How would Christians refute this claim? If matter and the universe were always there then it didn't have to be created.
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No Universe had to be Created if the Universe always Existed
How would Christians refute this claim? If matter and the universe were always there then it didn't have to be created.
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The universe can't have always existed because entropy. The universe couldn't have begun with the big big bang because the amount of COPEmatter needed to make it work has ballooned to levels that will leave the sides of future generations in orbit.
God (Jesus) snapped his fingesr chud, get over it.
'God' created the universe and the gods and promptly left (presumably to work on other universes or bigger things), leaving a capable pantheon to watch over and micromanage their universe.
No nation that worships these douches has ever gone unpunished. Statue worshippers are always slaughtered with great slaughtering. The Holy God rains down wrath upon them for the crime of worshipping the wicked ones in exchange for money and fame. No matter how tall and mighty you build those statues, they will never be able to save you for they are just metal, wood and stone. Their spirits that nest in them may have been able to influence your life here and there, but they will not save you from the wrath of the Holy One since they are the ones on who the wrath will fall upon first.
>entropy
Only matters to closed systems. And infinite and eternal Universe is not a closed system. In fact, closed systems are a pure mathematical artefact and have no evidence for existing in reality.
It does matter.
>pure mathematical artefact and have no evidence for existing in reality.
just like actual infinites
>getting mad about dark matter when we can actually see it
>not even a mond coper
I don't know why creationists call themselves such when they reject the actual creation in front of them.
>The universe can't have always existed because entropy.
Maybe the mechanics of energy were different at some point.
what caused them to change?
>what caused them to change?
If I don't know does that mean it can't be true?
if the universe is infinite what caused anything to change?
>if the universe is infinite what caused anything to change?
If I don't know, does that mean it can't be true?
>Maybe it happened like this?
>How do you think that could have happened?
>I dunno. Does it matter?
>How do you think that could have happened?
>I dunno. Does it matter?
Riveting stuff.
I mean if you have to believe in something that goes against the current science just for your belief system to work it kinda matters
>How would Christians refute this claim? If matter and the universe were always there then it didn't have to be created.
how do you know the universe is uncreated
Playing the devil's advocate if matter can't be created or destroyed it means matter can't be created so matter and the universe always existed.
There can't be wars if all countries made laws banning it.
even if the universe existed forever and could this prove this undoubtedly, it stills doesnt preclude the universe from being created. god could have created it from the 4th dimension.
That's just Neo-Platonism. As you would have to explain the following
>Ethics/Morals
>Epistemic Justification
>How is knowledge possible?
and so forth, but it's impossible, as you'll run into roadblock after roadblock.
what a great God who designed it that way
>How would Christians refute this claim?
The big bang?
What we call "the universe" is merely the "observable universe"
Light is limited and we cannot see beyond a certain scale, for all we know what we observe is merely one structure of an infinite amount like it out there beyond what is observable but we'll never know for sure due to being unable to observe beyond a certain point
>No Universe had to be Created if the Universe always Existed
Well firstly I would ask for scientific proof or philosophical proof of this assertion. An argument from contingency still works though
big bang/heliocentrism/globe earth are false ideas and, therefore, require no refutation
>How would Christians refute this claim?
The universe didn't always exist. We know it had a definite beginning.
>we know
No we don't
I do.
>Space cannot have an infinite past because there couldn't have been not enough time for the present to happen yet before it did with an infinite past.
Nonsense
Christians believe the universe always existed, that is, since the beginning. That doesn't mean it's self existent.
If the universe were self existent, yes it's true that it wouldn't need to have been created.