For at least a few centuries most Christian’s went to church multiple times a week for hours to listen to a man read a book not understanding one word spoken and they did it their entire lives. How did this set-up survive?
Wait, “tradcaths” talking about Latin Mass are actually talking about a mass done in Latin that they don’t understand because they think it sounds cool?
Lmao sounds like you e-Christians are missing the point of church entirely.
On that note is there any explanation as to why zoomers are so obsessed with aesthetics at the expense of substance?
The obvious answer is that they’re genuinely dumb, attention spans too fried to focus on complex ideas but I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that it’s just a stupid sub-cultural fad
Except the Novus Ordo isn't just the TLM in English. Lots of theological concepts changed and a lot of phrases that would be "problematic" to the masses were eliminated. Lots of phrases were eliminated and so was lots of theology.
Good thing the Catholic Church decides what is important and what isn’t if you’re a Catholic.
You people claim you want to go back to some traditional way of life but you don’t seem to understand that means you obey authority without question.
This idea you have that the church is wrong and needs to change based on your feelings is a modern, enlightenment mindset.
>You people claim you want to go back to some traditional way of life but you don’t seem to understand that means you obey authority without question.
Not without question, the priesthood has to be in full accordance with the Doctrine, if the Pope were to become a heretic tomorrow and demanded all Catholics worship Satan, we would not follow him.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Anon you’re either a Catholic who belongs to the church and obeys the pope or you’re a Protestant.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not him but Catholic and sedevacantist. Ordinary jurisdiction isn't here anymore. Nobody can bind, loose, or excommunicate anymore or rule a diocese.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm not interested in a non-Catholic telling me about my own faith, thank you very much.
And why wouldn’t you have that in English? This is purely an aesthetics over practicality and substance thing.
Because Latin is the liturgical language of the Church. It's what unites us beyond different languages.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I’m literally a confirmed Catholic.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Sure man.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah bro that’s why it’s so laughable to me that you people want any part of Mass done in a language you don’t understand. It’s ridiculous if you actually are a Catholic. You’re missing the point.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not him but Catholic and sedevacantist. Ordinary jurisdiction isn't here anymore. Nobody can bind, loose, or excommunicate anymore or rule a diocese.
>Catholic but the Pope and the Catholic Church are wrong
Anon that's called a Protestant.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>"The catholic church has been 100% right about everything up until the last four popes seized control of the papacy" - John Calvin, probably
>is there any explanation as to why zoomers are so obsessed with aesthetics at the expense of substance?
Deracination. They have nothing else culturally so they go to the aesthetic religious route.
The reason why wi prefer the Latin Mass is simple: is Latin not the liturgical language of Catholicism, yes or no?
And it was mandatory for Mass to be done in Latin up until Vatican II. Even Tolkien complained about it, speaking to the cardinals in pure Latin like a chad while the cucked cardinals answered to him in English.
You’re trying to frame learning a dead language as cool guy shit when it is absolutely like learning Klingon or Tolkien languages. It’s gay nerd shit, all of this is.
>You’re trying to frame learning a dead language as cool guy shit
It's not a dead language to us, we still use it. And no, it'st not because it's "cool", it's because it's in accorance with the rules.
It's already preserved in the Eastern rite. The church should preserve all the rites because they are culture.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Should the latin mass return to tradition and use the original language that it was in (which was greek)? Remember that the decision to switch from greek to latin was because that the vernacular language at that time was Latin.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>use the original language that it was in (which was greek)?
That's just the language the Bible happened to be written in. Not the language of Peter and Jesus
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I prefer Greek tbh, and returning to the Septuagint would solve a lot of translation problems in scripture. Dunno if you thought this was a crazy opinion we were meant to laugh at but I'm all for it.
The whole concept of a liturgical language doesn't make sense in Christianity. It switches from Hebrew to Greek halfway through and doesn't bat an eye, the Bible just starts translating itself. Even Daniel switches from Hebrew to Aramaic freely. And not just any Greek, by the way, but the dialect-flattened common koine Greek.
There's just simply no concept of a sacred language, it's treated as a purely utilitarian tool for communication.
You tell me to follow the rules, then I tell you that the rules say that the Mass is to be done in Latin, then you immediately backtrack and say that it's perfectly fine to break the rules?
4The woman was wearing purple and scarlet and adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls.d She held in her hand a gold cup that was filled with the abominable and sordid deeds of her harlotry.
5On her forehead was written a name, which is a mystery, “Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth.”
6* I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus.
If you ever actually went to real church you would know that the priest doesn’t just read a script, he gives his own sermon on morality and Jesus and life
The Eucharist does have a script that needs to be followed to the letter. >he gives his own sermon on morality and Jesus and life
That's the sermon, not the Eucharist.
There is a translation. It's called a missal. The homilies are also done in English.
Good thing the Catholic Church decides what is important and what isn’t if you’re a Catholic.
You people claim you want to go back to some traditional way of life but you don’t seem to understand that means you obey authority without question.
This idea you have that the church is wrong and needs to change based on your feelings is a modern, enlightenment mindset.
There is no right to change theology. The right to change theology is modernism. There's no ordinary jurisdiction now to bind, loose, or excommunicate anymore so none of what happens there binds anymore.
So why are the CONCEPTS changed in the Novus Ordo? why are there so many OMISSIONS if it was just to make it in English? The prayers changed, the theology changed, problematic concepts taken away.....
>The prayers changed, the theology changed, problematic concepts taken away
I can take your argument and apply it to the Tridentine Mass. One of the biggest examples would be the Mozarabic Rite
I like the Novus Ordo. But I understand the complaints about some of the maudlin folk songs. But it doesn't have to be that way. There are plenty of excellent presentations of the NO.
Imagine being such an inferior submissive cuck you beg not to understand what your priest that you are forbidden from disagreeing with says.
People do understand. They read the missals the whole time.
For at least a few centuries most Christian’s went to church multiple times a week for hours to listen to a man read a book not understanding one word spoken and they did it their entire lives. How did this set-up survive?
That's actually a super good point, I never thought of that
Wait, “tradcaths” talking about Latin Mass are actually talking about a mass done in Latin that they don’t understand because they think it sounds cool?
Lmao sounds like you e-Christians are missing the point of church entirely.
On that note is there any explanation as to why zoomers are so obsessed with aesthetics at the expense of substance?
The obvious answer is that they’re genuinely dumb, attention spans too fried to focus on complex ideas but I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that it’s just a stupid sub-cultural fad
Except the Novus Ordo isn't just the TLM in English. Lots of theological concepts changed and a lot of phrases that would be "problematic" to the masses were eliminated. Lots of phrases were eliminated and so was lots of theology.
Good thing the Catholic Church decides what is important and what isn’t if you’re a Catholic.
You people claim you want to go back to some traditional way of life but you don’t seem to understand that means you obey authority without question.
This idea you have that the church is wrong and needs to change based on your feelings is a modern, enlightenment mindset.
>You people claim you want to go back to some traditional way of life but you don’t seem to understand that means you obey authority without question.
Not without question, the priesthood has to be in full accordance with the Doctrine, if the Pope were to become a heretic tomorrow and demanded all Catholics worship Satan, we would not follow him.
Anon you’re either a Catholic who belongs to the church and obeys the pope or you’re a Protestant.
Not him but Catholic and sedevacantist. Ordinary jurisdiction isn't here anymore. Nobody can bind, loose, or excommunicate anymore or rule a diocese.
I'm not interested in a non-Catholic telling me about my own faith, thank you very much.
Because Latin is the liturgical language of the Church. It's what unites us beyond different languages.
I’m literally a confirmed Catholic.
Sure man.
Yeah bro that’s why it’s so laughable to me that you people want any part of Mass done in a language you don’t understand. It’s ridiculous if you actually are a Catholic. You’re missing the point.
>Catholic but the Pope and the Catholic Church are wrong
Anon that's called a Protestant.
>"The catholic church has been 100% right about everything up until the last four popes seized control of the papacy" - John Calvin, probably
But why would they eliminate all these concepts in the Novus Ordo if it's just to make people understand? Why take all the concepts away?
I don’t know anon, it was the Pope’s decision. If I were still a Catholic I would still be obeying him
>is there any explanation as to why zoomers are so obsessed with aesthetics at the expense of substance?
Deracination. They have nothing else culturally so they go to the aesthetic religious route.
The reason why wi prefer the Latin Mass is simple: is Latin not the liturgical language of Catholicism, yes or no?
And it was mandatory for Mass to be done in Latin up until Vatican II. Even Tolkien complained about it, speaking to the cardinals in pure Latin like a chad while the cucked cardinals answered to him in English.
You’re trying to frame learning a dead language as cool guy shit when it is absolutely like learning Klingon or Tolkien languages. It’s gay nerd shit, all of this is.
>You’re trying to frame learning a dead language as cool guy shit
It's not a dead language to us, we still use it. And no, it'st not because it's "cool", it's because it's in accorance with the rules.
Should we return to koine greek since the original latin rite was in greek?
It's already preserved in the Eastern rite. The church should preserve all the rites because they are culture.
Should the latin mass return to tradition and use the original language that it was in (which was greek)? Remember that the decision to switch from greek to latin was because that the vernacular language at that time was Latin.
>use the original language that it was in (which was greek)?
That's just the language the Bible happened to be written in. Not the language of Peter and Jesus
I prefer Greek tbh, and returning to the Septuagint would solve a lot of translation problems in scripture. Dunno if you thought this was a crazy opinion we were meant to laugh at but I'm all for it.
The whole concept of a liturgical language doesn't make sense in Christianity. It switches from Hebrew to Greek halfway through and doesn't bat an eye, the Bible just starts translating itself. Even Daniel switches from Hebrew to Aramaic freely. And not just any Greek, by the way, but the dialect-flattened common koine Greek.
There's just simply no concept of a sacred language, it's treated as a purely utilitarian tool for communication.
You tell me to follow the rules, then I tell you that the rules say that the Mass is to be done in Latin, then you immediately backtrack and say that it's perfectly fine to break the rules?
o sorry I wasn't the guy you were replying to
>muh Tolkien
>chad
>cucked cardinals
Peak larper.
>is Latin not the liturgical language of Catholicism
No it is not. The Catholic church was not founded in Rome but in Jerusalem.
most zoomies obssessed with tradcath shit are only doing it for apperance for internet larp groups hence why they focus on asthetic first
aesthetics are important
4The woman was wearing purple and scarlet and adorned with gold, precious stones, and pearls.d She held in her hand a gold cup that was filled with the abominable and sordid deeds of her harlotry.
5On her forehead was written a name, which is a mystery, “Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth.”
6* I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus.
Just put flyers with the Latin Mass translation in Latin. There, solved.
OP is a homosexual.
If you ever actually went to real church you would know that the priest doesn’t just read a script, he gives his own sermon on morality and Jesus and life
The Eucharist does have a script that needs to be followed to the letter.
>he gives his own sermon on morality and Jesus and life
That's the sermon, not the Eucharist.
And why wouldn’t you have that in English? This is purely an aesthetics over practicality and substance thing.
There is a translation. It's called a missal. The homilies are also done in English.
There is no right to change theology. The right to change theology is modernism. There's no ordinary jurisdiction now to bind, loose, or excommunicate anymore so none of what happens there binds anymore.
He means language as in complexity. You can discuss complex theology or put things in terms laymen will understand.
So why are the CONCEPTS changed in the Novus Ordo? why are there so many OMISSIONS if it was just to make it in English? The prayers changed, the theology changed, problematic concepts taken away.....
>The prayers changed, the theology changed, problematic concepts taken away
I can take your argument and apply it to the Tridentine Mass. One of the biggest examples would be the Mozarabic Rite
>ille non loquitur latine
Muh unintelligible KJV
I like the Novus Ordo. But I understand the complaints about some of the maudlin folk songs. But it doesn't have to be that way. There are plenty of excellent presentations of the NO.
Maybe maudlin is not right word actually. I'll just say childish and sentimental.