>or it was land that existed prior to the melting ice caps.
It could also have just been a lone glacier that was large enough for some people to think was a land mass and has since melted
it was the north atlantic moundbuilders, who used the packice to travel over to the Hatton-rockall plateau for pilgrimage and study of the skies. (they didn't have sea-worthy ships yet, so they relied on seasonal packice)
Plato made it up as an allegory. Noone is going around looking for the cave where people were chained up and could only see shadows passing on the wall, so why would they treat Atlantis as a real place?
It was literally made up by Plato in his dialogs and stated almost as such, "You Hellenes are such incredible Egyptophiles so here my uncle who works at Atthenai learned this from an Egyptian priest to get you to think about the conditions of the ideal Republic"
>made up by Plato in his dialogs and stated almost as such
Opposite of the case. He poses it as if it were a historical event. The problem is that Egyptians push back dates by millennia.
The Basques are probably their closest surviving relatives, if only because they speak a language with no relation to the Indo-Aryan root language, suggesting they descend from an earlier cycle of civilization.
Basque is sixteenth century. And no,I don't accept that one absurd forgery with a spectacular dating as proof.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Basque is sixteenth century
Source?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
How can we prove it goes back to the sixteenth century?
>mean, Plato was literally saying it's historical fact
Lol no he wasn't. In a fictional dialogue a character says he heard it from his grandfather who claimed he heard it from an Egyptian priest who claimed it was passed down for 9000 years by Egyptian priests. It's obviously presented as a tall tale used to illustrate a point about state organisation.
>Lol no he wasn't. In a fictional dialogue
Every single dialogue was real. He presents it as a matter of fact. He would not bother having explained where the story came from if it was fictional or some kind of thought experiment. It is not in any way presented as a tall tale, as you say. He repeatedly goes through effort to demonstrate that it was historical, at least according to the Egyptians.
Just like he poses that the cave where people are chained up and can only see shadows is a real place. So why aren't you out looking for that?
>Just like he poses that the cave where people are chained up and can only see shadows is a real place
You may actually be stupid. I mean that. 70 IQ tops. He says in the allegory "imagine a cave". Right out the gate he is saying it is imaginary. He literally, himself, calls it imaginary. Now contrast this with his recounting of where the Atlantis story is related and how.
https://i.imgur.com/WUhYj6R.jpeg
>NOOOO PLATO SAID IT WAS OVER 9000 STADIA BIG AND 9000 YEARS AGO THEREFORE IT WAS, IT IS 100% LITERAL TRUTH AND WE MUST SEARCH FOR SOMETHING THAT FITS IT EXACTLY NO MATTER HOW ABSURD
it's too deep
Not necessarily.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>He says in the allegory "imagine a cave"
Does he? What's the original Greek?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Picture men dwelling in a sort of subterranean cavern1 with a long entrance open2 to the light on its entire width. Conceive them as having their legs and necks fettered3 from childhood, so that they remain in the same spot, [514b] able to look forward only, and prevented by the fetters from turning their heads. Picture further the light from a fire burning higher up and at a distance behind them, and between the fire and the prisoners and above them a road along which a low wall has been built, as the exhibitors of puppet-shows4 have partitions before the men themselves, above which they show the puppets.” “All that I see,” he said.
Hit 'load' next to Greek on the right and check the Greek yourself.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>picture
That's quite different to "imagine"...
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
You fricking moron lmfao holy shit
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
You think picture and imagine mean the same thing? Are you ESL?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Go on moron, demonstrate the difference. Standing by with popcorn eager to see how you're going to jump through all of those flaming hoops.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You think picture and imagine mean the same thing?
new dude here.
aphantasia is a thing. many suffers.
this is why the phrase "picture this" and "imagine this" are used interchangeably among people with minds eye, whereas retar.... other people... tend to use "imagine".
It was literally made up by Plato in his dialogs and stated almost as such, "You Hellenes are such incredible Egyptophiles so here my uncle who works at Atthenai learned this from an Egyptian priest to get you to think about the conditions of the ideal Republic"
I always assumed if Atlantis was a real place it would be somewhere like santorini, an Island blown up by a volcano. But most likely its a literary device like all those places in the Odyssey.
The real question is why does this one off story from Plato become the obsession of so many.
Why Atlantis of all things though, there isn't a whole elaborate schitzo culture around the island of the cyclopses or whatever. Maybe every since that dude found troy tons of people were proposing where a 'real atlantis' would be.
the Atlanteans were originally from Mu.
the main capital of Atlantis was in the Bahamas (was one much bigger land mass back then). they had other colonies in the Atlantic ocean much closer to Europe.
The idea of these lost continents ever being real only became a thing after a bunch of fake "mystic" grifters started shilling it heavily, people like Helena Blavatsky and Grigori Gurdjieff. There was a whole wave of proto-new age movements back then to scam gullible rich people out of money, like the Rosecrucians, the Golden Dawn, the Theosophists etc
>lost continents ever being real only became a thing after a bunch of fake "mystic" grifters
I mean,Plato was literally saying it's historical fact. I'll have to look up the name but there was already a famous incident of a Greek island submerging. The rulers name was Is I think. Long story short, this isn't new and it's not motivated by profit.
>mean, Plato was literally saying it's historical fact
Lol no he wasn't. In a fictional dialogue a character says he heard it from his grandfather who claimed he heard it from an Egyptian priest who claimed it was passed down for 9000 years by Egyptian priests. It's obviously presented as a tall tale used to illustrate a point about state organisation.
11,600 years ago, Sundaland was inhabited by Dravidians, Australoids, and similar breeds of pre-agricultural ooga-booga. They certainly wouldn't have had the capacity to build a civilisation capable of sailing to Egypt and Greece.
>11,600 years ago, Sundaland was inhabited by Dravidians, Australoids, and similar breeds of pre-agricultural ooga-booga. They certainly wouldn't have had the capacity to build a civilisation capable of sailing to Egypt and Greece.
We keep pushing back the start of civilization further and further every year. It was long believed that the Indians in the Amazon rainforest were simple hunter-gathers but now we're finding out there was a very large population there doing all kinda extensive farming.
Sundaland would have been the perfect spot for an early civilization and its descendants could have simply walked out as the region was flooded buy rising sea levels but even more primitive humans much earlier managed to cross fairly large bodies of water and if you're sailing along the coast stopping every night to camp on the shore, (the now accepted theory for the migration to the Americas) then it would be quite easy to eventually get to Egypt.
>We keep pushing back the start of civilization further and further every year.
We don't, it is pretty much settled that civilization emerged after the end of the ice age when the climate stabilized allowing hunter gatherers to domesticate wild wheat, taro, maize, potatoes and so on in different parts of the world.
The presence of several huge river deltas is really interesting. Similarly to Doggerland, I wouldn't be surprised if people built settlements along the coast, and what's even more interesting is that Australian Aboriginal mythology talks about how the gods flooded their ancestral homeland and forced them to migrate southward.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>The presence of several huge river deltas is really interesting. Similarly to Doggerland,
Doggerland is a non-starter for a supposed early civilization, since at the time it was a freezing cold barren wasteland.
>I wouldn't be surprised if people built settlements along the coast,
All early human settlements were along river drainage basins, as that's the best place for hunting and gathering and later, for farming.
>and what's even more interesting is that Australian Aboriginal mythology talks about how the gods flooded their ancestral homeland and forced them to migrate southward.
Every culture has ancient myths of gigantic floods, which suggests the post-ice age rise in sea levels happened very quickly.
>NOOOO PLATO SAID IT WAS OVER 9000 STADIA BIG AND 9000 YEARS AGO THEREFORE IT WAS, IT IS 100% LITERAL TRUTH AND WE MUST SEARCH FOR SOMETHING THAT FITS IT EXACTLY NO MATTER HOW ABSURD
it's too deep
>late Pleistocene sea level data suggests that the ocean basins have responded isostatically, and by a significant amount, to the loading and unloading of water associated with Pleistocene glaciation
in layman's terms that means the water pushed down the thin sea floor near where the plates pull apart at the mid Atlantic ridge.
There was no glaciation that far south and virtually no glacial isostacy, which is a few mms a year at best.
Just out of interest, when did you first come across this theory? I don't mean when you decided "yes, it must be true", before you had done your own research and were uncertain about it.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
No, you didn't understand, it is the additional weight of the water from the melted ice which further depresses the plates, especially where they are thin near the rift boundary.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
those measurements are of movement in the areas where the massive ice caps were
because they aren't there any more
when they WERE there their enormous weight compressed the aesthenosphere and caused a bulge in the area around the depression
literally like pressing a stress ball between your hands
and when they vanished the bulge settled back down
Are you colourblind? The patch of "sunken land" you're referring to is over 200m below sea level, which means it's physically impossible for it to have ever been inhabited by humans - not even the ones who lived through the LGM.
>too deep
brace yourself for big words
[...] >late Pleistocene sea level data suggests that the ocean basins have responded isostatically, and by a significant amount, to the loading and unloading of water associated with Pleistocene glaciation
in layman's terms that means the water pushed down the thin sea floor near where the plates pull apart at the mid Atlantic ridge.
There's no way in hell tectonic plates could separate that fast, and I won't believe you until I see research papers on the topic of >le heckin' sunken continent that disappeared within the span of a few millennia
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
the paper is referenced in the graphic here
https://i.imgur.com/iRl5BnT.jpeg
original homeland of white people
and I included that reference for exactly that reason
In case you missed it, Plato made this idea up and had one of the people in his dialogs (an IRL Athenian noble) tell the story as "something everyone knew."
It was a depiction of a utopia (like a Democratic government) that ultimately collapses in on itself.
All this other shit got added to the story by medieval scholars, but modern dildos have no excuse - it's right there in the text you can read it for free
wow so it would have been really easy to post anything from Timaeus or Critias to support your asinine conspiracy theory about the medieval people inventing the story for no reason at all
>those measurements are of movement in the areas where the massive ice caps were >because they aren't there any more >when they WERE there their enormous weight compressed the aesthenosphere and caused a bulge in the area around the depression >literally like pressing a stress ball between your hands >and when they vanished the bulge settled back down
=
How can we prove it goes back to the sixteenth century?
[...] >Lol no he wasn't. In a fictional dialogue
Every single dialogue was real. He presents it as a matter of fact. He would not bother having explained where the story came from if it was fictional or some kind of thought experiment. It is not in any way presented as a tall tale, as you say. He repeatedly goes through effort to demonstrate that it was historical, at least according to the Egyptians.
[...] >Just like he poses that the cave where people are chained up and can only see shadows is a real place
You may actually be stupid. I mean that. 70 IQ tops. He says in the allegory "imagine a cave". Right out the gate he is saying it is imaginary. He literally, himself, calls it imaginary. Now contrast this with his recounting of where the Atlantis story is related and how.
Well here's a video, Where this guy talks a bit about atlantis. Like where it could be.
?si=FJ43Y6tkgDjKczFv
Also, In this previous episode, He tryna give proof of Atlantis actually happening.
?si=5MBev5RnZwBxBTGk
Go to the last sections of the vid for that.
You may find a lot of out of context content for you, But it is good.
These are for someone actually interested, curious and out for constructive criticism, Rather than blindly denying everything.
>It is a myth loosely based on Santorini which the Minoans used as the site of a palace
This, it was a massive shock when the whole place blew the frick up. Partly because of its strategic position (closer to the rest of the Cyclades), partly because it was the best place to live in the Minoan world (hot and cold running water, flushing toilets).
It never existed or it was land that existed prior to the melting ice caps.
>or it was land that existed prior to the melting ice caps.
It could also have just been a lone glacier that was large enough for some people to think was a land mass and has since melted
it was the north atlantic moundbuilders, who used the packice to travel over to the Hatton-rockall plateau for pilgrimage and study of the skies. (they didn't have sea-worthy ships yet, so they relied on seasonal packice)
Plato made it up as an allegory. Noone is going around looking for the cave where people were chained up and could only see shadows passing on the wall, so why would they treat Atlantis as a real place?
>allegory
>made up by Plato in his dialogs and stated almost as such
Opposite of the case. He poses it as if it were a historical event. The problem is that Egyptians push back dates by millennia.
Just like he poses that the cave where people are chained up and can only see shadows is a real place. So why aren't you out looking for that?
you
never actually read the timaeus and critias have you
still nto atlantis
Ancestral land of medbvlls, far away of pigmyborea and nordgroids
original homeland of white people
Turco-Iroquoian Empire
Only decent post in thread
doggerland... home...
Come home white woman.
Who are the modern day descendants of the ancient Doggers?
The Basques are probably their closest surviving relatives, if only because they speak a language with no relation to the Indo-Aryan root language, suggesting they descend from an earlier cycle of civilization.
Basque is sixteenth century. And no,I don't accept that one absurd forgery with a spectacular dating as proof.
>Basque is sixteenth century
Source?
How can we prove it goes back to the sixteenth century?
>Lol no he wasn't. In a fictional dialogue
Every single dialogue was real. He presents it as a matter of fact. He would not bother having explained where the story came from if it was fictional or some kind of thought experiment. It is not in any way presented as a tall tale, as you say. He repeatedly goes through effort to demonstrate that it was historical, at least according to the Egyptians.
>Just like he poses that the cave where people are chained up and can only see shadows is a real place
You may actually be stupid. I mean that. 70 IQ tops. He says in the allegory "imagine a cave". Right out the gate he is saying it is imaginary. He literally, himself, calls it imaginary. Now contrast this with his recounting of where the Atlantis story is related and how.
Not necessarily.
>He says in the allegory "imagine a cave"
Does he? What's the original Greek?
>Picture men dwelling in a sort of subterranean cavern1 with a long entrance open2 to the light on its entire width. Conceive them as having their legs and necks fettered3 from childhood, so that they remain in the same spot, [514b] able to look forward only, and prevented by the fetters from turning their heads. Picture further the light from a fire burning higher up and at a distance behind them, and between the fire and the prisoners and above them a road along which a low wall has been built, as the exhibitors of puppet-shows4 have partitions before the men themselves, above which they show the puppets.” “All that I see,” he said.
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0168%3Abook%3D7
Hit 'load' next to Greek on the right and check the Greek yourself.
>picture
That's quite different to "imagine"...
You fricking moron lmfao holy shit
You think picture and imagine mean the same thing? Are you ESL?
Go on moron, demonstrate the difference. Standing by with popcorn eager to see how you're going to jump through all of those flaming hoops.
>You think picture and imagine mean the same thing?
new dude here.
aphantasia is a thing. many suffers.
this is why the phrase "picture this" and "imagine this" are used interchangeably among people with minds eye, whereas retar.... other people... tend to use "imagine".
It was literally made up by Plato in his dialogs and stated almost as such, "You Hellenes are such incredible Egyptophiles so here my uncle who works at Atthenai learned this from an Egyptian priest to get you to think about the conditions of the ideal Republic"
I always assumed if Atlantis was a real place it would be somewhere like santorini, an Island blown up by a volcano. But most likely its a literary device like all those places in the Odyssey.
The real question is why does this one off story from Plato become the obsession of so many.
because it became popular and thus schizos and morons want to larp as being smart used it as a way to get attention
Why Atlantis of all things though, there isn't a whole elaborate schitzo culture around the island of the cyclopses or whatever. Maybe every since that dude found troy tons of people were proposing where a 'real atlantis' would be.
as stated before its more well known
Mu is better
the Atlanteans were originally from Mu.
the main capital of Atlantis was in the Bahamas (was one much bigger land mass back then). they had other colonies in the Atlantic ocean much closer to Europe.
The idea of these lost continents ever being real only became a thing after a bunch of fake "mystic" grifters started shilling it heavily, people like Helena Blavatsky and Grigori Gurdjieff. There was a whole wave of proto-new age movements back then to scam gullible rich people out of money, like the Rosecrucians, the Golden Dawn, the Theosophists etc
>lost continents ever being real only became a thing after a bunch of fake "mystic" grifters
I mean,Plato was literally saying it's historical fact. I'll have to look up the name but there was already a famous incident of a Greek island submerging. The rulers name was Is I think. Long story short, this isn't new and it's not motivated by profit.
>mean, Plato was literally saying it's historical fact
Lol no he wasn't. In a fictional dialogue a character says he heard it from his grandfather who claimed he heard it from an Egyptian priest who claimed it was passed down for 9000 years by Egyptian priests. It's obviously presented as a tall tale used to illustrate a point about state organisation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chryse_(island)#:~:text=Chryse%20%2F%CB%88kra%C9%AA,had%20sunk%20below%20the%20sea.
Let me guess: Pausanias was just telling a metaphor.
>Atlantis
11,600 years ago, Sundaland was inhabited by Dravidians, Australoids, and similar breeds of pre-agricultural ooga-booga. They certainly wouldn't have had the capacity to build a civilisation capable of sailing to Egypt and Greece.
>11,600 years ago, Sundaland was inhabited by Dravidians, Australoids, and similar breeds of pre-agricultural ooga-booga. They certainly wouldn't have had the capacity to build a civilisation capable of sailing to Egypt and Greece.
We keep pushing back the start of civilization further and further every year. It was long believed that the Indians in the Amazon rainforest were simple hunter-gathers but now we're finding out there was a very large population there doing all kinda extensive farming.
Sundaland would have been the perfect spot for an early civilization and its descendants could have simply walked out as the region was flooded buy rising sea levels but even more primitive humans much earlier managed to cross fairly large bodies of water and if you're sailing along the coast stopping every night to camp on the shore, (the now accepted theory for the migration to the Americas) then it would be quite easy to eventually get to Egypt.
>We keep pushing back the start of civilization further and further every year.
We don't, it is pretty much settled that civilization emerged after the end of the ice age when the climate stabilized allowing hunter gatherers to domesticate wild wheat, taro, maize, potatoes and so on in different parts of the world.
The presence of several huge river deltas is really interesting. Similarly to Doggerland, I wouldn't be surprised if people built settlements along the coast, and what's even more interesting is that Australian Aboriginal mythology talks about how the gods flooded their ancestral homeland and forced them to migrate southward.
>The presence of several huge river deltas is really interesting. Similarly to Doggerland,
Doggerland is a non-starter for a supposed early civilization, since at the time it was a freezing cold barren wasteland.
>I wouldn't be surprised if people built settlements along the coast,
All early human settlements were along river drainage basins, as that's the best place for hunting and gathering and later, for farming.
>and what's even more interesting is that Australian Aboriginal mythology talks about how the gods flooded their ancestral homeland and forced them to migrate southward.
Every culture has ancient myths of gigantic floods, which suggests the post-ice age rise in sea levels happened very quickly.
we really need you graham hancuck fanboys to leave so we can have serious discussion
Snoop Doggy Doggerland
Atlantis was real, but it was inhabited by Mesolithic tribes rather than an advanced civilization
it existed and is in exactly the spot and approximate shape as the map in the OP picture
>NOOOO PLATO SAID IT WAS OVER 9000 STADIA BIG AND 9000 YEARS AGO THEREFORE IT WAS, IT IS 100% LITERAL TRUTH AND WE MUST SEARCH FOR SOMETHING THAT FITS IT EXACTLY NO MATTER HOW ABSURD
it's too deep
>too deep
brace yourself for big words
>late Pleistocene sea level data suggests that the ocean basins have responded isostatically, and by a significant amount, to the loading and unloading of water associated with Pleistocene glaciation
in layman's terms that means the water pushed down the thin sea floor near where the plates pull apart at the mid Atlantic ridge.
There was no glaciation that far south and virtually no glacial isostacy, which is a few mms a year at best.
Just out of interest, when did you first come across this theory? I don't mean when you decided "yes, it must be true", before you had done your own research and were uncertain about it.
No, you didn't understand, it is the additional weight of the water from the melted ice which further depresses the plates, especially where they are thin near the rift boundary.
those measurements are of movement in the areas where the massive ice caps were
because they aren't there any more
when they WERE there their enormous weight compressed the aesthenosphere and caused a bulge in the area around the depression
literally like pressing a stress ball between your hands
and when they vanished the bulge settled back down
Are you colourblind? The patch of "sunken land" you're referring to is over 200m below sea level, which means it's physically impossible for it to have ever been inhabited by humans - not even the ones who lived through the LGM.
>too deep
responded here
There's no way in hell tectonic plates could separate that fast, and I won't believe you until I see research papers on the topic of
>le heckin' sunken continent that disappeared within the span of a few millennia
the paper is referenced in the graphic here
and I included that reference for exactly that reason
I find the sahara Atlantis the most believable theory.
Green sahara must have had tons of people living there and nobody's looking under the sand.
this hole in the ground on the african continent is interesting but it is not an island continent in the atlantic so it can not be atlantis
it is a red herring
>land locked
no
Why not?
cant have been wiped out in a flood if it is a land locked dry hole in the ground
It was home, at least it was before I fricked everything up...
In case you missed it, Plato made this idea up and had one of the people in his dialogs (an IRL Athenian noble) tell the story as "something everyone knew."
It was a depiction of a utopia (like a Democratic government) that ultimately collapses in on itself.
All this other shit got added to the story by medieval scholars, but modern dildos have no excuse - it's right there in the text you can read it for free
wow so it would have been really easy to post anything from Timaeus or Critias to support your asinine conspiracy theory about the medieval people inventing the story for no reason at all
you have no excuese
>those measurements are of movement in the areas where the massive ice caps were
>because they aren't there any more
>when they WERE there their enormous weight compressed the aesthenosphere and caused a bulge in the area around the depression
>literally like pressing a stress ball between your hands
>and when they vanished the bulge settled back down
=
Shit take. You've already been pre-empted.
Well here's a video, Where this guy talks a bit about atlantis. Like where it could be.
?si=FJ43Y6tkgDjKczFv
Also, In this previous episode, He tryna give proof of Atlantis actually happening.
?si=5MBev5RnZwBxBTGk
Go to the last sections of the vid for that.
You may find a lot of out of context content for you, But it is good.
These are for someone actually interested, curious and out for constructive criticism, Rather than blindly denying everything.
Well go on, split the difference. Explain how your translation sets the allegory up to be less explicit.
It was in Andalucía, Spain and it wasn't that great
The name Egyptians gave to Chalcolithic Iberian copper (Orichalcum) trading cities.
>From Atlantis to Aphantasia
Okay, who fed LLM the dictionary from back to front?
>It is a myth loosely based on Santorini which the Minoans used as the site of a palace
This, it was a massive shock when the whole place blew the frick up. Partly because of its strategic position (closer to the rest of the Cyclades), partly because it was the best place to live in the Minoan world (hot and cold running water, flushing toilets).
Hod did they get hot water?
Ironically, from the volcano.
the blue Blacks of the atlantic seas