if you're storing hundreds of terabytes it becomes more cost effective
>never in my LIFE have i had any lto drive fail because of your schizophrenic reasons. >invulnerable
learn2read Black person >$100 every few months on hard drives
that gets you 2-3 1 TB HDDs, which is comparable to the tape storage/price ratio
>$100 gets you 2-3 1TB HDDs
Maybe if you bought 1TB HDDs, but you would have to be moronic to do that
You can get new drives for less than $16/TB
The tapes themselves are dirt cheap it's the equipment that's expensive af, they're also pretty much invulnerable to shaking, dropping and acceleration (which can normally damage HDDs)
But the data R/W is painfully slow and you have to start reading from the beginning of the tape every time you want to have access to some data that's placed further away
Random RW is painfully slow but you should never be doing random RW on tape anyway.
Archive things in 100GB+ blocks and use it as long term vault storage. If you need something bad enough to get it from a temperature and humidity controlled room you'll be happy to transfer it at whatever speed you can.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>If you need something bad enough to get it from a temperature and humidity controlled room
you don't need that unless your drives are operating in a fricking furnace or a server farm.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You do if you want them to last the advertised 30 year lifespan. If you don't care about lifespan don't get into tape.
> knows nothing about tape > proceeds to write shit instead > dumb coon still thinks it's 1985 and we're still using audio cassettes
hilarious
The tapes themselves are dirt cheap it's the equipment that's expensive af, they're also pretty much invulnerable to shaking, dropping and acceleration (which can normally damage HDDs)
But the data R/W is painfully slow and you have to start reading from the beginning of the tape every time you want to have access to some data that's placed further away
>t's the equipment that's expensive af >brb spending $100 every few months on hard drives
lmao >they're also pretty much invulnerable to shaking, dropping and acceleration
never in my LIFE have i had any lto drive fail because of your schizophrenic reasons. > (which can normally damage HDDs)
this is the only thing you got right out of your entire paragraph of nonsense. surprised your coon brain didn't mention the nonsense about having to need a temperature controlled room but then i remember: that's right, i'm talking to coons that have no idea how a computer even functions.
>never in my LIFE have i had any lto drive fail because of your schizophrenic reasons. >invulnerable
learn2read Black person >$100 every few months on hard drives
that gets you 2-3 1 TB HDDs, which is comparable to the tape storage/price ratio
>never in my LIFE have i had any lto drive fail because of your schizophrenic reasons. >invulnerable
learn2read Black person >$100 every few months on hard drives
that gets you 2-3 1 TB HDDs, which is comparable to the tape storage/price ratio
Older gen tape systems aren't too expensive, but usually hook up via IO that isn't commonly available on consumer systems. You'll have to learn how that all works, plus get a hold of the software for using it. Can be a pain in the ass for modest storage amounts for the older gen LTO. I reckon you're better off either paying for cloud storage, or buying HDDs, backing up to them and send them offsite somewhere. Can also burn more critical files to blu-ray and store them away from light and oxygen.
Tape drives and tapes are a money and time sink. Example; Current server has capacity of 60TB. For me to backup to tape I'd have to buy a tape drive, buy the tapes and then use my desktop computer as the host due to my server not having the bays/support for said tape drive. Cost me out the ass. Tie up my desktop. V.S building another server (or servers). Use built in server backup tools. It runs automatically. I do other things, my desktop is freed up. Cost is less. Life is good. (Servers use ZFS/ECC/Raid Z, and UPS). My data will outlast me barring a house fire. Which if said event happened I'd have more important things to worry about than data loss.
Only really worth it if you get a full tape library and have a shitload of data. Speaking from experience, using LTO prior to 5 is shit, your only way of checking what’s actually on the tape is using records, so you have to chunk your tar archives in advance to make them navigable. tar itself is still works pretty well for tape archiving though, with a few tweaks.
Prior to LTO5 there was no good way to store a list of what was on the tape except for writing on the label with a sharpie. Even with LTO5, if you have more than like 3 tapes worth of data you’ll need to figure out a labelling system and storage method to keep the tapes organised, unless you want to spend an entire day looking for the right tape when you actually need it. For this reason almost all enterprise use is done with tape libraries that automate all this shit and have software that makes it less tedious.
A full tape library is bulky and exceedingly expensive, but is also mostly plug and play. For long term storage the concern would be compatibility. LTO drives maintain I think 3 generations of compatibility, and then you need to either hope like frick you always have access to an old enough drive, or keep migrating all your storage when needed.
Buying drives second hand is a bit of a crapshoot, and they’re still very expensive. And getting firmware updates for them if you aren’t the original owner is difficult as well.
In short, unless you’re actually archiving a lot of shit you have no intention of needing again soon, really want to do fully cold backups you can store in a vault or someshit, or just want the autism cred of running a tape drive, they really aren’t worth it for most use cases. They have absurd storage density for price, but the initial investment is massive, and most people will never even fill a single tape, given LTO8 stores 12TB without compression, and 30TB with.
In short, not worth it unless you’re rich and highly autistic. It’s not practical, but it is cool.
real M Discs aren't being made anymore. The nu"Verbatim" produces "M-Disc" that aren't made like the old M-Disc, doesn't use the same coatings or materials, just the branding and name. If you find a stack of old Verbatim M-Disc DVD or Bluray, those are still good to go.
Those are even worse. 100GB tops. You'll die from boredom playing the "disc swap game" if you have say 60TB or more. Plus keeping all that shit organized would suck to.
I wonder if it would be feasible to add an automated disk switching mechanism.
Like you feed it a spindle of 100 disks and it just writes to them in sequence - ideally you would never take the disks of the spindle.
What alternative are there even to external HDD's?
I back up some data on USB drives, some more on an external hard drive, I keep most important data on my main pc too. I still feel like USB drives are too unreliable, HDD's can fail at any point and my main PC has full disk encryption so the data can be gone from one day to the next.
I would like to use DVDs or something where I just write and forget but they're apparently bad for backing up data. MDISC is fricking expensive.
This is what I did; 2 N40L microservers from e-bay for $100 each. Came complete minus the drives and os. I tossed in some drives and a copy of freenas booting from a usb stick. (4GB ram is plenty if you use old version). Stuffed 5x 3.5 HDD in a raidz1. These act as strictly backup dumps. Nothing else. They stay offline till time to do a backup job. Total footprint is very small. Stacked they're about the size of a typical mid tower. My main server also uses ZFS and it's storage is raid-z2.. Freenas - Don't give a damn what version you run, long as it has rsync and does smart tests/drive scrubbing, your golden. You don't need plugins or other shit for this project. You don't need it to be internet enabled either. Via RSync you can transfer data from modern Truenas Scale/Truenas system to old system no problem. (Replication is a no go due to replication engine changes done over the years). Backup dump boxes run Freenas 8.3, yes 8.3. Hey it works. Could upgrade them to least 11x but no point. They work fine as is.
External HDDs and USB drives, while commonly used, can be prone to reliability issues. You mentioned concerns about the reliability of USB drives and the potential for HDD failures. One option you might consider is tape storage. Tape drives offer large capacities and robust reliability, suitable for long-term archival. LTO (Linear Tape-Open) technology, for example, has multiple generations, each offering increased storage capacity and faster data transfer rates.
Another alternative is using write-once Blu-ray discs. These discs provide a reliable offline storage option with high data capacity and resistance to physical damage and magnetic fields. They can be a cost-effective solution for long-term archival of important data.
DVD-RAM (Digital Versatile Disc - Random Access Memory) is another technology worth considering. Known for its robustness and longevity, DVD-RAM offers random access capabilities, allowing for easy file management and retrieval. It's suitable for regular backups and archival storage.
RDX (Removable Disk Storage) is a backup solution that combines the portability of external HDDs with the durability of tape storage. RDX drives use ruggedized cartridges that offer shock resistance and data protection, ideal for offsite backups and disaster recovery.
Additionally, WORM (Write Once, Read Many) Hard Drives are conventional HDDs with WORM functionality, allowing data to be written only once and then read multiple times. This ensures data integrity and prevents accidental deletion or modification, making them suitable for compliance-driven environments and secure archival storage.
In summary, tape storage, write-once Blu-ray discs, DVD-RAM, RDX Removable Disk Storage, and WORM Hard Drives are five viable alternatives to external HDDs and USB drives for offline backup needs. Each option has its pros and cons, so consider your budget, storage requirements, and long-term reliability when making your decision.
ChatGPT sludge, what fricking non-enterprise use case is there for WORM, and recommending fricking DVD-RAM in current era. RDX is literally just hard-drives in a case.
Swapping tapes or blu-rays would be bad enough, but DVDs?
>not consumer grade (both in terms of price and availability)
>slow
>takes up a lot of physical space
not for personal everyday use, but for archiving and datahoarding is there any benefit to HDDs?
is there any benefit to tape storage over HDDs*
Less parts to fail. HDD have circuit boards and read heads that can fail.
if you're storing hundreds of terabytes it becomes more cost effective
>$100 gets you 2-3 1TB HDDs
Maybe if you bought 1TB HDDs, but you would have to be moronic to do that
You can get new drives for less than $16/TB
The tapes themselves are dirt cheap it's the equipment that's expensive af, they're also pretty much invulnerable to shaking, dropping and acceleration (which can normally damage HDDs)
But the data R/W is painfully slow and you have to start reading from the beginning of the tape every time you want to have access to some data that's placed further away
Random RW is painfully slow but you should never be doing random RW on tape anyway.
Archive things in 100GB+ blocks and use it as long term vault storage. If you need something bad enough to get it from a temperature and humidity controlled room you'll be happy to transfer it at whatever speed you can.
>If you need something bad enough to get it from a temperature and humidity controlled room
you don't need that unless your drives are operating in a fricking furnace or a server farm.
You do if you want them to last the advertised 30 year lifespan. If you don't care about lifespan don't get into tape.
> knows nothing about tape
> proceeds to write shit instead
> dumb coon still thinks it's 1985 and we're still using audio cassettes
hilarious
>t's the equipment that's expensive af
>brb spending $100 every few months on hard drives
lmao
>they're also pretty much invulnerable to shaking, dropping and acceleration
never in my LIFE have i had any lto drive fail because of your schizophrenic reasons.
> (which can normally damage HDDs)
this is the only thing you got right out of your entire paragraph of nonsense. surprised your coon brain didn't mention the nonsense about having to need a temperature controlled room but then i remember: that's right, i'm talking to coons that have no idea how a computer even functions.
>never in my LIFE have i had any lto drive fail because of your schizophrenic reasons.
>invulnerable
learn2read Black person
>$100 every few months on hard drives
that gets you 2-3 1 TB HDDs, which is comparable to the tape storage/price ratio
and a decent LTO drive is $2k - $3k itself
LTO 5 is under 1000€ but they are quite error prone.
TF is modern tape storage
Older gen tape systems aren't too expensive, but usually hook up via IO that isn't commonly available on consumer systems. You'll have to learn how that all works, plus get a hold of the software for using it. Can be a pain in the ass for modest storage amounts for the older gen LTO. I reckon you're better off either paying for cloud storage, or buying HDDs, backing up to them and send them offsite somewhere. Can also burn more critical files to blu-ray and store them away from light and oxygen.
Literally no benefit over HDDs. Same price ratio per TB and more expensive equipment, slower access time. Don't fall for the meme
Tape drives and tapes are a money and time sink. Example; Current server has capacity of 60TB. For me to backup to tape I'd have to buy a tape drive, buy the tapes and then use my desktop computer as the host due to my server not having the bays/support for said tape drive. Cost me out the ass. Tie up my desktop. V.S building another server (or servers). Use built in server backup tools. It runs automatically. I do other things, my desktop is freed up. Cost is less. Life is good. (Servers use ZFS/ECC/Raid Z, and UPS). My data will outlast me barring a house fire. Which if said event happened I'd have more important things to worry about than data loss.
No.
It works well
>muh 20 degrees
>muh humidity
Memes. 10 year old tapes working after being in the basement
TL;DR: We're going back home.
dunno about benefits, but you god admit it's pretty fricking cool. like taking out some modern scrolls
Only really worth it if you get a full tape library and have a shitload of data. Speaking from experience, using LTO prior to 5 is shit, your only way of checking what’s actually on the tape is using records, so you have to chunk your tar archives in advance to make them navigable. tar itself is still works pretty well for tape archiving though, with a few tweaks.
Prior to LTO5 there was no good way to store a list of what was on the tape except for writing on the label with a sharpie. Even with LTO5, if you have more than like 3 tapes worth of data you’ll need to figure out a labelling system and storage method to keep the tapes organised, unless you want to spend an entire day looking for the right tape when you actually need it. For this reason almost all enterprise use is done with tape libraries that automate all this shit and have software that makes it less tedious.
A full tape library is bulky and exceedingly expensive, but is also mostly plug and play. For long term storage the concern would be compatibility. LTO drives maintain I think 3 generations of compatibility, and then you need to either hope like frick you always have access to an old enough drive, or keep migrating all your storage when needed.
Buying drives second hand is a bit of a crapshoot, and they’re still very expensive. And getting firmware updates for them if you aren’t the original owner is difficult as well.
In short, unless you’re actually archiving a lot of shit you have no intention of needing again soon, really want to do fully cold backups you can store in a vault or someshit, or just want the autism cred of running a tape drive, they really aren’t worth it for most use cases. They have absurd storage density for price, but the initial investment is massive, and most people will never even fill a single tape, given LTO8 stores 12TB without compression, and 30TB with.
In short, not worth it unless you’re rich and highly autistic. It’s not practical, but it is cool.
NOW, redpill me on modern optical discs
real M Discs aren't being made anymore. The nu"Verbatim" produces "M-Disc" that aren't made like the old M-Disc, doesn't use the same coatings or materials, just the branding and name. If you find a stack of old Verbatim M-Disc DVD or Bluray, those are still good to go.
Those are even worse. 100GB tops. You'll die from boredom playing the "disc swap game" if you have say 60TB or more. Plus keeping all that shit organized would suck to.
I wonder if it would be feasible to add an automated disk switching mechanism.
Like you feed it a spindle of 100 disks and it just writes to them in sequence - ideally you would never take the disks of the spindle.
What alternative are there even to external HDD's?
I back up some data on USB drives, some more on an external hard drive, I keep most important data on my main pc too. I still feel like USB drives are too unreliable, HDD's can fail at any point and my main PC has full disk encryption so the data can be gone from one day to the next.
I would like to use DVDs or something where I just write and forget but they're apparently bad for backing up data. MDISC is fricking expensive.
RAID 4 arrays can survive 1 dead drive, RAID 6 can survive 2 dead drives without losing any data.
The solution for the average person is a backup service or just more HDDs
Having 3 backups of your data puts you ahead of like 99% of people
This is what I did; 2 N40L microservers from e-bay for $100 each. Came complete minus the drives and os. I tossed in some drives and a copy of freenas booting from a usb stick. (4GB ram is plenty if you use old version). Stuffed 5x 3.5 HDD in a raidz1. These act as strictly backup dumps. Nothing else. They stay offline till time to do a backup job. Total footprint is very small. Stacked they're about the size of a typical mid tower. My main server also uses ZFS and it's storage is raid-z2.. Freenas - Don't give a damn what version you run, long as it has rsync and does smart tests/drive scrubbing, your golden. You don't need plugins or other shit for this project. You don't need it to be internet enabled either. Via RSync you can transfer data from modern Truenas Scale/Truenas system to old system no problem. (Replication is a no go due to replication engine changes done over the years). Backup dump boxes run Freenas 8.3, yes 8.3. Hey it works. Could upgrade them to least 11x but no point. They work fine as is.
External HDDs and USB drives, while commonly used, can be prone to reliability issues. You mentioned concerns about the reliability of USB drives and the potential for HDD failures. One option you might consider is tape storage. Tape drives offer large capacities and robust reliability, suitable for long-term archival. LTO (Linear Tape-Open) technology, for example, has multiple generations, each offering increased storage capacity and faster data transfer rates.
Another alternative is using write-once Blu-ray discs. These discs provide a reliable offline storage option with high data capacity and resistance to physical damage and magnetic fields. They can be a cost-effective solution for long-term archival of important data.
DVD-RAM (Digital Versatile Disc - Random Access Memory) is another technology worth considering. Known for its robustness and longevity, DVD-RAM offers random access capabilities, allowing for easy file management and retrieval. It's suitable for regular backups and archival storage.
RDX (Removable Disk Storage) is a backup solution that combines the portability of external HDDs with the durability of tape storage. RDX drives use ruggedized cartridges that offer shock resistance and data protection, ideal for offsite backups and disaster recovery.
Additionally, WORM (Write Once, Read Many) Hard Drives are conventional HDDs with WORM functionality, allowing data to be written only once and then read multiple times. This ensures data integrity and prevents accidental deletion or modification, making them suitable for compliance-driven environments and secure archival storage.
In summary, tape storage, write-once Blu-ray discs, DVD-RAM, RDX Removable Disk Storage, and WORM Hard Drives are five viable alternatives to external HDDs and USB drives for offline backup needs. Each option has its pros and cons, so consider your budget, storage requirements, and long-term reliability when making your decision.
ChatGPT sludge, what fricking non-enterprise use case is there for WORM, and recommending fricking DVD-RAM in current era. RDX is literally just hard-drives in a case.
Swapping tapes or blu-rays would be bad enough, but DVDs?
>-$0.03