being further straw manned? I am being buried under your layers of irony that fall upon your deaf ears.
What a dumb frick : polytheist gods are not mutually exclusive. There is a reason why there is stuff like Aphrodite-Isis. Even polytheists roman were kin to admit Yahwee as part of the Pantheon.
This guys is talking to me about Anglos deserving physics cause they worked hard for it. What does god have anything to do with that? What hard work did the people in the ME do to get a message from God?
Has no one worked hard enough anywhere else on earth to get a message from God?
Just stop this shit and be honest. All will be revealed if you stop deliberately undermining yourself with all this dishonest bullshit. Read anything related to any of these subjects you're confused about without assuming everyone with different worldviews is moronic. Read history comics even if you really are completely braindead or a child, classic tales illustrated or whatever.
I mean, you make fun of pagans all day for their moronation and these atheists come along and persistently insist they are as equally moronic as them.
Also >We are all pedophiles, I just molested one less children than you.
>jupiter >zeus
that's the same thing, what a moron
Also: >zeus, ares
He doesn't know ancient greeks were literally polytheist? same for "odin, thor", literally any ancient pagan would be YES CHAD if asked such a question. it wasn't even rare for greeks to believe in foreign gods, without paying them much heed tho >murikkan educaiton
Elohim means gods. Abrahamics actually believe the pagan gods are fallen angels or a type of angel. I wouldn't expect a normal person to know that; that's not exactly on the opening page of any religious document. Also, both Christian testaments openly claim that paganism comes from demons. So they actually DO believe in those gods, they just don't believe ON those gods. I'm sure every language makes that distinction. In Hebrew "aleph - mem - nun" produces several words related to this concept like "emuno" (trust) and "omein" (verified).
Right, that's pretty clever. Christians believe all the pagans were tapping into spiritual powers, they just weren't the good ones (which run through God). israelites, however, seem to believe pagan rituals didn't do anything.
So you're not talking about Christianity but the same secular dead worldview you subscribe to that ignores everything interesting about the world.
1 month ago
Anonymous
No, I'm talking about beliefs held by currently living Abrahamics (Christians).
If you want to tell me about how gullible and stupid people were 2500 years ago, that's also interesting.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>No, I'm talking about beliefs held by currently living Abrahamics (Christians).
The subset of Christians who subscribe to the secular worldview/lies when it comes to demons. What are you trying to accomplish? Why can't you just be honest?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Why you think Zeus is real, and a demon, rather than made-up?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Because the phenomena the Greek concept of spirits/daemons cover isn't covered by any other language.
As a programmer when I started wondering about the apparent agency of emergent systems in computers but especially in real life like corporations it surprised me how nobody ever talks about it. There should be an established vocabulary and I eventually found it, in the Christian occult and the ancient Greeks talking about demons.
Labelling phenomena or an arbitrary grouping of phenomena and interactions as Zeus may be arbitrary but the thing the label is referencing is still there. The polytheist worldview was primitive, it was a worse map and the hierarchy ended in commonly accepted abstract concepts like time and space but the map is referencing things that exist even when we don't understand it.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Why you think nobody else than you figured this out?
1 month ago
Anonymous
The entire point of finding an established vocabulary is that other people clearly figured this out before and other people understand the language when I use it.
1 month ago
Anonymous
No, I mean except, you, and the Greeks.
Why don't other people living today figure out that Zeus is clearly real, and a demon, because of the way the Greeks used language?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Many do but the mainstream is saturated in PR and propaganda which is how you were brainwashed to become disconnected from your history and functionally illiterate. Not everyone is like you.
1 month ago
Anonymous
If you were wrong about Zeus being a demon, how could you go about figuring that out?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Like with everything it's just the best model. You just have to offer a better map that reveals something I can explore. If I try to apply the modern secular framing to read about ancient ideas there's no apparent meaning behind the words and that's what you're telling me to do by saying the word Zeus isn't referencing any underlying phenomena. Why do you think pretending words like Zeus mean nothing is a good way to understand the world and history? I've found physical places and history later confirmed by geological history by reading ancient texts using my models. As soon as you offer something useful I'll incorporate that into my models.
>Abrahamics actually believe the pagan gods are fallen angels or a type of angel.
Just so you're aware this is condemned as an unforgiveable blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by the Church Fathers.
>you say believe in only one God >so I will name a bunch of polytheistic gods >it appears you only believe in God and not these gods strange
couldn't he have figured this out when the guy said he believed in God?
There is no deity named "God". "God" is a title meaning "that which is invoked" from the Proto-Germanic "*guda", from PIE "*ghewh" ("that which is poured out to"). Are you referring to the israeli tribal deity of volcanoes, Yahweh?
Sure if you want to arbitrarily change the word God to Allah it kind of proves my point that atheists only ever talk about one specific God as they know nothing about gods
1 month ago
Anonymous
I don’t read a fantasy fiction anon, don’t know much about the characters.
If I lived in a country with a vocal and significant (though luckily shrinking) contingent of fantasy fans who swore some bullshit character was real and wanted to push that belief on me and dictate my life, I would unfortunately have to learn about that character and the shitty he is in
1 month ago
Anonymous
here arguing about him without reading. Atheism was always an exercise in intellectual contempt I guess
1 month ago
Anonymous
I was giving you a general hypothetical, I’m actually an ex-Christian. Of course I know more about the Christian god than others.
Also I don’t have Zeus worshippers trying to tell me not to frick my girlfriend.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Well yeah probably because Zeus doesn't exist
1 month ago
Anonymous
See the point in the OP.
1 month ago
Anonymous
doesn't really refute my point again, this isn't the slam dunk you think it is. It's a fine way to explain to a believer what an atheist is and that's all
1 month ago
Anonymous
You haven’t justified why you don’t believe in any other gods.
1 month ago
Anonymous
A quick course in meteorology will tell me not to believe in Zeus. I think we have common ground not believing in him as there is no evidence for him and plenty of arguments against him so why don't you believe in God, it's your turn
I don't undeestand.
Why do christcucks care about this unfunny islandBlack person so much?
Nothing he's ever said is new or mindblowing by this boards "standards"
it moronic, imagine how many different cosmological views there are throughout history: heliocentrism, geocentrism, brahmanda, ptolemaic, youre nearly as cosmologically nihilistic as me when you accept one but i reject all others. it's a nonsense statement
which God conquered the world? Christianity
there wouldnt be israel without Christianity
even hindus were conquered
1 month ago
Anonymous
>truth is a popularity contest
1 month ago
Anonymous
>it was just a coincidence
1 month ago
Anonymous
>truth is a popularity contest
1 month ago
Anonymous
>it was a coincidence >west turn atheist >europe conquered by muslims and america by catholic latinos >coincidence again
lmao
1 month ago
Anonymous
>europe conquered by muslims and america by catholic latinos
Considering your popularity contested -based epistemology, should people in the future take all the brown people as evidence for the truth of Catholicism/Islam?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>he just see materialism
lmao
1 month ago
Anonymous
I genuinely don't understand what point you think you're making, help me out here
1 month ago
Anonymous
look at the whites disapearing and being replaced by believing people, it doesnt matter the color, whites had the power under Christianity and they rejected it
1 month ago
Anonymous
>it's just a coincidence that they are being replaced by people who believe in Allah
1 month ago
Anonymous
who are you quoting
1 month ago
Anonymous
>it was just a coincidence
who are you quoting
1 month ago
Anonymous
>no you
can you make an argument at least?
1 month ago
Anonymous
I did
You are being dishonest
You've sunken to the point that your evidence for Christianity is, that it's popular
But then you denied that Islam becoming more popular, wouldn't be evidence of the truth of Islam
What's with the double-standard?
1 month ago
Anonymous
im not against muslims
did you know that the only people who recieved Jesus other than their parents were arabs muslims? not even israelites
muslims arent heretic just see the Bible wrong but they believe in Christ
1 month ago
Anonymous
>muslims arent heretic
least heretical apologizer
1 month ago
Anonymous
you arent even a believer dude shut up
they believe that Jesus is Christ, they are a sect like JW that believe Jesus is the arch angel michael
im allowing God judge, but if they believe Jesus is Christ they are fine with me
1 month ago
Anonymous
Good for you, I thought you where racist against brown people.
You're not so bad after all
1 month ago
Anonymous
the thing is atheist are being replaced by believers
1 month ago
Anonymous
This is perfectly compatible with atheism being true. Truth is not a popularity contest
1 month ago
Anonymous
no man, nature literally displace you, western atheist movement literally dont reproduce
1 month ago
Anonymous
like Jesus says: >"You will know them by their fruits"
Christianity [...]
Atheism [...]
just give up atheism
What tree did "western atheist movement" fall from?
1 month ago
Anonymous
from judaism
everyone pushing it is israeli
1 month ago
Anonymous
Sad, but true
1 month ago
Anonymous
Am I israeli?
(no I'm not israeli)
1 month ago
Anonymous
everyone opposing Christ is anti Christ and israeli yes
the Bible says so
1 month ago
Anonymous
>most intellectual apologizer
1 month ago
Anonymous
are you pro choice?
are you pro lgtb groups?
are you against Christianity?
if 1 or more of those apply you are practicing judaism as those are their religious rights
Can you think of at least one difference, between atheists and israelites?
1 month ago
Anonymous
nop, i dont think israelites believe in God
1 month ago
Anonymous
> There are traditional sources—albeit few and far between—that minimize the role of God in Judaism. A rabbinic text, Pesikta D’Rav Kehane, interprets God’s lament in the book of Jeremiah that the israelites “have forsaken me and not kept my Torah,” to mean: if only they had forsaken me and kept my Torah. This source supports the claim that Judaism demands action—fulfilling the commandments of the Torah—but not belief (even this text, however, does not endorse atheism). That being said, there are, and always have been, israeli atheists. Today there are 10,000 American israelites and 32 synagogues affiliated with Secular Humanistic Judaism, a non-theistic israeli movement founded in 1963 by Sherwin Wine. Nonetheless, the major israeli denominations are uncomfortable with the idea of a Judaism without God.
1 month ago
Anonymous
people are practiisraeli and they dont even know
1 month ago
Anonymous
like Jesus says: >"You will know them by their fruits"
Christianity
which God conquered the world? Christianity
there wouldnt be israel without Christianity
even hindus were conquered
Atheism
>it was a coincidence >west turn atheist >europe conquered by muslims and america by catholic latinos >coincidence again
lmao
just give up atheism
1 month ago
Anonymous
why pray to other god if they cant do nothing?
every Christian can say my God is better than you god and would be right
1 month ago
Anonymous
you do know that there is multiple pieces of evidence for heliocentrism, geocentrism, etc?
>philpapers
Remind me, what's the most commonly agreed on position held by the people who answered philpapers?
Oh, right. It's atheism.
You're such a fricking dishonest moron.
1 month ago
Anonymous
reread what ive said and realize youre discussing a question i am not answering
i am an atheist, but op is moronic, thats who im rebutting. theism can be rationally defended, even if i think its wrong
1 month ago
Anonymous
You don’t have proof your god is real unlike the others, we do have proof of heliocentrism
what a ridiculous claim, all the good evidence of the biblical God would not apply to Zeus. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about like give some examples of this evidence not to believe in Zeus that would apply to God
Physics is also "made up". Mother Earth and Father Sky conceived Cronos who ruled for a long golden age until his son Zeus overthrew him. The idea that this doesn't mean anything is representative of a diseased mind that shuts down thought before it can even happen. There's not a single reason to think it's meaningless, that's just an excuse to stop thinking, based on nothing. You morons have no point except the same repetitive appeal to derangement we don't share.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Zeus real cuz maps, I go to places and find real places
1 month ago
Anonymous
Sincerely making an effort to figure out the meaning behind words is also called reading. Not being able to do this makes you illiterate.
There's far more reason to believe in Zeus than there is reason to believe in whichever sect of Judaism the gays in this thread are shilling this week.
I believe in the Canaanite god Baal
I believe in Bhaal.
Which Baal?
The left one and the right one.
>I believe in the Canaanite god Baal
Actually, Yaweh is a caananite god. israelites commandeered it.
I was under the impression that Yahweh comes from the land of Midian, not Canaan.
Oh shit, that's Aku Aku.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism#Baal
if you believe in one God you arent an atheist anymore, he is a moron
Christcucks are atheists when it comes to magic elephant. But you could reject magic israelite for the same reasons christcucks reject magic elephant.
we arent atheist, we believe in God, atheist dont believe in any God, i personally believe other 'gods' are demons
Then you still an atheist about the other gods because AS YOU SAID, you don't considered them gods but demons.
Stop being a moron, christcuck.
You don't get to redefine how all language and terms were historically used and then claim everyone who doesn't adhere to your propaganda framing is moronic.
A "god" is a word for a lord, Christianity accepts demons as lords of their principalities, they're "gods" in that sense but not worthy of worship or focus as a final goal since they're all subject to a higher authority. A nation under the god of victory can be controlled by a nation that sees through the structure of victory.
God is a highly polysemous word, moron
And you're using that dishonestly to make it mean whatever is convenient to your dishonest horseshit in the moment. If you actually think Gervais has good points on this subject your mind is mush, you can't sincerely discuss anything. You don't understand history and actively undermine your ability to.
Romans literally called the early Christians: Atheists.
Because.. They (the Christians) didn't believe in the Gods!
Is this getting any kind of point across to you?
>heh look at my latest dishonest wordgames
Read history instead of trying to piece together a picture that serves your dishonest aims. They were explicitly against worshiping other gods and the conflict arose from them refusing to do so, they were nothing like atheists trying to dishonestly pretend spirits have no power. Imperial Rome was considered divine after Agustus Divi Filius who said he was the son of a god and refusing to worship the emperor was treason. Notice that in your deranged mind you thought it sincere and reasonable to conflate refusing to worship a man with "atheism" which is today only used for dishonest propaganda meant to undermine understanding of history. The term barely evens relates to theology anymore thanks to subversives like you establishing yourselves under this label.
What are you disagreeing with me about?
I am telling you how the word, historically, have been used.
Refusing to worship something is not the same as pretending it doesn't exist. You can keep using language games to dishonestly avoid understanding anything said to you but what's the point of that?
What the frick are you talking about?
Your diseased mind.
You told me I was using the word Atheist wrong, because "I don't understand history"
I provided a historical example of people using the word the way I did
???
I told you that you dishonestly use ambiguity to confuse discussions and you're still doing that. What point do you think you're making? What interesting point are you building towards? Is your point really just to smear shit on everything and work as hard as you can to avoid understanding anything said?
I'm not a fricking "atheist" like Ricky Gervais toward any "god" or anything. I don't think like you morons in any way and demanding I adopt your dishonest propaganda framing just reveals how braindead and incapable of sincere thought you are.
Gervais think Xenu is made-up. Ricky believes that the God, Xenu, does not exist.
In what ways does your views on Xenu, differ from Ricky's?
Do you actually tell yourself you're a sincere and honest person? Or do you acknowledge that you're a disgusting manipulator and just embrace it?
A modern science fiction story using framing developed based on postmodern laveyan satanism is not similar to polytheist Greece or tribal animists or monotheism. All you do is try to subvert and dishonestly use language to make sure you understand nothing, weaponized moronation.
With the framing I provided where these are all different models of reality a story about airplanes dropping souls into volcanoes billions of years ago is an example of an apparently useless model that's not even outdated it just never said anything interesting or helped anyone navigate anything in the first place. The context it appeals to is 20th century scifi instead of any working scholarly traditions.
In what ways does your views on Xenu, differ from Ricky's?
Anon is pretending that atheists AKSHUALLY know God exists, they're just too proud to worship God. Standard, brainless apologia.
That's not what atheist mean, atheist don't go around claiming that demons are real but not God. It's ridiculous to go and talk about religions without even understanding simple words.
>demons are real but not God
this is compatible with atheism
You believe that an Iron Age Canaanite demon magically invented the universe.
Honestly, if you really press them and lead them a bit, most Christcucks will actually cuck out and tell you that there are many paths to God and we're all seeing the same divinity through different cultural lenses.
It's kind of cucked, but it also strengthens their arguments in a way. Instead of evidence for one faith becoming disproof of another, the faiths reinforce one another.
The problem though is that the Christian has no way of knowing which religions are man-made and which ones are demonic influences. Also why did God allow the native Americans or any other ancient group to be tricked by demons instead of the true God? The simplest explanation is that every religion is man-made.
>The simplest explanation is that every religion is man-made.
That you can't separate the map from the territory does not mean everyone in history is as deranged and useless as you.
Good thing all religions will be considered mythology in just a few thousands years.
Well, that is just a claim and not a provable statement.
It's all the same kind of thing moron including physics and math. How hard is this to grasp? Some maps are better than others and the morons rejecting pre-modern contributions to the available maps are just neutering themselves.
Mythology isn’t physics and math actually.
You guys know you’re all Reddit tier pseuds, but just choose the opposite stances as them right?
So frickin pretentious and so dumb
so Christchads are neither pseuds, nor reddit
>Mythology isn’t physics and math actually.
Your dishonest horseshit aside do you even understand what the frick I'm talking about? Why can't you acknowledge and build on what's said like someone capable of thought? Do you believe physics has some special property that other maps of human experience don't have? I'm saying physics is the most accurate model of physical phenomena but it's still just a model like the ancient Greek polytheist worldview was just a model to navigate experience. The underlying phenomena the models try to map are real, mount Olympus is really there, lightning really happens.
>Do you believe physics has some special property that other maps of human experience don't have?
Theistic mythology? Yes. Physics actually requires that claims are tested and supported with evidence. It’s sad that you have hangups about accepting the greatness of the rational scientific revolution and its place in history.
>Physics actually requires that claims are tested and supported with evidence.
Does rigorously testing how well your map works suddenly make it something more than a map? Do you actually believe adjusting ones worldview based on testing is something rationalism added? You think everyone in history was a blind moron with no grasp on anything and no ability to advance their knowledge? You sound more dogmatic than most Christians in history and more dogmatic than the authors of the Bible, likely so dogmatic and delusional that hinting that you subscribe to any dogma at all sounds insane to you.
It will simply make for a better map
What the frick are you saying? One of those maps is taking us to outer space and allowing us to communicate in mere seconds from across the world.
The other map has restricted and oppressed people throughout the ages, so it is really not hard for me to pick a map to piss on
>mount Olympus is really there
What about Hephaestus, though?
Just answer his question. Why did God not send his prophets to all continents and regions? He only chose the ME for all of his prophets, wtf is up with that? What about the Aboriginals or the Mayans?
He chose to abandon all of these groups of people and focus on only one region of the world??
Just be fricking honest moron. Think for yourself and stop the bullshit. Why did God allow anglos to unlock the secrets of science? Because they fricking worked for it. Why do you think the most successful models of the time arose in the same place and time that fricking writing itself developed? Is this really some mystery I have to explain to you?
Everything you say about religion is dishonest. You can't apply any standard you try to appeal to honestly and equally because you have no clue how to think.
Dishonest horseshit. Physics is the best model of physical interactions. The older models allowed people to among other things advance to the point where they could develop physics and they give rudimentary accounts for things not accounted for at all by physics.
If you only use physics to model your experience there are huge holes in your map where I at least have some rough idea with many alternative models due to not allowing my mind to be ruined by your subversive propaganda.
>Just be fricking honest moron. Think for yourself and stop the bullshit.
WHERE WERE THE FRICKING PROPHETS YOU RETAAAAAARD?
WHY DID GOD SEND NO HOLY SCRIPTURES TO OTHER CONTINENTS AND PLACES OF THE WORLD? YOU FRICKING MOOOOOOOOOOOONG?
Why are you asking random anons to explain to you basic history as if your moronation is some gotcha against whatever point you think you're arguing against when you're just dishonestly undermining reason?
Why did God send no phonetic writing system in the first place to other continents moron? They just didn't develop it, the "cradle of civilization" had the cities and the scribes. What is wrong with you morons? Why are you pretending to be able to discuss history? How did your minds get so completely and utterly destroyed?
You don't understand the issue atheists have with God choosing to only share the word of his presence with civilized people is so moronic. God damn bro you even type like a moron with your map bullshit. I hate theistic people so much it's unreal
Perennialism isnt really cuckery though
BLOODY BASTERD b***h U POST MY WIFE????!!! I FRICKING RAP U BENCHOD BHADWA CHUTIYA
no
Look at the cute little mouse on the floor
Cute little fricker innit?
You eat shit from a cows ass.
I think the discourse between atheists and theists would be more beneficial to both sides if each side understood when the other is just saying shit to make them seethe.
This. Ninety nine percent of religious debate is done in bad faith.
God is defined as the supreme being of the Universe. All other beings are lesser than God.
The hindu would say that there are 2870 manifestations of one god, and he'd get red in the face
>Is this a valid argument?
No. Even if he's literally correct, it doesn't matter. It's like okay, I believe this, you don't, so what?
What's the argument? You reject all gods, I reject all of them except for one, therefore I am wrong? That's not how that works.
If I ask you, what's the answer to 2+2?
If I said, it's 4, and you say, I believe there is no answer, who is more likely to be correct? Even if I picked any number other than 4, wouldn't I still be more likely to be correct?
Not against orthodox Christianity, which believes all those other "gods" exist, but that they are not the supreme creator of the universe who is the only being that deserves the title of God; they're either angels or fallen angels, created by God
You know, the bible says there are multiple gods. But there is only one God.
“God (elohim) stands in the divine assembly;
he administers judgment in the midst of the gods (elohim).”
This is a very long and extensive topic theologically about what the ruling of nations from this council. But to keep it short is that when the Nations were split, they were divided along the members of the divine council. Which is the Orthodox view.
>God (elohim)
El = god. It was a word that meant the head god El as well as lesser gods who would be call El Something. -im is a plural. Elohim = gods as in, "In the beginning the gods made heaven and earth." Yahweh was once just one of many gods in the Canaanite religion. Different tribes and sects worshiped different gods in the pantheon as their sort of tribal mascots. Ba'al was another. "You are the tribe of Israel and you shall only worship me, Yahweh, even though there are others you could be worshiping. By the way, stop sacrificing your children please. But do chop off your sons' foreskins if you would. Thanks."
>Psalm 82-7 The corrupt elohim are sentenced to die like humans
Did I stutter? The end of the psalm makes it evident that the elohim being chastised were given some sort of authority
over the nations of the earth, a task at which they failed.
You can read there.It is not that There are other Gods. But "gods" of the heavenly host given administration of the nations.
>The members of Yahweh’s council (Psa. 82:1, 6)
>Gods and goddesses of other nations (Judg. 11:24; 1 Kgs. 11:33)
>Demons (Hebrew: shedim—Deut. 32:17)
It's not wrong to say that they are demons, but specifically what class they are. They are not the unclean spirits that Jesus casted out of men.
normally it's understood as talking about saints, the gods by participation, deified people. Would you have someone or something else to back up your personal interpretation ? From the tradition that is.
Because it's strange you were two to think like that.
Christians are exclusivist normally
NTA but it's in the mainstream biblical commentary like on biblehub or even the bible project cartoons. The lower gods are mentioned many times, it doesn't matter how "clean" a spirit is worshiping it is denounced and against the first commandment, that's the exclusionism.
Thinking idolatry is about physical statues is braindead nonsense which caused a lot of destruction and conflict like the iconoclasm conflicts in Rome.
Worship of a god like victory is confused because victory depends on opposition and the wider framework, you're assigning gratitude to the wrong thing and conditioning your mind in a way that can be exploited. Statues can be a big part of that but you can also make the same statues without using them to delude yourself.
>conditioning your mind
When psychological or earthly impacts of applying the theology are mentioned the counter claim is that this is post-rationalization. It is but that's because our tools for rationalizing have advanced since then, the underlying structure was roughly the same even though they conceived of it differently. In the mind of the axial age man what we now call the psychology of the specific man is supposed to mirror a heavenly optimal form, every concept is intertwined with theology. If you want to discuss the underlying meaning of their words in modern language it will always seem less mystical and more rational because modern language is rational.
I am not saying that is wrong now. Jesus didn't lie to the thief on the cross. But I would also have to point back to Genesis 6:1-2 as proof of my point.
>And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
>That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Later in the bible, you can find this descriptor used in Job 1:6
>Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
Psalm 89:5–7 explicitly contradicts the notion of a divine council in which the elohim are humans.
>And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O Lord: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.
>For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among -the sons of the mighty- can be likened unto the Lord?
As to who pointed this out, Dr. Michael Heiser. He did great work on the subject in question. I think this is a great conversation because I was wondering what the Orthodox position was on this subject in particular. But I guess it is similar to that of mainline protestants. I guess that also means the Orthodox position is that the Sons of God in Gen 6:2 are Sethites. Much like the Protestant mainline view that the sons of Seth begotten the line of Cain and that somehow caused the Nephilim and the fall.
I don't understand your post sorry
It get it. It is a complex topic. It is not a well conversed topic about the divine council, the "gods", and who they are. And going back to the first divine council, The Watchers, that fell in Genesis 6. Again, Dr. Michael Heiser has done great work on the subject. I am not not that aware of what the Orthodox position is on the subject.
gods (usually lowercase) use the name adonai, whereas refering to God only uses the name elohim (most high). We (generally) derive the concept of angels from the adonai with YHWH as the Elohim
I'm orthodox and I saw a quote of saint seraphim sarov justifying the possibilities of sanctification in other pre-christian traditions. But where did you get your idea of orthodoxy justifying other gods ? Like everyone will most likely tell you other gods are just demons (sometimes prefigurations, or parts of truth from the Holy Spirit according to saint Justin martyr).
I believe that I am God.
It's not really an argument; more of a way to point out that also theists have reasons not to believe in every god claim
He really needs some new material
>2870
rookie numbers, there's at LEAST 330 million
>you're almost just at theistic as me you just believe in one less God
What a silly argument
No because Christians believe those other gods exist, just that they are fallen angels that deceived mankind.
>Christians believe those other gods exist
This is an empirical claim. Do you have any data to back it up?
Or are you just making an assertion, that real Christians believes the same things you do?
yes
I know all those spirits exist. Faith in God is not about if God exists or not but if you align with creation or oppose it. I know God exist with as much certainty as I can know anything. I need faith to believe that God the source and prime mover is benevolent, creation is good and I should not oppose it. Those are things logic can't tell me.
So as a corolary atheists are nearly just as theistic as Christians because they just believe in one less God
>Everyone's a vegan except not everyone just strict themselves from eating all sorts of animals
>Everyone's a cannibal except they don't eat specific homosexual sapien species
>Everyone's a terrorist except they haven't blown themselves up
>Everyone's an atheist but they believe in one or two or 10 or 69 or 3 million out of the infinite gods
Just saying "I'm that but I just don't do that" is bogus
Anon, this is really a dumb argument but going the whole "common sense" route
If you have multiple gods equal gods, then there's no God because God is all powerful on everything
if there's multiple but unequal gods, then there's only one supreme God while others are just some deity
if there's one God, then there's one God because he's all powerful on everything
if there's no God, then there's nothing which obviously isn't the case.
So yes, very stupid. Good night
>because God is all powerful on everything
Does polytheists think God is an all powerful everything?
Not according to the popular atheist propaganda but in reality they had a hierarchy represented as family bonds which leads back to more and more abstract powers like time but the first origin is never really addressed until formal logic and monotheism emerge at the same time and place. The abstractions of things like time become sons of universal law that allows logical abstraction itself.
Polytheists have a hierarchy basically. In the end there's gonna be some supreme God or essence.
Explains it well
>essence
I worship Odin by sacrificing animals, then eating them myself, what the frick is an "essence"?
>why do you believe 2+2=4 when there are SOOO many other numbers
>the answer could be anyone of them
Btw, the answer is: No, polytheists does not believe God is an all powerful everything.
good enough to make the christcucks seethe
No because monotheism and polytheism imply entirely different ideas of what and who God is (one ultimate being, or many powerful beings respectively)
>Muslims are closer to atheism than Hindus or homosexuals larping as pagans
moronic
No. No matter what you believe, the simulation Will comply, so it's true for both
Gnostic Voudon is another example, it's a religion with adepts today, It has temples and followers, it's a mixture of haitian beliefs with gnosticism and other ideas, the spirits are made up, and people are fricking terrified of it. It was invented, yeah.
It just takes ingenuity, but you see what you believe, not the other way arround.
Take for instance, Aleister Crowley and Kenneth Grant, Crowley made up his own religion, following is huge worldwide, Kenneth Grant took Crowleys religión and decided to worship Cthulhu myths wit it. Huge following too, currently on a revival.
These people are practical results oriented too, so they're getting something out of it.
I guess the point is, pretty much Christian or israelite or whoever can get into that critical, skeptical headspace. where you understand that people make up stories and myths and symbolic interpretations of reality, personalize natural/cosmic forces and ascribe a human-like will to them, and construct a metanarrative that gives special meaning to their lives and helps explain their place in the world. Of course they do, it's human nature. So they can completely empathize with and understand atheist attitudes toward their own religion, as all other ones.
But then when it comes to theirs, they're like "no my thing is different, and it definitely isn't another instance of this universal social emergence" and basically refuse to elaborate how that could ever possibly be in any terms that don't make them seem basically brainwashed. And the next thing they'll do is try, feebly, to argue that the atheist is the one that's been brainwashed; when even a goon like Gervais can point out, you already have the same fricking ideas in your head as me.
There's no fricking difference, your models are simply worse and account for less. The Ugaboog spirit of the Congolese forest is really there but it's not relevant to me and it's subject to higher rules.
The big bang or something like it really happened, physics is the best model of physical interactions we have, evolution describes the variety of life.
But what is qualia or how does it fit into all these models?
>uh it's an illusion bro, just stop thinking about things we can't model
Frick off morons.
It's hard to tell what you're responding to here, or what you are saying in response. Maybe you're not one of the empathetic, rational religionists I assume most of them to be in my post above.
You got mad at an imagined man for dismissing something you didn't say about a thing I didn't mention. Is it very often you get upset at illusory experiences of being told that your experiences are illusory? What do you think this might mean, "models" or no?
You're a religious zealot saying "no my thing is different" while accusing others of doing that.
Respectfully, you're a desperate moron playing tragically to a type. A type I all but called out in my post. This is a turn based game here man, what's your excuse
You're too braindead to even understand the point I made or engage in any way so what's the point moron? It's all the same, models, the map is not the territory and your map is not special. It's not even practical and every post you make is pure projection.
>The Ugaboog spirit of the Congolese forest is really there but it's not relevant to me and it's subject to higher rules.
proofs
He’s not entirely wrong. The Christian doesn’t believe in 2869 gods, and the the atheist also doesn’t believe in 2869 gods. I’ve noticed atheists desperately believe in the strawman they want god to be so they can have moral standings to not like god.
His problem seems less to do with theism and religion and more to do with hypocrisy amongst Abrahamic religions, specifically Protestant Christianity.
>The tetragrammaton was changed to "Dominus" in the vulgate bible because literacy was common at the time and readers might not know that the tetragrammaton was not meant to be spoken aloud
>1700 years later it seems to be nearly forgotten in the Western world that the name of God was ever contained in the bible
Who was in the wrong here?
Friendly reminder atheism makes you dumb and gay
>Dumb
Non sequitur from the research. "Making people fearless makes them atheists" or "Being less paranoid makes you an atheist" is a much more accurate reading.
>Gay
If not wanting same-sex marriage to be illegal "makes you gay", then Christisraelites not wanting circumcision to be illegal means Christianity makes you mutilate baby dicks.
You have no response to this.
Only israelites and israelite Worshipers seethe at circumcision laws. I am fine with it as a medical practice if it is needed, but it is not something compulsory outside of Judaism and Islam.
>making people fearless
That's just as dishonest and both are interpretations. A more reasonable interpretation is disabling parts of the brain makes people confused so they have to rely more on something like the apparent consensus instead of recalling what they've been trained to believe or their intuition. "Prejudice" is basically just a word for conditioned associations and fricking up your brain affects those associations. I bet psychedelics also make you "dumb and gay" in the same way.
>The magnet makes you moronic and then you ask your doctor and society and society and the doctor tells you there isn't a God
YOU DONT KNOW SHIT ABLUT THE MAGNET!!! QUIT PRETENDING YOU UNDERSTAND THE MAGNET!!!!
I will adjust my model of the magnet as data is introduced or replace it entirely if you present a more convincing model.
>t. gay moron
>pic
Bottom is right thoughever.
Not all Christians are Protestants
Yes it’s one of the best.
They have no rebuttal.
So it’s not genuine belief it’s a reaction to your strawman of people who don’t believe in your god. Don’t make me break out the BMI by religion chart man.
So a straw man reaction to a straw man is not valid? Yet as I am being further straw manned? I am being buried under your layers of irony that fall upon your deaf ears.
I believe in the One whose Real Name they cannot say.
a valid argument for what?
What a dumb frick : polytheist gods are not mutually exclusive. There is a reason why there is stuff like Aphrodite-Isis. Even polytheists roman were kin to admit Yahwee as part of the Pantheon.
This guys is talking to me about Anglos deserving physics cause they worked hard for it. What does god have anything to do with that? What hard work did the people in the ME do to get a message from God?
Has no one worked hard enough anywhere else on earth to get a message from God?
Just stop this shit and be honest. All will be revealed if you stop deliberately undermining yourself with all this dishonest bullshit. Read anything related to any of these subjects you're confused about without assuming everyone with different worldviews is moronic. Read history comics even if you really are completely braindead or a child, classic tales illustrated or whatever.
I'll say Odin and then sacrifice him.
I mean, you make fun of pagans all day for their moronation and these atheists come along and persistently insist they are as equally moronic as them.
Also
>We are all pedophiles, I just molested one less children than you.
>jupiter
>zeus
that's the same thing, what a moron
Also:
>zeus, ares
He doesn't know ancient greeks were literally polytheist? same for "odin, thor", literally any ancient pagan would be YES CHAD if asked such a question. it wasn't even rare for greeks to believe in foreign gods, without paying them much heed tho
>murikkan educaiton
Elohim means gods. Abrahamics actually believe the pagan gods are fallen angels or a type of angel. I wouldn't expect a normal person to know that; that's not exactly on the opening page of any religious document. Also, both Christian testaments openly claim that paganism comes from demons. So they actually DO believe in those gods, they just don't believe ON those gods. I'm sure every language makes that distinction. In Hebrew "aleph - mem - nun" produces several words related to this concept like "emuno" (trust) and "omein" (verified).
I had a priest who used to tell us (the youth of the parish group) "believe IN the devil but dont *believe the* devil"
Right, that's pretty clever. Christians believe all the pagans were tapping into spiritual powers, they just weren't the good ones (which run through God). israelites, however, seem to believe pagan rituals didn't do anything.
>Abrahamics actually believe the pagan gods are fallen angels or a type of angel.
The Christians I know wouldn't say pagan gods are angels, they would say they are made-up
From secular influence not because that's the Christian tradition.
So what?
So you're not talking about Christianity but the same secular dead worldview you subscribe to that ignores everything interesting about the world.
No, I'm talking about beliefs held by currently living Abrahamics (Christians).
If you want to tell me about how gullible and stupid people were 2500 years ago, that's also interesting.
>No, I'm talking about beliefs held by currently living Abrahamics (Christians).
The subset of Christians who subscribe to the secular worldview/lies when it comes to demons. What are you trying to accomplish? Why can't you just be honest?
Why you think Zeus is real, and a demon, rather than made-up?
Because the phenomena the Greek concept of spirits/daemons cover isn't covered by any other language.
As a programmer when I started wondering about the apparent agency of emergent systems in computers but especially in real life like corporations it surprised me how nobody ever talks about it. There should be an established vocabulary and I eventually found it, in the Christian occult and the ancient Greeks talking about demons.
Labelling phenomena or an arbitrary grouping of phenomena and interactions as Zeus may be arbitrary but the thing the label is referencing is still there. The polytheist worldview was primitive, it was a worse map and the hierarchy ended in commonly accepted abstract concepts like time and space but the map is referencing things that exist even when we don't understand it.
Why you think nobody else than you figured this out?
The entire point of finding an established vocabulary is that other people clearly figured this out before and other people understand the language when I use it.
No, I mean except, you, and the Greeks.
Why don't other people living today figure out that Zeus is clearly real, and a demon, because of the way the Greeks used language?
Many do but the mainstream is saturated in PR and propaganda which is how you were brainwashed to become disconnected from your history and functionally illiterate. Not everyone is like you.
If you were wrong about Zeus being a demon, how could you go about figuring that out?
Like with everything it's just the best model. You just have to offer a better map that reveals something I can explore. If I try to apply the modern secular framing to read about ancient ideas there's no apparent meaning behind the words and that's what you're telling me to do by saying the word Zeus isn't referencing any underlying phenomena. Why do you think pretending words like Zeus mean nothing is a good way to understand the world and history? I've found physical places and history later confirmed by geological history by reading ancient texts using my models. As soon as you offer something useful I'll incorporate that into my models.
Model: Zeus is made-up
Go ahead. Explore my map.
How about you model yourself a girlfriend
>Abrahamics actually believe the pagan gods are fallen angels or a type of angel.
Just so you're aware this is condemned as an unforgiveable blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by the Church Fathers.
>you say believe in only one God
>so I will name a bunch of polytheistic gods
>it appears you only believe in God and not these gods strange
couldn't he have figured this out when the guy said he believed in God?
You’re missing the point frogboy. It’s weird that you don’t believe in all those but think it’s strange that we add one more to the list
But which deity are you referring to? There's no deity named "God", there's just Zeus, Vishnu, Amaterasu, Yahweh, etc.
Just God
There is no deity named "God". "God" is a title meaning "that which is invoked" from the Proto-Germanic "*guda", from PIE "*ghewh" ("that which is poured out to"). Are you referring to the israeli tribal deity of volcanoes, Yahweh?
Just God
same God the atheist specifically doesn't believe in. Atheists are almost as theistic as me they just believe in one less God
Oh, you mean Allah.
Sure if you want to arbitrarily change the word God to Allah it kind of proves my point that atheists only ever talk about one specific God as they know nothing about gods
I don’t read a fantasy fiction anon, don’t know much about the characters.
If I lived in a country with a vocal and significant (though luckily shrinking) contingent of fantasy fans who swore some bullshit character was real and wanted to push that belief on me and dictate my life, I would unfortunately have to learn about that character and the shitty he is in
here arguing about him without reading. Atheism was always an exercise in intellectual contempt I guess
I was giving you a general hypothetical, I’m actually an ex-Christian. Of course I know more about the Christian god than others.
Also I don’t have Zeus worshippers trying to tell me not to frick my girlfriend.
Well yeah probably because Zeus doesn't exist
See the point in the OP.
doesn't really refute my point again, this isn't the slam dunk you think it is. It's a fine way to explain to a believer what an atheist is and that's all
You haven’t justified why you don’t believe in any other gods.
A quick course in meteorology will tell me not to believe in Zeus. I think we have common ground not believing in him as there is no evidence for him and plenty of arguments against him so why don't you believe in God, it's your turn
Half the thread being Christians willfully missing the point, then huffing about how monotheism is superior to polytheism is hilarious
Whenever you think you understand how dumb they are, you haven’t gone far enough
When I found out that he was so successful I thought only in england could a fat moron be so celebrated
I don't undeestand.
Why do christcucks care about this unfunny islandBlack person so much?
Nothing he's ever said is new or mindblowing by this boards "standards"
i believe karl is much more entertaining and intelligent than old ricker
I could tell you, but I'll not. If you're really interested in that answer, find out for yourself.
alright God exist but how do I know it's the christian one and not Mgubumunmbu who is only worshipped by a single tribe of uncontacted Pygmies?
Yes. As you can see it’s bulletproof and Christians just get mad.
it moronic, imagine how many different cosmological views there are throughout history: heliocentrism, geocentrism, brahmanda, ptolemaic, youre nearly as cosmologically nihilistic as me when you accept one but i reject all others. it's a nonsense statement
You don’t have proof your god is real unlike the others, we do have proof of heliocentrism
there has been multiple proofs posted for the existence of God, just look at philpapers
Oh, which one? YHWH? Zeus? Odin? Jesus? Yama?...
which God conquered the world? Christianity
there wouldnt be israel without Christianity
even hindus were conquered
>truth is a popularity contest
>it was just a coincidence
>truth is a popularity contest
>it was a coincidence
>west turn atheist
>europe conquered by muslims and america by catholic latinos
>coincidence again
lmao
>europe conquered by muslims and america by catholic latinos
Considering your popularity contested -based epistemology, should people in the future take all the brown people as evidence for the truth of Catholicism/Islam?
>he just see materialism
lmao
I genuinely don't understand what point you think you're making, help me out here
look at the whites disapearing and being replaced by believing people, it doesnt matter the color, whites had the power under Christianity and they rejected it
>it's just a coincidence that they are being replaced by people who believe in Allah
who are you quoting
who are you quoting
>no you
can you make an argument at least?
I did
You are being dishonest
You've sunken to the point that your evidence for Christianity is, that it's popular
But then you denied that Islam becoming more popular, wouldn't be evidence of the truth of Islam
What's with the double-standard?
im not against muslims
did you know that the only people who recieved Jesus other than their parents were arabs muslims? not even israelites
muslims arent heretic just see the Bible wrong but they believe in Christ
>muslims arent heretic
least heretical apologizer
you arent even a believer dude shut up
they believe that Jesus is Christ, they are a sect like JW that believe Jesus is the arch angel michael
im allowing God judge, but if they believe Jesus is Christ they are fine with me
Good for you, I thought you where racist against brown people.
You're not so bad after all
the thing is atheist are being replaced by believers
This is perfectly compatible with atheism being true. Truth is not a popularity contest
no man, nature literally displace you, western atheist movement literally dont reproduce
What tree did "western atheist movement" fall from?
from judaism
everyone pushing it is israeli
Sad, but true
Am I israeli?
(no I'm not israeli)
everyone opposing Christ is anti Christ and israeli yes
the Bible says so
>most intellectual apologizer
are you pro choice?
are you pro lgtb groups?
are you against Christianity?
if 1 or more of those apply you are practicing judaism as those are their religious rights
https://www.brandeis.edu/israeli-experience/social-justice/2022/june/abortion-judaism-joffe.html
https://religionnews.com/2022/06/20/lgbtq-pride-jews/
and well Christianity is a given
Can you think of at least one difference, between atheists and israelites?
nop, i dont think israelites believe in God
> There are traditional sources—albeit few and far between—that minimize the role of God in Judaism. A rabbinic text, Pesikta D’Rav Kehane, interprets God’s lament in the book of Jeremiah that the israelites “have forsaken me and not kept my Torah,” to mean: if only they had forsaken me and kept my Torah. This source supports the claim that Judaism demands action—fulfilling the commandments of the Torah—but not belief (even this text, however, does not endorse atheism). That being said, there are, and always have been, israeli atheists. Today there are 10,000 American israelites and 32 synagogues affiliated with Secular Humanistic Judaism, a non-theistic israeli movement founded in 1963 by Sherwin Wine. Nonetheless, the major israeli denominations are uncomfortable with the idea of a Judaism without God.
people are practiisraeli and they dont even know
like Jesus says:
>"You will know them by their fruits"
Christianity
Atheism
just give up atheism
why pray to other god if they cant do nothing?
every Christian can say my God is better than you god and would be right
you do know that there is multiple pieces of evidence for heliocentrism, geocentrism, etc?
>philpapers
Remind me, what's the most commonly agreed on position held by the people who answered philpapers?
Oh, right. It's atheism.
You're such a fricking dishonest moron.
reread what ive said and realize youre discussing a question i am not answering
i am an atheist, but op is moronic, thats who im rebutting. theism can be rationally defended, even if i think its wrong
You don’t have proof your god is real unlike the others, we do have proof of heliocentrism
The point is, the same reason Christians don't believe in Zeus, would also be reasons not to believe in YHWH if Christians were intellectually honest
what a ridiculous claim, all the good evidence of the biblical God would not apply to Zeus. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about like give some examples of this evidence not to believe in Zeus that would apply to God
There's no good reasons to think Zeus is real
There's plenty of reasons to think he's made-up
Physics is also "made up". Mother Earth and Father Sky conceived Cronos who ruled for a long golden age until his son Zeus overthrew him. The idea that this doesn't mean anything is representative of a diseased mind that shuts down thought before it can even happen. There's not a single reason to think it's meaningless, that's just an excuse to stop thinking, based on nothing. You morons have no point except the same repetitive appeal to derangement we don't share.
>Zeus real cuz maps, I go to places and find real places
Sincerely making an effort to figure out the meaning behind words is also called reading. Not being able to do this makes you illiterate.
>the schizophrenic chimes in
There's far more reason to believe in Zeus than there is reason to believe in whichever sect of Judaism the gays in this thread are shilling this week.
It’s a valid argument why low quality posters who haven’t read any books and have nothing to contribute shouldn’t be allowed on this website. Yeah.
tips kippa