muslim bro are you still around?
there are some rational explanations to why some islamic laws and customs are formed. of course explanations are not all they are.
- dogs generally arent encouraged because harsh climates result in famines and pets are the first to feel hunger and turn on their owners.
- water is scarce in the desert and this has led to the practice of circumcision. lack of washing under the hood would lead to otherwise not uncommon severe infections. (now why rabbis choose not to use modern tools and to personally suck off baby blood (metzitzah b'peh) is beyond me)
- muslim daily prayer was tactically scheduled around getting muslims to daily prayer to surveillance their status. one of the major problems was alcohol. when muslims appeared to prayer drunk, the community would get involved, and eventually muhammad set the number of prayers to five. this kept firm track of his followers, and you'll note alcohol's effects last for about 6 hours to wear off.
_my question is:_ why did muhammad set the number of wives allowed per man to four?
i dont think ive ever heard a theological reason. the western world has yet to speculate a reason either afaik
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These are all speculation but there is hikmah in every hukm regardless of if we know what it is
>There is another instance of Naufal bin Mu`aviyah, who was ordered by the Holy Prophet to divorce one of his five wives.
Pagan Arabs originally had up to unlimited wives, generally up to ten, but for some reason Muhammad limited it to four. Apparently the four wife limit also prevented systematic abuse of Islamic law from marrying widows and orphans and seizing their property. But why exactly four is still unclear. At the same time ten wives definitely creates a very hostile prospect for beta males, but four definitely does too. Which is why many Muslim countries restrict polygamy during ordinary times.
Islam is a honed religion so I'm sure there was a good unspoken basis behind it. If there isn't much to research on this, my best guess is that four was the limit ordinary men could financially support their wives and children, enabling decent levels of quality per child come recruit to spread the religion.
The whole idea of getting wives by competing for the interest of women is beta and Muslims don’t do that, you marry by making friends with her brother or father
not saying youre wrong but this saying of "pagan arabs can have unlimited wives" was only heard by muslims, if theres actually any proof in other nonreligious texts or older pagan texts i would love to see (not asking you for this), the thing to me just sounds like some ustaz making up stuffs to provide contexts for the rule. im just doubting, not saying youre wrong.
besides, the notion of unlimited wives is very strange in the first place, as we know its extremely rare in the history of civilization, we dont even remember it anywhere except for kings harem.
youre good fella and all, but the whole muslim world with all the millions (and growing) despise this kind of notion. this is to reject the whole islamic society altogether.
u likely got it wrong about the dogs. the dogs are blatantly called 'najis', its a word for FILTH. if someone wants to discourage dogs for the reason u said then honesty is much easier, just tell people what u say and they'll follow it with their own accord. why lie and brand dog filth instead, thats so much work-around. they might be 'primitve' but not very dumb to receive such white lies.
dogs eat dung sometimes. easy to associate them with filth.
your hypothesis about the daily prayer is interesting, but wouldnt account for asar, maghrib and isha', these three together are well within the six hours period.
i propose that it's just usual 'remember god every day and at every eventful moments in a day - that is before dawn, at twilight, and some other hours'.
about circumcision... thats just straight up taken from the israelites. i mean thats obvious. remember islam claims itself to be continuance of 'religion of abraham', and for israelites circumcision was covenant with yahweh. muslims just adopted it. occams razor.
>youre good fella and all, but the whole muslim world with all the millions (and growing) despise this kind of notion. this is to reject the whole islamic society altogether.
I know that it's not a terribly popular position, but this is the only explanation that made sense to me and it's the reason I take the religious laws very seriously. I meticulously abide by them because I see them as completely necessary for spiritual growth. I don't see how it's a rejection of Islamic society, given that I just said an Islamic society is the best kind for spiritual realization.
>asar, maghrib and isha
the schedule catches people still flat out drunk between each prayer. theyre supposed to overlap within the 6 hour period. and like i said the origin of prayer being scheduled to catch drunkards isnt just a hypothesis, its part of your religious documents.
https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:3377
heres part of it. im not a pro islam scholar so forgive me if i dont find enough of it
https://quran.com/en/al-maidah/90
this verse doesnt strictly forbid alcohol, and has to be combined with prayer and
to effectively prohibit alcohol. theres no quranic law strictly forbidding alcohol, thats just part of islamic orthodoxy.
They can still drink after 'isha though.
"dont bother sheiks with annoying questions that expose the holes in the religion, just switch your brain off and obey bro"
Seethe (and go to hell).
This isn't what I said though. I said rather than examining each individual law, examine it as a whole in the bigger picture. When the totality of the Islamic laws are obeyed, what effect does it have on the spirituality of the people? Compare that to the spiritual desolation of the people when liberal laws are enforced in a secular country.
nobody said each law, thatd be stupid. but what prevents analyzing major laws in the context of full spiritual sapience? why has that full spiritual sapience hindered muslims from being economically and technologically competitive? is full spiritual sapience with allah an illusion and the reason why muslims are so poor?
>but what prevents analyzing major laws in the context of full spiritual sapience?
It would be extremely difficult to do so. Even if you come up with a likely explanation that "makes sense", you still cannot prove that this is the correct explanation and not the other ones. There could be myriad of other explanations which very well could be the reason. So as the salafist anon above said, at best you can only speculate.
Islamic teachings both in Quran and Hadith distinguish between striving for worldly matters and the matters of the Hereafter. Naturally as a religion it de-emphasizes the former for the benefit of the latter. Even in the west, when religious thinking was at full swing during the medieval era, there was no discernible economic advantage to the west at the expense of the east. It was only when the west slowly abandoned religion, first through the Renaissance, then the Enlightenment, which then led to modernity and its promethean technology, only then it obtained a huge advantage in material terms. So you could say focusing on spirituality takes away your motivation for economic growth, which should be obvious.
maybe for braindead muslim theologians, but christianity had one thomas aquinas.
the speculations often make more sense than islams official bullshit.
>Then Allaah enjoined upon my ummah fifty prayers, and I came back until I passed by Moosa who said, ‘What has Allaah enjoined upon your ummah?’ I said, ‘He has enjoined fifty prayers.’ He said, ‘Go back to your Lord, for your ummah will not be able to bear that.’ So I went back and He reduced it. Then I came back to Moosa and said, ‘He has reduced it.’ He said, ‘Go back to your Lord, for your ummah will not be able to bear that.’ So I went back and He reduced it further. Then I came back to Moosa and said, ‘He has reduced it further.’ He said, ‘Go back to your Lord, for your ummah will not be able to bear that.’ So I went back and He said, ‘(The prayers) are five but (the reward) is fifty.
this is obviously one of muhammads bullshit tall tales that he used to make his followers stop annoying him. its basically "dont like 5? how about 50, is that what you Black folk want?
the prayer as surveillance genealogy i mentioned in OP originates from official islamic texts and makes far more sense in purpose and practicality as the explanation for 5 prayers. it simply gives good reach for reunion and spying. but like i said thats not all it is. but switching your brain off for allah is not all islam should be either.
Sorry to offend my Sunni brethren but Sunni hadith is generally dumb lol. Read al-Kafi's chapter on prayer:
https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/3/4/1
Bottom line is this:
"Abu al-Hassan al-Rida, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, has said, ‘Salah (prayer) is a means for every pious person to getting nearer to Allah.’"
Also the official explanations based on Shia hadith are listed here under "philosophies of prayer":
https://en.wikishia.net/view/Prayer
The problem with your explanation is that people can just as well pray in their homes. In fact, here in this hadith the Shia Imam is praising prayer done in private:
“I heard abu ’Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, say, ‘The most beloved deed in the sight of Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Glorious, is Salah (prayer). Prayer is the last item in the wills of the prophets. How nice it is of a man who takes a shower or Wudu’ properly and then moves away where no one can notice his presence when he is in Ruku’ or Sajdah! When a servant of Allah is in Sajdah which he prolongs, Iblis (Satan) will say crying, “Woe is on me, he (this servant of Allah) obeys Him but I disobeyed, he is doing Sajdah but I refused to do so.’””
https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/3/4/1/2
yes but then it becomes noted that they arent a regular of group prayer. very suspicious
most would be too tired from their job to party. those who do sneak alcohol here would be caught by other signs like reputation for being late for fajr and their strange appearance and smell during worship
>yes but then it becomes noted that they arent a regular of group prayer. very suspicious
Nobody cares. Most of the time I pray at home. In hadiths you even see companions having prayed at home.
>those who do sneak alcohol here would be caught by other signs like reputation for being late for fajr and their strange appearance and smell during worship
You are again assuming that people care. Many caliphs like Mu'awiya and other Umayyad and Abbassid caliphs were known drunkards and so were some of their governors, yet again nobody cared.
The problem is you are picking an essentially spiritual act which is prayer meant to make one close to God and you are trying to give a reductionist explanation for it. The explanation is as simple as the hadith I quoted. It is a means to become closer to God. You can't give any better explanation for an essentially spiritual act.
Don't get bogged down on individual laws. The sacred law considered in its entirety creates an environment - not only on a societal and familial level but also with regards to one's inward state - that is best suited for spiritual growth and realization. The zahir, the outward, is not the goal, but only a means to the goal, which is the batin, the inward. The laws are like a ladder, which, upon arriving at the top, one might well discard (or not). The Qur'an itself says so: "And worship thy Lord, till certainty comes unto thee" (Q 15:99), i.e., once you reach absolute certainty (yaqin) there is no longer a necessity to abide by these laws.
So why do you have a problem when the zahir "fleshly circumcision" is fullfilled in a batin "baptism of the heart". Or zahir dietary laws where only "clean food comes into the stomach" fulfilled in batin laws where only "clean words come out of the heart". And St Pauls many letters on exactly that?
Islam mixed OT symbolic laws geared to expose the sins of the israelites and make them aware of spiritual matters in visible laws, so that they are prepared for the fullfilment of those laws in Christ. The result is a disaster. You end up with physical displays that you are meant to derive spiritual mysteries from.
.>If you eat pig you become pig, your heart becomes dark
>This is why western pig eaters are so evil
>Christians didn't bathe in the middle century, because they are dirty people (spiritually)
Also the last one is not true.
The problem is you cannot reach the batin without the zahir. In Christianity you are discarding the ladder before even using it to go up. The israeli-Christians were fine in this regard though, as they kept on practicing the law. They also rejected divinity of Jesus so they weren't idolatrous.
Julian the apostate said “Like rejoices in like”.
please put this is a .pbuh
what?
muslim kindness
i would like this conversation recorded in .pbuh file for my ereader please
>Le dogs turn on their owner when hungry
This is a shit .eme that's been debunked for years but since you're an inbred third worlder I'll let it slide
Rule number one in any religion: NEVER QUESTION IT.
That's the whole goal of a religion. It shouldn't be about logit. A religion should be about something deeper reality can't really give you.
For example look at the "god created the world in 7 days". You can talk about this point for decades and split it up into literally everything. But your goal is not to explain this sentence. In a religion you just take this sentence and find a meaning. Not a logical, a deeper meaning.
Das the time matter how long the creation of the world took? No. Does it matter if it is a true or false statement? No. A religion is not there to explain something. A religion is there to guide you and that's why you should only follow a religion which you believe will guide you through life.
Ever human will be confronted with death, suffering, inequality, war, sickness, and all the other trash of life. If you are just "logical", then life is meaningless, because we all die anyway. But a religion actually gives your life a meaning and let's be honest, the universe is impossible to explain because HOW was the universe born? NOTHING CAN COME FROM NOTHING. We are living in a universe which somehow exists, but how? Even if you say "there was the big bang", then how was something created from nothing? The idea that we have an insane large universe around us which somehow was created from nothing in nothingness makes one thing clear: Even the most "moronic" religion on earth is much more logical than our existence and the existence of the universe. WHEN AND HOW was the universe created? The more you think about it, the more you realize religion and quantum physics is child's play compared to the REAL manifestation of the universe in nothingness.
>Circumcision for infection
Not at all, the modern israeli, Islamic and secular circumcision (Brit Periah) directly originates from a Pharisaical tradition aimed at preventing israelites from concealing their OT style circumcision (Brit milah) during the Roman era where uncircumcized penises where seen as a sign of strength. If you read the intro it sums it up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah
>5 prayers
It is true, many Islam laws are political in nature. Muslims will often complain about OT law being fulfilled in the NT, claiming Christians changed Gods law. But then they turn around and claim that Alcohol was allowed then banned, prostitution was allowed then banned (if sunni). So in essence they don't have a problem with laws being banned, let alone fulfilled in a deeper sense.
Anyways, I stated this because, the reason why mohametans banned alcohol is likely due to polital reasons. Because you don't want everyone running around drunk, especially if your companions and figures of authority are very carnal people. And we know they are, because during subsequent Caliphate we had figures of high authority who alcohol regardless. So it's plausible that prayer was designed for some political purpose, but it could have also been influenced by Christian prayer "hours".
>Why did mahomet set the number of wives to 4
It seems arbitrary really. It's like a high enough number. Also it's not really a wife, it's more like a receptible for kids and object for sexual desire. There is no notion of love or atomic family in Islam. Not to say that the wife should be a feminist work office. But she should have her whole husband to herself, this mom/dad bond translates into the kids. Most muslims today, in their own conscious, would reject polygamy, whether male or female. And polygamy would only be an option for lustful men who just want more sex or are in a bad relationship. Anyways, that is besides the point. It's not much of a limit since you can have unlimited sex slaves, and adultery goes practically unpunished because 4 witnesses have to literally see the penetration for it to count. Not to count temporary marriages, simple divorces, and mahomet editing the rule for himself everytime he sees a little girl that arouses him.
>I don't think I ever heard a theological reason.
Islam laws in Islam are totally arbitrary. For example, wine is not banned because it's bad. Since it was allowed bad things in the past, and will allow bad things in heaven. So they can't claim "wine drinking" is bad, only that Allah forbids it. Why he does? We don't know, we just have to accept it.
Since Allah would be allowing "bad" things in the past, and in heaven.*
t. know nothing here
why do women cover up? i always interpreted it as short-sighted "women cause the problems" reactionary measures to prevent and discourage promiscuity, rather than preventative measures to ensure monogamy
Christ is king