In 1775 it seems what is now known as South Ossetia was part of Georgian Kartli.
When and why did Russia create South Ossetia?
Is this an annexation tactic? Do any other empires do this?
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South Ossetia
In 1775 it seems what is now known as South Ossetia was part of Georgian Kartli.
When and why did Russia create South Ossetia?
Is this an annexation tactic? Do any other empires do this?
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CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
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France, the US, Italy, Germany, Serbia/Yugoslavia, Poland, Japan, Brazil, Turkey, Armenia, Romania, and Greece have done it. The UK, Finland, Croatia, and Bulgaria have atleast tried. There are probably countless other countries that have also done it or tried it, especially if you were to include states that no longer exist as this tactic stretches as far back as the Romans, if not further still. Disguising your expansion by setting up a totally not artificial puppet state is a very neat way to claim that you dindu nuffin.
Nobody has done it as much as the Russians though, and I'm not just talking about Putin.
It is standard divide & conquer tactics that all Empires use. On that note, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Donbabwe, Luganda and troonyistria are all artificial creations of the Russian Federation.
South Ossetia and Abkhazia have their own people unlike the others
The divide was initially just an imperial administrative quirk, right until USSR. South Ossetia was part of Georgian kingdom, but mountainous people living there were de facto independent folk. They started migrating north and gradually integrated in the imperial lands around Vladikavkaz, before lands of previous Georgian kingdom even became a province of its own. Vladikavkaz and nearby lands later became known as North Ossetia.
South Ossetia in modern times became a breakaway republic of Georgia, because if Georgia can secede from USSR on nationalist grounds then so can Ossetians secede from Georgia. The conflict went in favor of Ossetians in the 90s, Georgia was undergoing civil war at the time. Georgia wasn't managing on its own, which is why they invited Russia to freeze the conflict. Russia recognized South Ossetia as an independent state after the 2008 war.
All taken from here:
Seems the Russian narrative differs from the Georgian one.
For example this is the Georgian narrative on the Ossetian migrations
This video does not support the Georgian narrative. It is true that the Georgians controlled territory north of their fiefs but didn't have a strong hold over these territories, but none of these territories are part of modern day south ossetia.
Georgian Narrative is these Ossetians gradually migrated southward to these fiefs. The issue is these territories have georgian churches and towers and fortresses, but ossetians claim they created all these things. Even territories more recently annexed in 2008.
Sure enough, it's likely historically unjust, but the territory of South Ossetia is just a territory of their ASSR that they were unwilling to give up after the end of the union.
In imperial times Ossetian district of Tiflis governorate was merged with Gori uezd in 1859, which is probably how the borders of South Ossetia during the Russian Civil war ended up being the way they are
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiflis_Governorate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gori_uezd
Ok but these people did not appear out of nowhere. They are clearly descendants of the Alans.
For example this is the fief of one of the families.
Census records showed no Ossetian presence in these parts in the late 18th century. But they claim they built this church and all the surrounding infrastructure, they celebrate a pagan holiday here at the church.
The Church was adorned by the frescos in georgian writing of this family. However they came the church is alan. They recently destroyed all the frescos in this church so the picture shown above is now gone
You chose the West, you'll reap what you sown.
Here is another Georgian Church which they claim is Alan. Here is what it looks like after Russian/South Ossetian Annexation
Yes, Ossetians migrated there hundreds of years ago but the modern Georgia has never held real control over it.
Even when Georgia was a soviet republic they didn't have control, South Ossetia was an ASSR in the Georgian SSRA. After independence it immediately declared independence from Georgia and militarily defeated them without Russian aide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiri_Monastery
Here is another monastery which they claim they also built. And their propaganda.
So the issue is what infrastructure in South Ossetia is actually Alanian or Ossetian prior to Russian Annexation? It seems they are just claiming Georgian Churches, Fortresses and Towers for themselves and making up false narratives
I try to be unbiased, but when I read the Georgian perspective it makes sense.
Whenever I read Ossetian propaganda. It's that they've always lived in South Ossetia, they built everything there, Georgian Princes had no control over it.
For example in the Southern Parts of South Ossetia now Znaur and Tsinkval areas. Ossetians were not in the census records until the 1800's. However they claim all the infrastructure and claim Georgians had no control over them. But this does not seem to be the case.
In the more northern parts which they arrived earlier, the census records show they were subjects of the Georgian lords of these areas.
It seems that the Georgian Princes only had trouble controlling these areas after Russian Annexation when the Principalities were abolished and these princes became Princes in name only and landlords without personal armies.
It really doesn't matter who was there first, the ossetians are there now
I even acknowledged that Georgians were there first. I was making the argument that it exists because Georgia hasn't had any actual control over it for over 100 years
I don't deny that South Ossetia exists. I guess this could be compared to Americans slowly colonizing the lands of indigenous native americans.
But the strange thing in itself is just how poorly written the propaganda is. If they want to claim a 13th century Georgian Church was built by them in the 4th century. There is nothing we can do. But I think my biggest annoyance is no one in South Ossetia is concerned with historical accuracy.
The Ossetians loyalties lie with Russia and they are now asking for Russian annexation. If this annexation goes through, it is interesting to see what has led up to this.
Arabs built Tblisi. It was a minor settlement before that. Are you going to hand it over to the arabs?
Bolsheviks created it in 1922 and used it ever since for geopolitocal interests. Russia keeps doing the same today.
Georgia did control it in 1918-1921 and some parts of it until 2008 too, also 3k Soviet/Russian detachment aided separatists trought entire conflict.
There is a type of chauvinism in the Caucasus where everyone claims to be the strongest and bravest warriors. Abkhazians and Ossetians deny they had any help. Georgians are just weak cowards.
It's kind of like pretending Donbas was fighting themselves.
Of course they deny it but reality is different. Russia is the only reason those artificial entities exist today. Both separatist groups were squashed by Georgians in 1920 and came close to doing so again in 90s before again, Russians came to help. Georgians on the other hand almost always dominated Caucasus thanks to their martial prowess and aristocratic elite. Thats the historical fact.
>came close to doing so again in 90s before again, Russians came to help
You're omitting the fact that in the 90s Russians came to help the Georgian side.
Im not because they didnt, ever since 1989 russian constantly took separatists side and provided them with equipment, manpower, officers to organize them, navy, airforce. Putin made it far more organized.
>Georgians on the other hand almost always dominated Caucasus thanks to their martial prowess and aristocratic elite. Thats the historical fact.
Is it gogi? I seem to recall Persians and Turks always ruling you.
The amount seething it caused proves my (and OP's) point right.
>Russia is the only reason those artificial entities exist today.
Russia is the only reason why you're not larping as a turk like your laz cousins
>Georgians on the other hand almost always dominated Caucasus thanks to their martial prowess and aristocratic elite.
Lmao the Bagratuni were armenians who ruled over you
No they didn't Armenian cuck. Most of Georgia such as Tbilisi was never part of, but the Kingdom of Georgia ruled over all of Armenia.
The Bagratuni dynasty were an armenian dynasty. No one else denies it except georgians for obvious reasons
Bargatuni were Persian.
Nta but both are true. Their claim to fame is their zoroastrian heritage. Armenian culture and zoroastrianism are alien concepts to churkas, which makes the claim that bagratuni was georgian untrue
They were christian. Leave it to Persians to be even worse larpers than churkas
Only an Armenian cuck would believe religions change DNA. Everyone from the Caucasus ruled you. Persians ruled you for 2000 years and Georgians 500 years.
>Georgians on the other hand almost always dominated Cauca-ACK
thas rite we wuz kangz of the kavkaz n shieeet until the evil russian devil took it away from us!
Why are gogis are so annoying
Statehood is a 20th century concept. Ossetians inhabited that region as long as churkas have.
Abkhazians do it because abkhaz are churkas themselves. Ossetians don't brag about what they did, theyre just rightfully are happy to not be under churkoid yoke even if Russia is equally parasitic as churkas are.
>Ossetians inhabited that region as long as churkas have.
If they had been in South Ossetia as long as Churkas. They wouldn't have been peasants and would have actually built something. They migrated 300-400 years ago in the northern parts. And 100-200 years ago in the southern parts.
This is not the same as Abkhazia which was controlled by Abkhazian Princes and lived there just as long as Georgians
I want an ironclad argument from the Ossetian side.
Not only were they given lands they had colonized in recent memory. They were given lands they hadn't even colonized.
It's because Russians read Russian sources on these matters. If you watch the entire video. It blames Georgia for the war. Nothing about Russia building up forces in South Ossetia and provocations.
In the future when that guy makes a video about Ukraine, he'll blame Ukraine for starting the war. It is clear how Russian governments operate. They're not subtle imperialists. It was the same regime that did both conflicts
> Georgians on the other hand almost always dominated Caucasus
When putin decides to chimp on these haughty downies it's gonna be funny watching all the squealing from a far
>this thread
I hope iran, Turkey, or Russia annex georgia or partition it into three for each party. Always pathetic when a minor state starts acting chuddy
Turkey will annex you again or maybe Azerbaijan.
Caucasus monkey flinging thread. Yes Georgians please recite the full book of grudges Ossetians committed on you, including the appendix "on the lies within the Ossetian book of grudges". Don't dare to omit a single stolen goat.