No Universe had to be Created if the Universe always Existed

How would Christians refute this claim? If matter and the universe were always there then it didn't have to be created.

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The universe can't have always existed because entropy. The universe couldn't have begun with the big big bang because the amount of COPEmatter needed to make it work has ballooned to levels that will leave the sides of future generations in orbit.

    God (Jesus) snapped his fingesr chud, get over it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      'God' created the universe and the gods and promptly left (presumably to work on other universes or bigger things), leaving a capable pantheon to watch over and micromanage their universe.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No nation that worships these douches has ever gone unpunished. Statue worshippers are always slaughtered with great slaughtering. The Holy God rains down wrath upon them for the crime of worshipping the wicked ones in exchange for money and fame. No matter how tall and mighty you build those statues, they will never be able to save you for they are just metal, wood and stone. Their spirits that nest in them may have been able to influence your life here and there, but they will not save you from the wrath of the Holy One since they are the ones on who the wrath will fall upon first.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >entropy
      Only matters to closed systems. And infinite and eternal Universe is not a closed system. In fact, closed systems are a pure mathematical artefact and have no evidence for existing in reality.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It does matter.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >pure mathematical artefact and have no evidence for existing in reality.
        just like actual infinites

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >getting mad about dark matter when we can actually see it
      >not even a mond coper
      I don't know why creationists call themselves such when they reject the actual creation in front of them.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The universe can't have always existed because entropy.
      Maybe the mechanics of energy were different at some point.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        what caused them to change?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >what caused them to change?
          If I don't know does that mean it can't be true?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            if the universe is infinite what caused anything to change?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >if the universe is infinite what caused anything to change?
            If I don't know, does that mean it can't be true?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Maybe it happened like this?
            >How do you think that could have happened?
            >I dunno. Does it matter?
            >How do you think that could have happened?
            >I dunno. Does it matter?
            Riveting stuff.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I mean if you have to believe in something that goes against the current science just for your belief system to work it kinda matters

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How would Christians refute this claim? If matter and the universe were always there then it didn't have to be created.
    how do you know the universe is uncreated

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Playing the devil's advocate if matter can't be created or destroyed it means matter can't be created so matter and the universe always existed.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There can't be wars if all countries made laws banning it.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    even if the universe existed forever and could this prove this undoubtedly, it stills doesnt preclude the universe from being created. god could have created it from the 4th dimension.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That's just Neo-Platonism. As you would have to explain the following
    >Ethics/Morals
    >Epistemic Justification
    >How is knowledge possible?
    and so forth, but it's impossible, as you'll run into roadblock after roadblock.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what a great God who designed it that way

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How would Christians refute this claim?
    The big bang?

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What we call "the universe" is merely the "observable universe"
    Light is limited and we cannot see beyond a certain scale, for all we know what we observe is merely one structure of an infinite amount like it out there beyond what is observable but we'll never know for sure due to being unable to observe beyond a certain point

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >No Universe had to be Created if the Universe always Existed
    Well firstly I would ask for scientific proof or philosophical proof of this assertion. An argument from contingency still works though

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    big bang/heliocentrism/globe earth are false ideas and, therefore, require no refutation

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How would Christians refute this claim?
    The universe didn't always exist. We know it had a definite beginning.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >we know
      No we don't

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I do.
        >Space cannot have an infinite past because there couldn't have been not enough time for the present to happen yet before it did with an infinite past.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Nonsense

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Christians believe the universe always existed, that is, since the beginning. That doesn't mean it's self existent.

    If the universe were self existent, yes it's true that it wouldn't need to have been created.

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