There are little charged particles going in circles in the magnet in the same direction (around the same pole. Imagine all the roundabouts in your country. They’re all going in the same direction and around the same pole - pointing to the sky).
These particles going in loops create, because of something called field mathematics, instead of just their usual constant electric force, also a force because of their motion (they’re constantly going in circles). This is fundamentally because of special relativity. When a particle is moving relative to another particle, that other particle sees its electric field in a distorted way, creating a magnetic field that depends on change, also known as flux.
If you have a square (an area) and you locate a location in that square (a point) is that point a particle that moves, or is it a conceptual property of the field?
2 years ago
Anonymous
So it’s quantum mechanical quibbling? Yes the particle doesn’t exactly “move” like a car in a roundabout, and yes it’s not quite a particle like that at all.
But the idea is still valid and a good basic model. The “particle” “moves around” in “circles”. It’s all a bit more subtle but that’s the intuitive explanation if we choose to model it classically (the way that comes more naturally to laymen imo)
2 years ago
Anonymous
this is where the wave interference comes into play. all waves are point based spheres, there at any point at some radius, the signal acts like a sine-type wave. overlapping waves from various locations will interefere in ways that will produce spikes, these spikes are what we would call a particle, to simplify the understanding.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sounds like we agree. I think my explanation was pretty good all the same. It’s good enough for magnets anyways
2 years ago
Anonymous
I think the best way to think of it, is that its a fractal problem, much like the coastline issue. One is a discrete approach, and one is a functional approach.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You two don't agree. He's a total pseud. You are less of a pseud, but apparently not at the level where you can recognize someone who is saying something that is complete nonsense
2 years ago
Anonymous
>particle doesn’t exactly “move”
A ring can move too.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Is it useful to jerk off about quantum mechanical hypotheses about the ontology of the electron when all we want to know is why I can't pick up a penny with a magnet?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>why I can't pick up a penny with a magnet?
The little magnetic moments in the penny (spinning or orbiting electrons if you want) want to align with the magnet, but entropy wants to disorder them. These are always the two factors at play, and which one wins depends on the specific material and temperature.
Electrons aren’t particles? Is this like a quantum-mechanics quibble or do you reject electrons in general? I’m fascinated
If you have a square (an area) and you locate a location in that square (a point) is that point a particle that moves, or is it a conceptual property of the field?
So it’s quantum mechanical quibbling? Yes the particle doesn’t exactly “move” like a car in a roundabout, and yes it’s not quite a particle like that at all.
But the idea is still valid and a good basic model. The “particle” “moves around” in “circles”. It’s all a bit more subtle but that’s the intuitive explanation if we choose to model it classically (the way that comes more naturally to laymen imo)
this is where the wave interference comes into play. all waves are point based spheres, there at any point at some radius, the signal acts like a sine-type wave. overlapping waves from various locations will interefere in ways that will produce spikes, these spikes are what we would call a particle, to simplify the understanding.
Sounds like we agree. I think my explanation was pretty good all the same. It’s good enough for magnets anyways
IQfy in a nutshell. He just HAD to be "technically" correct, even though he actually wasn't and was just trying his hardest to look smart. He probably thinks he educated us all by explaining that particles are not really like particles in an intuitive sense. He sure showed you...
But I personally think the guy who gave them explanation about the magnets was right. He put it clearly and succinctly answering op’s question. Everything else was just bullshit arguing
Nothing you wrote is clear. You need to come to terms that you cant explain magnetism to people that dont know anything about it with a couple of sentences. Whatever you know isnt something you can pass along casually and also you suck at simplifying or being didactical.
Consider how casually you talk about "something called field mathematics". This is a meaningless statement on its own without proper context, you just write it because you think it sounds cool
2 years ago
Anonymous
Is it the technical terms that bother you then? I thought they helped clarify things. Here I’ll rewrite it:
There are little charged particles going in circles in the magnet in the same direction (around the same pole. Imagine all the roundabouts in your country. They’re all going in the same direction and around the same pole - pointing to the sky).
These particles going in loops create, instead of just their usual constant electric force, also a force because of their motion (they’re constantly going in circles). This is fundamentally because when particle A is moving relative to particle B, that particle A sees particle B’s electric field in a distorted way, creating a seemingly new kind of field we call magnetic field, which only affects particles which are in motion relative to particle B (because only in motion does the particle get that distorted field).
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Is it the technical terms that bother you then? I thought they helped clarify things
Black person it bothers me that you write things that have no meaning for people that dont have any background in physics or mathematics.
>new kind of field we call magnetic field
Idiot. This is not an explanation of magnetism. You are saying magnetism happens because theres particles that create magnetism, but then you also drop scientisms and 6 dollar words for no purpose. I have met plenty of buttholes like you that think saying atom or molecule or particle makes it scientific.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Explain something scientific to me, but you aren't allowed to use scientific jargon and I have a short attention span so the explanation has to be brief but at the same time completely coherent. If you can't do it it will confirm my preconceived notion that scientists don't actually understand anything.
2 years ago
Anonymous
moron if the person knew all this physics jargon he wouldn't ask you to explain magnetism in first place.
Fricking autists frick off
2 years ago
Anonymous
I didn’t say a new kind of field I said a seemingly new kind of field. I’m afraid you didn’t quite understand.
The new effects are a result of movement. If the word field is a “six dollar word” for you, then replace it with “the push or pull other particles feel around a particle”
>There are little charged particles going in circles in the magnet in the same direction
nope. accelerating charges emit photons so we can verify whether or not electrons are actually "spinning" around the nuclei, and they are not.
I said later on that I’m disregarding quantum mechanical quibbling because I’m trying to stay clear. But yes, electron spin isn’t really movement or spinning or anything like that. It has some property that can be called analogous to spinning (in lieu of any other term) which is even without change in momentum proportional to the spin operator and external magnetic field. happy??
A particle is anything with a discrete start and discrete end. This includes ticks on a thermometer or voltmeter. It doesn't have to be material.
Subatomic configurations lead to general intrinsic properties of the atom. Temperature, density, charge all depend on configuration of the subatomic components, and they show up as global or general properties of the atom. It's like this because there's a delay. That configuration occurs. A little bit of time passes. The atom's properties then reflect that configuration.
Subatomic configurations also interact with other atoms. That's what electromagnetism is. Interaction where internal configuration is the medium.
Ferromagnetism is super strong. Interactions occur but electrons do not change.
Think of a waterballoon made out of very strong material so when I collides it doesn't burst;
When it does collide it's body waves;
Or maybe it does burst, and all it's little parts travel outward in the distribution of wave length.
H20 molecules are roughly particles; when water waves show interference patterns it's due to the given relative velocity and momentum of h20 particles.
I realize you're trying to be funny (you aren't) but the atoms in your ass are not actually contacting the atoms in the chair.
People get their mind blown by magnets but don't even consider that it's just another force, only that it's easier for midwits to see
Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
>Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
Someone answer this.
What the frick is inbetwee repulsing magnets? That shit happens in pure vacuum too (so it's not just air magnetically trapped becoming something of a solid barrier)?
And as the repulsing magnets are squeezed together, is energy released?
>Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
Do photons or any energy emit from between repulsing magnets being forced nearer?
Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
Do photons or any energy emit from between repulsing magnets being forced nearer?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Someone answer
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens? >Do photons or any energy emit from between repulsing magnets being forced nearer?
???
2 years ago
Anonymous
Answer please
2 years ago
Eman Nep
What is happening there?
This happens in a vacuum too?
You take robot arms in a vacuum and each of them bring the N pole to the other ones N pole, and at some distance, all the sudden the magnets feel resistance, 12 inches, 8 inches, 6 inches, 4 inches, there is really some existing barrier preventing the magnets from being brought to each other any further
2 years ago
Anonymous
Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
Do photons or any energy emit from between repulsing magnets being forced nearer?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Magnets would attempt to change each other's polarity. If such a change is allowed by their structure, they would succeed, and reach a state where they are attracted to each other or stop being magnets eventually.
Additional photons aren't emitted, but the ones emitted have higher energy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So by pushing the repulsing poles of very strong magnets, closer and closer;
You are saying the allignment of electrons would begin to change?
When push comes to shove, unstoppable force immoveable object type situation, Nature would like to just flip the magnet, but that's being prevented, so the electrons in the magnet feel the force and begin to change, implying the material will fall apart eventually?
I'm also mainly wondering if you place photon detectors and the best most subtle detection systems around the center point in between the Npole and Npole, and push them closer and closer;. What is that detector detecting, as the magnets are pushed closer and closer? Any thing at all, an changes?
And you push and push the repulsing magnets closer and closer, until they are 1 inch away, these are the strongest magnets, held by the strongest hydraulic machines in place; what is being detected energy wise in the center of them?
Just like in magnet iron filing field lines, it's just a static compressed field, no action?
Repulsion is not an active ongoing process, unless force is pushing the repulsion closer?
OK well basically all the little electromagnetical sneedies inside the magnet line up, and together they whizzle and snizzle and sing WOOPDEDOO!! and when another manget comes along, well pretty soon they are all singing and zinging together, weeeee wooo WAHOOOOOooooooo.........
Ok hear me out for one second
vacuums suck air towards them
Water flows down a hill.
lighting strikes a flagpole.
All of this is actually an expression of pressure mediation.
Nothing is being sucked
there is no such thing as suction
It is an absence of things just like the concepts of nothingness and darkness.
maybe I am completely wrong but I have the notion that every force that appears to pull is actually an absence of something
negative being the absence of positive...
If this is the case then the universe seems to be polarized into negative and positive
But I don't quite understand it
I think there is a higher dimension to the world that we just can't quite understand
I think it might help to take a high does of LSD
>Any chance the earth and sun movement through space plays a role?
You take robot arms in a vacuum and each of them bring the N pole to the other ones N pole, and at some distance, all the sudden the magnets feel resistance, 12 inches, 8 inches, 6 inches, 4 inches, there is really some existing barrier preventing the magnets from being brought to each other any further
If you are asking what magnetism fundamentally is in the mechanical sense then you have two competing ideas.
1. the mainstream explanation is that Magnetism is the force that a moving electric charge creates on another electric charge via the exchange of virtual photon quanta(a photon that cant be directly observed). This exchange also mediates an electric force as well, as this force is always present where charge is present. The magnetic force information is only transmitted when both interacting electric particles are moving at different speeds relative to one another
2. Magnetism, electrostatic fields, and gravity are all different forms of spatial deformation of the fabric of space( which is a real substance with a young's modulus). Einstein's general relativity describes gravity as a geometrical deformation of space in which space is made to bend and contract. This contraction bending causes space to become non-Euclidean. Presumably since space is modeled as a solid in general relativity, there can only be a few unique ways to deform this solid space. Hence the electromagnetic force must also be some unique kind of deformation of space that is inherently polarized (positive and negative). Torsion or rotation deformation of space could be the actual mechanical cause as this is polarized with clockwise and anticlockwise spin.
Somehow the nuclear forces must also be explained with some unique geometric deformation of space but Idk on that one.
Really it all comes down to this, is space more fundamental or are particles more fundamental?
the maybe is random and unfounded, and we also don't know that it can't be the other way around either
it's just speculation
2 years ago
Anonymous
What causes water to wave? What causes water to be still?
Ocean waves are due to gravity interacting
The stillness of a pond is due to earths gravity being stable
2 years ago
Anonymous
doesn't really matter, since we don't know how close the analogy is
for all we know the field does not have a meaningful existence when it is not waving
2 years ago
Anonymous
>for all we know the field does not have a meaningful existence when it is not waving
E and B field?
Is the field lines around a magnet that lock iron fillings into place, waving?
And if not, you would say it doesn't have a meaningful existence?
2 years ago
Anonymous
because we can't detect it in any way
2 years ago
Anonymous
>because we can't detect it in any way
Is the arrangement of iron filings at a distance from a magnets body; and the sensations of attraction and repulsion between magnets, not a form of detection?
If you take a magnet and move it back and forth in relation to another magnet, certainly a change in the field is detected;
And if you do this in a certain way; EM radiation is generated and detected;
So EM field; static electricity, magnetism; IS EM radiation that has not been accelerated in the particularly certain way so that it is detected.
EM radiation is when the stability of the local fields are tampered, so the local field achieves stability, by propagating its instability away from it.
The fields are stable in equilibrium;
But when a tiny electron is accelerated in a particular way this upsets the stable EM field, and results in the instability propagating away from the source of instability made.
EM radiation is a kink being ironed out.
The stable field is made in the area of a few cubic inches, billions and billions of electrons, all in different proximities and density clusters;
When one or a few, of the billions or quadrillions of field forming electrons of an area, are accelerated, this warps that local stability of field, and the field restabilizes it's local self by propagating away the instability.
2 years ago
Anonymous
now put a magnetic field into a location where nothing that interacts with a magnetic field is present
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ok. So we travel outside the solar system,
,to be safe and sure
We construct a 20 cubic yards room, and make it perfect vacuum as can be made; we float a magnet into the center of it.
Now what is it you are asking?
2 years ago
Anonymous
no, a magnetic field has infinite range, we can't make such an experiment
2 years ago
Anonymous
If there are iron filings around field lines at a distance from a magnets body;
The iron filings detect the EM field;
Why can we not measure and detect it, more intimately than by proxy of them?
2 years ago
Anonymous
because there are no iron filings, that's the point, there's nothing that can detect it
2 years ago
Anonymous
No I'm saying, iron filings acting at a distance from the magnets body, is detecting the EM field.
There is actually something there, the iron filings are proof and detection of this thing that's there;
There actually is some reason objects fall to the surface of earth, dropping an object is proof and detection of this; it is just not a very deep probing of the source of the existence and cause
2 years ago
Anonymous
yes, i know what you're saying, but my premise was that there was nothing that could detect the field, such as iron filings or anything else that interacts with magnetism
2 years ago
Anonymous
Hmm I don't know
2 years ago
Anonymous
There is the atomic baryonic matter world, and the medium of field aether, the latter is not made of quarks and electrons;
In gravity and electro magnetism it's effects on electrons and quarks are seen, from our macro scale; but apparently we can not subtely use quarks and electrons to establish a device that can corral and corner the fundamental substance of the gravity and electromagnetic field medium aether
>the exchange of virtual photon quanta(a photon that cant be directly observed).
If the field lines are shown, and the attraction and repulsion between two magnets is seen, why are these virtual photons so different than ones that can be detected?
What about the most subtle energy detection devices, register no energy, when N-pole is brought closer and closer to N-pole?
virtual photons are called so because they cant be observed by definition. I'm not very familiar with quantum electrodynamics but the virtual photon would transfer information like the charge of one particle to another. Its honestly very math heavy and abstract.
If you want a satisfying mechanical explanation then you won't get one. You are told that this particle exchange happens all the time between charges. The evidence given that this is indeed the case is that the virtual photon model accurately predicts electromagnetic phenomenon to one part in like a trillion.
However I must bring something to your attention. In condensed matter physics the most successful general theory for vibration and its propagation within solids is phonon theory. The theory "pretends" that there is a particle called a phonon propagating quantized vibration within the solid. Keyword being pretend, its made up. Phonons don't really exist. They are quasi particles and yet the best theory to describe vibrations in solids is this phonon idea. That should give you an idea that just because a model gives you correct results doesn't mean that its mechanically true.
Perhaps only the strongest forces in nature can be accurately described with a particle model while the much much weaker force of gravity cannot because even though forces may be fundamentally like how Einstein described, they overwhelmingly look like virtual particle interactions at there current strength values. FYI one of the biggest reason graviton theories don't work is because of gravity having such a weak coupling strength.
Generally, it you have a rectangle of solid material, and bang one end, and then bang it again twice as hard, and then 10 times as hard; likely the vibrations that travel through the material will be different each time.
They will also be an exact quantity and quality.
Phonon is not an existing particle object; but a characteristic quality trait that particle objects can possess.
A surface wave on a pond is not an object, it's a characteristic quality a still pond can possibly have, and they will differ depending on how hard you punch the pond.
Generally, it you have a rectangle of solid material, and bang one end, and then bang it again twice as hard, and then 10 times as hard; likely the vibrations that travel through the material will be different each time.
They will also be an exact quantity and quality.
Phonon is not an existing particle object; but a characteristic quality trait that particle objects can possess.
A surface wave on a pond is not an object, it's a characteristic quality a still pond can possibly have, and they will differ depending on how hard you punch the pond.
All forces are two or more forces maybe thats why.
All things are constantly being forced;. And then whenever something new enters the system, that which is doing the constant forces, exhibits itself differently in its reaction to the new thing that enters it's system
I'm also mainly wondering if you place photon detectors and the best most subtle detection systems around the center point in between the Npole and Npole, and push them closer and closer;.
What is that detector detecting, as the magnets are pushed closer and closer? Any thing at all, an changes?
And you push and push the repulsing magnets closer and closer, until they are 1 inch away, these are the strongest magnets, held by the strongest hydraulic machines in place; what is being detected energy wise in the center of them?
Certain metallic crystals will align at low temperatures and all shoot virtual photons in the the same direction creating attractive and repulsive forces with other metals that have crystals that are either already aligned or can be aligned by exposure to a magnetic field.
>Seriously, how the frick do they work?
I want to embed magnets into a high-permeability material to multiply the repel-forces between them.
Permalloy & metglass is expensive. so I'll use something cheap.......
How many times stronger is the repel-force if I use Grade-AA MILD-STEEL?
material = Grade-AA MILD-STEEL
permeability = 1000
Another problem is blocking the Magnetic-Pole-return-path...
Do any of the configs in pic solve the problem?
>Why do field lines have arrows like that,
to show orientation & polarity >field lines dont move like a tug of war rope do they?
see pic >Also your color coding, is the grey the South pole and red North?
yes >What is your goal to achieve?
to have embedded magnets that still work.
Cool, embedding strong magnets, and then drilling holes in the embedding, do the field lines pour out the holes?
Your pic, is that suggesting the field lines do move like a train moves? There is constant flow?
And there is no way to concieve or what field lines actually are? Like particles with mass and relative density and quantum spin, and cohesion to neihbors,
Field lines are made of virtual photons? Are all virtual photons the same shape and size, where do they come from, they are generated and destroyed? When I the evolution of big bang did they all form? What came first the photon, the electron, or the virtual photon?
Are photons; virtual photons that are extremely forced to move a certain way?
Are photons, virtual photons that are squeezed out of their place in the field line?
Is em radiation, collapsed or tangled field lines?
Like field lines exist, and you can poke them and they wobble a little bit but return to their place, but if you poke them quick and hard enough they spazz out?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Cool, embedding strong magnets, and then drilling holes in the embedding, do the field lines pour out the holes? >Your pic, is that suggesting the field lines do move like a train moves? There is constant flow? >And there is no way to concieve or what field lines actually are? Like particles with mass and relative density and quantum spin, and cohesion to neihbors, >Field lines are made of virtual photons? Are all virtual photons the same shape and size, where do they come from, they are generated and destroyed? When I the evolution of big bang did they all form? What came first the photon, the electron, or the virtual photon? >Are photons; virtual photons that are extremely forced to move a certain way? >Are photons, virtual photons that are squeezed out of their place in the field line? >Is em radiation, collapsed or tangled field lines? >Like field lines exist, and you can poke them and they wobble a little bit but return to their place, but if you poke them quick and hard enough they spazz out?
I just wanted my embedded magnets to work & increased force in one specific direction, like a Halbach array does.
I wasn't interested in all the rest of it.
Non meme answer:
Magnetism is more or less at the bottom of our knowledge; it’s fundamental.
Imagine if you’re trying to learn more and more about how something works or what it is made of.
• What is this table made of? Wood
• What is wood made of? Cells
• What are cells made of? Molecules
• What are molecules made of? Atoms and the forces that hold them together
• What are atoms made of? Protons, neutrons, electrons and the forces that hold them together
• What are protons made of? Quarks and the force that holds them together.
Eventually when you go small enough you get to the bottom, which either means we know it is the smallest thing or we don’t know what is smaller.
As far as we know now, the bottom is made of a few fundamental particles and a couple fundamental forces. Magnetism is one of those forces.
Physicists actually know quite a bit about how they work, meaning what happens when you put particles and forces that interact with each other together (for example, see flabbergasted1’s link on how particles and forces come together to make an “everyday” magnet). But nobody really knows why they work, or if that’s even a meaningful question.
How do they do it? What ultimately forces what to force what to force what?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Bosons are field-particles impacting the compass needle.
Fields are Boson particles.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Answer these please:
What are field lines made of?
What's the mass of the particles that make up the field lines?
How many degrees of freedom do the field lines have?
When in the history cosmology of big bang were field lines made?
Can field lines be created or destroyed?
Do field lines have quantum spin and magnetic moments?
>What's the mass of the particles that make up the field lines?
How many particles exist in a field line section of length of your choosing?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>mass of...
go look it up. >field-line properties & characteristics
consider what makes each type of field..
consider when that possibility first existed...
It was then..
2 years ago
Anonymous
>consider what makes each type of field..
Virtual photons? EM essence? >consider when that possibility first existed...
When does cosmology say the virtual photon field lines crystalized into place in the evolution of big bang?
>lorentz force: qvB (B magnetic field, v= particle's speed, 1: particles charge) >metal atoms have moving charges because of spin > spin movement causes the alignement of charges to the magnetic field lines
am I allowed to imagine that if enough electrons are spinning in a specific path, other elctrons that interact with them are knocked into taking the same path?
The real question is how do a lot of these forces begin? Where do they come from? Electicity is energy, but where the frick does gravity come from? Like yes, it’s described as a force relation between two objects, but how does gravity ”start”? Why don’t things just float linearly?
same force as gravity
You'll mostly get bullshit answers here, I'm afraid.
Gravity is not a force.
There is no magnetism, we call it electromagnetism since ages.
>Gravity is not a force.
Wat? *floats into space*
>Gravity is not a force.
Get the frick off this board.
wrong.
Magnets work due to magnetism. Just like how sleeping pills work by having a sleepiness effect.
and youre gay because youre a homosexual
kek
actually, being a homosexual is what makes him gay.
anon we can't even properly explain what a number is
Numbers are succesors of their predecessor starting at 0.
Now you only have to explain 0
define zero as
opposite of 1 or -1, it can be either + or - like i
wheres my fricking nobel homosexuals...
hmmm
You have to say something smart and correct first
>Numbers are successors of their predecessor
Starts at 1. 0 is its absence
Language character marking a differentiation of quantity. Founded on a system of hierarchical succession
a number is not what it isn't. there
that applies to everything though, not just numbers
this is an improper explanation
There are little charged particles going in circles in the magnet in the same direction (around the same pole. Imagine all the roundabouts in your country. They’re all going in the same direction and around the same pole - pointing to the sky).
These particles going in loops create, because of something called field mathematics, instead of just their usual constant electric force, also a force because of their motion (they’re constantly going in circles). This is fundamentally because of special relativity. When a particle is moving relative to another particle, that other particle sees its electric field in a distorted way, creating a magnetic field that depends on change, also known as flux.
>particles
theyre not fricking particles you moron
Electrons aren’t particles? Is this like a quantum-mechanics quibble or do you reject electrons in general? I’m fascinated
If you have a square (an area) and you locate a location in that square (a point) is that point a particle that moves, or is it a conceptual property of the field?
So it’s quantum mechanical quibbling? Yes the particle doesn’t exactly “move” like a car in a roundabout, and yes it’s not quite a particle like that at all.
But the idea is still valid and a good basic model. The “particle” “moves around” in “circles”. It’s all a bit more subtle but that’s the intuitive explanation if we choose to model it classically (the way that comes more naturally to laymen imo)
this is where the wave interference comes into play. all waves are point based spheres, there at any point at some radius, the signal acts like a sine-type wave. overlapping waves from various locations will interefere in ways that will produce spikes, these spikes are what we would call a particle, to simplify the understanding.
Sounds like we agree. I think my explanation was pretty good all the same. It’s good enough for magnets anyways
I think the best way to think of it, is that its a fractal problem, much like the coastline issue. One is a discrete approach, and one is a functional approach.
You two don't agree. He's a total pseud. You are less of a pseud, but apparently not at the level where you can recognize someone who is saying something that is complete nonsense
>particle doesn’t exactly “move”
A ring can move too.
Is it useful to jerk off about quantum mechanical hypotheses about the ontology of the electron when all we want to know is why I can't pick up a penny with a magnet?
>why I can't pick up a penny with a magnet?
The little magnetic moments in the penny (spinning or orbiting electrons if you want) want to align with the magnet, but entropy wants to disorder them. These are always the two factors at play, and which one wins depends on the specific material and temperature.
IQfy in a nutshell. He just HAD to be "technically" correct, even though he actually wasn't and was just trying his hardest to look smart. He probably thinks he educated us all by explaining that particles are not really like particles in an intuitive sense. He sure showed you...
Which anon are you supporting here? I can’t tell
But I personally think the guy who gave them explanation about the magnets was right. He put it clearly and succinctly answering op’s question. Everything else was just bullshit arguing
Pure schizophasia
Which part is unclear? I tried to simplify as much as I could while including as much information as possible
Nothing you wrote is clear. You need to come to terms that you cant explain magnetism to people that dont know anything about it with a couple of sentences. Whatever you know isnt something you can pass along casually and also you suck at simplifying or being didactical.
Consider how casually you talk about "something called field mathematics". This is a meaningless statement on its own without proper context, you just write it because you think it sounds cool
Is it the technical terms that bother you then? I thought they helped clarify things. Here I’ll rewrite it:
There are little charged particles going in circles in the magnet in the same direction (around the same pole. Imagine all the roundabouts in your country. They’re all going in the same direction and around the same pole - pointing to the sky).
These particles going in loops create, instead of just their usual constant electric force, also a force because of their motion (they’re constantly going in circles). This is fundamentally because when particle A is moving relative to particle B, that particle A sees particle B’s electric field in a distorted way, creating a seemingly new kind of field we call magnetic field, which only affects particles which are in motion relative to particle B (because only in motion does the particle get that distorted field).
>Is it the technical terms that bother you then? I thought they helped clarify things
Black person it bothers me that you write things that have no meaning for people that dont have any background in physics or mathematics.
>new kind of field we call magnetic field
Idiot. This is not an explanation of magnetism. You are saying magnetism happens because theres particles that create magnetism, but then you also drop scientisms and 6 dollar words for no purpose. I have met plenty of buttholes like you that think saying atom or molecule or particle makes it scientific.
>Explain something scientific to me, but you aren't allowed to use scientific jargon and I have a short attention span so the explanation has to be brief but at the same time completely coherent. If you can't do it it will confirm my preconceived notion that scientists don't actually understand anything.
moron if the person knew all this physics jargon he wouldn't ask you to explain magnetism in first place.
Fricking autists frick off
I didn’t say a new kind of field I said a seemingly new kind of field. I’m afraid you didn’t quite understand.
The new effects are a result of movement. If the word field is a “six dollar word” for you, then replace it with “the push or pull other particles feel around a particle”
>There are little charged particles going in circles in the magnet in the same direction
nope. accelerating charges emit photons so we can verify whether or not electrons are actually "spinning" around the nuclei, and they are not.
They orbit without accelerating. It's the same principle that accelerates the box and platform on the orange portal side. Movement without energy.
>orange portal
now THATS what i call schizo
I said later on that I’m disregarding quantum mechanical quibbling because I’m trying to stay clear. But yes, electron spin isn’t really movement or spinning or anything like that. It has some property that can be called analogous to spinning (in lieu of any other term) which is even without change in momentum proportional to the spin operator and external magnetic field. happy??
>accelerating charges emit photons
Yes, this is why higher energy levels in atoms decay. The lowest energy level has nowhere to decay to.
moron
smart
Can you explain for an american I don't fully grasp what a roundabout is
These uh... "little particles." Are they in the room with us right now?
A particle is anything with a discrete start and discrete end. This includes ticks on a thermometer or voltmeter. It doesn't have to be material.
Subatomic configurations lead to general intrinsic properties of the atom. Temperature, density, charge all depend on configuration of the subatomic components, and they show up as global or general properties of the atom. It's like this because there's a delay. That configuration occurs. A little bit of time passes. The atom's properties then reflect that configuration.
Subatomic configurations also interact with other atoms. That's what electromagnetism is. Interaction where internal configuration is the medium.
Ferromagnetism is super strong. Interactions occur but electrons do not change.
Think of a waterballoon made out of very strong material so when I collides it doesn't burst;
When it does collide it's body waves;
Or maybe it does burst, and all it's little parts travel outward in the distribution of wave length.
H20 molecules are roughly particles; when water waves show interference patterns it's due to the given relative velocity and momentum of h20 particles.
>magnets create magnetic fields which causes magnetism.
This explains everything, thanks.
Magic
PURE mutha fricking magic to be exact
objects are always in motion. Magnetism is a form of motion.
Easy:
Magnets : these attract nails
Nails : are attracted to magnets
Don't lie, nails attract magnets too.
They are merely a israeli illusion
It's simple to explain, but it requires admitting that energy can be created
How does your body hold together? How do you not fall through your chair when you sit?
>How does your body hold together?
Very well.
>How do you not fall through your chair when you sit?
Because I'm not a fat frick like you, you disease magnet.
I realize you're trying to be funny (you aren't) but the atoms in your ass are not actually contacting the atoms in the chair.
People get their mind blown by magnets but don't even consider that it's just another force, only that it's easier for midwits to see
Does it have anything to do with absolute terror fields?
>i've watched feynman so i'm smart because i use the same cope
Magnets turn everything into magnets. Duh.
Notice how when you're spinning, everything else starts spinning too. Magnets are created by spinning particles.
>Magnets are created by spinning particles.
heh...particles
>heh...particles
Soup? Sludge? Jelly? Foam? Goo? Quicksilver? Juice? Slime? Essence?
If there is something, it is a particle, the entre ocean as a whole is a particle, is it not?
Ok I get it you mean like a baseball or organge or marble?
Is an electron more like an ocean than a baseball?
Accelerating electrons produce magnetic photons that curve space, but only for metals
Concentrated wave functions birthed within the big bang. Cooled on a plate, and served to you.
Imagine 2 very strong magnets (or 6).
And you bring the same poles toward a common center;
S-pole::::::::::N-pole......N-pole::::::S-pole
If you bring the N pole near the N pole, does the force of repulsion produce photons as you over come the repulsion and bring them nearer?
Someone answer this.
Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
>Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
Someone answer this.
What the frick is inbetwee repulsing magnets? That shit happens in pure vacuum too (so it's not just air magnetically trapped becoming something of a solid barrier)?
And as the repulsing magnets are squeezed together, is energy released?
>Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
Do photons or any energy emit from between repulsing magnets being forced nearer?
Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
Do photons or any energy emit from between repulsing magnets being forced nearer?
Someone answer
>Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
>Do photons or any energy emit from between repulsing magnets being forced nearer?
???
Answer please
What is happening there?
This happens in a vacuum too?
You take robot arms in a vacuum and each of them bring the N pole to the other ones N pole, and at some distance, all the sudden the magnets feel resistance, 12 inches, 8 inches, 6 inches, 4 inches, there is really some existing barrier preventing the magnets from being brought to each other any further
Like the strongest magnets in the world; if you take the strongest hydraulic machines in the world, and press the repulsing magnets together what happens?
Do photons or any energy emit from between repulsing magnets being forced nearer?
Magnets would attempt to change each other's polarity. If such a change is allowed by their structure, they would succeed, and reach a state where they are attracted to each other or stop being magnets eventually.
Additional photons aren't emitted, but the ones emitted have higher energy.
So by pushing the repulsing poles of very strong magnets, closer and closer;
You are saying the allignment of electrons would begin to change?
When push comes to shove, unstoppable force immoveable object type situation, Nature would like to just flip the magnet, but that's being prevented, so the electrons in the magnet feel the force and begin to change, implying the material will fall apart eventually?
I'm also mainly wondering if you place photon detectors and the best most subtle detection systems around the center point in between the Npole and Npole, and push them closer and closer;. What is that detector detecting, as the magnets are pushed closer and closer? Any thing at all, an changes?
And you push and push the repulsing magnets closer and closer, until they are 1 inch away, these are the strongest magnets, held by the strongest hydraulic machines in place; what is being detected energy wise in the center of them?
Just like in magnet iron filing field lines, it's just a static compressed field, no action?
Repulsion is not an active ongoing process, unless force is pushing the repulsion closer?
there covered in glue moron
they leak gravity
Particle bros.... this thread cannot be happening right now...
OK well basically all the little electromagnetical sneedies inside the magnet line up, and together they whizzle and snizzle and sing WOOPDEDOO!! and when another manget comes along, well pretty soon they are all singing and zinging together, weeeee wooo WAHOOOOOooooooo.........
Ok hear me out for one second
vacuums suck air towards them
Water flows down a hill.
lighting strikes a flagpole.
All of this is actually an expression of pressure mediation.
Nothing is being sucked
there is no such thing as suction
It is an absence of things just like the concepts of nothingness and darkness.
maybe I am completely wrong but I have the notion that every force that appears to pull is actually an absence of something
negative being the absence of positive...
If this is the case then the universe seems to be polarized into negative and positive
But I don't quite understand it
I think there is a higher dimension to the world that we just can't quite understand
I think it might help to take a high does of LSD
Any chance the earth and sun movement through space plays a role?
>Any chance the earth and sun movement through space plays a role?
You take robot arms in a vacuum and each of them bring the N pole to the other ones N pole, and at some distance, all the sudden the magnets feel resistance, 12 inches, 8 inches, 6 inches, 4 inches, there is really some existing barrier preventing the magnets from being brought to each other any further
Answer this^^^^^
>vacuums suck air towards them
already wrong
demons
God makes them work
If God wanted to personally manage every magnet, why would he create light?
God wrote a class called ELECTROMAGNETISM
If you are asking what magnetism fundamentally is in the mechanical sense then you have two competing ideas.
1. the mainstream explanation is that Magnetism is the force that a moving electric charge creates on another electric charge via the exchange of virtual photon quanta(a photon that cant be directly observed). This exchange also mediates an electric force as well, as this force is always present where charge is present. The magnetic force information is only transmitted when both interacting electric particles are moving at different speeds relative to one another
2. Magnetism, electrostatic fields, and gravity are all different forms of spatial deformation of the fabric of space( which is a real substance with a young's modulus). Einstein's general relativity describes gravity as a geometrical deformation of space in which space is made to bend and contract. This contraction bending causes space to become non-Euclidean. Presumably since space is modeled as a solid in general relativity, there can only be a few unique ways to deform this solid space. Hence the electromagnetic force must also be some unique kind of deformation of space that is inherently polarized (positive and negative). Torsion or rotation deformation of space could be the actual mechanical cause as this is polarized with clockwise and anticlockwise spin.
Somehow the nuclear forces must also be explained with some unique geometric deformation of space but Idk on that one.
Really it all comes down to this, is space more fundamental or are particles more fundamental?
>is the water's still surface more fundamental or is the water's wavy surface more fundamental
Still. Because things beyond it are required to make the waves.
But the characteristic of wave-ability is an equally fundamental characteristic for the substance. X exists, and X can wave.
Maybe X can exist without waving.
Waving cannot exist without X
i don't think so
And why is that?
the maybe is random and unfounded, and we also don't know that it can't be the other way around either
it's just speculation
What causes water to wave? What causes water to be still?
Ocean waves are due to gravity interacting
The stillness of a pond is due to earths gravity being stable
doesn't really matter, since we don't know how close the analogy is
for all we know the field does not have a meaningful existence when it is not waving
>for all we know the field does not have a meaningful existence when it is not waving
E and B field?
Is the field lines around a magnet that lock iron fillings into place, waving?
And if not, you would say it doesn't have a meaningful existence?
because we can't detect it in any way
>because we can't detect it in any way
Is the arrangement of iron filings at a distance from a magnets body; and the sensations of attraction and repulsion between magnets, not a form of detection?
If you take a magnet and move it back and forth in relation to another magnet, certainly a change in the field is detected;
And if you do this in a certain way; EM radiation is generated and detected;
So EM field; static electricity, magnetism; IS EM radiation that has not been accelerated in the particularly certain way so that it is detected.
EM radiation is when the stability of the local fields are tampered, so the local field achieves stability, by propagating its instability away from it.
The fields are stable in equilibrium;
But when a tiny electron is accelerated in a particular way this upsets the stable EM field, and results in the instability propagating away from the source of instability made.
EM radiation is a kink being ironed out.
The stable field is made in the area of a few cubic inches, billions and billions of electrons, all in different proximities and density clusters;
When one or a few, of the billions or quadrillions of field forming electrons of an area, are accelerated, this warps that local stability of field, and the field restabilizes it's local self by propagating away the instability.
now put a magnetic field into a location where nothing that interacts with a magnetic field is present
Ok. So we travel outside the solar system,
,to be safe and sure
We construct a 20 cubic yards room, and make it perfect vacuum as can be made; we float a magnet into the center of it.
Now what is it you are asking?
no, a magnetic field has infinite range, we can't make such an experiment
If there are iron filings around field lines at a distance from a magnets body;
The iron filings detect the EM field;
Why can we not measure and detect it, more intimately than by proxy of them?
because there are no iron filings, that's the point, there's nothing that can detect it
No I'm saying, iron filings acting at a distance from the magnets body, is detecting the EM field.
There is actually something there, the iron filings are proof and detection of this thing that's there;
There actually is some reason objects fall to the surface of earth, dropping an object is proof and detection of this; it is just not a very deep probing of the source of the existence and cause
yes, i know what you're saying, but my premise was that there was nothing that could detect the field, such as iron filings or anything else that interacts with magnetism
Hmm I don't know
There is the atomic baryonic matter world, and the medium of field aether, the latter is not made of quarks and electrons;
In gravity and electro magnetism it's effects on electrons and quarks are seen, from our macro scale; but apparently we can not subtely use quarks and electrons to establish a device that can corral and corner the fundamental substance of the gravity and electromagnetic field medium aether
Baryonic and leptonic*
>the exchange of virtual photon quanta(a photon that cant be directly observed).
If the field lines are shown, and the attraction and repulsion between two magnets is seen, why are these virtual photons so different than ones that can be detected?
What about the most subtle energy detection devices, register no energy, when N-pole is brought closer and closer to N-pole?
virtual photons are called so because they cant be observed by definition. I'm not very familiar with quantum electrodynamics but the virtual photon would transfer information like the charge of one particle to another. Its honestly very math heavy and abstract.
If you want a satisfying mechanical explanation then you won't get one. You are told that this particle exchange happens all the time between charges. The evidence given that this is indeed the case is that the virtual photon model accurately predicts electromagnetic phenomenon to one part in like a trillion.
However I must bring something to your attention. In condensed matter physics the most successful general theory for vibration and its propagation within solids is phonon theory. The theory "pretends" that there is a particle called a phonon propagating quantized vibration within the solid. Keyword being pretend, its made up. Phonons don't really exist. They are quasi particles and yet the best theory to describe vibrations in solids is this phonon idea. That should give you an idea that just because a model gives you correct results doesn't mean that its mechanically true.
Perhaps only the strongest forces in nature can be accurately described with a particle model while the much much weaker force of gravity cannot because even though forces may be fundamentally like how Einstein described, they overwhelmingly look like virtual particle interactions at there current strength values. FYI one of the biggest reason graviton theories don't work is because of gravity having such a weak coupling strength.
Pic not related but made me laugh hahaha
Generally, it you have a rectangle of solid material, and bang one end, and then bang it again twice as hard, and then 10 times as hard; likely the vibrations that travel through the material will be different each time.
They will also be an exact quantity and quality.
Phonon is not an existing particle object; but a characteristic quality trait that particle objects can possess.
A surface wave on a pond is not an object, it's a characteristic quality a still pond can possibly have, and they will differ depending on how hard you punch the pond.
All forces are two or more forces maybe thats why.
All things are constantly being forced;. And then whenever something new enters the system, that which is doing the constant forces, exhibits itself differently in its reaction to the new thing that enters it's system
It feels like it all comes down to space and the overlapping dimension that is time
have richard feynman explain it
Demonic magic
>Answer this
I'm also mainly wondering if you place photon detectors and the best most subtle detection systems around the center point in between the Npole and Npole, and push them closer and closer;.
What is that detector detecting, as the magnets are pushed closer and closer? Any thing at all, an changes?
And you push and push the repulsing magnets closer and closer, until they are 1 inch away, these are the strongest magnets, held by the strongest hydraulic machines in place; what is being detected energy wise in the center of them?
none of your business
Certain metallic crystals will align at low temperatures and all shoot virtual photons in the the same direction creating attractive and repulsive forces with other metals that have crystals that are either already aligned or can be aligned by exposure to a magnetic field.
If it was explained to you in terms of something else, you'd ask, "yeah, but how does THAT work?" ad infinitum
>Seriously, how the frick do they work?
I want to embed magnets into a high-permeability material to multiply the repel-forces between them.
Permalloy & metglass is expensive. so I'll use something cheap.......
How many times stronger is the repel-force if I use Grade-AA MILD-STEEL?
material = Grade-AA MILD-STEEL
permeability = 1000
Another problem is blocking the Magnetic-Pole-return-path...
Do any of the configs in pic solve the problem?
Why do field lines have arrows like that, field lines dont move like a tug of war rope do they?
Also your color coding, is the grey the South pole and red North?
What is your goal to achieve?
>Why do field lines have arrows like that,
to show orientation & polarity
>field lines dont move like a tug of war rope do they?
see pic
>Also your color coding, is the grey the South pole and red North?
yes
>What is your goal to achieve?
to have embedded magnets that still work.
Cool, embedding strong magnets, and then drilling holes in the embedding, do the field lines pour out the holes?
Your pic, is that suggesting the field lines do move like a train moves? There is constant flow?
And there is no way to concieve or what field lines actually are? Like particles with mass and relative density and quantum spin, and cohesion to neihbors,
Field lines are made of virtual photons? Are all virtual photons the same shape and size, where do they come from, they are generated and destroyed? When I the evolution of big bang did they all form? What came first the photon, the electron, or the virtual photon?
Are photons; virtual photons that are extremely forced to move a certain way?
Are photons, virtual photons that are squeezed out of their place in the field line?
Is em radiation, collapsed or tangled field lines?
Like field lines exist, and you can poke them and they wobble a little bit but return to their place, but if you poke them quick and hard enough they spazz out?
>Cool, embedding strong magnets, and then drilling holes in the embedding, do the field lines pour out the holes?
>Your pic, is that suggesting the field lines do move like a train moves? There is constant flow?
>And there is no way to concieve or what field lines actually are? Like particles with mass and relative density and quantum spin, and cohesion to neihbors,
>Field lines are made of virtual photons? Are all virtual photons the same shape and size, where do they come from, they are generated and destroyed? When I the evolution of big bang did they all form? What came first the photon, the electron, or the virtual photon?
>Are photons; virtual photons that are extremely forced to move a certain way?
>Are photons, virtual photons that are squeezed out of their place in the field line?
>Is em radiation, collapsed or tangled field lines?
>Like field lines exist, and you can poke them and they wobble a little bit but return to their place, but if you poke them quick and hard enough they spazz out?
I just wanted my embedded magnets to work & increased force in one specific direction, like a Halbach array does.
I wasn't interested in all the rest of it.
inb4
Is he wrong? The answer is literally “it be like that” which isn’t very conclusive but describes plenty of other weird shit that happens
Non meme answer:
Magnetism is more or less at the bottom of our knowledge; it’s fundamental.
Imagine if you’re trying to learn more and more about how something works or what it is made of.
• What is this table made of? Wood
• What is wood made of? Cells
• What are cells made of? Molecules
• What are molecules made of? Atoms and the forces that hold them together
• What are atoms made of? Protons, neutrons, electrons and the forces that hold them together
• What are protons made of? Quarks and the force that holds them together.
Eventually when you go small enough you get to the bottom, which either means we know it is the smallest thing or we don’t know what is smaller.
As far as we know now, the bottom is made of a few fundamental particles and a couple fundamental forces. Magnetism is one of those forces.
Physicists actually know quite a bit about how they work, meaning what happens when you put particles and forces that interact with each other together (for example, see flabbergasted1’s link on how particles and forces come together to make an “everyday” magnet). But nobody really knows why they work, or if that’s even a meaningful question.
What ultimately ultimately ultimately causes a magnet to fly across a vacuum of space to connect to another one?
Bosons
How do they do it? What ultimately forces what to force what to force what?
Bosons are field-particles impacting the compass needle.
Fields are Boson particles.
Answer these please:
>mass of...
go look it up.
>field-line properties & characteristics
consider what makes each type of field..
consider when that possibility first existed...
It was then..
>consider what makes each type of field..
Virtual photons? EM essence?
>consider when that possibility first existed...
When does cosmology say the virtual photon field lines crystalized into place in the evolution of big bang?
Dunno, what did it say when you looked it up?
Said they had no clue really
then go back
>>>/x/
Deformed trajectories of its particles.
>lorentz force: qvB (B magnetic field, v= particle's speed, 1: particles charge)
>metal atoms have moving charges because of spin
> spin movement causes the alignement of charges to the magnetic field lines
do i have to be more specific?
What are field lines made of?
What's the mass of the particles that make up the field lines?
How many degrees of freedom do the field lines have?
When in the history cosmology of big bang were field lines made?
Can field lines be created or destroyed?
Do field lines have quantum spin and magnetic moments?
>What's the mass of the particles that make up the field lines?
How many particles exist in a field line section of length of your choosing?
am I allowed to imagine that if enough electrons are spinning in a specific path, other elctrons that interact with them are knocked into taking the same path?
They just do.
Electromagnetism is fundamental force in our current understanding.
Maybe
if electromagnetism was fundamental then electroweak wouldn't have ever existed
>electroweak
why?
i mean, they are just the same force
what's up with the nuclear force tho, why the heck that happens, how, what cause it, where it come from, where the energy come from
Let's try to simplify everything first, and if that doesn't work, add another idea, if that doesn't capture it all, add another idea.
Electrons, quarks, gravity field, em field
Why is that not enough to explain everything?
Electrons, quarks, gravity/em field
Even simpler version.
What's the most blatent thing that can't be explained with only these few physical ideas?
Answer
Electrons changing directions n shieet
The real question is how do a lot of these forces begin? Where do they come from? Electicity is energy, but where the frick does gravity come from? Like yes, it’s described as a force relation between two objects, but how does gravity ”start”? Why don’t things just float linearly?