Please tell me why Plato's Republic is so important. I read it and I found virtually nothing of note.

Please tell me why Plato's Republic is so important. I read it and I found virtually nothing of note. Please explain to me why this lousy book is apparently so important to the Western Canon.

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  1. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I found virtually nothing of note.
    this says more about you than about the Republic

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      Elaborate.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        bruh, Socrates literally takes his interlocutors aside, asks them
        >would you be a good person if there was absolutely no practical reason to be a good person, if you could have anything you want, if you could get away with anything, etc.
        so, he laid into his interlocutors with a challenge as real as it gets, striking at the heart of the issue. who then strike right back, making Socrates face a challenge of how to promote justice even though it is an intangible, possibly unreal thing, goes through hundreds of pages of thought experiments to try to tie it all in together (and arguably fails). it's got sociology, economics, psychology, theology, epistemology, ethics, gender, race, politics, mythology, etc. tied together.

        how the frick did you not pull out anything of value? are you a mouth-breathing moron or something?

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          I think you got filtered. At very least it should point you towards questions that need investigation, as notes.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          >you a mouth-breathing moron or something?
          obviously

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          Here's the answer to the question:
          >Yes because I don't want to hurt people and help myself at their expense, if I can I'd like to help them
          Or if you're a psycho
          >No I wouldn't, the only thing keeping me from hurting people is the law coming after me
          There I just answered the question without 500 pages of unnecessary pedantic analysis, this is what I hate about the greeks.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            Don't discard "pendantic analysis". Many new tested ideas emerged from pendantic analyses. I know. You are fed up with the mountains of bullshit ideas that emerged from pedantic analysis. So treat it as an exercise in mental sharpness. You will lose what you don't use. So keep using your analytical faculty and cut through the bullshit.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why read Plato though and not a random crank? Plato's success rate relative to what we actually know today is so low you might as well just read a random crank.
            >inb4 you are dumb because you are using modern standards on a guy born very long ago
            I'm not commenting on Plato's intelligence so this is irrelevant

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            Could you mention two things Plato was wrong about?

            What should I read?

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            1. He was wrong about killing disabled kids and elderly people who fornicate
            2. He was wrong about lying to lower class people to keep them subservient

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            He was wrong because... HE WAS JUST WRONG OKAY!?!?

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            He himself admitted he was wrong about supporting Dionysius of Syracuse. That is something he admitted.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            and?

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            NTA but you suck at arguing just chiming in

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            What books does he state his political positions because it seems all the greeks do in their books is ask never ending questions to their initial elementary question never taking a stance or saying anything interesting like those two things.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            The Letters if you consider those authentic. Also in general, any Socratic dialogue or Platonic dialogue it is usually Socrates or the Athenian Stranger who is assumed to hold Plato’s position.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            Do you consider them authentic?

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            Seventh Letter might be.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            Generally, the Seventh is the only one considered authentic but the rest were likely by acolytes of Plato and are still a good look into the political leanings of Dionysius of Syracuse.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >uhhh I don't wanna hurt people
            Why not? Some people deserve to be hurt.
            >h-h-how dare you?!?!!
            Okay Christcuck. (You're probably not even Christian). What if you ended up helping Hitler?
            >but that would be based wouldn't it?
            Okay, you're THAT kind of guy? Substitute the Sith-looking WEF homie for Hitler.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is either bait or you're too young to post here

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Says the guy posting children's cartoons in his responses
            LOL

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Why be a good person? I just want to, okay?!?!
            This is why everyone is reading Plato instead of you.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          >bruh
          Post ignored.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          This exactly.
          I think that the Republic is special among the works of Plato, insofar as it presents a very systematic picture of Plato's philosophy. For example, he does not go into as much philosophical depth when he for example investigates the question "What is knowledge", as he does in the Theaitetos, but in the Republic he provides a more positive and substantial answer to the question and he focuses on how knowledge is tied to being and to the good, as he does with any other topic which is treated in the book.

          >Assuming that the Book *peri tou dikaiou* is mainly about politics and only about politics
          I think that I have an explanation, why you as well did not find anything of great value in this book.

          Very interesting paper.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      no

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      no, you're actually just moronic for not noticing that the greeks are midwit-tier. there's no point in wasting time explaining it to you, as brainlets like you go extinct in the longrun, anyway.

      bruh, Socrates literally takes his interlocutors aside, asks them
      >would you be a good person if there was absolutely no practical reason to be a good person, if you could have anything you want, if you could get away with anything, etc.
      so, he laid into his interlocutors with a challenge as real as it gets, striking at the heart of the issue. who then strike right back, making Socrates face a challenge of how to promote justice even though it is an intangible, possibly unreal thing, goes through hundreds of pages of thought experiments to try to tie it all in together (and arguably fails). it's got sociology, economics, psychology, theology, epistemology, ethics, gender, race, politics, mythology, etc. tied together.

      how the frick did you not pull out anything of value? are you a mouth-breathing moron or something?

      >bruh
      >are you a mouth-breathing moron or something?
      midwits' lack of self-awareness never gets old.

      I think you got filtered. At very least it should point you towards questions that need investigation, as notes.

      neither does their condescesion.
      if only there was a way for you idiots to go extinct faster than waiting tens of thousands of years for evolution by social selection to have its effect. oh well, i guess i will just try to ignore your predictably shit opinions while i'm stuck living on the same planet as you. i will start by ceasing visiting this board, as it's pretty much entirely infested with pretentious subhumans who will never learn just how hopelessly inferior they are.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        if the Plato is only a mid-wit compared to you, than this board must be utterly stupid and almost animalistic for you. Please do yourself the favour of never coming back to this moronic place, where people think that Plato was a great philosopher and where people do not even know your philosophical achievments. It would only be a waste of time for (you)

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Meds

  2. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Don't worry. Reading the Greeks is primarily useful for historical purposes, and understanding the bases of later discussions. People here act like they got a ton out of Plato because they are too moronic to think for themselves, and nobody forced them to listen to any remotely recent political theory. The Republic is utterly foundational for political philosophy, but it's also entirely useless for anyone who has any familiarity with the subject. Morons want others to praise them, and they mistake confidence in an opinion with the value of that opinion, plus they can't understand theories written by literate societies, so they pretend they're ahead of the curve by abstaining from critical discourse of their idols.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >writes an entire paragraph to cope with being filtered

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        I wasn't filtered, I got the point. However, none of the insights were new to me, because it's fricking 2500 years old. I could pretend to be wowed by them for social credit, but I'm not a moron.
        >ooh look at me I'm impressed by philosophy that's been superseded for 2200 years
        >what do you mean its conclusions are the basic concepts our society teaches to children

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          >I got the point.
          please brainlet enlighten us on this point

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I can misinterpret turns of phrase

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          >thinking philosophy progresses
          Ngmi

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >thinking that political philosophy is synonymous with the generic pursuit of knowledge
            Yeah, we do actually know that Plato was fundamentally wrong about human psychology and the way large groups of people respond to stimuli. Or are you still looking for your soulmate and expect to see Achilles in the Elysian fields

            I genuinely do not think you got any point if you think you got "the point" because Plato's Republic is infamously layered. You're meant to read it as if it were a literary work, rich in imagery and implication, if you want to get the most out of it. It's not a logical treatise.

            Yeah, no shit. I'm not a moron, sorry for assuming I'd have to couch literally every turn of phrase.

            >The Republic is utterly foundational for political philosophy,
            sigh. the ideal polis is also a symbol for a metaphysical reality. the political interpretation is the basic b***h take, then comes the high iq metaphysical take. but your ignorance and stupidity gives you the hubris to claim there is nothing there because you can't see it.

            >I didn't find it insightful
            >oh so you think it's entirely valueless?
            The non political interpretations are at best interesting, but not if you've read any philosophy post-AD as well.

            Which is it, you all, do you want me to pretend you're all toddlers or to assume you're all academics? Because these responses are just confirming my suspicions that you read Plato because you're close-minded.

          • 9 months ago
            Sage

            >political philosophy changes
            In practice but not abstract
            >Yeah, we do actually know that Plato was fundamentally wrong about human psychology and the way large groups of people respond to stimuli.
            Gay, moronic, and onions? You must be a hit at parties!
            >Or are you still looking for your soulmate and expect to see Achilles in the Elysian fields
            Lmao incredibly filtered -- like pure pottery

            No more (you)'s, hiding this stupidity from catalog

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why do you pretend these words aren't essentially random noise with a vaguely negative vibe? You can pretend to superiority all you want, but all this comes across as is seething

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're just moronic bro. Sorry you got filtered

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >The non political interpretations are at best interesting,
            woosh

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I have such good thoughts they're not worth casting before swine

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >t.

            >Therefore, you, sons of learning and wisdom, seek diligently in this book, gathering together our scattered intention which we have presented in various places. What has been hidden from you in one place, we have made evident in another, so that it may be revealed to you, the wise ones. For we have written this for you alone.

            May you one day understand brainlet

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            I prefer to seek wisdom in sources that don't inspire incredibly shitty conclusions in their followers

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Yeah, we do actually know that Plato was fundamentally wrong about human psychology and the way large groups of people respond to stimuli. Or are you still looking for your soulmate and expect to see Achilles in the Elysian fields
            Explain. I don't think Plato discussed crowd psychology at all, really.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >t. I barely read at all. Most of my conclusions come from hearing what other people have said about the specific works/authors and i've never even read it.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            >fundamentally wrong about human psychology
            What is fundamentally correct about human psychology?

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          I genuinely do not think you got any point if you think you got "the point" because Plato's Republic is infamously layered. You're meant to read it as if it were a literary work, rich in imagery and implication, if you want to get the most out of it. It's not a logical treatise.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          >I wasn't filtered, I got the point. However, none of the insights were new to me, because it's fricking 2500 years old.
          You didn't read it, your eyes glanced across the page, confirming that there were more or less familiar words in front of you, and you barreled through like you were trying to finish a graphic novel that you don't expect to have to stop and think about at all. It wouldn't be any different with something more recent, you'd just be more excited about whatever sucks your dick about opinions you already have.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      They havn't learned about the daemons yet that's why

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The Republic is utterly foundational for political philosophy,
      sigh. the ideal polis is also a symbol for a metaphysical reality. the political interpretation is the basic b***h take, then comes the high iq metaphysical take. but your ignorance and stupidity gives you the hubris to claim there is nothing there because you can't see it.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        What is the metaphysical interpretation of the Republic?

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          It's very boring actually, it's just pointing out that in Platonism the ideal forms exist metaphysically, so Plato's ideal city exists metaphysically.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        >the political interpretation is the basic b***h take, then comes the high iq metaphysical take
        The political implications of the dialogue, and the questions they raise, are every bit as important.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          important, but not as important. The metaphysical message of the book solves all practical problems, including the politicsl. reading it as a political treatise is a consolation prize for those who cannot see the higher prize.

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            what is the metaphysical message

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            The Daemonic

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >People here act like they got a ton out of Plato because they are too moronic to think for themselves
      Just because my understanding of Plato is mixed in with the later historical precedents he set doesn't mean I haven't found individual things of note in him that I still think about regularly.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      It’s satire, like the Prince. Ya got filtered

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Assuming that the Book *peri tou dikaiou* is mainly about politics and only about politics
      I think that I have an explanation, why you as well did not find anything of great value in this book.

  3. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I read it and I found virtually nothing of note
    How does this happen? Are you American? Non-white? Low IQ? What could cause such incredible filtering?

  4. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    midwit

  5. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I read it
    unless you can read greek you didn't read it

    > I found virtually nothing of note.
    now I know you can't read greek

  6. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    can't you guys elaborate? you're writing very presuppority(?)

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      They can't. If your view has no foundation you can only deflect with ad hominem etc

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        or y'know

        >I have such good thoughts they're not worth casting before swine

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          A clearly sarcastic remark you're now gladly taking up at face value. You know nobody ever buys that rhetoric?

          • 9 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, just to confirm, as the author of what they cite, you are correct.
            It's rhetorically surrender to resort to "you wouldn't understand my argument if I cared enough to waste it on you."

  7. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I wasn't filtered, I got the point. However, none of the insights were new to me, because it's fricking 2500 years old. I could pretend to be wowed by them for social credit, but I'm not a moron.

    You didn't read it, you deserve everything that happened to you.

  8. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's amazing how you can't not like Plato, you either think he's genius or you got "filtered." And get bombarded with, ironically mostly with that single word as a rebuttal to your criticisms (very un philosophical and Plato like.)

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      Because the moron in this thread thinks he's smarter than he is.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      You can dislike Plato (many of my favorite philosophers do), but to think that he offers no insights is just pure moronation. Plato is in that sweet spot of conceptually dense, yet conversational, descriptively rich, relevant, and, best of all, readable that philosophy rarely approaches.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Plato's readability varies a lot tbqh. Phaedrus and the two Hippiases (frick you they're authentic) are easily readable whereas Parmenides is an absolute slog.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          Hippias Minor isn’t only authentic but it’s pure Socrates because it depicts him “making the lesser argument seem better” and is more in line with what we know about the man than about the Forms and other silly stuff Plato attributes to him.

        • 9 months ago
          Anonymous

          >that parmenides pic
          based
          can i get an explanation for ion, critias, the republic and meno though?

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      Plato was most people's first serious study. They invested a lot of time into it and learned logical patterns that were new to them. Obviously they will overemphasize its importance and insight.
      The other anon in this thread is disillusioned with philosophy.
      I still suggest you read philosophy for 2 purposes: to stay informed and to stay mentally sharp. Just don't get carried away by it.

  9. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    It’s ancient Fascism. Plato wanted to kill all autistic children of old folks. He would’ve supported Aktion T4 and mass murder of innocents.

  10. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Filtered. While the basic arguments have gone on to shape more relevant works of political philosophy, there are important conclusions reached in this work that have yet to be written of in more sophisticated works such as

  11. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Heres the thing OP.
    Everyone here already said enough about you being filtered.

    Why we read Plato is not for an answers, Answers are boring.

    People who are not nitwits knows that you dont rate a Philosopher by the answers that he gives but the QUESTIONS he asked.

    And Plato, Ask. All. The Good ones.

    If you actually read the Republic you will realize that some of the most famous Philosopher later on in the west made their entire career by contemplating/trying to answer the questions that was pose in one of the books in the republic or even just a paragraph.

    Who's my least favorite Philosopher?
    >Plato
    Well, who's is your favorite then?
    >Plato

    Simple As

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >People who are not nitwits knows that you dont rate a Philosopher by the answers that he gives but the QUESTIONS he asked

      I would say that asking the right questions is just as much part of what makes up the value of a work of philosophy, just as much as the right answers, as well as the strength of the arguments. But I agree that those who appreciate a work only by its "positive content" will often miss out on much. And I think that this is especially true for ancient philosophy, and even more true for the philosophical dialogues of Plato, which are arguably written in the dialogue form and not in the form of e.g. a lecture, in order to present and confront the reader with troubling philosophical puzzles.

  12. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    I agree. Most of the insights you get from Plato are in the lesser read works. There's such a thing as trickle down knowledge. If a text is very important and widely read within your culture, most of the insights within the text would have already made it to you by way of accidental cultural transmission.

    Purists and other midwits will seethe upon hearing this, but it is true.

  13. 9 months ago
    VIRUSES DON'T EXIST

    plato is only fetish to make people feel worthless, to make them cattle.

  14. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Frick off sparknotes

  15. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    Your soul is made of bronze, you wouldn't get it.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous

      >second age has no aesthetics
      IMCOMPLETE IMAGE.

      • 9 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not sure why the guy who made the image didn't include that. Maybe he is not very familiar with medieval and early modern European history. The aesthetics is tightly bound to the attitude to war, however: the art tends to exalt the secular power and glory of the sovereign. The themes are heroic and lordly, but they are deprived of their more deeply spiritual connotations. Occasionally, you find symbolism in literature that refers to rather parochial themes, like denominational polemics.

        Not a Serrano appreciator, personally, but that is a good quote.

    • 9 months ago
      Anonymous
  16. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    >garbage in, garbage out

  17. 9 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's his worst doalogue

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