>Marcus Aurelius is the most famous one because he's le emperor
>Epictetus and Seneca are infinitely better
What a life.
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>Marcus Aurelius is the most famous one because he's le emperor. >Epictetus and Seneca are infinitely better
>Kim Kardeshian is the most famous because she had sex with Ray J
>Marcus Aurelius is infinitely better
What a life.
You think Marcus Aurelius had a big butt?
he probably had above average glutes
True. He spent more time than most seated on those bad boys, given his rank.
>pithy sayings are more digestible than philosophic writings
woah
Being an emperor makes him better. Royalty are qualitatively superior to commoners.
what do you expect with the attention span of modern people, the other two actually require years of work to properly understand.
Marcus Aurelius cannot really be understood without first studying Epictetus either, it's just a guys work book which was used to remind himself.
>Marcus Aurelius cannot really be understood without first studying Epictetus either
Who gives a frick? If the layman can feel something, some motivation or spur, while reading Meditations then it's a more powerful book than whatever a greek slave wrote
They would actually benefit far moee if they understood what Marcus Aurelius was doing rather than misinterpreting him.
The average person doesn't have time to study "proper" Stoicism, nor should they bother with it.
I would call your presuming what Marcus Aurelius would say to be idiotic. You have no idea what he would say.
Not that anon
Marcus Aurelius was an Epictetus fan and didn't write his diary for public reading. They were exercises he did to improve himself.
There is even an issue where people who don't understand what he was doing believe he was depressed.
>You have no idea what he would say
I think it's pretty obvious that if someone asked asked him how to learn a philosophy, then he would say ''Go study with a philosopher like i did who is familiar with Stoic theory'' i don't think he would say ''Here is my workbook with random scribblings about my own personal life, which is only intended to remind myself of things i already know'', this is simple common sense. Marcus Aurelius himself never claimed to be a teacher of philosophy or was a expounder of philosophy, he was a practitioner.
>nor should they bother with it
Why shouldn't they? if they don't get a proper idea of it, then they are going to misinterpret it and it's going to do more harm then good.
Idiotic and conceited opinion, Marcus Aurelius himself would say ''Why in the name of Zeus are you trying to learn from reading my workbook, go to a philosopher instead''.
It is to live in a state of ignorance to think you know things when you do not, and that is exactly what you are doing when you are trying to read meditations without a prior education.
>it's a more powerful book than whatever a greek slave wrote
It isn't though, and Epictetus' discourses was the book what was studied for centuries before people in the modern day started erroneously thinking was some way to learn Stoic theory, Marcus Aurelius himself shows gratitude towards Epictetus and is heavily influenced by him. What i think is you don't actually want to put in the hard work required to learn a philosophy.
How is stoicism hard to understand?
It has a hidden depth on what is virtue and on providence.
Why? because:
>You have to work on your preconceptions of good and bad
>Learn that it is your judgements, not external things what harm you, and that your emotions are the result of the judgements you hold
>You have to learn to place value in what is yours alone, your volition
>You have to learn your relation to the wider cosmos and let go of any conceitedness, the belief that we are somehow special
>You have to learn that external things are not good or bad, but indifferent, but how we use them is not indifferent.
>You have to learn how to deal with impressions and always choose the most rational and beneficial choice, which is according to nature
>Learning that virtue is the only good, and ignorance the only evil.
>You also have to learn Stoic logic and how it relates to the practice of Stoic philosophy as a whole
Considering the nature of the society we grow up in and it's conventions of wealth and reputation for example being of supreme value, and being taught this from a young age, we have to fundamentally change how we thing from being wretched characters to virtuous characters. I have been studying Stoic theory for over a year and still only have a very basic understanding of it.
I wouldn't say that stoicism is easy to actually live by, but it seems to be more of an issue of our willpower and not that the philosophy is very complicated. I also know that some texts are missing, so I'm only referring to the ones we have.
>I also know that some texts are missing
The vast majority of the texts are missing, 4 books of Epictetus, and pretty much all the works of Zeno, Cleanthes, and Chrysippus, what is left is only a tiny fraction of Stoic theory.
>but it seems to be more of an issue of our willpower
You are trying to fundamentally change who you are as a person and act on what you learn, it takes incredible time and effort to change ingrained habits you have had since childhood, you have to unlearn what you have learned.
Yet Seneca's sublimely silly sense of humor enjoys a kind of fame no one else who lived in ancient Rome does. For instance, Montaigne quotes Lucretius a whole lot in his last phase, but in spirit or in general owes more to Seneca than to anyone else he knew only by text, when at his best. He even has a regular place in "best of all time" essay volumes that no one else who lived in the ancient world does, and for good reason.