wait, do you seriously think no one has come up with countless tools over the past 35 years to configure their systems? holy shit, do you really think nix OS is the first tool to configure unix systems? holy frick i gatta hear this answer, please tell me you're not this stupid
>How's that been working out for ya? kek.
perfectly actually >Malicious File Injection.
huh? what does this even mean? give me a very specific example and i'll tell you why you're a fricking idiot.
It's a cool idea but appears to be suffering from troonstruction. Maybe something else will come along (GUIX)? Anyway I'm gonna stick with Arch for now.
Honestly I think military is just a scapegoat for these people, their real mission (like many before them) seems to be using the lack of CoC acceptance as their own weapon to justify bullying them for having opinions they don't like. That has always been the MO.
They want the CoC to be able to silence undesired speech in the first place, and if they refuse, it becomes their strawman to allow them to keep arguing the same thing all over again.
To me this reeks of the "paradox of intolerance" e.g. "you cannot be inclusive without allowing people to say things you don't like".
What's here to discuss? It's held together by glue and duct tape, and it won't change anytime soon.
>GUIX >what if NixOS but freedom and LISP instead of academic FP
Same nerds, different color. They don't understand production (just like NixOS crowd), and will never produce a usable thing. Guix mostly fixes the language and documentation (a bit), but not general issues.
And of course distro like that will never be desktop-worthy. (speaking of moving to it from Arch)
no img posted has ever interested me more than this one. where did you find this? how did you find this? why did you attach this to a post about shitting on nix/guix? pic rel was all i could find about it
troons are doing the usual troon thing and can be ignored since they never do anything useful
the problem is with nix itself and the ecosystem around it, it's janky as hell >It's a cool idea
it's not even an idea
they don't guarantee anything they promise
>guix >what if nix but inferior in every way
nice try moron
1 week ago
Anonymous
>uses lisp, language of gods >no systemd, based lisp init >parches security shit with grafts, no "muh two weeks for rebuild" >btfos proprietards
That's a weird way to spell "better", sis
I've been damaged ever since I started to daily drive NixOS
I can and have to use conventional Linux (work), but every time I have to configure something by hand I try to use Ansible (semi declarative) and yearn for nix in case of complex services or dependency issues
I will never use FHS compliant distros on my private machines again
>also how do you think your magic rpm, deb and arch packages work?
Debian build tools are notoriously byzantine, sure. That doesn't make them the best reference point. But nixpkgs derivation wrappers are even more bizarre.
Here's a concrete example, one of many I had. I have some software I want to package, it relies on shell heavily and has perhaps a couple dozen large scripts that are being actively developed and changed each release. Runtime dependencies in Nix are determined automatically by scanning the blob for hashes (!), which is an amazingly cursed hack. And you cannot set them directly. In case of shell scripts there's no equivalent to the automatic patchelf application in mkDerivation and co, and you have to patch your scripts manually so it will detect coreutils and other dependencies. There are many imperfect ways to do it, like PATH injection and stuff, and there's resholve which detects deps automagically but is barely maintained, relies on Python 2 (!!), and feels like it might be discarded every day from now. So alright, I'm using resholve, but I also need to enumerate all scripts in the sandbox, because doing it manually every release is a wrong, error-prone, and untestable way.
And here I have a massive clusterfrick of:
- arbitrary looking sed snippets to manually patch random hardcoded paths in the corresponding phase
- FHS paths in a non-FHS environment
- foreign config snippets
- arbitrary environment vars
- ping fricking pong between build-phase resholve and Nix code, calling one from another and back
- Nix trickery to bind all this to systemd and option system.
That looks like one huge brain tumor. Guix is at least honest, and Guile doesn't pretend to be a DSL where all domain-specific primitives are abstracted into a humongous amount of general-purpose glue code written in a non-general purpose language. You can and should write a task-specific language in Guile that is just simple enough for your task.
>and actively use flakes for my dev environment
To add insult to injury, flakes and new CLI is a clusterfrick as well. For example, nix develop doesn't behave like advertised in the docs and doesn't correspond to the behavior of the confusingly named nix-shell. Instead of providing a shell in a hermetically sealed sandbox equivalent to the build-time one, it leaks the external environment by default into it, and requires digging into the code to figure out how to launch it right (with a ton of switches).
And of course it doesn't guarantee reproducibility either, let alone determinism, because the sandbox sucks and leaks the state. You need a deterministic concurrency- and microarchitecture-aware emulator to isolate your build environment from all state properly and strictly guarantee anything. This is not exactly a solved problem, but everyone pretends it is.
>also how do you think your magic rpm, deb and arch packages work?
Debian build tools are notoriously byzantine, sure. That doesn't make them the best reference point. But nixpkgs derivation wrappers are even more bizarre.
Here's a concrete example, one of many I had. I have some software I want to package, it relies on shell heavily and has perhaps a couple dozen large scripts that are being actively developed and changed each release. Runtime dependencies in Nix are determined automatically by scanning the blob for hashes (!), which is an amazingly cursed hack. And you cannot set them directly. In case of shell scripts there's no equivalent to the automatic patchelf application in mkDerivation and co, and you have to patch your scripts manually so it will detect coreutils and other dependencies. There are many imperfect ways to do it, like PATH injection and stuff, and there's resholve which detects deps automagically but is barely maintained, relies on Python 2 (!!), and feels like it might be discarded every day from now. So alright, I'm using resholve, but I also need to enumerate all scripts in the sandbox, because doing it manually every release is a wrong, error-prone, and untestable way.
And here I have a massive clusterfrick of:
- arbitrary looking sed snippets to manually patch random hardcoded paths in the corresponding phase
- FHS paths in a non-FHS environment
- foreign config snippets
- arbitrary environment vars
- ping fricking pong between build-phase resholve and Nix code, calling one from another and back
- Nix trickery to bind all this to systemd and option system.
That looks like one huge brain tumor. Guix is at least honest, and Guile doesn't pretend to be a DSL where all domain-specific primitives are abstracted into a humongous amount of general-purpose glue code written in a non-general purpose language. You can and should write a task-specific language in Guile that is just simple enough for your task.
>And here I have a massive clusterfrick of:
Oh, and I forgot:
- unreliable overcomplicated 3rd party frameworks that appear each month and are dropped or enter zombie mode the next month, which is fine because there's several others anyway.
Stuff like this is everywhere in that janky ecosystem. I can't even trust it to be able to build my package the same way after 5 years.
no one uses nix except for a very very tiny amount of morons on IQfy that don't know anything about technology. nix is the ultimate tinkertroony bullshit. nix isn't even reproducible LOL
can someone please post the nix memory problem github issue. nix is bloated and sucks. they're also running out of money and they can't pay for their s3 storage so nix is basically going away anyway. the project is deprecated
no one uses nix except for a very very tiny amount of morons on IQfy that don't know anything about technology. nix is the ultimate tinkertroony bullshit. nix isn't even reproducible LOL
>nix isn't even reproducible LOL
You mean nixpkgs. No distro is reproducible yet.
And to provide guarantees, you need a fully deterministic emulator (not a VM)
Going to see how based the devs are come May 1st. Troons are threatening to fork on May 1st, and if the NixOS devs tell them to frick off, I will finally install NixOS. Troons BTFO!
no thanks, ill continue configuring how i have been for 20 years, thanks
you mean by hand, like a fricking animal?
wait, do you seriously think no one has come up with countless tools over the past 35 years to configure their systems? holy shit, do you really think nix OS is the first tool to configure unix systems? holy frick i gatta hear this answer, please tell me you're not this stupid
please tell us few of the countless tools that provide the functionality Nix does
>do you really think nix OS
NixOS is a distro
>ill continue configuring how i have been for 20 years,
>Malicious File Injection.
How's that been working out for ya? kek.
Was this supposed to be some sort of smart post? I don't have malware on my system.
>How's that been working out for ya? kek.
perfectly actually
>Malicious File Injection.
huh? what does this even mean? give me a very specific example and i'll tell you why you're a fricking idiot.
It's a cool idea but appears to be suffering from troonstruction. Maybe something else will come along (GUIX)? Anyway I'm gonna stick with Arch for now.
Heloo SAAAR
Quiet the big mouth benchode
go back, no copy paste here SAAAR
Honestly I think military is just a scapegoat for these people, their real mission (like many before them) seems to be using the lack of CoC acceptance as their own weapon to justify bullying them for having opinions they don't like. That has always been the MO.
They want the CoC to be able to silence undesired speech in the first place, and if they refuse, it becomes their strawman to allow them to keep arguing the same thing all over again.
To me this reeks of the "paradox of intolerance" e.g. "you cannot be inclusive without allowing people to say things you don't like".
Unfathomably based. People choose Arch instead of cargo culting over a Dockerfile replacement.
What's here to discuss? It's held together by glue and duct tape, and it won't change anytime soon.
>GUIX
>what if NixOS but freedom and LISP instead of academic FP
Same nerds, different color. They don't understand production (just like NixOS crowd), and will never produce a usable thing. Guix mostly fixes the language and documentation (a bit), but not general issues.
And of course distro like that will never be desktop-worthy. (speaking of moving to it from Arch)
no img posted has ever interested me more than this one. where did you find this? how did you find this? why did you attach this to a post about shitting on nix/guix? pic rel was all i could find about it
that's how I feel about NixOS after learning it, and this pic is old enough to drink at this point
troons are doing the usual troon thing and can be ignored since they never do anything useful
the problem is with nix itself and the ecosystem around it, it's janky as hell
>It's a cool idea
it's not even an idea
they don't guarantee anything they promise
Lets hope someone makes a good fork of NixOS. Bonus if it has an init other the systemd like Artix or Devuan.
that’s literally what guix is
>guix
>what if nix but inferior in every way
nice try moron
>uses lisp, language of gods
>no systemd, based lisp init
>parches security shit with grafts, no "muh two weeks for rebuild"
>btfos proprietards
That's a weird way to spell "better", sis
that's literally what Gentoo is.
>GUIX
I would if it packages weren't created using Scheme.
I've been damaged ever since I started to daily drive NixOS
I can and have to use conventional Linux (work), but every time I have to configure something by hand I try to use Ansible (semi declarative) and yearn for nix in case of complex services or dependency issues
I will never use FHS compliant distros on my private machines again
good thing you never tried to write derivations and never discovered a massive shell turd under the hood
sleep well
I have created multiple derivations (didn't push upstream tho) and actively use flakes for my dev environment
also how do you think your magic rpm, deb and arch packages work?
>also how do you think your magic rpm, deb and arch packages work?
Debian build tools are notoriously byzantine, sure. That doesn't make them the best reference point. But nixpkgs derivation wrappers are even more bizarre.
Here's a concrete example, one of many I had. I have some software I want to package, it relies on shell heavily and has perhaps a couple dozen large scripts that are being actively developed and changed each release. Runtime dependencies in Nix are determined automatically by scanning the blob for hashes (!), which is an amazingly cursed hack. And you cannot set them directly. In case of shell scripts there's no equivalent to the automatic patchelf application in mkDerivation and co, and you have to patch your scripts manually so it will detect coreutils and other dependencies. There are many imperfect ways to do it, like PATH injection and stuff, and there's resholve which detects deps automagically but is barely maintained, relies on Python 2 (!!), and feels like it might be discarded every day from now. So alright, I'm using resholve, but I also need to enumerate all scripts in the sandbox, because doing it manually every release is a wrong, error-prone, and untestable way.
And here I have a massive clusterfrick of:
- arbitrary looking sed snippets to manually patch random hardcoded paths in the corresponding phase
- FHS paths in a non-FHS environment
- foreign config snippets
- arbitrary environment vars
- ping fricking pong between build-phase resholve and Nix code, calling one from another and back
- Nix trickery to bind all this to systemd and option system.
That looks like one huge brain tumor. Guix is at least honest, and Guile doesn't pretend to be a DSL where all domain-specific primitives are abstracted into a humongous amount of general-purpose glue code written in a non-general purpose language. You can and should write a task-specific language in Guile that is just simple enough for your task.
>and actively use flakes for my dev environment
To add insult to injury, flakes and new CLI is a clusterfrick as well. For example, nix develop doesn't behave like advertised in the docs and doesn't correspond to the behavior of the confusingly named nix-shell. Instead of providing a shell in a hermetically sealed sandbox equivalent to the build-time one, it leaks the external environment by default into it, and requires digging into the code to figure out how to launch it right (with a ton of switches).
And of course it doesn't guarantee reproducibility either, let alone determinism, because the sandbox sucks and leaks the state. You need a deterministic concurrency- and microarchitecture-aware emulator to isolate your build environment from all state properly and strictly guarantee anything. This is not exactly a solved problem, but everyone pretends it is.
>And here I have a massive clusterfrick of:
Oh, and I forgot:
- unreliable overcomplicated 3rd party frameworks that appear each month and are dropped or enter zombie mode the next month, which is fine because there's several others anyway.
Stuff like this is everywhere in that janky ecosystem. I can't even trust it to be able to build my package the same way after 5 years.
i got addicted to gentoo, i cannot use any other distro.NIx + portage use flags would be a dream though
no one uses nix except for a very very tiny amount of morons on IQfy that don't know anything about technology. nix is the ultimate tinkertroony bullshit. nix isn't even reproducible LOL
can someone please post the nix memory problem github issue. nix is bloated and sucks. they're also running out of money and they can't pay for their s3 storage so nix is basically going away anyway. the project is deprecated
It's been dealt with though.
>nix isn't even reproducible LOL
You mean nixpkgs. No distro is reproducible yet.
And to provide guarantees, you need a fully deterministic emulator (not a VM)
>You mean nixpkgs. No distro is reproducible yet.
>https://tests.reproducible-builds.org/debian/reproducible.html
UHOH STINKY
I know about that. And? Do you see it being reproducible? Somehow I doubt you understand what you're looking at, Black person.
>nix isn't reproducible
>other distros are
>nix sucks
>eats memory
UHOH STINKY
are you a moron?
shouldn't have even asked
looks fun might try it on my laptop
https://discourse.nixos.org/t/objection-to-minority-representation-by-a-single-class-in-nixos-sponsorship-policy/42968
nix is literally made and run by troony freaks and BLACKS (not human)
How does every OSS community fall for this? Why does being called a "fascist" by a mentally ill person work every time?
Going to see how based the devs are come May 1st. Troons are threatening to fork on May 1st, and if the NixOS devs tell them to frick off, I will finally install NixOS. Troons BTFO!