Rust doesn't offer anything over C++ with smart pointers, move semantics and the automatic and safe memory management that they provide.

Rust doesn't offer anything over C++ with smart pointers, move semantics and the automatic and safe memory management that they provide.
>change my mind

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >smart pointers
    >safe memory management
    lmfao

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Rust is fricking ugly and stupid on so many levels.
    Hype coders probably already switched for the 10000000000 time, troons love it because it's holding their hands,jeets like it more than python which is understandable, but not a single seasoned dev would ever use this peace of castrated shit.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      C++ is uglier

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      C++ is uglier

      lookism is midwit ideology, syntax isn't important, languages should be only evaluated on merit

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Cope

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      > hand holding
      A year away from IQfy and I see people still have never used the thing they complain about.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Rust code is actually ugly as frick.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    C++ has shitty tooling. Cargo is nice, and rusts more restrictive syntax makes it easier to use smart ide features like autocomplete.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >automatically updated includes
      Terrible idea
      Who's idea was that
      It's like using AUR for kernel and drivers without reqding PKGBUILD.
      As I said, rust devs are as stupid as the language itself.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        cargo dependencies are not automatically updated

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          it's one command to update all of them, no built in support to see changes, you just have to assume that it's not a backdoored patch, you will still waste time checking things if you care about security, by that point you may aswell audit and manually include each of them separately

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Were package managers that promote keeping the source code of dependencies outside version control and without reviews and just blindingly trusting that a new version doesn't include a security risk a mistake?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            yes they were, remember that xz-utils was nothingburger in the end, but on something like cargo it may have ended badly for a lot of people

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            do cppcels know that there's dozens of undiscovered xz-utils tier exploits active right now letting chinks frick opensorescels in the ass?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            If you can't prove that you're a mossad agent right now, shut up.

            what even is your point?

            The point is they will do same thing C devs did for 50+ years, all these gay managers are just for webshit garbage that does not matter

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            better than some random build script made 15 years ago that nobody knows what it does

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            non sequitur

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >implying companies update their dependencies

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >implying companies will use cargo and pull code directly from crates.io

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            what even is your point?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Rust has Cargo
      C++ gets out of my way and lets me use portage. Shut the frick up midwit.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        C++ move semantics are a footgun if you use them wrong. Rust makes it a compiler error if you use a value after moving. The real benefit for Rust over C++ is Cargo, however.

        Portage is not available for every platform which your users might build their program on. Do you want to include library installation instructions for every Linux distro, plus Windows and MacOS? Or would you rather let them run a single command and let the build script handle the problem for you?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I am not responsible for your moronation.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >The real benefit for Rust over C++ is Cargo, however.
          I hear that. I'm getting convinced that rust is offering a real improvement over c and c++. It's weird how no one in all these years made a pip, go get, cargo, or even npn or mvn like package management system for c++ and how building c and c++ boils down to custom makefiles or even worse custom abstractions over makefiles that are platform specific (and most often incompatible even within variants of the same platform) and still really a lot on dynamic linking (frick that) or, even worse, the gate keepers of Linux distros.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            because C and C++ have no authority for that, there's boomer comittee that only determines standard, then people go and do whatever they want independently

            And that's a good thing, frick your pip, go get, cargo and npm malware full of backdoors and supply chain attacks.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >And that's a good thing, frick your pip, go get, cargo and npm malware full of backdoors and supply chain attacks
            I hear that too but don't act like c and c++ don't have supply chain attacks. Xz happened a few days ago and surely more like that are around since everyone is doing whatever the frick they want with custom unreviewable stuff.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            xz dev had to bother debian devs to include it, now think about what I have to do to release malware on cargo, that's right, nothing, I can just create account anonymously, then start pushing, absolutely noone reviews my code before it shows up on crates.io and people can download it, I could pwn tens of thousands of people before anyone reported it and it was taken down if I was author of popular rust library then one day nuked my repo and replaced it with malware and pushed it with genuine looking patch notes

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            vcpkg with manifests and exports is kind of ok. it sucks that you have to rebuild everytime but again, with exports it's not really that bad as you can just build once and keep the export.

            now that I think about it, I've never really used Conan (doesn't provide the package I want). is it better? why is it worse than cargo let's say?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            there's probably nothing wrong with it, it's just not as popular because there's no father figure telling every baseddev to use it religiously and nothing else

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >why is it worse than cargo let's say?
            I don't know. I made this thread to find viable alternatives to rust because I dislike the syntax and the mentality behind rust (rewrite everything, muh safety) and honestly I would like a language that won't promote leftpad() madness (I feel like cargo will have an attack like that soon) but I also want to avoid dynamic linking and makefile or cmake madness.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            But honestly I think I will just deal with cargo to avoid cmake, null pointer exceptions and 100 line error messages for a simple typo.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            just use meson or make directly if you don't like cmake
            >imagine if you were forced to use one of those and not any other

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            lack of "just import it through global package manager bro" support is what prevents leftpad mentality in C and C++

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            there's probably nothing wrong with it, it's just not as popular because there's no father figure telling every baseddev to use it religiously and nothing else

            I have used Conan recently, and while it's better than nothing, or doing VC through submodules, it's still more of a PITA than it should be.
            >all the docs tell you EYH THIS IS OUTDATED, PLEASE USE CONAN 2.0
            >switch to Conan 2.0, try to install stuff
            >"Sorry this recipe hasn't been ported to 2.0"
            Mostly the problem Conan faces is that there isn't a standard way to organize a C++ package, so recipe writers have a lot of work to do for every recipe.
            Same thing with CPM. It's very lightweight and the concept is cool, but if you try to include Apache Arrow for example, you face the problem that Arrow isn't compatible with CMake's FetchContent, because they used a bunch of reserved CMake variable names that leak everywhere and frick up the ExternalProject build.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >>all the docs tell you EYH THIS IS OUTDATED, PLEASE USE CONAN 2.0
            jej they NEVER learn
            At this point all I can say is Install gentoo
            >what if other distro user needs it?
            dunno, package it in flatpak or something, they love bloat

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >At this point all I can say is Install gentoo
            Great, so you replaced a language provided package manager with a distro provided package manager and added some new gatekeepers that add their own patches. I'm not saying you are wrong though, the status of programming in 2024 is a huge mess without any chance of improvement because no solution or even suggestion exists.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >serious answer to suggestion to install gentoo
            just how fricking new are you?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            As this fine anon

            language package managers exist only because distro maintainers and users are moronic, ebuilds are easy to write by the way, I
            >inherit meson
            setup
            >DESCRIPTION
            >HOMEPAGE
            >SRC_URI
            >DEPEND
            >RDEPEND
            and that's end of file because actual process to building meson packages is scripted already and it only gets complicated if you want to add use flags for every feature
            [...]
            >muh gentoo is just meme guise, it's not the best distro or anything!
            have a nice day zoomer

            just said gentoo (actually bsd port inspired system) is perhaps the only thing that could bring order to the chaos of programming in 2024. Unfortunately binary-first anti-compiler distros like red hat and debian "won" (the tragedy of not having build essential and gcc in the default install or more regrettably splitting binary packages in run dependencies and dev packages can not be understated) and Gentoo got associated with -O3 -funrollloops ricers but now I'm starting to reconsider and maybe this was an orchestrated plan and false flag attack to destroy Free software and computer science from within.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            gentoo caved and started supporting binpkgs for every package almost since last year by the way, there's very little arguments against gentoo other than "I'm a dum consumer and want it to work like windows".

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm a dum consumer and want it to work like windows
            There is nothing wrong with this in principle but GNU/Linux distros shouldn't have caved in and tried to be like windows, meaning wasting years promoting
            >binary installations are good (tm)
            >compiling from source is BAD
            >NO WE MEAN IT DON'T COMPILE FROM SOURCE USE OUR BINARY PACKAGES CVCK
            >dev headers/sources and build tools should not be installed by default, enjoy using an """open source""" system where you don't have the tools to build everything you use installed by default and it's often more difficult to build, install and use open source libraries from the latest development commit than a windows dev could do on visual studio with minimum fuss
            >THE TERMINAL IS BAAAAAD WE SHOULD TRAIN USERS TO BE AFRAID OF THE TERMINAL AND THE MAKE COMMAND BECAUSE MICROSOFT WINDOWS USERS DON'T COMPILE FROM SOURCE
            And here we are now, Linux is almost as bad as Windows, it's a huge bloated inauditable mess of systemd and xz backports and the whole thing is such a shithole we had to extend chroot into containers (which in turn promoted even more the idea of binary distribution and NEVER LOOKING AT THE SOURCE OR BUILDING FROM SCRATCH) just to sidestep the crap in modern Linux.

            I'm stopping, this thread is depressing, it's so over.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            language package managers exist only because distro maintainers and users are moronic, ebuilds are easy to write by the way, I
            >inherit meson
            setup
            >DESCRIPTION
            >HOMEPAGE
            >SRC_URI
            >DEPEND
            >RDEPEND
            and that's end of file because actual process to building meson packages is scripted already and it only gets complicated if you want to add use flags for every feature

            >serious answer to suggestion to install gentoo
            just how fricking new are you?

            >muh gentoo is just meme guise, it's not the best distro or anything!
            have a nice day zoomer

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I think you might have an assburger's

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            ah then I'm glad to use vcpkg. it's super minimalist, I often just use it as an easy way to get the headers I need. I guess recipes can get outdated but it's all just cmake and you can overlay any ports if you want to.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            (and by that I mean, get the headers without actually using vcpkg for my project)

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Didn't try vcpkg. Tbh when I tried Conan I was trying to do non-trivial stuff (compile with a recent GCC on an old debian) and it gets kinda complex.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >C++ has shitty tooling.
      >Cargo is nice, and
      >rusts more restrictive syntax makes it easier to use smart ide features like autocomplete
      Nice, that's some nice arguments although they are basically the same: "C/C++ tooling sucks".

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    C++'s move semantics leave the value in an unspecified state, but still usable, so undefined behavior if you use it afterwards. Rust's move semantics can either leave it inaccessible which is faster and less error prone, or in a well defined state (using std::mem::take) which is like C++'s move but without the undefined behavior if you use the value afterwards.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      it's not undefined behavior to use value after you moved it, if it is, your code is shit and you should have a nice day. You can move std::vector then push more elements into it, it will allocate a new buffer, because now it's a new vector.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >it's not undefined behavior to use value after you moved it
        anon please

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          In C++, move is not some magic troony thing, it's just a special optimized copy that copies contents from one lvalue to another as efficiently as possible. std::vector move is literally copying size, capacity and pointer to data into another vector, then resetting it to 0 from the vector that was moved from. You don't understand how C++ works, shut the frick up rustroony.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >because now it's a new vector
        Not necessarily. The compiler may give you a new vector, but it doesn't have to because move leaves it in an unspecified state.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          there's no actual "new" vector, it simply never disappeared

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          also it's unspecified because it would be moronic to force anything, you ignore that it must be valid. For example std::vector will have its constructor run when it goes out of scope, how do you imagine a destructor will work unless its data is nullptr, and capacity/size is 0? If it wasn't set to that, it would be UB for destructor to run.

          And this is not an assumption, that's how it was designed to work, it is valid, therefore it's safe and not UB to call any function that has no preconditions, for example push_back to moved from vector is never UB.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I should know better than to reply to utter morons larping as C++ knowers but
      >Move is undefined behavior

      Type(Type&& other) {
      >Be me
      >Defining behavior
      }

      I eagerly await your brain damaged, delusional reply.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        not him, but that's not what he meant by it

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          There is nothing else that he could've meant.
          Anything and everything related to the behavior of a move operation can be DEFINED inside a move constructor or operator=.
          It's not magic, it's just a function.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            he clearly wrote
            >after

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The state of the moved object after the move operation is entirely defined by the behavior of the move constructor.
            If only you C++ experts could do 30 seconds of research before larping, but I understand it's a high bar.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I never wrote that he wasn't wrong. Already explained how it works ITT, noone read it btw.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Well then I apologize for lashing out at you when you're not the target of my anger.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >for example push_back to moved from vector is never UB.
    I really should've written
    >for example push_back on std::vector is never UB
    If it was UB at any point, it's because vector is invalid state and STL has a bug that needs to be patched.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Cargo is pretty nice. I hate all the make, cmake, whatever the frick make that C/C++ has

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Also, actually, pkg-config is basically standard thing for C and C++ libraries, just everyone is afraid to talk about it for some reason.
    you can call pkg-config binary from Makefile
    you can import .pc files in meson and cmake and many other build systems
    any of these can generate .pc files to be used the same way for libraries that you build, it all just works, it just doesn't have mechanism to hurr durr pull in everything at once

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    If C++ was salvageable Java, Go, Rust would never have happened. There is place for C and C++, kernels, interpreters, compilers, places where you make everything from scratch, but for higher level applications use Java, Go, Zig, Rust.or one of the dynamic interpreted languages.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      midwit take, people create new languages everyday just because it's cool or something, some just happen to stick

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Languages stick only if they solve problems people have

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          all languages are tools for solving problems, I almost forgot to mention that people create DSL's frequently too, and they do solve problems.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Languages stick only if they solve problems people have
          The problem C solves:
          >code is too reliable and doesn't have enough buffer overflows

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            problems that C solves were solved before you were born, zoomer, now it's just legacy, and fizzbuzzer larping

            I think you might have an assburger's

            yes, and?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >problems that C solves were solved before you were born, zoomer, now it's just legacy, and fizzbuzzer larping
            They were solved before C was born. C unsolved the problems.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            you don't know anything about software and it shows

            >I'm a dum consumer and want it to work like windows
            There is nothing wrong with this in principle but GNU/Linux distros shouldn't have caved in and tried to be like windows, meaning wasting years promoting
            >binary installations are good (tm)
            >compiling from source is BAD
            >NO WE MEAN IT DON'T COMPILE FROM SOURCE USE OUR BINARY PACKAGES CVCK
            >dev headers/sources and build tools should not be installed by default, enjoy using an """open source""" system where you don't have the tools to build everything you use installed by default and it's often more difficult to build, install and use open source libraries from the latest development commit than a windows dev could do on visual studio with minimum fuss
            >THE TERMINAL IS BAAAAAD WE SHOULD TRAIN USERS TO BE AFRAID OF THE TERMINAL AND THE MAKE COMMAND BECAUSE MICROSOFT WINDOWS USERS DON'T COMPILE FROM SOURCE
            And here we are now, Linux is almost as bad as Windows, it's a huge bloated inauditable mess of systemd and xz backports and the whole thing is such a shithole we had to extend chroot into containers (which in turn promoted even more the idea of binary distribution and NEVER LOOKING AT THE SOURCE OR BUILDING FROM SCRATCH) just to sidestep the crap in modern Linux.

            I'm stopping, this thread is depressing, it's so over.

            projects like systemd and wayland and companies behind them were always going to make their own personal windows competitor with Linux kernel.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >C unsolved the problems.
            >humanity went to the moon before C and EUNICS and with with copper wire weaved programs that didn't crash and had advanced features like virtual machines, self healing, asynchronous non blocking programming and advanced io that modern programmers often only dream
            >then C happened and more than have a century later we have null pointer exceptions, segmentation faults and backdoors in 2024
            How deep does the rabbit hole go?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >computers never crashed before c
            The absolute state of the trans mind. Also: before C there was nothing like your baby high level Python/Java nor Rust. You wouldn't be capable of working in what they had available to them.
            >languages lower level than c
            >often have to work in assembler
            >punch cards
            >teletype machine printouts
            >white men planning every last detail before entering the code because punch cards suck and take a team to prepare >basically the ultimate racist patriarchy waterfall development team
            That last point, btw, is why really robust code was really robust. They didn't accept "coders" wearing thigh high socks. They didn't have agile or scrum masters or codes of conduct.

            Trigger warning: picrel can give trannies nightmares.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >before C there was nothing like your baby high level Python/Java nor Rust.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >so you claim to be a woman? and you have special pronouns? yes...could you wait a minute while i make a phone call?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >The absolute state of the trans mind.
            See

            >troony thread (trannies making threads LARPing as /C/hads to incite controversy and drama).
            "/C/hads" have always been trannies. All C threads are troony threads.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Horton
            >Mary Ann Horton (born Mark R. Horton, on November 21, 1955), is a Usenet and Internet pioneer. Horton contributed to Berkeley UNIX (BSD), including the vi editor and terminfo database,[1][2] created the first email binary attachment tool uuencode, and led the growth of Usenet in the 1980s.[3]
            >In 1981, Horton became a Member of Technical Staff of Bell Labs in Columbus, Ohio. At Bell Labs she brought parts of Berkeley UNIX to UNIX System V, including vi and curses; as part of the work on curses, she developed terminfo as a replacement for termcap (most of this work shipped as part of SVR2).[7] In 1987 she joined the Bell Labs Computation Center to bring official support for Usenet and Email to Bell Labs.
            >Horton's 1990 book, Portable C Software[18] became a popular reference for programming in C.[citation needed] It outlined functions and programming techniques that could be reliably used on many different types of computer systems, and which methods were unportable.
            >Horton is a transgender woman. Adopting the name Mary Ann in 1987, Horton founded Columbus' first transgender support group, the Crystal Club,[20] in 1989. In 1997, she joined EQUAL,[21] Lucent's LGBT employee resource group, and saw the value of being "out" at work, supported by an Equal Opportunity (EO) nondiscrimination policy. At the time, no major company included transgender language in their EO policy. Horton asked for its inclusion in Lucent's policy, and recommended the language "gender identity, characteristics, or expression". As a result, Lucent became the first large company to add transgender-inclusive language to its EO policy in 1997.[4]

            >Also: before C there was nothing like your baby high level Python/Java nor Rust.
            Lisp, APL, BASIC, SNOBOL, PL/I, Prolog, Simula 67, Algol 68, and Smalltalk 71 are all older than C.

            >You wouldn't be capable of working in what they had available to them.
            It's easier to write secure code in assembly than it is in C.

            men planning every last detail before entering the code because punch cards suck and take a team to prepare >basically the ultimate racist patriarchy waterfall development team
            Which is literally the opposite of how Unix and C were developed. This is the biggest thing that C and Unix people complained about with other systems like Multics.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Lisp, APL, BASIC, SNOBOL, PL/I, Prolog, Simula 67, Algol 68, and Smalltalk 71 are all older than C.
            Out of that list only two are kind of valid examples.

            >It's easier to write secure code in assembly than it is in C.
            >t. has never written secure code or assembly

            >Which is literally the opposite of how Unix and C were developed. This is the biggest thing that C and Unix people complained about with other systems like Multics.
            Yeah, they were hippies, and still better programmers than the she/hers crying about C.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            My pronouns actually are you/were.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I can't tell if that's a self own, a cry for help, or a pathetic attempt at a threat.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Out of that list only two are kind of valid examples.
            All of those are higher level languages than C. All of them except for PL/I and some versions of BASIC had garbage collection.

            >>t. has never written secure code or assembly
            You are not using null-terminated strings in assembly and your assembler doesn't assume things about your code that change what you wrote based on nonsense undefined behavior rules.

            >Yeah, they were hippies, and still better programmers than
            I don't think they were better programmers than people who make better programming languages.

            >the she/hers crying about C.
            See

            >troony thread (trannies making threads LARPing as /C/hads to incite controversy and drama).
            "/C/hads" have always been trannies. All C threads are troony threads.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Horton
            >Mary Ann Horton (born Mark R. Horton, on November 21, 1955), is a Usenet and Internet pioneer. Horton contributed to Berkeley UNIX (BSD), including the vi editor and terminfo database,[1][2] created the first email binary attachment tool uuencode, and led the growth of Usenet in the 1980s.[3]
            >In 1981, Horton became a Member of Technical Staff of Bell Labs in Columbus, Ohio. At Bell Labs she brought parts of Berkeley UNIX to UNIX System V, including vi and curses; as part of the work on curses, she developed terminfo as a replacement for termcap (most of this work shipped as part of SVR2).[7] In 1987 she joined the Bell Labs Computation Center to bring official support for Usenet and Email to Bell Labs.
            >Horton's 1990 book, Portable C Software[18] became a popular reference for programming in C.[citation needed] It outlined functions and programming techniques that could be reliably used on many different types of computer systems, and which methods were unportable.
            >Horton is a transgender woman. Adopting the name Mary Ann in 1987, Horton founded Columbus' first transgender support group, the Crystal Club,[20] in 1989. In 1997, she joined EQUAL,[21] Lucent's LGBT employee resource group, and saw the value of being "out" at work, supported by an Equal Opportunity (EO) nondiscrimination policy. At the time, no major company included transgender language in their EO policy. Horton asked for its inclusion in Lucent's policy, and recommended the language "gender identity, characteristics, or expression". As a result, Lucent became the first large company to add transgender-inclusive language to its EO policy in 1997.[4]

            . The only crying from she/hers is about people not worshiping C.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >>Out of that list only two are kind of valid examples.
            >All of those are higher level languages than C.
            I did not say "no languages higher than C", I gave two very specific examples of modern languages with no real equivalents back then. Learn English.

            >You are not using null-terminated strings in assembly
            >MUH NUL TERMINATORS!!!
            Have nothing to do with anything. I agree it's a bad design choice for robust string processing, but it wasn't intended for that. It was a dead simple way to indicate EndOfLine in terminal and simple I/O input. It kind of grew from there beyond intent, which happens.

            >and your assembler doesn't assume things about your code that change what you wrote based on nonsense undefined behavior rules.
            Rhetoric without example. Discarded.

            >I don't think they were better programmers than people who make better programming languages.
            Your definition of "better" is "holds my hand." Name your better language and we'll see if it can solve certain problems as quickly/efficiently. Only modern, popular languages that might rise to that challenge (depends on the problem) are C++ and (I'm vomiting saying this) Rust.

            >The only crying from she/hers is about people not worshiping C.
            Nobody tells you to "worship" C, just stop flooding IQfy with your ignorant opinions about it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >It kind of grew from there beyond intent, which happens.
            you had 51 years to fix it but Cniles are incompetent

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Prolog
            My beloved

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >basically the ultimate racist patriarchy waterfall development team
            >That last point, btw, is why really robust code was really robust. They didn't accept "coders" wearing thigh high socks. They didn't have agile or scrum masters or codes of conduct.
            That's exactly my point. Modern programming scene is a mess, the peak is in the 60s before Unix and C and Rust is just an even bigger mistake than C.
            >verification not required

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            even really robust and reputable software is broken
            >linux close syscall can be interrupted by a signal
            >you should not try to close again

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >zig
      Does zig have a package manager like cargo or a proper build system?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        No, because there are no packages to manage

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >sar, pls do the needful and use java sar
      Java sucks on so many levels that I would rather use Rust.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    C++ move semantics are atrocious and difficult to debug. They're why I moved to Rust.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Rust doesn't offer anything
    End of.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This thread though shows that cargo and a standard build system without dynamic linking madness is real benefit or at least something that rust offers over c++.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Except any self respecting company disables crates.io and basically does what C++ programmers do anyway.
        And I'm implying that anyone uses Rust in the real world.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Brother, do you even understand what move constructors actually do?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      In the context of unique smart pointers I think I understand, they invalidate the existing pointer and move the ownership to another scope which then had the responsibility to transfer it back or let it be freed, isn't this what rust's borrow checker is doing?

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I have come to the conclusion that I don't really like c-syntax but will tolerate it for JS and that is about it. Its a lot of typing to do anything in most of these languages and they keep mixing too many symbols and words. C++/C/Rust etc the only difference to me is how much typing I have to do.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >typing is hard
      you probably find thinking before you type completely impossible

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.gentoo.org/news/2023/12/29/Gentoo-binary.html

    You can now be sure that it is not genderfluid.

  14. 1 month ago
    sage

    troony thread (trannies making threads LARPing as /C/hads to incite controversy and drama).
    Reminder that trannies need the drama and attention, otherwise their language goes unnoticed and forgotten into oblivionfrick.
    Don't argue with the troony.
    Don't reply to the troony thread.
    I won't respond to any reply. Have a good day.
    Out.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >troony thread (trannies making threads LARPing as /C/hads to incite controversy and drama).
      "/C/hads" have always been trannies. All C threads are troony threads.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ann_Horton
      >Mary Ann Horton (born Mark R. Horton, on November 21, 1955), is a Usenet and Internet pioneer. Horton contributed to Berkeley UNIX (BSD), including the vi editor and terminfo database,[1][2] created the first email binary attachment tool uuencode, and led the growth of Usenet in the 1980s.[3]
      >In 1981, Horton became a Member of Technical Staff of Bell Labs in Columbus, Ohio. At Bell Labs she brought parts of Berkeley UNIX to UNIX System V, including vi and curses; as part of the work on curses, she developed terminfo as a replacement for termcap (most of this work shipped as part of SVR2).[7] In 1987 she joined the Bell Labs Computation Center to bring official support for Usenet and Email to Bell Labs.
      >Horton's 1990 book, Portable C Software[18] became a popular reference for programming in C.[citation needed] It outlined functions and programming techniques that could be reliably used on many different types of computer systems, and which methods were unportable.
      >Horton is a transgender woman. Adopting the name Mary Ann in 1987, Horton founded Columbus' first transgender support group, the Crystal Club,[20] in 1989. In 1997, she joined EQUAL,[21] Lucent's LGBT employee resource group, and saw the value of being "out" at work, supported by an Equal Opportunity (EO) nondiscrimination policy. At the time, no major company included transgender language in their EO policy. Horton asked for its inclusion in Lucent's policy, and recommended the language "gender identity, characteristics, or expression". As a result, Lucent became the first large company to add transgender-inclusive language to its EO policy in 1997.[4]

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      So this anon was right, this thread was made by a troony larping as a Chad with a cherrypicked, easily controvertible topic to start a shit-smearing campaing, very much a-la-liberal.
      troony just confessed here 99988303

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Rust doesn't offer anything over C++ with smart pointers
    That's not even true lol. Rust has destructive moves. C++ does not, it's move semantics is actually just cheaper copying, it can't actually move the value to different scope.

    This matters because this is the reason why Rust smart pointers are zero cost and C++ ones are not. https://youtu.be/rHIkrotSwcc

    Additionally C++ smart pointers have to be thread safe. They have to be atomically counted which prevents further optimization. Actually, GCC does some pretty sketchy magic to detect if smart pointers will be used in threaded environment and this system can be tricked causing hidden undefined behavior, yay!

    And now, even if you sacrifice the performance, C++ still is far behind rust when it comes to safety guarantees. It's still full of footguns and gochias that you have to be aware of or your program is no longer safe.

    You clearly have no idea where the actual strengths of your language lay. Trying to compete with Rust in its game is a quick way to lose.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Actually, GCC does some pretty sketchy magic to detect if smart pointers will be used in threaded environment and this system can be tricked causing hidden undefined behavior, yay!
      Midwit understanding of UB, do not respond by the way.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        From the standard:

        >[intro.races]
        >The execution of a program contains a data race if it contains two potentially concurrent conflicting actions, at least one of which is not atomic, and neither happens before the other, except for the special case for signal handlers described below. Any such data race results in undefined behavior. ...
        If you trick GCC into using non atomic shared pointer and use it from different two threads you get undefined behavior.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Midwit understanding of UB as a concept once again. It is implementation defined if GCC chooses it to be, there's no UB being caused by this unless there's a bug.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >You clearly have no idea where the actual strengths of your language lay. Trying to compete with Rust in its game is a quick way to lose.
      That's exactly why I made this thread and I consider it a success. A very interesting discussion and I'm starting to get why Rust may make sense after all. Thank you.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Rust making sense
        try to bitwise not an integer using ~

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    "Rc<RefCell<T>>" sets you free.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    low iq thread

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    99988358
    I'm not a C++ chad but I'm not convinced by Rust either. I'm just reading about both languages because I can't believe I'm there one who is seeing that rust is a solution in search of a program when many intelligent people are seeing the value in rust. Is it a crime to ask? I said in the op "change my mind" I never lied

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >change my mind
      if that were possible you'd have arrived at the only correct conclusion

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >smart pointers, move semantics and the automatic and safe memory managemen
    all bloat

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