I have been recommended Tao Te Ching by a coworker to help with my depression.
Can someone explain Taoism to me? Is it just about not caring about stupid crap and finding enjoyment in the simple things in life?
Taoism
I have been recommended Tao Te Ching by a coworker to help with my depression.
Can someone explain Taoism to me? Is it just about not caring about stupid crap and finding enjoyment in the simple things in life?
Philosophically, you're better off just reading it. It's enjoyable. Spiritually, it's all about Qi or Chi and the energy of your body and the universe—a lazy, poor summary, I'll admit, but don't waste your time on it as religion. As philosophy, well worth it.
I meant to ask about what it means philosophically, not religiously. At least that is how it was recommended to me as my coworker says that I can be a bit high strung.
I did read some of it and that is basically what I got out of it in general aside from a few things like how morality is just a way of getting you to act a certain way.
>what it means philosophically
Anxiety & Type 'A Personality' are both temporally dissociative, not Present much less 'authentic' or self-possessing.
>how morality is just a way of getting you to act a certain way.
Transactional and compelled relations are not properly ethical, still less moral. Wearing many hats and having situationally determined and appropriate personas is a necessary skill not in anyway infringing on (you) YourSelf-- a good actor knows when they're acting, the good liar knows the truth, the missile knows where it is not at all times.
>a bit high strung
What is in you sphere of action and direct concrete objective effectuation is quite limited until the subtle element is appreciated, in hand, and worked with and not against. Forcing things has unintended consequences-- logistics wins wars, energy management dogfighting in planes.
The Tao cannot be told. The Tao that can be told is not the Tao
When you speak, it is silent. When you are silent, it speaks.
The interpretation is loose. In other words you have to become one with universe. How you do that is entirely up to you, in the old days taoists sat in the caves or mountain tops or under trees seeking some sort of wordly inderstanding, others consumed mercury pills etc. How you want to reach your goal of becoming one with universe is entirely up to you, you have to find your own way (your own path or follow in the footsteps of others), even the goal of becoming one with universe is loosely defined and it's basically for you to come with your own definition what that means or use existing ones.
>don't waste your time on it as religion
It was only considered a religion to keep the ideas alive. It originated as a philosophical school of thought first and foremost, and only became a religion much later.
Read this book instead. It covers much more of practical Daoist thought, and not just poetry.
Traditional Chinese Medicine is very good. I take the herbs described in picrelated, and am doing amazing physically. I have more strength and energy than before, and am more calm. I can easily walk 30 miles in a day without food if I wanted to. And the best part is I will only get more and more capable the longer I take these herbs. I'm also at a point with my meditation that I can pump chi into my LDT easily. This practice, combined with the herbs, has let my body naturally heal itself from past injuries. I exercise 6 days a week with no real need for a rest day except to socialize.
>I take the herbs described in picrelated
where do you buy them?
Local Chinese herb shops. They're cheap too. Just read all the effects of one (1) herb. https://www.allthingshealth.com/en-my/glossary/solomon-seal-rhizome-huang-jing/
In the book the 3 herbs are those right?
>Li Qingyun shook his head and said, “I’ve never eaten nor
found out about an elixir of immortality. We used herbs to
allay our hunger, and these were usually He Shou Wu and
Huang Jing.’ There was also Baiji, which is best if eaten right
after being picked, and eaten raw. Chew it slowly. This is the
best way to maintain good nutrition.”
>After that, Yang Sen referred to the book The Origins of
Plants . He Shou Wu and Huang Jing really can
prolong life, allay hunger, reduce weight, and improve energy,
but Baiji only can
treat wounds and lung bleeding.
and the daoist herbs :
>The old priest laughed and said, “Why are you asking this?
Didn’t you get it already? Ginseng, Lingzhi, and
Hui
are medicines of longevity.
>In the book the 3 herbs are those right?
Yes, those are the herbs. Also Goji berry is one of them. Li Qingyun himself says that having a calm mind free from worry and sense desires is more important than the herbs anyways. You don't want to get too excited, happy, sorrowful, angry, greedy, bitter, or lustful. All of those emotions waste energy. The book also mentions that you eventually won't need meditation, but I meditate for a specific technique not mentioned in this book.
>pseudoscientific scam
It existed before modern science. If you've never felt your qi then frankly you should be quiet. I doubt you have the energy levels of an athlete like me.
Qigong is good, and the metaphysics are true. I do some Qigong still, but have practiced NeiGong more in the past. It is a more advanced practice than Qigong, and so rightfully gives stronger benefits. Like I said in above, it only takes me 5 minutes of pumping chi into my Lower Dan Tien to alleviate pain from minor sports injuries. You can deny it all you want, but until you feel the difference you won't understand it.
>>Yes, those are the herbs. Also Goji berry is one of them.
Can you detail the way you consume them? do you take all them every day or you rotate ?
For He Shou Wu and Huang Jing I put about 15 grams of the herb into a pot and bring it to a boil. After it's boiling I let it simmer for 30 minutes. After this I pour it into a cup and drink it as an herbal tea. I had stomach aches from using He Shou Wu, so I don't take that one anymore. For Huang Jing I put some monk fruit into the cup to balance out the bitterness. I try to take Huang Jing daily, but sometimes I only drink it 4-5 times a week. For Baiji I prepare it the same way, but only 5-10 grams instead of 15, and no monk fruit as it naturally has no taste. Goji Berries I just drink from a vial daily that you can buy at any Chinese supermarket or herb store.
I have not tried Ginseng, Lingzhi, or Hui. I have taken some other supplements, mainly from Ayurveda, in the past, and still take a few daily. The ones I take daily are Shilajit, Moringa, Spirulina, Gingko Biloba, and Rhodiola Rosea. An Ayurvedic herb I used in the past you might enjoy is 'Brahmi' which is good for memory and learning. It physically grows the dendrites in your brain.
>Qigong is good, and the metaphysics are true. I do some Qigong still, but have practiced NeiGong more in the past. It is a more advanced practice than Qigong, and so rightfully gives stronger benefits. Like I said in above, it only takes me 5 minutes of pumping chi into my Lower Dan Tien to alleviate pain from minor sports injuries. You can deny it all you want, but until you feel the difference you won't understand it.
Fair enough, I'm not opposed to trying whatever and will give it a shot.
Qigong is like Tai-Chi, but you can do it with less space. That's how I view it. I've done both in the past, and read a treatise on Tai-Chi to understand the theory behind it. Hard Qigong and Neigong is where I personally find the most benefits, but most people won't want to pursue either.
Here is an example of a 'Hard Qigong' Master. Most people, including me, will never reach this level.
Its a good read, short and extremely interesting, probably among the books that any gentleman should read
My edition also followed the two tao te ching by the zhuang zi, the lie zi, and the huainan zi. They are longer books but more practical to understand what taoism entails in real life, if you're interested
There are magical lines floating throughout the Universe
In order to absorb them you need to become a baby
When you become a baby, you attract those lines like a magnet and they flow through you
You harvest that energy and it extends your life
this =>
Tell me more
baby doesn't think about the past, present, or future. it's just a baby. since it has the power of only being itself it is in tune with the energies of the universe.
It's about intuition and flow.
chillax
Inhale the good shit and exhale the bullshit brother
Mair Translation. The notes will mostly suffice. You'd be better served by the Periphyseon for more discursive & clear cut reading in this vein, or picrel & The Ten Bulls below
Tao's the one of One and the One in/of many, holistic holos.
https://www.youtube.com/live/oy9BAxzu37k?si=PH-d20HVKionPq0d&t=1274
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Bulls
Taoism is a scam designed to lure in women with talk of bullshit energies which objectively makes it the most based philosophy. If all you're doing is reading then you're doing it wrong.
>anon doesn’t believe that by controlling his cum that he will retain his jing and lengthen his life
ngmi
What you’re talking about seems closer to the Zhuangzi than the Daodejing. The Zhuangzi is about how words can often obscure thinking and that many dichotomies like big and small found in language only exist as relative descriptors, not absolutes. By rejecting absolute distinctions, Zhuangzi claims you will become happier and you will also realize that things that seem useless can actually have value because purpose is relative to the situation. This lack of belief in absolute categories is also related to how Zhuangzi implies that any attempt at systematic thought which attempts to put an order on the world is futile and not conducive to flourishing.
I never really got what the Daodejing is talking about, but I think what this anon
is saying gets at what that text is interested in.
The Tao Te Ching is poetry, and as such no translation fully captures it. If you're not going to bother learning Chinese, at least compare multiple (proper, scholarly, without excessive liberties) translations.
Do you work with chinks?
Read the version with the commentary by Wang Bi, it's very accessible.
No thanks
Shut the frick up homosexual you're not OP
>I have been recommended Tao Te Ching by a coworker to help with my depression.
Your coworker probably doesn't know what taoism is either
It may be short, but as you grow and increase your wisdom, the tao reads differently each time.
Taoism outlines the fundamental nature of the universe and our relation to it and its relationship with us. It basically outlines how to understand the flow of life, and how to move with the flow of life effortlessly. This is achievable by emptying your mental space of all corporeal nonsense chaining you down. Life is reciprocity in motion.
Most of these responses are incredibly moronic and display total ignorance.
The Tao is a simple concept. The Tao is the essential nothingness, the unspeakable unknowable at the heart of all existence and non-existence. The Tao is that which cannot be spoken of or named. Even the name "Tao," is a mislabeling, it is an approximation.
Think about infinity. Think about how true infinity would also encapsulate the opposite of itself. The Tao is that. The Tao is all things and nothing, it is the line where all logic and sensation ceases to be differentiated from itself, and collapses into dust. Even by saying these things, simply by using words, I have failed to really describe anything close to the Tao.
So then, what is the point, especially if you are depressed? There is a sublimity and serenity in reflecting on the void, the Tao, because it can remind you that no one really knows who they are, what they are doing here, or where to even start. And therefore whatever you are doing, is probably not as bad as you think. Whatever ideas you use to justify bad actions and bad thoughts, are as meaningless as those you choose to justify good actions and good thoughts.
Therefore, everything is down to choice, consequence, and how these things make you feel. It's not that life is meaningless, it's that trying to find a meaning outside of yourself is meaningless. If you feel a certain way, that is enough. If something makes you feel bad, stop doing it. If it makes you feel good, keep doing it. You cannot change anything you've already done, but you can always control yourself in the present.
It is a way of gaining perspective. Much of our depression comes from losing perspective.
Nonsense.
I don't know much about Daoism but the little I do know completely changed my life. I will say there's a reason people use the word "flow" around it a lot and the Wikipedia article on it includes the article for "flow" as in the term programmers use to be in a zoned-in mental
state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
That's my understanding of it. The true sage is in a flow state 100% of the time. The Dao is many things but one way to think of it is you must follow your true nature. That means finding out exactly what you must do and executing. Once you find the right thing, it's easy though. They use the term 无为 or wu wei and my interpretation of that is that you never try hard at anything. But I still do difficult things. For example, when I'm running and it gets painful, I just separate myself from the pain and observe it from a distance. The pain is a separate entity to be observed, noted, understood and possibly even enjoyed. So I try without trying. I do without doing.
No idea if this interpretation would be kosher with the real knowers but it's definitely a thing many people say and a very helpful idea.
Also if you are wondering about the religious aspect, the short answer is that "Daoism" describes multiple things. On the one hand it's a philosophy possibly like those ideas I just mentioned, on the other hand it's a political outlook sometimes compared to libertarian hippies. For example I saw somewhere a Daoist argument that the only purpose of an emperor is to pick officials. He doesn't do anything else. He is only there to be a chooser of the right people. And historically there were Daoist young nobles who were chided for just running off and living in caves. Anyway as for the religious part: well that's a whole other beast because a lot of it involves stuff adjacent to traditional Chinese medicine, so you will end up seeing a lot of wacky stuff about what you should eat or do to acquire the right energies and a bunch of it is very grifty but YMMV. Even more confusingly, Chinese folk religion and Daoism are NOT the same but share similarities and are often confused, and then more confusingly again, there is "Red Daoism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_teachings
Taoism is overrated, only appeals to new age-y westerners who find it exotic and mysterious while completely misunderstood it. Taoism is theistic mysticism just like Neoplatonism and Advaita. Also they probably don't know the Dao De Jing text have been tampered throughout history, one of the biggest being that the title should have originally been De Dao Jing (德道經).
>The true sage is in a flow state 100% of the time
No. 無為而無不為 means it's an unmoved mover that is the center of everything while not participating in it personally. Just like a shaft in the middle of a wheel, it does not move itself but keeps the rest of the wheel moving.
It's not pantheism.
>Traditional Chinese Medicine
pseudoscientific scam
>No. 無為而無不為 means it's an unmoved mover that is the center of everything while not participating in it personally. Just like a shaft in the middle of a wheel, it does not move itself but keeps the rest of the wheel moving.
So is the true meaning of wu wei something like: cultivate perfection within yourself then just be, don't take an active part in affairs, and by doing this you will move the wheel? This would make sense given what Lao Tzu seems to say about so many people being meddlesome. That's quite obnoxious if it's the real meaning but I can see why it would be appealing. Gotta go live in a sick cave because frick my dad.
nope
this
anon got it right
Well
is still the less boring answer.
>It's not pantheism.
That is just your interpretation
Just read it. It's short. Nobody can explain it to you; the Tao cannot be spoken.
>the dao is not the logos
>the dao is not the brahman
>the dao is not the dharma
>the dao is not the wyrd
>the dao is not the elden ring
It very clearly is.
Fun fact, Chinese translations of the New Testament render "logos" as "dao". (I don't know how Greek translations of the Dao De Jing render "dao".)
https://www.pghcitypaper.com/columns/lao-tzu-and-the-quiet-self-care-of-cancel-culture-14974645
What do anons think of qigong etc? Practicing the slow movements etc. could be interesting/useful even if the metaphysics are bologna.
>telling coworkers about depression
why?
The only way to achieve happiness is to feel happy.
The only way to have enough is to feel contented.
Taoism has a shitload of gods depending on the tradition. Funny enough, the only exposure most people have in the west (or at least America) is that some Chinese restaurants have statues of various figures from this faith.
I remember when I was a kid there was a Chinese restaurant we went to and in the foyer they had a massive statue of a guy much taller than a grown man with a huge guandao (basically a glaive).
Those were just decorations, they didn't mean anything
Sure but iirc it had a religious look to it not just like normal statues so I assume it's some figure from Taoism or similar. Maybe it wasn't though. I can't remember exactly what it looked like/who it was supposed to be. Who has a giant glaive?
>massive statue of a guy much taller than a grown man with a huge guandao (basically a glaive).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guan_Yu
He's a deified figure from The Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
Probably most well known on IQfy as being a playable character in the Dynasty Warriors video games.
Yeah that seems like what I remember. Much cooler than Jesus or something. Christians would never have a nine foot tall hero with a weapon of war at their eating establishments.
Well of course it doesn't have to have a religious connotation either but the point stands.
>name says whose weapon it is
Consequences of alcohol to not realize this. Taoists are right. Don't drink.
>Can someone explain Taoism to me?
The 道 is the well of infinite potential with zero actualization that all things draw their existence from. Things spurt up from the 道, float around as actualization for a little bit, and then fall back in, rejoining the 道 as potentiality. While things are actualized, they draw potentiality from the 道, which increases their actualization. This potentiality used as a source of energy is Qi. Thus, as per literally every process metaphysics ever, you have the source of energy (the 道), and the energy (the Qi). The Ten Thousand Things (Ancient Chinese jargon for "the actual contents of the world") draw Qi from the 道 and thus continue to move, like how water flows through a waterwheel. If the water stops flowing, the waterwheel sits, rots, and eventually breaks down and falls back into the river: this is how literally everything works.
Broadly speeking, then, Taoism is 道ism: a vast series of methods on how to draw energy from the 道, and a vast series of philosophical and (pseudo)empirical systems mapping the movements of 道 and Qi. Ancient Chinese Philosophy was deeply concerned with this idea of 道, although different philosophers had different ideas about it. By virtue of being a pure potentiality, however, you can never actually grasp the 道. This is why Chinese philosophers, and increasingly Chinese Christians, disagree with the idea of Rabbi Yeshua bar Yosef being the 道 incarnate: if the 道 were localized entirely in a person then the entirety of reality other than that person would cease to exist. The 道, by virtue of being infinite potentiality, cannot be boxed in or contained, and words by their very definition box things in and contain them, separating "is" from "is-not".
Thus, 道可道非常道, lit. "way can speak not eternal way" ("道" means both "way" and "to speak", due to homophony leading to homography). We cannot contain, or describe, the 道. What we can do, however, is to describe its effects and affects upon the world around us. We can see what the 道 does as it flows through the world, and describe that. Thus, Taoism is 道ism, the description of what the 道 does. Taoism is thus not a religion like Abrahamism, nor is it a religion like Buddhism, but is rather more properly thought of as early Chinese correlative empiricism. Unlike the Western scientific project Taoism isn't interested in describing causes (as we already know the cause, it's 道, and we know that it's unknowable) but rather describing how the occurrences of the world correlate. This leads to, for example, the idea of the Wuxing, the Chinese 5-Elements theory that describes things as becoming and/or moving in one of five ways (water=wind, wood, fire, earth, and metal): by observing a thing, you can see which properties it exhibits, and thus know how it exists and how it will interact with the rest of the world. To that end, Taoism proper isn't a religion or a philosophy.
Having said that, there's two sub-projects, 道 教 and 道家, which are religious and philosophical Taoism. Philosophical Taoism is all about scholasticism and also includes stuff like external alchemy (the creation of potions and elixirs; you might have heard about potions of immortality or snorting ground up rhino horn to get a bigger penis: that is this), internal alchemy (meditation), Qi Gong and Tai Qi and various other methods of acquiring Qi via physical movement, and also sexual alchemy (tl;dr fricking in a way so as to live longer). Feng shui, mystic architectural practices, are also in this. The Taoist quest for immortality falls under here (tl;dr what if you could exist in such a manner that you continuously draw potentiality so as to remain actualized forever?). Religious Taoism, meanwhile, is all about interacting with the Gods, ancestors, spirits, and demons that also inhabit our world. In China the distinction is purely scholastic, there's no meaningful distinction between the two in Taoism as actually practiced.
>(the creation of potions and elixirs; you might have heard about potions of immortality or snorting ground up rhino horn to get a bigger penis: that is this
Are they doing this at the temples and monasteries a lot? I know some use divination/astrology like helping people pick their childrens' names but I saw an article by some guy griping that they are just becoming cheap hucksters now. They had some drawers with papers in them you can pay to get a fortune from and he didn't like it.
Are you asking me to give you a fake tao? What would be the point?
I breezed through the Tao Te Ching a while back and superficially it is pretty similar to stoic stuff, but with a little more of a "Seeing the big picture is beyond you as a human, so just like be yourself and accept everything else is doing the same"
But recently I've been given advised that by not looking at it through a mystic taoist lens (chi, cultivation, shamanism, that kind of stuff), I missed the point. So now I'm crawling through a gigantic commentary on the I Ching before I come back to it.
Nice. Being able to predict the future with yarrow stalks is cooler than just treating it philosophically anyway.