To help you understand my psyche, I completely agree and feel like The Underground Man.
So far, thanks to you IQfy, I've been convinced that as pointless as it is, doing the right things will release happy brain chemicals which will make existence more pleasant. I do believe in God too, so I do have morals starting from there but I don't think he wants me to be employed, married and etc.
Thanks to anyone that will reply.
Also "Man search for meaning" was too irrational for me. I don't want a book to make me inspired or feel motivated, I want philosophical arguments.
Do you think Hegel is a good start?
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take antidepressants, they really do help despite similar people like you trying to pretend contrarily.
oh but you want to suffer rather than be happy?
then there's really no arguments about it to be made.
you want problems, because problems = content and content = media. it's stupid.
I've taken them for 8 months and feel more like a human without them. Just yesterday I was at a Jazz festival where I spoke to a dude I haven't seen in an year. He has started antidepressants and had crazy eyes. He legit looked crazy and I pity him. Not to mention that they are more likely to make you suicidal and increase the all-cause premature mortality by 33% in healthy adults.
So, there's some risk. Alternative is you continue feeling miserable for the rest of your life. Like it or not, there's a cure, even if it's not perfect.
>more like a human without them
What does this even mean? How do you know what it's like to feel less or more than human? It's just a vague description to highlight the insistence that it doesn't work that is necessary for you to justify your future intense philosophical undertakings.
Why do you want to argue with me? Why do you want force your viewpoint on me? Antidepressants are not a benefit in my experience.
yes and because your mind is too complex and your suffering too deep to be handled by mere antidepressants, you must undertake this hero's journey to the black heart of philosophy...this is what you sound like
What? No, I never said that. I don't think I am at all special. If you objectively look at antidepressants, you'll see that psychiatrists are still arguing whether they should be prescribed so freely as they are quite damaging to the body, they don't know how they even work, they don't know the effect of serotonin regulation on a million-years-old organ system and most of all - exercise has been proven to have a greater result than them.
By the way, I don't think I am depressed, anon. To me, it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself or maybe you hated your own contrarianism and are now going the other way of full conformism.
If you objectively look at antidepressants, most psychiatrists widely agree that they're a great treatment for depression. antidepressants don't preclude exercise, exercise is not pleasant for a depressed person, it might be effective in keeping it at bay, but while you are depressed, it doesn't feel good.
>By the way, I don't think I am depressed, anon.
If you feel like the underground man, you are depressed and you should continue taking antidepressants. Btw what are you taking antidepressants for 8 months for if not for depression? You can't even keep your facade together for two posts.
>take drugs to solve your perceived problems
ideologically opposed
>Alternative is you continue feeling miserable for the rest of your life. Like it or not, there's a cure, even if it's not perfect.
painting ones options as take antidepressants or suffer is ironic
you could take antidepressants for the rest of your life and it wouldn't be that bad. tolerance increase is totally negligible, not like if you get addicted to alcohol, benzodiazepines etc. availability is good. there would be nothing wrong with making it a permanent cure.
>you could take antidepressants for the rest of your life and it wouldn't be that bad
if you're willing to take that risk, go ahead. no amount of words on this forum will make you understand how much they suck for some people. there is no catch all solution
moron, don’t talk about shit you know nothing about, you will have a shitload of problems after taking them for 20+ years, just one example would be fricked teeth
none as adverse as living like the underground man or having your hard drug supply compromised due to money or other issues. they are the best solution, and it's still very likely that there'll be no issues even in long term use.
> it's still very likely that there'll be no issues even in long term use
Just stfu guy, you clearly don’t know shit
youre just mad because antidepressants are a threat to your romanticized identity, which clearly, has no basis at all.
>u mad! TV man say pill good
>bleat bleat bleat! antidepressant bad because literature man talk about life is suffering
>questioning authority bad!
>i question authority based on acquiring new authorities from literaturedaddies who knew about suffering whee whoo
>strawmanning
try /misc/ if you want sad malleable losers
curious which meds worked for you?
>youre just mad because antidepressants are a threat to your romanticized identity
this is like saying a legitimate schizophrenic is LARPing because shamans exist
You're mistaken pill boy
>just take more meds goy
Heroin works better than any antidepressant
there's addiction problems and availability problems and tolerance problems and purity problems. antidepressants is a far less harmful solution. you would pick heroin over antidepressants only out of romanticization.
> there's addiction problems
Unlike permanent antidepressants?
>and availability problems
Not really
>and tolerance problems
Doesn’t need to be taken daily
>and purity problems
easyly checked
>antidepressants is a far less harmful solution.
Lmao no
>you would pick heroin over antidepressants only out of romanticization.
No, you would pick it if you had a brain and could afford it
Midwits like you think antidepressants are some effective safe pill that works like you are told it does and have never taken heroin but think you are in a position to advise people
You are being much more, much more ridiculous than him, you can't possibly claim that heroin is on par or better than a medically approved drug.
> a medically approved drug
Until it’s not
>you can't possibly claim that heroin is on par or better than a medically approved drug.
we won't know for 50+ years when we can reflect on the works of men who took opium versus men who took antidepressants
>we won't know for 50+ years when we can reflect on the works of men who took opium versus men who took antidepressants
again more proof for my theory: you only take opiates to have a problem/object to think about as it's something that's possible to insert into media as some kind of content, unlike antidepressants. your mind is ruined by media, including literature. it's stupid, it's just fricking stupid.
>you only take opiates to have a problem/object to think about as it's something that's possible to insert into media as some kind of content, unlike antidepressants
first part is true but unlike antidepressants? if you think taking antidepressants and talking about them isnt its own subculture, look at what youre doing
its not a subculture its anti-subculture. its the death toll of all subcultures.
> you only take opiates to have a problem/object to think about
Wot?
>Unlike permanent antidepressants?
Yes, because your tolerance grows.
>Not really
Yes because it's more expensive and you have to work for it. Work is bad by definition.
>Doesn’t need to be taken daily
Then what does it help, moron? Those days you won't take it would still be depressing.
>>and purity problems
Not actually that easy since almost no reagent test shows all the possible rc:s, of which new ones are created daily. In addition, you have no way of knowing the strength of the product.
> Then what does it help, moron? Those days you won't take it would still be depressing.
This shows why your opinion is not worth anything on this issue
stick to what you know
lmao you got mad at my previous analysis of problem --> content --> media/identity and now you can't even refute me dumbfrick.
No one is mad kid, you just demonstrated to everyone you have zero understanding of how the drug works and your opinion is irrelevant on the matter
>After effects 1.5 - 3 hours
why are u so stupid as to try to lie with this easy-to-find information?
>t professor Wikipedia
Kek guy you are coming off as stupider and stupider
Take the L
>take antidepressants
Shocked to see this reatrdation IQfy. If anti-depressants correct for chemical imbalances in the brain, why do they never test your brain for those chemicals? Oh, it's to turn you into a misery slave for pharma until you die.
thats what you need to tell yourself, isn't it
this is a really weird sense of superiority you have. why? do you think that, because your faulty wiring is fixed by duct-tape, you're somehow an authority on the matter? why do you insist on feeling superior for taking mind-altering drugs?
>why do you insist on feeling superior for taking mind-altering drugs?
no, best is to not take them at all, obviously. but if you have depression, just take antidepressants rather than read shitty books, problem solved, shut up, nothing to talk about anymore.
>but if you have depression, just take antidepressants rather than read shitty books, problem solved, shut up, nothing to talk about anymore.
shit i guess taking drugs is the only way to feel better, i'll keep eating like shit and stop exercising and these pills will make it okay right
truth
> shut up, nothing to talk about anymore.
Oh look. Pill boy thinks words can't help. Shocking. Read the Gospels and repent.
Which survey confirmed you were sad boy? Was it the one with a 10 or 5 point scale? Sorry for your low dopamine, survey saves you're now a slave to the system.
True. So why medicate it at all? This anon is advocating for misery slavery so you can be an atheistic materialist mush without God or Christ and not want to have a nice day, even though you should desperately be miserable and horrified at yourself with that worldvirw.
The brain is not understood well enough. It's more like trial and error but the underlying mechanisms are not known.
Tell me you’re moronic without telling me you’re moronic
lol u didnt even understand what i say and how it relates to notes from the underground the book. stop reading dumbfrick.
>make moronic argument
filtered
>i censor opinions i can't handle
was already evident but good brag
only a true 80iq would come up with such a quip, stop posting, stop reading, just focus on manual labor
hows that filter working
In my personal experience SSRIs are like taking painkillers for a broken leg. Yes they stop the pain but if you don’t do something to fix your leg it’s pointless. They can help you be functional but you have to do the work of fixing whatever is broken inside. The pain from depression could be from a legit chemical imbalance in your brain but more than likely it’s your soul telling you something is wrong. The best place to start is to fix your life style eating, sleeping, exercise, journaling, meditating, cut out addictions etc and then do some deep introspection.
Here is my take on them.
SSRI can work, sometimes, but their effect on the organism is not fully known and has been shown as unhealthy, although slightly.
If one has no friends, wife, job he likes, hobbies, healthy lifestyle then first get those and if you are still depressed then look into meds. Because then you truly have some genetic problem. Alternately, if one doesn't have genetic problem but is so beaten down by the lack of the aforementioned human necessities, then meds can help for a kickstart to get them.
There's no book that can cure your lack of will to live because a worthless homosexual that aimlessly walks the Earth unless somebody points him towards a direction is what you are and a worthless homosexual that aimlessly walks the Earth unless somebody points him towards a direction you will stay.
Unless, of course, you decide to change that.
Nicely written, I like your style. Come on dude, tell me an author.
Come on dude, tell me an author.
Come on dude, tell me an author.
I would suggest you authors but you want the personal question of meaning treated in an impersonal and rational way which negates almost all of the existentialists.
I understand. So all of the authors you know that deal with the question of meaning are irrational and personal? (sorry, couldn't resist it)
An psychiatrist prescribed them to me for a panic disorder. Where is the data about psychiatrists agreeing? I'm confident I have done a lot of research on the subject.
>So all of the authors you know that deal with the question of meaning are irrational and personal?
Yes.
https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2017147
>Come on dude, tell me an author.
I'm telling you, you need to do the OPPOSITE of looking for an author. You need to stop looking for outside validation and start looking into the deepest recesses of your bowels. Humans don't decide to live because somebody told them to, they live because they crave being something in this world. Once you have done some soul searching you can look for authors to strenghten or even challenge your worldview, but first you need to figure out what, given the unfortunate circumstances of your existence (aka the things you can't change) is what you REALLY want to make of the limited time you have been given, as cliche as that sounds.
And don't forget to never neglect the body, if you forget that you're a being made of flesh and sweat your mind will betray you sooner or later.
Okay, I understand. But the pressure you put by emphasizing that life is finite only exacerbates my propensities for indecisiveness.
sounds like you need to learn to trust yourself more
you will fail at times as everyone does. But you learn to not fear the failures
Good, this made me confident to continue doing what I feel is right at the moment. I guess doubt is natural always in the beginning.
Indecisiveness is a psychological mechanism aimed at avoiding suffering, you don't act because you are afraid of that the consequences might be negative. But consider this: if you never act you are also suffering: regrets pile up, opportunities are wasted, depression sets in and life passes you by. By not acting you are causing the very thing that your behaviour is aimed at avoiding! Internalizing this, if you ever manage to, is going to really grind your gears, and you'll realize that, as paradoxical as that sound, the best way to avoid suffering is not to stand still, but to move. A mistake can often be mended, a regret cannot and time lost is lost forever.
I think I internalized it the moment I read it! Thanks! Now I feel ever-more confident to keep trying. It is better to have tried and failed that to have never tried. So simple, weird how I've never realized it.
To add, I didn't act not because of what the negative consequences of acting could be, but because I thought that I am needlessly, stupidly increasing my suffering through not denying the will to live, through trying and acting. But I was wrong, as not acting is very painful and the pain of regret is ever-bitter.
Plotinus
read oblomov, understand that you have the disease of oblomovka, cease looking for books to read under the premise of "curing" your "nihilism" and instead focus on actually participating in society instead of passively watching your life pass you by
You’re not much of a nihilist if you believe in truth and God. Pessimist? No one can change your outlook on life but you. If life seem very bleak to you, embrace despair. No one has ever shown that man was meant to be a cheerful or happy animal.
Read Camus' Cycle de l'absurde.
nietzsche
nietzsche has been made irrelevant by antidepressants
nietzsche is the last thing his sooky tortured underappreciated intellectual ass should be reading
Reading more philosophy isn't going to help you because you will interpret it through the filter of depression.
The underground man suffered because he refused to see value in others and saw himself as above others.
You need to get outside and take action, learn to socialise with a wide variety of people, without cynical judgement. Develop true empathy. As a human, it is in your nature to build connections, and your brain rewards you for it.
Well, your last argument really further convinced me to continue trying. I have already started the ball rolling and have a few social contacts that I can reach out to, am exercising and have long ago developed empathy for both mankind and the animal kingdom. I nevertheless think that I can finally appreciate positive philosophy.
kek
legit study, many citations, good point. I've seen more studies that claim otherwise tho, thus the uncertainty around them does not outweigh the little benefits I had with them.
Depression is good because it forces you to find happiness outside yourself.
no, depression is good because it is a state of disillusionment; it is good because it comes from a focus on truth.
You can’t under things anon
Pynchon
Tolkien
My thread is now an argument whether antidepressants are good or not. Still glad I made it,some anons offered good rationale.
Boy this board is pathetic
Sickness unto Death, Screwtape Letters, Mere Christianity, unironically Chesterton and St John Henry Newman's Apologia Pro Sua Vita.
Thank you, anon
Additionally, I'd add Eithor Or if none of those are truly fitting. Keep in mind, meaning will always be generalized to an infinite thing, but you need to figure out the nature of that thing. Check out books which are written by Christians too to get an appreciation for what Christianity reveals about us as people. Contemporafies like Ed Feser, David Bentley Hart, Ross Douthat, and Vishwal Mangalwadi have all written incredible books about contemporary issues and how they relate. Obviously, the Gospels are crucial here too, as they are a source code and are basically just Lord Jesus literally debating with others.
>77
I don't believe in coincidence.
Gospels it is. Always wanted to.
Blessed
F. Gardner helped me with my depression and nihilism. His works all seem like a meme, and perhaps they are, but there's just something so pure in F. Gardner's literary pursuits that it feels me with newfound optimism and meaning.
Might start with that one. What is it like?
cure you from what? The truth?
The dhammapadda.
You are confused about perspectives.
You think what you found is a truth denying all truths when it’s just another perspective.
You think you think.
Learn to sit down and chill.
Learn to observe causes and conditions of your thoughts.
>I've been convinced that as pointless as it is, doing the right things will release happy brain chemicals which will make existence more pleasant
That’s just refined hedonism. You do the right thing for the right thing not for the „happy chemicals“.
That term in itself is a huge oversimplification. Do you mean endorphins? Dopamine? Serotonin? All of those fulfill vastly different purposes. I guess endorphins are the closest to true happy chemicals. They are not really a reward. Rather a means to an end. They kill your pain so you can fulfill your task.
>I do believe in God too, so I do have morals starting from there but I don't think he wants me to be employed, married and etc.
In WHAT god do you believe?
>I don't want a book to make me inspired or feel motivated, I want philosophical arguments.
What do you want the arguments for?
People here are taking time out of their day and giving you sound advice and you‘ve become so attached to what you think will save you that you are willing to die on that hill and ignore that sound advice.
Like a child being told soup is best eaten with a spoon but insisting that you teach him a way to do it with a fork because the fork is so useful for eating steak and it looks so nice and it spent a lot of time learning to use the fork.
Perhaps the most convincing intellectual argument that would help you become aware would be reading about evolutionary processes.
Your internal states mostly serve evolutional purposes or are byproducts of those. You may think you’re doing something to feel a certain way but the cold and mighty force of evolution makes you feel a certain way so that you do something.
What does „not nihilism“ feel like? What are thoughts associated with „not nihilism“? When do you feel/think them? What could the evolutionary purpose of „not nihilism“ be?
Don’t get lost in the relativity, try to figure out what’s relative to what and how.
Lmao sophist core here.
>you think you think
No. I think. You think you think because you're deluded and live in wretched lies.
Moby dick
I pray to God to help me, but I don't believe in God. ;.;
If you don't believe in him you will not be answered
>OP ask for book recommendations
>whole thread about SSRIs
Man frick yall
I still got many good recommendations. The SSRI spam was by no more than 3 anons.