>no culture
>no noteworthy literature
>no scientific achievements
>no inventions
>only historical events of European import that took place are the sack of Constantinople and 1453
>surrendered to the Turks without much fight
Why do people praise this failure for an "empire" so highly?
Do people actually praise it? Imo, it's one of the lowest points of civilization
> Greek books locked up
> People discouraged from studying
> Turtling behind walls
> Lose all your territory to moronic Muslims
> Alienate all your subjects by arguing about irrelevant shit in your holy book
> Bankrupt yourself on irrelevant stuff like Hagia Sofia.
>no culture
It was ugly, but they had it. Lasting impact can be seen in many modern "Turkish" foods like Kebab and Turkish icescream which despite the name are Byzantine inventions.
>no noteworthy literature
Depends on your definition. Everyone was focussed on producing theology/esoteric work at the time. This was noteworthy until the Enlightenment.
>no scientific achievements
This is basically true except for some medical advancement. This is the fault of dogma in Aristoteleanism more than anything though. The entire planet was stuck with Aristotle's ideas until Newton really.
>no inventions
Greek fire doesn't count? They made a lot of chemistry advancements in general especially in the area of distillation. The Theodesian walls and their chain port are also innovative.
>only historical events of European import that took place are the sack of Constantinople and 1453
They were much more involved in European matters before the Empires relative decline.
>surrendered to the Turks without much fight
Not true at all, they lasted centuries.
>Why do people praise this failure for an "empire" so highly?
I genuinely don't know. It's interesting for sure, but never achieved any of the impressive cultural and intellectual feats of the Ancient Grecian democracies, the organisational efficiencies and sheer scale of the original Rome, nor even the longevity and continuity of the HRE.
In fact, I want to bash it further. Even in Charlemagne's time Western Europe was already more advanced again. It had modern universities, it was producing more manuscripts and new knowledge, the south of France was more industrialised with its gear and watermill concentration higher than anywhere else on the planet. The East was a backwater in comparison, but the one thing they had that they jealously guarded a lot were copies of old Greek books that they centralised and hid from the rest of Europe until the refugees had to flee to Rome.
[Cont.]
Why are there so many Byzantineboos? Idk, I think purely because it's a city that invokes comfy feeling. You have this relatively civilized civilization with many interesting facets and just enough mystery. People imagined the rich trading center with many amenities and pleasures to offer controlling the Bosporus Strait, with its otherwordly, almost fantasy chain protecting its harbour. The Theodesian walls manned by professional military. Just enough military with its strange, advanced weaponry like the Greek fire that we still have not cracked today. The Haga Sophia and the scholars and court intrigue. It's industry was interesting and self sustaining, the empire was generally stable.
Byzantineboo-ism is not a modern phenomenon, many travellers wrote wonderful and fantastical praises of the city. It is just foreign enough to be interesting to everyone without being so foreign as to be revolting. They never achieved anything particularly grand, they just built a comfy existence for themselves.
>It was ugly, but they had it. Lasting impact can be seen in many modern "Turkish" foods like Kebab and Turkish icescream which despite the name are Byzantine inventions.
Turkish ice cream was invented in the 1600s or 1700s.
Kebabs aren't a Byzantines invention. Kebabs of various kinds were eaten all across the Near East and among Inner Asian peoples. Next you'll say Byzantines discovered fire and invented firewood.
Even the Greek word Gyro is just a translation of the Turkish word Doner, referring to the rotisserie.
I have no skin in the game, but tend to believe Greeks in the dispute since Muslims lie about everything even trivial bullshit. Besides the claims of Ottoman invention are like 19th century, but Greeks have been eating lamb on rotisseries since ancient times, it's hardly a stretch that they put it on pita breads.
Anyway Turks themselves are just Greek rapebabies.
>no noteworthy literature
>no inventions
Justinian's Code is fairly noteworthy you revisionist homosexual. Yes post-10th century Eastern Rome/Byzantine sucks ass but making shit up about it is wrong.
Kebab preceded Roman involvement in Western Asia much less Turks millennia later, idiot.
So what? You do understand that West Asia was Hellenic before it was Byzantium right?
Byzantine gays can never provide any data outlining their scientific and literary output. It's always "b-b-but 4 things were made within a 1000 year period!!!".
they were fighting the Turks for 400 years and only fell because the Catholics destroyed Its power and any hope of growth when they took Constantinople and the rest of European side holdings
>Muh Catholics
1) They shouldn't have massacred the Latins like perfidious c**ts.
2) The Catholic rulers beat back the Muslims for the first time in centuries.
3) They only lost in the end because they betrayed Latins yet again.
Byzos were so high in their asses over their superiority to western europeans that when they botch catched up and eventually surpass them (western armies already started trashing the outdated byzos forces in the 11th Century) they rather prefered to died out rather than imitate the westeners they despised so much.
That's not true. Near the last centuries and under the Palaiologos dynasty western influence can be seen in architecture and governance. As for the last two decades in particular there were attempts to mend the schism and essentially become catholic to get help from the Pope. To this there were several people, particularly of the Orthodox church who were opposed because they would loose their power and prefered for the Turks to replace the Byzantine Empire as then they would gain even more power as cultural leaders of all the Christians in the Ottoman Empire
Plethon lived in Constantinople and then in Morea until his death after making enemies with several church leaders. He was probably not a pagan since he was also a member of the church and it could be his opponents slandering him. He is said to have been mentored by a israelite or Zoroastrian in Constantinople
Bessarion only lived in Italy after 1441 after having become a cardinal and forced to leave by those opposed to the union of the Orthodox and Catholic churches
>no noteworthy literature
plenty of historical works, poetry, etc
>o inventions
Greek fire, trebuchets, plenty of automata
>surrendered to Turks
after hundreds of years
>>only historical events of European import that took place are the sack of Constantinople and 1453
Or, you know, destroying the Germanic barbarians like the Vandals and Ostrogoths, giving the Slavs the cyrillic script, influencing the Russians, Bulgarians, Serbians, etc with their culture; destroying the Russian fleet
That said I'm not a fan of them, they were into sick things like blinding, mutilation and castration; but that doesn't justify outrighting about them like you did or making false statements because of your ignorance
>Greek fire
assyrians/levant
>trebuchets
chinese (brough by turkic tribes)
fire
>assyrians/levant
They literally weren't around when Greek fire was first used. It is a special kind of substance that ignites when pour water on it. Not a general indendiary film. It was developed in Constantinople.
>chinese (brough by turkic tribes)
Again, inferior and unrelated version to what they had.
>It is a special kind of substance that ignites when pour water on it.
BRUH
It's not that impressive, you can do the same with bioling wax, though we still don't know precisely what Greek fire was and in all likelyhood never will.
>Greek fire
>Greek
>assyrians/levant
are you moronic ? Greek fire was first used against the Arabs in the first Arab siege of Constantinople in 678
>giving the Slavs the cyrillic script
sweaty, the Byzantines did the glagolic
ppl be like
>NOOOO it wasn't oriental d-despocy!!!
Half the countries on the planet use legal codes almost directly derived from the byzantine one.
>>no noteworthy literature
I keep thinking about this especially in the medical period when people say nothing important was written, but these guys must’ve wrote a frick ton of books on theology and because we don’t value it as much today it doesn’t mean they didn’t write a lot or that what they wrote was bad.
I'd like to see some data on how many books were published throughout the years, and whether there really was a decrease during the 'dark ages' of Byzantium's rule.
average Catalan Company:
Beyond architecture and geometric patterns, anything they did meant to resemble a person looks like complete ass. And I am not just talking about the icons, but of historical figures too.
they werent even european
they were armenians and levantines
There were more Greeks in Asia Minor than in Greece
>levantines
These were just Greek and Roman rape babies before the African-Arab Muslims horded in anyway.
Byzaboos are mentally deranged.
Greeks were degenerate globohomos of their time.
Their destruction greatly benefited Europe.
>muh wopentine empire had great scientific feats like....uh.....muh wop fire
Ah yes, the daily anti-Byz thread. What have we here...
>no culture
Byzantines ate with forks and bathed every day while Latins ate with dirt-covered hands and wore the same flea-bitten clothes for weeks at a time. Byzantines also had widespread primary, secondary and tertiary education.
>no noteworthy literature
The Alexiad, Digenes Akrites, the works of Bessarion, Gemistos Plethon, Gregorios Palamas, many more.
>no scientific achievements
Much of Latin and Islamic science of the Middle Ages is owed to the Byzantines.
>no inventions
Greek fire, the grenade, the counterweight trebuchet, clockmaking and automata.
>only historical events of European import that took place are the sack of Constantinople and 1453
You don't know shit about history if you truly think this.
>surrendered to the Turks without much fight
You don't know shit about history if you truly think this.
OP is an even bigger homosexual than the """GAYREEKS""" and BIG BYZ wiener lives in his head and butthole rent free every day.
>BIG BYZ wiener
proceeds to get sissified by slavs arabs persians turks and catholics
If you want to reduce 1000 years of history to that, Byzantines did a lot of "sissification" in that 1000 years too. How about when Justinian sissified the entire Italian peninsula? Or Heraclius sissified the Sassanid empire so hard they gave up their religion to the Arabs. Or Basil and the Bulgarians. Or Alexios, Manuel and Isaac and the Turks, to the point that Seljuk princes were baptized and given Greek names as hostages in Constantinople.
oh yeah, great times. anyway do you know where i can find wopstantinople on a map? i cant find it anywhere in greece
All of these "successes" actually weakened the empire in the longer run
>JUSTinian western ambitions left the balkan border free real estate for the slavs and took troops from the eastern border
>Heraclius overpushed the troops in trying to reconquer the entire empire instead of allowing provinces that wanted to be left alone (Egypt) as client states, leaving a good situation for arabs to take over
>Basil focused like a fool on Bulgarians, instead of pushing into the holy land and upper Persia and thus creating a stronger border defence against the rising turks
>Komnenos obsessed over vassalizing the crusader states (and acting like pricks with the latins) and trying meme western ambitions like turning Hungary into a vassal state, instead of joining forces and genocide the turks, retaking back Central Anatolia. The empire would likely still exist if they focused against Rum
>The Alexiad, Digenes Akrites, the works of Bessarion, Gemistos Plethon, Gregorios Palamas
Literally who?
>The Alexiad
Ok, and interesting for historians, though hardly a great work of literature.
>Digenes Akrites
Garbage. A sad attempt to copy Western chivalric romance.
>Bessarion
A Catholic who lived in Italy and who was based for being the opposite of regular Byzacucks.
>Plethon
A pagan who lived in Italy and who was based for being the opposite of regular Byzacucks.
>Palamas
Garbage only relevant for Ortholarpers.
Tell us, anon, what was the literary output of Byzantium vs Rome and Athens in their heydays?
Random cherry picked texts over a 1000 year history means nothing compared to real data.
And no, the scientific advancements of the Muslims was down to them actually appreciating ancient Greek texts and studying them, as opposed to viewing them with suspicion and keeping them locked up.
Again, you've provided 5 random examples of scientific achievements over a 1000 year period. This means nothing. Where's your data?
Constantinople gave up all their territory to Muslims and gave the world very little in return. They spent their days arguing over irrelevant Christian shit which alienated everybody around them, and ended up absolutely inferior to Islamic powers, even though they had the most OP capital ever built.
>as opposed to viewing them with suspicion and keeping them locked up.
saw lots of people itt say this, where can i read about it? i thought wopentines were all about muh ancient wop heritage
Michael Psellos is a decent example. Was a based Plato enjoyer, and was harrassed by the church for 'forsaking Christ'.
Kino empire, one of the longest lasting too . They were skilled merchant/ traders and smuggled silk worms from the east creating longstanding monopoly in the west: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_of_silkworm_eggs_into_the_Byzantine_Empire
Also protected Europe as long as they could from Islam.
Latinboos talk about slaughter of muh Latins but the consequences of their butthurt over deaths of a few hundred led to crusades and huge downstream effects including the speeding up of islamification in Asia Minor. Now the Byzantine Empire is gone and there are 20 million Turks there and Hagia Sophia is a Mosque. Miss them yet?
I would never trade reuniting Spain over keeping Anatolia. The spanish man had been more userfull and worthy of respect for his achievements to Evropa and Christendom that the tracherous homosexual greekoid can only dream to match.
Who even makes threads like these?
It was literally just og Roman Empire in a tumultuous decline across a millennium long period. Every civilization and state eventually comes to an end and the history of "Byzantium" makes sense if you see it, as I stated before, og Rome in decline, not consistent decline though as there were periods of restoration. Also, most of your points are pretty bullshit.