They took the look of gnome but they obviously were also inspired by i3. The dude says that around 40% of system76 customers use tiling. If this DE turns out to be good it could end up as a much better gnome than the gnome team could ever dream of making.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>a de that welcomes newbies with familiar floating windows but also provides them with a safe environment to play with tiling
wait this is really good
They took the look of gnome but they obviously were also inspired by i3. The dude says that around 40% of system76 customers use tiling. If this DE turns out to be good it could end up as a much better gnome than the gnome team could ever dream of making.
>They took the look of gnome
default look is more like xfce and can be customized quite a bit. >The dude says that around 40% of system76 customers use tiling. If this DE turns out to be good it could end up as a much better gnome than the gnome team could ever dream of making.
https://streamable.com/9cbzfy
The layout is like DWM(dwindle). You can also use the mouse like in hyprland.
Custom keybinds are not implemented yet(like many other things in the desktop).
Looking at it. Nothing so far implies i couldn't just remove their application launcher and disable the default terminal so i can just use bemenu and alacritty like on my current hyprland setting.
Looks exactly like vanilla gnome and is thus boring
I get they wanted to hit a balance of comforting-familiar vs new-interesting, but they went way too far in the direction of the former and didn't do enough to differentiate it. It's literally just vanilla gnome so I don't feel like I want to try it at all.
>It doesn't matter that it's different under the hood
It does.
It is becomming a drop-in replacement for GNOME. Like pipewire is to pulseaudio.
It has everything that GNOME has, just better and doesn't need super shady third party extensions to even function.
Replacing GNOME would be the best thing that could happen. There is no argument to stay on the deprecated ebussy DE.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>replacing gnome
look at the amount of forks gnome has had, and it's still the default, go to DE. besides i'm not sure why you want a corpo to take over the GNU userspace.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>i'm not sure why you want a corpo to take over the GNU userspace
he doesn't know
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>ook at the amount of forks gnome has had, and it's still the default, go to DE
Those are low/no budget community projects that still heavily depend on GTK/Gnome.
COSMIC, on the other hand, was made by people who make money from Linux in the desktop and doesn't depend on GTK/Gnome/Mutter at all. Their Gnome offering with their custom extensions is already popular, so I can see them completely taking over Gnome's place in the coming years unless they don't go full moron.
That is the point. A lot of us actually like GNOME but dislike the tech debt/bloat/ebussy/bad maintainers and COSMIC will offer a similar (better) experience.
I prefer KDE tbh. MacOS has these weird design decisions that you can't work around without paid extensions. Like window tiling.
I even found drag and drop in finder to bitwig to be broken kek.
>no cmd-x&cmd-v in most Mac apps >not window snapping >fullscreen makes an app move to its own workspace >putting videos in fullscreen also does that for some apps >cmd-tab and the dock show windows for all workspaces
why
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
what I don't understand is why the frick is no one complaining about this, even in their focus groups?
does the average Mac user just browse the web and do nothing else? because that's what it seems like
but then you have gayman tech places give their employees macbooks and imo its a terrible environment for programming... but no one complains
I don't get it.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
apple's ceo actually sucks penis and considers it his greatest gift from god. it gives a good insight to the type of people would be attracted to apple.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>its a terrible environment for programming
You don't need much UI for coding. It's just a glorified texteditor.
>MacOS has these weird design decisions that you can't work around without paid extensions. Like window tiling.
Reverse Engineering implies being able to alter the product after it's done, it doesn't have to be 1:1, in fact it's probably always better if it isn't. GNOME does a pretty good job at emulating a similar workflow to MacOS I believe, but I always hear from ex-Mac users that it's better. Genuinely if you could get a pre-designed workflow that is based on actual UX science (think something like slamming your mouse against the corner of the screen instead of carefully seeking buttons) and a proper code base that isn't dependent on extensions and has all of the features you'd expect from your desktop, experienced from both Windows and Linux points of view, you'd easily have the best desktop on the market
It's actually starting to look decent. I'm glad they dropped the fugly bright border highlight for the active window.
How is Nvidia on Wayland nowadays?
System76 likes to sell laptops with nvidia graphics, I guess some of their scientific and production based companies want nvidia, so they try their best to make nvidia drivers work. They also seem to be the most in contact with nvidia due to this, so I'd expect cosmic to have some of the better nvidia support when it's finally out of alpha/beta
its just more generic modern flatshit without a classic taskbar and without titlebars on windows. windows 7 was the last usable desktop ui. burn all homosexuals.
You can make it look a little more like Ubuntu, it has a useful taskbar, you can also remove the taskbar and dock if you want. You can mix light and dark themes. The talk they gave in OPs vid they talk a lot about customization. It makes me optimistic.
Looks good. Is iced easy to use? Seems ok at a glance and if people are actually using it and it's funded by cryptoisraelites it might have a future. egui was the other I tried and while "easy" it just feels weird to use. Never liked immediate mode guis. The sixty-fps company was started by Qt wagies, but it seems way too built around defining guis from some custom DSL and I don't like it.
I didn't like it, I'm sure you can get used to it but I didn't like the architecture. It's very overstructured, it might be fine for a "gui only" program but I bet it really sucks for something that's more of a custom program with a gui on top, like an image editor or a game.
I hated egui as well, mostly because it forces you to put all your actual code inside closures, but I still think that an immediate-style api could be comfy to use if you got rid of the closure crap.
I am currently writing my own rust gui toolkit, so I will report back in a couple months.
Does it support rdp sessions like GDM does? That was probably the most killer feature that GNOME added recently. I use to run Xvnc with i3 when I wanted to share my desktops over other devices, but having all the niceties of "seats" and a proper Wayland composition is nice. gays will seethe, but most all my applications are Wayland supported or Wayland only nowadays so being on Xvnc is a hindrance.
>Does it support rdp sessions like GDM does?
Cosmic does seem to have a desktop manager, but I'm not sure if it's very featureful, you should still be able to use gdm if you want rdp login. They're probably doing most of the work on the desktop experience itself after login right now. The CEO dude said they barely merged display mirroring like last Thursday before this talk, which allowed them to do a presentation like this. So there's still a lot of work they need to do.
I heard that KDE has a crash reporter now that can send the devs crash logs if you allow it so they can figure out exactly what went wrong and where. Will Cosmic have something like that as well?
Why is every new design looking like a webshit?
This is probably again something that uses html and webview instead of a real gui toolkit.
To the trash it goes. I would rather use KrashDE.
This does not use anything of the sort. Every widget has a custom draw method which draws itself with the runtime's renderer. Which is either based on wgpu (Vulkan) or softbuffer (software renderer).
kinda weird that no one has watched Murphy and his dumbass colleagues through the development of this. They said, they are just rewriting Gnome in Rust. That's it. That's PoopOS in a nutshell. The team takes existing projects and rewrites it. None of their plug inside are unique. Even their distro is just Ubuntu. Nothing new.
COSMIC is not "GNOME in Rust". It is a tiling desktop environment with a modular layout system via layer-shell applet processes. The toolkit has a unique design language that is more similar to Android's Material You than what GNOME does with GTK. The interface guidelines for COSMIC are also very different with their use of context drawers and navigation panels. The first party applets are quite different than what GNOME is doing.
The COSMIC pre-alpha is already more stable than KDE Plasma 6. The tiling features in KDE are very rudimentary in comparison to COSMIC.
It's much easier to build an app or applet for COSMIC because there is significantly less complexity. Theming is likewise much simpler in that doesn't require arbitrary code execution. Themes are dynamically generated from a single config file with oklch to ensure ideal contrast between elements and the text that sits upon them.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
stability is inherently proportional to the amount of features available and means little when there's barely any option.
i know all of you are hyped about the new DE, it's new and shiny, but it will be very bare bones and lack compatibility for a long time.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
90% of the "features" in kde is unnecessary bloat. it's not a good excuse for the lack of stability
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
> COSMIC already has more features than GNOME. > COSMIC is more stable than GNOME.
Your story doesn't add up. COSMIC is stable because of 1) Rust and 2) good architectural choices. I've been using COSMIC since summer of last year, and not once has it ever had a segfault.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>muh architectural choices
I bet you haven't even looked at its code once
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
(NTA) they use Iced as their toolkit. I've built enough interfaces with different libraries to know that its model (which is more similar to Flutter than to GTK) makes it much easier to write good apps, and to test each part of them individually.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
When choosing a GUI library for building the libcosmic toolkit with, the team was specifically looking to build with an Elm API. They had already been developing their Rust applications and services with a similar approach. So they started contributing to Relm4 while simultaneously exploring Iced.
The desire for Elm is partly because it perfectly fits into Rust's enforcement of aliasing XOR mutability. You can build GUIs without needing interior mutability, reference counters, or callbacks. It perfectly adapts to Rust's support of sum types and pattern matching. It's by far the most idiomatic method building interfaces in Rust. Which also happens to be much less error prone than other styles of GUI development.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why do you write it like a website pitching their project? Did they actual hire literal unironic shills to post here?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
why would cryptoisraelites care about shilling a UI framework on IQfy? schizo homosexual, frick off.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>schizo
opinion discarded
also, here's an actual AVIF shill getting outed in replay: >https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/99167108
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
what the frick are you on about now schizo Black person? have a nice day, unironically. if Kraken was sending shills for iced, they'd make sure to drop hints about cryptogarbage somehow.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
you're literally the first person to mention crypto in this thread, calling someone else a schizo, coping and then seething
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
iced is literally sponsered by kraken. that's literally the most distasteful aspect of it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>iced is literally sponsered by kraken
I didn't know that, but that's good. Kraken are the only major crypto exchange that allows pro-White activists like counter-currents.com, Adam Green and so on to use their platform.
Those people all got kicked off of Coinbase, who don't even process your transaction if you try to donate to someone who exposes israeli crimes and iniquities.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
also >[Deleted, restored from external archive]
really doesn't help your case schizo moron.
even the jannies know you're an idiot.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
to be honest, I haven't had any segfaults in GNOME in forever either. most all my GNOME crash to Display Manager was due to kernel and umd graphics crash.
KDE? I haven't used 6, but with 5 I'd wake up my monitor to find the lockscreen crashed. Very funny stuff.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Segfaults are much more of an issue in KDE than GNOME, but that is because GNOME programs in a very defensive fashion with a lot of runtime type and pointer checks. The most common type of issue in GNOME are runtime type errors, double frees, accessing callbacks on objects that were destroyed, and JavaScript exceptions. If you use a lot of GNOME Shell extensions, the desktop will quickly become unstable because of these issues. It's not uncommon for the JavaScript objects in the shell to become out of sync with the C objects they wrap. Which results in attempts to double-free an object, calls into JavaScript objects whose C objects were already destroyed, and the resulting JavaScript exceptions which sometimes bring the whole shell down with it. You can still easily trigger a memory vulnerability in GNOME with the right combination of extensions touching C objects in a certain order. Keep in mind that extensions can call most C libraries on the system, and those C libraries often aren't thread or memory safe themselves.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The COSMIC pre-alpha is already more stable than KDE Plasma 6.
> COSMIC already has more features than GNOME. > COSMIC is more stable than GNOME.
Your story doesn't add up. COSMIC is stable because of 1) Rust and 2) good architectural choices. I've been using COSMIC since summer of last year, and not once has it ever had a segfault.
>COSMIC is more stable than GNOME.
I tried it a few weeks ago and most features it had didn't work half the time, you fricking shill Black person.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>pre-alpha is already more stable than
If you actually bothered to read your own shit before posting, you would have stopped way before hitting the "Submit" button.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
The shilling is intensifying to the point where we may not be able to contain it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why contain it? Let it spill over into the other boards and discussions. Let the threads pile up in the catalog. In the end, they'll beg us to ban them.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The COSMIC pre-alpha is already more stable than KDE Plasma 6.
is it because of Rust? or is it because iced is 1000x less complex than fricking Qt?
Honestly I fricking hate Qt and will pick GTK over it any fricking day of the week, even from C++. Frick Qt.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Working with Elm is much simpler than GTK. You have a single application struct, or model, which you implement the Application trait onto. Within the trait implementation, you define the Message type that the application will be working with. When run, an event loop will be created that invokes the view method on application or runtime state changes, and the update method when a message is received.
The view method creates a state machine describing the state of the UI at that point in time. It borrows the application model immutably so as to prevent mutating the state while describing it. Interactive widgets in the view are assigned messages to be emitted when they are triggered, which will passed into the update method upon emission.
Within the update method, which mutably borrows the application model, the developer uses pattern matching on the received message to decide what actions to take, and what changes to make in the application model. To prevent blocking the UI, any activity that would requires blocking the UI can be returned as Commands that are concurrently executed on a background thread managed by an async executor.
Commands are short-lived async tasks that return a message back to the application's runtime upon completion. They can be batched for concurrent execution, if concurrency is desired.
Alternatively, subscriptions can be used to spawn long-running event loops or streams that forward their messages to the application runtime whenever messages are yielded from them. This could be listening to dbus signals, a receiver to a channel that listens for progress updates from commands, or background service with its own event loop.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>entire app in a single event loop
smells like spaghetti code
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why do you hate Qt?
I've been trying my hand at developing desktop apps and it's the only viable cross-platform GUI toolkit I've found.
>The toolkit has a unique design language that is more similar to Android's Material You
Puked IMMEDIATELY when I read this, looks like I'll stick to GNOME and 20+ extensions
>Android's Material
out of all things they decided to pick the worst, a literal turd, a literal failure pushed by designers on paycheck for no reason at all, breaking the little usable UX that is left. I don't know why people are so moronic. Apparently, they don't really use computers and have no competence in understanding what is good and what is bad.
>COSMIC is not "GNOME in Rust" >is more similar to Android's Material
Dropped at the speed of light. Guess I am aware of 2 shitty tablet "desktop environments" now
>Android's Material
out of all things they decided to pick the worst, a literal turd, a literal failure pushed by designers on paycheck for no reason at all, breaking the little usable UX that is left. I don't know why people are so moronic. Apparently, they don't really use computers and have no competence in understanding what is good and what is bad.
You're confusing Material for Material You. They're two very different things. Regardless, it's irrelevant what you think about Android because that's not relevant to COSMIC.
kinda weird that no one has watched Murphy and his dumbass colleagues through the development of this. They said, they are just rewriting Gnome in Rust. That's it. That's PoopOS in a nutshell. The team takes existing projects and rewrites it. None of their plug inside are unique. Even their distro is just Ubuntu. Nothing new.
>They said, they are just rewriting Gnome in Rust.
Ah...and here I hoped they were just playing it safe by using 'Gnome but in Rust' as a starting point...
It's not just gonna be Gnome but in rust. There will in all likelihood be a gnome preset and a kde preset as well as any customization you want in between. Most of the people in this thread as just doom posting.
might be the most overhyped piece of shit in the last 2 years. it just looks like an uglier and an inferior version of gnome which already is a piece of shit itself. why do these morons in linux desktop insist on running circles trying solve the same thing over and over and keep getting shittier in process.
instead of complaining about it here and accomplishing nothing, send them some autisticaly detailed feedback that may be taken into consideration >inb4 I already did
great job
System76 user here. I avoided Pop_OS for a few years because I hated Gnome, but there was always some weird Nvidia bug I couldn't deal with in other CTK/QT distros so I finally caved and installed Pop_OS and everything "just werks". Pop_OS already ships with a bunch of changes to Gnome that make it bearable to use, but COSMIC looks like it does and even better job at being functional and the look will be a good starting point when the switch happens. Remember when Ubuntu changed to Unity and everyone freaked out at the drastic change? This won't happen with Pop_OS users. It's smart to start with Gnome and slowly diverge.
can you use some form of style sheets to change the ugly windows/colors? One large advantage of gtk/qt are the debugging tools available it make developing stuff a lot easier I don't think iced has that yet.
It's 95% GNOME but with more features and it looks even worse
The ebussies told us about how customization wasn't necessary because look at PopOS, they almost have a point, holy shit. It's abhorrent.
Gnome devs and Microsoft on suicide watch. Finally someone with the resources to bury gnome 6 feet under where it belongs. No longer will Microsoft's pied piper pet project hold Linux back.
Does this mean System76 PopOS will be king of Linux now? Other than Arch, is anyone else putting massive amount of resources for Linux users that will trickle to other distros?
How about this radical idea: they work together to make the best UI? Wild concept I know, maybe it will catch on.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's stupid, Everyone should work in their own specific field of work. Programmers should only program, graphic designers should only design. If you have everyone doing everything than nothing will get done because no one is doing their specialty. That's why Kde is so unstable and Gnome isn't.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
This is such a weird statement. Have you never worked on a project where, as a team, your strengths create results that are greater than the sum of individual talents? Good UI design takes the effort of programmers, artists, UX specialists, and even researchers and engineers at times. It's OK if this is new info to you, not everyone has this experience.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
He probably hasn't worked on a project at all, he's just spouting vague nonsense. He comes off as a nocoder that just assumes he knows what software development is like.
I won't pretend KDE isn't buggy as shit but anyone who thinks GNOME has ever had a single professional visual designer in their community is fricking delusional.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
At my job, I would only ever butt my head into the designers' business if either there is a limitation their design doesn't account for, or if something they designed was so shitty I felt the need to comment on it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Honestly I was baiting and was not expecting this kind of response. Sorry for wasting your time and I hope you have a good day.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
OK thanks, you have a good day too. I usually don't talk shit on blue boards, this place doesn't have to be so fricked up.
If Red Hat dies, a lot of shit you will get affected, in the end, most Red Hat employees will get into another corpo that will keep doing RHEL practices, the desktop user community thinks they have the upper hand, the ones who keep making Linux development sustainable are corpos. I can assure you, most of the companies in the world don't give a damn about Linux develompment unless it affects their money income, and Red Hat dying would.
Also, what's with the mentality of killing anything you don't like? Red Hat could be fixed long term. You're just showing how much you don't care, I get involved into the Fedora community and there are times when community wins against red hat proposals.
>I get involved into the Fedora community and there are times when community wins against red hat proposals.
Not that Anon but I am curious now, got any stories about that?
The biggest last year was the optional telemetry, it was voted on by Fedora community members, then reviewed by the FesCo (Fedora Engineering Steering Committee) and ultimately discarded. When the proposal appeared, a lot of youtube people chimped out and started making videos about Fedora becoming spyware, and it happens a lot with Fedora proposals, and many just don't pass.
I don't hate corpos moron, I just fricking despise Red Hat alone, I want a company like System76 who actually makes hardware for Linux and cares about Linux desktop and not one that only cares about stupid servers only
Red Hat is for an industry and market you are not part of, don't get angry about it then. Simple as that.
I don't hate corpos moron, I just fricking despise Red Hat alone, I want a company like System76 who actually makes hardware for Linux and cares about Linux desktop and not one that only cares about stupid servers only
Your moronic, servers are incredibly important. Just because you don't care about them doesn't make Red Hat working with "stupid servers" an issue. In fact, if you are so glad that system76 is focusing on desktop why do you even wish for the destruction of the server side of things? Your vitriol makes no sense
>Red Hat only cares about stupid servers only
So they don't even affect your use case. Why care?
https://github.com/pop-os/cosmic-comp
[...] >They took the look of gnome
default look is more like xfce and can be customized quite a bit. >The dude says that around 40% of system76 customers use tiling. If this DE turns out to be good it could end up as a much better gnome than the gnome team could ever dream of making.
https://streamable.com/9cbzfy
The layout is like DWM(dwindle). You can also use the mouse like in hyprland.
Custom keybinds are not implemented yet(like many other things in the desktop).
Looking at it. Nothing so far implies i couldn't just remove their application launcher and disable the default terminal so i can just use bemenu and alacritty like on my current hyprland setting.
>around 40% of system76 customers use tiling
How does he know, does PopOS use telemetry by default?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
i think they just do polls on reddit.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>i think they just do polls on reddit.
damn, should change their DE name to reflect that fact. Something like SOI! OS
2 taskbars, nice. Next maybe they will try 3 or 4 taskbars and after that one in the middle and icons should be bigger too. Fricking clown world i swear.
Well, it's basically GNOME but with good devs. That's what everyone wants.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>That's what everyone wants
Speak for yourself, homosexual.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
That anon also speaks for me. Imagine if Gnome devs actually implemented features people wanted instead of going >that's not a metric >I can't see the use case >wontfix locked
>Applets
It's all JS.
did they also write their own compositor or are they just using mutter with their own js?
Everything is rust. It's a rust toolkit, a rust compositor, rust applets, nothing in this new DE will come from gnome
They took the look of gnome but they obviously were also inspired by i3. The dude says that around 40% of system76 customers use tiling. If this DE turns out to be good it could end up as a much better gnome than the gnome team could ever dream of making.
>a de that welcomes newbies with familiar floating windows but also provides them with a safe environment to play with tiling
wait this is really good
*rust
They are not using GTK/Gnome/Mutter at all.
>They are not using GTK
X
https://github.com/pop-os/cosmic-comp
>They took the look of gnome
default look is more like xfce and can be customized quite a bit.
>The dude says that around 40% of system76 customers use tiling. If this DE turns out to be good it could end up as a much better gnome than the gnome team could ever dream of making.
https://streamable.com/9cbzfy
The layout is like DWM(dwindle). You can also use the mouse like in hyprland.
Custom keybinds are not implemented yet(like many other things in the desktop).
Looking at it. Nothing so far implies i couldn't just remove their application launcher and disable the default terminal so i can just use bemenu and alacritty like on my current hyprland setting.
Rust and JS are perfect for desktop development. Admit it chud.
its not JS and no its not, use lua instead.
Yes and? Do you have an actual argument?
Looks like a shittier version of xfeces and gnome lmao
> xfeces
thats such an inconsiderate low-blow but i'm keking way too hard to be mad at you.
Looks exactly like vanilla gnome and is thus boring
I get they wanted to hit a balance of comforting-familiar vs new-interesting, but they went way too far in the direction of the former and didn't do enough to differentiate it. It's literally just vanilla gnome so I don't feel like I want to try it at all.
Except it's not. You can't customize vanilla GNOME without a shit ton of extensions. It's GNOME without ebussy's dumbfrickery
It doesn't matter that it's different under the hood, it looks too exactly like Gnome. They should have done more to differentiate.
>It doesn't matter that it's different under the hood
It does.
It is becomming a drop-in replacement for GNOME. Like pipewire is to pulseaudio.
It has everything that GNOME has, just better and doesn't need super shady third party extensions to even function.
Replacing GNOME would be the best thing that could happen. There is no argument to stay on the deprecated ebussy DE.
>replacing gnome
look at the amount of forks gnome has had, and it's still the default, go to DE. besides i'm not sure why you want a corpo to take over the GNU userspace.
>i'm not sure why you want a corpo to take over the GNU userspace
he doesn't know
>ook at the amount of forks gnome has had, and it's still the default, go to DE
Those are low/no budget community projects that still heavily depend on GTK/Gnome.
COSMIC, on the other hand, was made by people who make money from Linux in the desktop and doesn't depend on GTK/Gnome/Mutter at all. Their Gnome offering with their custom extensions is already popular, so I can see them completely taking over Gnome's place in the coming years unless they don't go full moron.
That is the point. A lot of us actually like GNOME but dislike the tech debt/bloat/ebussy/bad maintainers and COSMIC will offer a similar (better) experience.
Personally not that into Cosmic but it does make ebussy and rest of the GNOME/GTK posse seethe.
GNOME if GNOME still had features but it's still GNOME.
>DE
Just give me Aqua but on Linux.
Aqua?
breasts
This, how hard is it to rewrite MacOS' stuff on Linux? Looks like a pretty nice to use DE to me, though I've never used it
I prefer KDE tbh. MacOS has these weird design decisions that you can't work around without paid extensions. Like window tiling.
I even found drag and drop in finder to bitwig to be broken kek.
>no cmd-x&cmd-v in most Mac apps
>not window snapping
>fullscreen makes an app move to its own workspace
>putting videos in fullscreen also does that for some apps
>cmd-tab and the dock show windows for all workspaces
why
what I don't understand is why the frick is no one complaining about this, even in their focus groups?
does the average Mac user just browse the web and do nothing else? because that's what it seems like
but then you have gayman tech places give their employees macbooks and imo its a terrible environment for programming... but no one complains
I don't get it.
apple's ceo actually sucks penis and considers it his greatest gift from god. it gives a good insight to the type of people would be attracted to apple.
>its a terrible environment for programming
You don't need much UI for coding. It's just a glorified texteditor.
>MacOS has these weird design decisions that you can't work around without paid extensions. Like window tiling.
Reverse Engineering implies being able to alter the product after it's done, it doesn't have to be 1:1, in fact it's probably always better if it isn't. GNOME does a pretty good job at emulating a similar workflow to MacOS I believe, but I always hear from ex-Mac users that it's better. Genuinely if you could get a pre-designed workflow that is based on actual UX science (think something like slamming your mouse against the corner of the screen instead of carefully seeking buttons) and a proper code base that isn't dependent on extensions and has all of the features you'd expect from your desktop, experienced from both Windows and Linux points of view, you'd easily have the best desktop on the market
There's but nobody used it
https://gnustep.github.io/
That's not a desktop environment.
it's just nextstep/openstep API implementation not macos
>rounded corners
KYS
Roundiness of corners is a user-configurable setting.
t. xfce dirty air vent smell enjoyer
Where's the DE that captures the Windows 7 nostalgia?
come home white man
sorry im brown
It's over
I'm brown doe
>Literal Windows 7 clone
Soulless. Just give me something Frutiger Aero with a taskbar below.
>Frutiger
underage LARPer spotted
Lmfao look at those desktop fonts and spacing
freetards literally never capture the windows look
KDE
But that's Windows 7
Wow it's the generic webshitter UI from windows 11 just what I wanted
The Alpha isn't even out yet
Looks pretty nice tbh
what
thats literally gnome with a theme
It's actually starting to look decent. I'm glad they dropped the fugly bright border highlight for the active window.
How is Nvidia on Wayland nowadays?
There's a lot of hype around the explicit sync thing. Waiting on new Nvidia drivers.
System76 likes to sell laptops with nvidia graphics, I guess some of their scientific and production based companies want nvidia, so they try their best to make nvidia drivers work. They also seem to be the most in contact with nvidia due to this, so I'd expect cosmic to have some of the better nvidia support when it's finally out of alpha/beta
>How is Nvidia on Wayland nowadays?
It will be fixed unironically in two more weeks with NVIDIA 555 driver(beta release)
its just more generic modern flatshit without a classic taskbar and without titlebars on windows. windows 7 was the last usable desktop ui. burn all homosexuals.
t. baby duck syndrome
How much customization do you think Cosmic will let you do to the desktop once it comes out. More freedom like Kde or restrictive like Gnome?
You can make it look a little more like Ubuntu, it has a useful taskbar, you can also remove the taskbar and dock if you want. You can mix light and dark themes. The talk they gave in OPs vid they talk a lot about customization. It makes me optimistic.
Agreed, the more freedom to do what you want with your desktop the better
Looks good. Is iced easy to use? Seems ok at a glance and if people are actually using it and it's funded by cryptoisraelites it might have a future. egui was the other I tried and while "easy" it just feels weird to use. Never liked immediate mode guis. The sixty-fps company was started by Qt wagies, but it seems way too built around defining guis from some custom DSL and I don't like it.
I didn't like it, I'm sure you can get used to it but I didn't like the architecture. It's very overstructured, it might be fine for a "gui only" program but I bet it really sucks for something that's more of a custom program with a gui on top, like an image editor or a game.
I hated egui as well, mostly because it forces you to put all your actual code inside closures, but I still think that an immediate-style api could be comfy to use if you got rid of the closure crap.
I am currently writing my own rust gui toolkit, so I will report back in a couple months.
Does it support rdp sessions like GDM does? That was probably the most killer feature that GNOME added recently. I use to run Xvnc with i3 when I wanted to share my desktops over other devices, but having all the niceties of "seats" and a proper Wayland composition is nice. gays will seethe, but most all my applications are Wayland supported or Wayland only nowadays so being on Xvnc is a hindrance.
>Does it support rdp sessions like GDM does?
Cosmic does seem to have a desktop manager, but I'm not sure if it's very featureful, you should still be able to use gdm if you want rdp login. They're probably doing most of the work on the desktop experience itself after login right now. The CEO dude said they barely merged display mirroring like last Thursday before this talk, which allowed them to do a presentation like this. So there's still a lot of work they need to do.
Yeah, it's trash. I'll stick with kde (x11 session)
I heard that KDE has a crash reporter now that can send the devs crash logs if you allow it so they can figure out exactly what went wrong and where. Will Cosmic have something like that as well?
Um, Cosmic is written in Rust so it literally can't crash, chuddie
Why is every new design looking like a webshit?
This is probably again something that uses html and webview instead of a real gui toolkit.
To the trash it goes. I would rather use KrashDE.
This does not use anything of the sort. Every widget has a custom draw method which draws itself with the runtime's renderer. Which is either based on wgpu (Vulkan) or softbuffer (software renderer).
COSMIC is not "GNOME in Rust". It is a tiling desktop environment with a modular layout system via layer-shell applet processes. The toolkit has a unique design language that is more similar to Android's Material You than what GNOME does with GTK. The interface guidelines for COSMIC are also very different with their use of context drawers and navigation panels. The first party applets are quite different than what GNOME is doing.
What about Kde, how does COSMIC compare to that
The COSMIC pre-alpha is already more stable than KDE Plasma 6. The tiling features in KDE are very rudimentary in comparison to COSMIC.
It's much easier to build an app or applet for COSMIC because there is significantly less complexity. Theming is likewise much simpler in that doesn't require arbitrary code execution. Themes are dynamically generated from a single config file with oklch to ensure ideal contrast between elements and the text that sits upon them.
stability is inherently proportional to the amount of features available and means little when there's barely any option.
i know all of you are hyped about the new DE, it's new and shiny, but it will be very bare bones and lack compatibility for a long time.
90% of the "features" in kde is unnecessary bloat. it's not a good excuse for the lack of stability
> COSMIC already has more features than GNOME.
> COSMIC is more stable than GNOME.
Your story doesn't add up. COSMIC is stable because of 1) Rust and 2) good architectural choices. I've been using COSMIC since summer of last year, and not once has it ever had a segfault.
>muh architectural choices
I bet you haven't even looked at its code once
(NTA) they use Iced as their toolkit. I've built enough interfaces with different libraries to know that its model (which is more similar to Flutter than to GTK) makes it much easier to write good apps, and to test each part of them individually.
When choosing a GUI library for building the libcosmic toolkit with, the team was specifically looking to build with an Elm API. They had already been developing their Rust applications and services with a similar approach. So they started contributing to Relm4 while simultaneously exploring Iced.
The desire for Elm is partly because it perfectly fits into Rust's enforcement of aliasing XOR mutability. You can build GUIs without needing interior mutability, reference counters, or callbacks. It perfectly adapts to Rust's support of sum types and pattern matching. It's by far the most idiomatic method building interfaces in Rust. Which also happens to be much less error prone than other styles of GUI development.
Why do you write it like a website pitching their project? Did they actual hire literal unironic shills to post here?
why would cryptoisraelites care about shilling a UI framework on IQfy? schizo homosexual, frick off.
>schizo
opinion discarded
also, here's an actual AVIF shill getting outed in replay:
>https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/99167108
what the frick are you on about now schizo Black person? have a nice day, unironically. if Kraken was sending shills for iced, they'd make sure to drop hints about cryptogarbage somehow.
you're literally the first person to mention crypto in this thread, calling someone else a schizo, coping and then seething
iced is literally sponsered by kraken. that's literally the most distasteful aspect of it.
>iced is literally sponsered by kraken
I didn't know that, but that's good. Kraken are the only major crypto exchange that allows pro-White activists like counter-currents.com, Adam Green and so on to use their platform.
Those people all got kicked off of Coinbase, who don't even process your transaction if you try to donate to someone who exposes israeli crimes and iniquities.
also
>[Deleted, restored from external archive]
really doesn't help your case schizo moron.
even the jannies know you're an idiot.
to be honest, I haven't had any segfaults in GNOME in forever either. most all my GNOME crash to Display Manager was due to kernel and umd graphics crash.
KDE? I haven't used 6, but with 5 I'd wake up my monitor to find the lockscreen crashed. Very funny stuff.
Segfaults are much more of an issue in KDE than GNOME, but that is because GNOME programs in a very defensive fashion with a lot of runtime type and pointer checks. The most common type of issue in GNOME are runtime type errors, double frees, accessing callbacks on objects that were destroyed, and JavaScript exceptions. If you use a lot of GNOME Shell extensions, the desktop will quickly become unstable because of these issues. It's not uncommon for the JavaScript objects in the shell to become out of sync with the C objects they wrap. Which results in attempts to double-free an object, calls into JavaScript objects whose C objects were already destroyed, and the resulting JavaScript exceptions which sometimes bring the whole shell down with it. You can still easily trigger a memory vulnerability in GNOME with the right combination of extensions touching C objects in a certain order. Keep in mind that extensions can call most C libraries on the system, and those C libraries often aren't thread or memory safe themselves.
>The COSMIC pre-alpha is already more stable than KDE Plasma 6.
>COSMIC is more stable than GNOME.
I tried it a few weeks ago and most features it had didn't work half the time, you fricking shill Black person.
>pre-alpha is already more stable than
If you actually bothered to read your own shit before posting, you would have stopped way before hitting the "Submit" button.
The shilling is intensifying to the point where we may not be able to contain it.
Why contain it? Let it spill over into the other boards and discussions. Let the threads pile up in the catalog. In the end, they'll beg us to ban them.
>The COSMIC pre-alpha is already more stable than KDE Plasma 6.
is it because of Rust? or is it because iced is 1000x less complex than fricking Qt?
Honestly I fricking hate Qt and will pick GTK over it any fricking day of the week, even from C++. Frick Qt.
Working with Elm is much simpler than GTK. You have a single application struct, or model, which you implement the Application trait onto. Within the trait implementation, you define the Message type that the application will be working with. When run, an event loop will be created that invokes the view method on application or runtime state changes, and the update method when a message is received.
The view method creates a state machine describing the state of the UI at that point in time. It borrows the application model immutably so as to prevent mutating the state while describing it. Interactive widgets in the view are assigned messages to be emitted when they are triggered, which will passed into the update method upon emission.
Within the update method, which mutably borrows the application model, the developer uses pattern matching on the received message to decide what actions to take, and what changes to make in the application model. To prevent blocking the UI, any activity that would requires blocking the UI can be returned as Commands that are concurrently executed on a background thread managed by an async executor.
Commands are short-lived async tasks that return a message back to the application's runtime upon completion. They can be batched for concurrent execution, if concurrency is desired.
Alternatively, subscriptions can be used to spawn long-running event loops or streams that forward their messages to the application runtime whenever messages are yielded from them. This could be listening to dbus signals, a receiver to a channel that listens for progress updates from commands, or background service with its own event loop.
>entire app in a single event loop
smells like spaghetti code
Why do you hate Qt?
I've been trying my hand at developing desktop apps and it's the only viable cross-platform GUI toolkit I've found.
>The toolkit has a unique design language that is more similar to Android's Material You
Puked IMMEDIATELY when I read this, looks like I'll stick to GNOME and 20+ extensions
>Android's Material
out of all things they decided to pick the worst, a literal turd, a literal failure pushed by designers on paycheck for no reason at all, breaking the little usable UX that is left. I don't know why people are so moronic. Apparently, they don't really use computers and have no competence in understanding what is good and what is bad.
>COSMIC is not "GNOME in Rust"
>is more similar to Android's Material
Dropped at the speed of light. Guess I am aware of 2 shitty tablet "desktop environments" now
You're confusing Material for Material You. They're two very different things. Regardless, it's irrelevant what you think about Android because that's not relevant to COSMIC.
You're confusing DE for a phone UI
Can I customize cosmic so that all of my windows are circles rather than squares?
Can I customize it so it looks like Windows and not this 2 panel MacOS/oldGNOME shit?
Yeah
Does it have a functioning system tray unlike the trash called GNOME?
Yeah
>It's making the footgays seethe about "how similar it is"
Good. I will use your desktop environment.
kinda weird that no one has watched Murphy and his dumbass colleagues through the development of this. They said, they are just rewriting Gnome in Rust. That's it. That's PoopOS in a nutshell. The team takes existing projects and rewrites it. None of their plug inside are unique. Even their distro is just Ubuntu. Nothing new.
>They said, they are just rewriting Gnome in Rust.
Ah...and here I hoped they were just playing it safe by using 'Gnome but in Rust' as a starting point...
It's not just gonna be Gnome but in rust. There will in all likelihood be a gnome preset and a kde preset as well as any customization you want in between. Most of the people in this thread as just doom posting.
>GNOME without GNOME
>Ubuntu without Canonical
You don't have to sell me on it harder, anon.
what's the use case of this? it's just gnome with a few tweaks (bet you can do most of them with gnome-tweaks
ebussy and his goons lose power and influence over the loonix desktop, but said power goes to rust
a necessary evil? maybe
>undertake immense task of creating a desktop environment from scratch
>it's just gnome again
What is the use case for computers when the human mind can already do everything better?
?si=CSeD3ZlHir-wJ9zi&t=1671
kek
Kek, he was probably genuinely wondering if he could drag it down there or if they didn't implement that yet.
might be the most overhyped piece of shit in the last 2 years. it just looks like an uglier and an inferior version of gnome which already is a piece of shit itself. why do these morons in linux desktop insist on running circles trying solve the same thing over and over and keep getting shittier in process.
instead of complaining about it here and accomplishing nothing, send them some autisticaly detailed feedback that may be taken into consideration
>inb4 I already did
great job
No one will donate for your lunch anymore ebussy, it's so over
I don't care as long as it makes ebussy seethe.
System76 user here. I avoided Pop_OS for a few years because I hated Gnome, but there was always some weird Nvidia bug I couldn't deal with in other CTK/QT distros so I finally caved and installed Pop_OS and everything "just werks". Pop_OS already ships with a bunch of changes to Gnome that make it bearable to use, but COSMIC looks like it does and even better job at being functional and the look will be a good starting point when the switch happens. Remember when Ubuntu changed to Unity and everyone freaked out at the drastic change? This won't happen with Pop_OS users. It's smart to start with Gnome and slowly diverge.
buy an ad
Get better material
kek this. le ole gay strikes again with his favorite phrase
can you use some form of style sheets to change the ugly windows/colors? One large advantage of gtk/qt are the debugging tools available it make developing stuff a lot easier I don't think iced has that yet.
it's not GNOME, it's fresh and it is its own thing.
Therefor i support it.
Does it have thumbnails in the file picker?
Yes
Can you use the keyboard to do everything in the apps written with this new toolkit?
Or are they all mouse shit like in all the other DE's and I have to keep using Emacs, the terminal, Vimium and the few non-shitty GUI apps like muPdf?
I have zero interest in this if I have to use the mouse all the time just to use a file manager or change a setting or whatever.
It's 95% GNOME but with more features and it looks even worse
The ebussies told us about how customization wasn't necessary because look at PopOS, they almost have a point, holy shit. It's abhorrent.
wow yet another half assed attempt at making a "desktop" sign me up!
Does the file picker have thumbnails?
>Budgie 2: electric boogaloo
I, for one, welcome our new cosmic overlords.
Gnome devs and Microsoft on suicide watch. Finally someone with the resources to bury gnome 6 feet under where it belongs. No longer will Microsoft's pied piper pet project hold Linux back.
Does this mean System76 PopOS will be king of Linux now? Other than Arch, is anyone else putting massive amount of resources for Linux users that will trickle to other distros?
you will never need more than xorg + i3
I really want different scaling factors for my monitors.
you can set scaling via xrandr
I used to do that. It works, but it's not a great user experience
How themeable is it? Can I disable CSD? If you can't then it's worse than GTK3.
it looks like shit
where are my pretty window shadows that we see on Win 11 and macOS?
Is there a date yet? I've been running pop for years
Full release in Q4 of this year, Alpha later this month
>programers thinks they can do UI design too
Why wouldn't they be able to do UI design?
They have a design team. What, you think all 5 dozen employees are just programmers?
Yes, only programers should program not graphic designer
How about this radical idea: they work together to make the best UI? Wild concept I know, maybe it will catch on.
That's stupid, Everyone should work in their own specific field of work. Programmers should only program, graphic designers should only design. If you have everyone doing everything than nothing will get done because no one is doing their specialty. That's why Kde is so unstable and Gnome isn't.
This is such a weird statement. Have you never worked on a project where, as a team, your strengths create results that are greater than the sum of individual talents? Good UI design takes the effort of programmers, artists, UX specialists, and even researchers and engineers at times. It's OK if this is new info to you, not everyone has this experience.
He probably hasn't worked on a project at all, he's just spouting vague nonsense. He comes off as a nocoder that just assumes he knows what software development is like.
I won't pretend KDE isn't buggy as shit but anyone who thinks GNOME has ever had a single professional visual designer in their community is fricking delusional.
At my job, I would only ever butt my head into the designers' business if either there is a limitation their design doesn't account for, or if something they designed was so shitty I felt the need to comment on it.
Honestly I was baiting and was not expecting this kind of response. Sorry for wasting your time and I hope you have a good day.
OK thanks, you have a good day too. I usually don't talk shit on blue boards, this place doesn't have to be so fricked up.
behold, the modern troll, everyone
good or bad
bad. very bad!
Here is hoping the fricking kill Gnome and Red Hat for good
How could Red Hat possibly die? They make billions a year, Gnome dying wouldn't affect them that severely.
If Red Hat dies, a lot of shit you will get affected, in the end, most Red Hat employees will get into another corpo that will keep doing RHEL practices, the desktop user community thinks they have the upper hand, the ones who keep making Linux development sustainable are corpos. I can assure you, most of the companies in the world don't give a damn about Linux develompment unless it affects their money income, and Red Hat dying would.
Also, what's with the mentality of killing anything you don't like? Red Hat could be fixed long term. You're just showing how much you don't care, I get involved into the Fedora community and there are times when community wins against red hat proposals.
>I get involved into the Fedora community and there are times when community wins against red hat proposals.
Not that Anon but I am curious now, got any stories about that?
The biggest last year was the optional telemetry, it was voted on by Fedora community members, then reviewed by the FesCo (Fedora Engineering Steering Committee) and ultimately discarded. When the proposal appeared, a lot of youtube people chimped out and started making videos about Fedora becoming spyware, and it happens a lot with Fedora proposals, and many just don't pass.
Red Hat is for an industry and market you are not part of, don't get angry about it then. Simple as that.
I don't hate corpos moron, I just fricking despise Red Hat alone, I want a company like System76 who actually makes hardware for Linux and cares about Linux desktop and not one that only cares about stupid servers only
Your moronic, servers are incredibly important. Just because you don't care about them doesn't make Red Hat working with "stupid servers" an issue. In fact, if you are so glad that system76 is focusing on desktop why do you even wish for the destruction of the server side of things? Your vitriol makes no sense
>Red Hat only cares about stupid servers only
So they don't even affect your use case. Why care?
>around 40% of system76 customers use tiling
How does he know, does PopOS use telemetry by default?
i think they just do polls on reddit.
>i think they just do polls on reddit.
damn, should change their DE name to reflect that fact. Something like SOI! OS
goyslop
if their compositor works great for gaming its okay
2 taskbars, nice. Next maybe they will try 3 or 4 taskbars and after that one in the middle and icons should be bigger too. Fricking clown world i swear.
Seems to not be very performant
Check this video at this timestamp
He opens a new instance of the text editor and it takes like 3 seconds
It's literally in pre-Alpha in this video you fricking moron. Are you expecting things to work well?
>Are you expecting things to work well?
Yes
For the amount of unwarranted shilling this thing gets, you'd expect it to be the messiah of desktops.
Well, it's basically GNOME but with good devs. That's what everyone wants.
>That's what everyone wants
Speak for yourself, homosexual.
That anon also speaks for me. Imagine if Gnome devs actually implemented features people wanted instead of going
>that's not a metric
>I can't see the use case
>wontfix locked
Well, who doesn't?
Every time he says "um" or "uh", take a sip
RIP cosmic
Yes, do as I say!