I was calling him a cat. Are you implying that "pussy," a word for cat, somehow refers specifically to female genitalia? That's very misogynistic of you. HR wants to see you.
I started listening to it, and Carmack is interesting, but every time Lex started talking I wanted to turn off the podcast until I eventually did. He's such a fricking idiot but he keeps wanting to share his dumbass opinions or try to incorrectly "clarify" something Carmack said.
I would much rather carmack be handed a list of questions/topics and he just talks about them for hours. The interviewer is a net negative to the podcast.
then why are there a bunch of fricking threads with the same linguistic patterns highlighting that it's a 5 hour video and that you need to watch it? the moronic OP didn't even disguise the repost image filename
>noooo you have to adhere to my preferred moronic memes all the time
We're talking about actual programmers, not schizophrenic lolcows that IQfy drove to suicide.
You are very obviously either a novice programmer or not a programmer at all. There is nothing inherently impressive about writing a compiler or operating system. Braindead CS student write them (or at least used to) as part of their appropriately named classes. Most actual programmers don't bother because there's no point in wasting the time on it, but most are also perfectly capable of it if they wanted to. There was nothing technically interesting within the OS or compiler that Terry wrote. Being written by a schizophrenic character was the only interesting thing about them and the only reason why anyone knows about them. But still, nobody uses them for anything serious because they're technically worthless.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There is nothing inherently impressive about writing a compiler or operating system. Braindead CS student write them (or at least used to) as part of their appropriately named classes.
You used to write very basic ones. Either a subset of c or lisp and a basic kernel that wouldn't even boot into a terminal. They don't even teach this anymore because it filters too many morons.
Writing a usable compiler, libc, and operating system by yourself from scratch is a massive undertaking. Getting to CS undergrad level is just the beginning and can be completed by anyone with 100iq+ in a few weekends.
Just because it's not practically useful doesn't mean it isn't impressive.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You used to write very basic ones
The ones Terry wrote were very basic. He spent a lot more time on them than most people would bother spending on worthless projects, so there may have been a large amount of useless features, but they were all useless and unimpressive nonetheless. >Writing a usable compiler, libc, and operating system by yourself from scratch is a massive undertaking
It's a massive amount of busywork. It's not particularly complex or novel or impressive. It's just a lot of shit to bash out that eats a lot of your time. Terry had the time to burn on it and was willing to burn it - that's the only difference between him and a typical mid-level programmer. >Just because it's not practically useful doesn't mean it isn't impressive
True, but nothing he wrote was impressive. It wasn't unimpressive because it was useless, it just happens to be both useless and unimpressive.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>there's no point in wasting the time on it
as opposed to game which are very worthwhile
Compiler/OS are far from hard but it's a CS class vs highschool algebra, no?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Terry wrote a compiler for HolyC IN ASSEMBLY
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There is nothing inherently impressive about writing a compiler or operating system.
Where's your operating system or compiler?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I've written a compiler
People write compilers as school projects
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I've written a compiler
For any recommendations for books? Preferably with an emphasis on practical/applied? I feel like Aho just like to talk in circles.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I recommend not reading books and using your problem solving abilities to figure out how to do things
2 years ago
Anonymous
I bet you're the kind of useless wienersucker that would throw a beach towel to a man that fell overboard.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He's not drowning
If you want to be a good programmer, learn to figure things out
2 years ago
Anonymous
>God I can't believe you can't innately figure out *insert subject...
That's what books help with.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I didn't chastise him for not being able to do it, I just recommended he try to do it on his own
It'll make you a better programmer, I assume that's the goal
2 years ago
Anonymous
So are people just supposed to pull concepts out of the the fricking ether? Books aren't knowledge, they are the bridge to it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You start with the problem, what needs to be done, then you start thinking about ways to solve that problem
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jesus fricking Christ, you're fricking useless.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Really? I made a compiler, which I actually use
All you can do is whine about being useless
2 years ago
Anonymous
I asked a question about learning resources and your reply amounts to "if you want to learn about compiler design you need to know about compilers"
2 years ago
Anonymous
My reply was figure out how to do it yourself
I didn't know anything about compilers
I figured it out
You should too, because it hones your problem solving skills, which make you a good programmer
2 years ago
Anonymous
Bruh, I don't even know where to frickin start which is why I'm looking for a book.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Neither did I dude, have some fricking initative
I thought you said you'd read one already anyway
I'll give you a hint, take your source code, turn it into an array of tokens, then turn that array of tokens into a tree that represents your language (abstract syntax tree), then turn that tree into whatever you're targetting, bytecode, assembly or just interpret the tree
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I'll give you a hint, take your source code, turn it into an array of tokens, then turn that array of tokens into a tree that represents your language (abstract syntax tree), then turn that tree into whatever you're targetting, bytecode, assembly or just interpret the tree
2 years ago
Anonymous
So you do know where to start. What are you complaining about?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>What are you complaining about?
The little things. Its always the little things.
2 years ago
Anonymous
not that guy, I know how to do this because I've read a book. but why are you implying this shit is somehow intuitive? I imagine the average programmer would imagine the process is roughly chars > tokens > assembly, but not have any idea about ASTs or how to write decent parsers and assemblers. The only way I can see you figuring these things out in a reasonable time frame is by googling, at which point reading a book is just better.
you aren't going to learn 1% of what the dragon book teaches you by just wildly googling around
2 years ago
Anonymous
When you sit down and actually think about how it should be done, you'll figure out ASTs on your own. I did. I guess I made my programming language in a few months? With only a bit of prior experience in working with languages. It's a good learning experience
2 years ago
Anonymous
post your programming language
2 years ago
Anonymous
heres some code
2 years ago
Anonymous
let's assume that you are smart enough to just "figure out" everything by yourself, you are still dumb enough to assume that everyone else is as smart as you are, so please shut the frick up, your advice is worthless for the vast majority of people that would be better off by just reading a book, doing the exercises in it and making a small personal project (you know, like how most people actually learn instead of "muh figure out")
2 years ago
Anonymous
your ability to figure things out is what makes you a good programmer, and making a compiler isn't that hard
copying stuff out of a book has no value
2 years ago
Anonymous
>copying stuff out of a book has no value
Anybody that is successful in this field has high levels of intuition, however its useless without kicks in the right direction.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Bullshit, I only read one programming book in my life when I was 8 years old
2 years ago
Anonymous
most people figure out that it's easier to learn with a book/mentor
God you keep fricking whining about nothing
Maybe if you stopped for a few moments you'd be able to figure things out for yourself
not even the same anon, you should have figured that out before replying
2 years ago
Anonymous
not even the same anon, you should have figured that out before replying
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it's easier to learn with a book/mentor
You didn't learn though. Someone else did the learning for you and you just copied them. Of course it's perfectly valid to do this if you're just trying to get the job done, but if you're writing a compiler I assume you're doing it as a learning exercise to make yourself better, so figure it out yourself if you actually want to improve
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You didn't learn though.
nice gay meme from IQfy, gay
passing down knowledge by writing it down or mentoring is literally one of the core features of being a human, actual geniuses write books all the time, so why would they do it if they would reach the conclusion that people should just "figure it out" instead? to me it seems like you don't get the concept of passing down knowledge so this discussion is pointless anyways, just have your (you), the rest you can figure it out
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the rest you can figure it out
You could write a book but he wouldn't read it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's not about the knowledge, it's about honing your problem solving ability
2 years ago
Anonymous
I have no dog in this fight, and as a current CS student I totally agree most people in my school write code/practice solving problems like 0% of their time outside of school work. However, Carmack notes in this interview multiple times reading magazines or books which helped him. Would you say that was a bad idea? Or was the usefulness that those old zines provided not the ideas themselves, but the excitement and inspiration to code?
I do get the feeling you're underselling Terry Davis a bit to try to make your point, but I don't take Compilers until the fall, so I guess I'll see how cake it is my last semester.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I think the best way for beginner programmers to learn is to literally slam their head into a brick wall trying to solve problems without anything telling them how to do it. This is a frustrating experience but it will make you good at programming. It's how I learned, it's how people like John Carmack learned, because back then we didn't have the internet and we had to figure things out on our own. When you actually know how to program and you're doing work trying to solve real problems, then of course you would read reference material. But that's the same thing as doing tutorials out of books. I also think John Carmack does way too much mental masturbation and navel-gazing these days
>it absolutely will
Most developers are working on distributed data-intensive applications. It isn't the 80s anymore. Nobody compiles things using cmdlets. >Building your program isn't programming
Going to meetings isn't programming. Resolving JIRA tickets isn't programming. Building your app isn't programming either. What's your point? If you self identify as a programmer, you're a 3rd world street shitter without a doubt. >Do you even know what the frick you're talking about
I have a masters in computer science from UT Austin and 11 years working full-time at various startups, FAANG, and unicorns. Yes, I know what I'm talking about.
If you've been working 11 years and your masters in CS is the only thing you have to brag about you're not a good programmer
2 years ago
Anonymous
>But that's the same thing as doing tutorials out of books
not the same thing, I meant
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's how I learned, it's how people like John Carmack learned,
They didn't slam their head against the wall, they soaked up as many resources as they possibly could. And when those resources grew in complexity, so did their knowledge and the output from that knowledge.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>hey soaked up as many resources as they possibly could
Not many resources on programming games back then
Most of it you had to figure out yourself
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Not many resources on programming games back then >Most of it you had to figure out yourself
And when those resources grew in complexity, so did their knowledge and the output from that knowledge.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Derp, meant for
>hey soaked up as many resources as they possibly could
Not many resources on programming games back then
Most of it you had to figure out yourself
2 years ago
Anonymous
Your personal ability defines your output as a programmer, your inherited knowledge is secondary and much less important
2 years ago
Anonymous
>your inherited knowledge is secondary and much less important
The more inherited knowledge you have in your toolbox, the more able you are to gauge your personal ability. Purposely foregoing knowledge is nothing more than hobbling yourself.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That makes no sense
You know your personal ability regardless
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You know your personal ability regardless
Jesus fricking goddamned Christ. You either have no sense, no real world experience, or you're a troll. If you're #3, good job because I took the bait. Frick. You.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I have 28 years of experience
2 years ago
Anonymous
And I have 28.1.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I have 29 years of experience and I think programming is moronic. Learn from books.
This has devolved into both of you just throwing a tantrum because you don't like what I'm saying
I am actually being serious, if you disagree then you can argue about it, pretending I'm a troll is a waste of time
2 years ago
Anonymous
>pretending I'm a troll is a waste of time
Who's pretending?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You. It's cope. I'm being serious. Maybe I'm saying it in a way that's inflammatory, but I'm not trolling
2 years ago
Anonymous
>read about CS theory is worthless >no I'm not trolling >I'm just like John Carmack :^]
2 years ago
Anonymous
reading about CS theory as a beginner is worthless. If you want to be a good programmer, then program. Restrict your information, figure things out on your own. You can learn CS theory much later
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Reading about algebra as a beginner is worthless. If you want to be a good mathematician, then develop your own theory of mathematical formulae.
2 years ago
Anonymous
programming isn't math, but yes, I've heard famous mathematicans say the same thing
2 years ago
Anonymous
>programming isn't math
Do you know what an analogy is? >I've heard famous mathematicans say the same thing
Then hopefully your massive IQ can help you parse out why it's shit advice for the average person.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you've an "average person" then you should go into webdev, you have no business making a compiler
2 years ago
Anonymous
>average people can't make compilers
This is a cope. >you should go into webdev
Is this is the part where you tell me your favorite linux distro?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>This is a cope.
He said it, not me. I treat people as if they're intelligent. If you want to say "no, I'm too stupid to be like the smart people" then I'll treat you like the moron you want to be
2 years ago
Anonymous
What're you even babbling about at this point?
2 years ago
Anonymous
follow the conversation thread
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not reading all that. Is "he" Terry Davis? In which case, I refuse to believe you've ever worked in software at a company worth shitting at. Terry was a mentally ill homebody who hacked together a mediocre OS and a superset of C. If you're impressed by that, you've got no right being smug about anything. You look up to a mid dev whose only claim to fame is his fear of Black folk.
2 years ago
Anonymous
if you aren't going to read what people are talking about then don't reply
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you're gonna scapegoat my unwillingness to read through hours of you debating in circles as your excuse for conceding the argument, then don't reply.
2 years ago
Anonymous
We aren't talking about Terry Davis moron
2 years ago
Anonymous
Doesn't matter. I never debated against the authority of the person you namedropped earlier in the thread. I disagree that reading is bad and that compilers are the ultimate indicator of competency in devs. You couldn't defend those arguments beyond saying that it worked for you. You bringing up Terry would have just been a cherry. Your insurmountably moronic mindset is the sundae.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why the frick are you trying to have an argument without even reading what the person you're talking to is arguing about
Do you have a mental illness?
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you overheard someone say "I like to frick dogs" midargument, would it really matter which internet celebrity they were inspired by?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You have no idea what I said, I didn't say compilers were the ultimate indicator of competency, if anything it's the opposite, they're easy to make
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah they're easy to make because you made one without reading a book and reading is dumb and programming is about programming not reading. What a complex worldview. Have fun maintaining legacy systems.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not sure what any of that has to do with maintaning legacy systems but ok
2 years ago
Anonymous
Because thinking "learning from books is bad" is the most government-employed 50k/year shit I've ever heard.
>50% less
sure
He's right. Ignore the truth if it makes you feel superior
2 years ago
Anonymous
book educated programmers are the code monkeys making low amounts of money because they aren't actually doing any problem solving, they're writing enterprise code or maintaining it
2 years ago
Anonymous
>book-educated devs don't make money
You've never stepped foot in a tech hub, I take it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
well yeah, there's a bubble where any fricking moron can make lots of money if they land the right job
2 years ago
Anonymous
>never worked in a tech hub >has an opinion about how little money certain devs make
Opinion discarded. Also >"fricking moron can make lots of money if they land the right job"
How many DP hards have you solved? Since any moron can work in Mountainview, CA, why don't you prove it by showing you can pass a phone interview there?
2 years ago
Anonymous
what the frick is a 'DP hard'?
2 years ago
Anonymous
The difference between you and me is I could have your job without effort. You'd need to grind leetcode and study system design for half a year to even make it to the onsite, and something tells me you wouldn't get the interview in the first place.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don't have a job you clown
This is rich, I'm getting talked down to by a wagecuck
2 years ago
Anonymous
>this is rich
I am. TC is 465k. I work remotely in my house in a LCOL area. I'm 30. Post your stats though. I enjoy a good larp.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>TC
i don't agree with that other guy but is it really necessary to pull a giftcard-american move?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes europoor.
I'm real proud of you son
I hate my dad.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm real proud of you son
2 years ago
Anonymous
such as bootcampers, yes
2 years ago
Anonymous
>book educated programmers
walter bright and brian kernighan are always talking about muh books
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You look up to a mid dev whose only claim to fame is his fear of Black folk.
It wasn't phobia it was disgust.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Shut up new grad b***h. I wipe my ass with your feelings.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I have 29 years of experience and I think programming is moronic. Learn from books.
2 years ago
Anonymous
29.01 here and no books. I learned solely from putting my penis in a serial port and feeling the 1's and 0's on my mushroom tip. Get rekt, fget.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If you've been working 11 years and your masters in CS is the only thing you have to brag about you're not a good programmer
What do you want? My github and linkedin? If you knew half as much about development as your smug mindset requires, you'd know that you NEED to read to be in this field. Do you ignore documentation too? How deep does the moron pit go?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you'd know that you NEED to read to be in this field
your idea of the field is much smaller than what the field actually is
2 years ago
Anonymous
Do you make points, or is everything you have to say baseless vitriol?
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're arrogant, you think your job represents all programming jobs
Stop being arrogant and I won't reply in kind
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You're arrogant, you think your experience is the same as everyone else's >There's no point in reading books because I was able to intuit compilers
What kind of autism is this
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you want to be a good programmer, program, don't follow tutorials from books
I didnt "Intuit" compilers, I fricking figured it out, that's programming
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're either a zero effort troll or an actual dunning-kruger moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not trolling
Maybe you don't like what I have to say but i have a basis to believe it
People lament the lack of "good programmers" today yet the amount of knowledge available to programmers increases
Knowledge doesn't replace experience
2 years ago
Anonymous
mmm, I get that I'm probably the biggest idiot here since I'm still at uni, but I think I get what the guy's saying. In some ways I don't think he's against books (or otherwise learning any way someone gathers knowledge). I get the feeling what he's saying is that most people's ability to solve problems has devolved due to having answers easily available to them. That seems like a net good until you get into fields/areas which do not have defined/explicit answers. I know before I switched from physics to cs this is talked about a lot more often, and physics youtubers even are more open about this, citing how much they think online resources are horrible for physics students.
I think the guy sort of words things sub-optimally, but I sort of see where he's coming from. I do think the tech world has changed to some degree, and for many programmers, the idea of CS has sort of shifted from 'physics' to 'engineering', where if you just want to be a webdev, the important skill to have is to be able look up quickly how to spin some thing 'x' up as quickly as possible; compared to say trying to create the digital UI for a fighter jet written in Ada for the government in 1992, the most important skill may have been the ability to come up with novel solutions because if your solution is well known enough to be documented anywhere, you don't want to use it.
I also may just be moronic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>most people figure out that it's easier to learn with a book/mentor
Gawsh, you're never gonna get gud like everyone in this thread with that attitude. Don't you know you're in the company of chads who individually are smarter than Lex and Carmack combined?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I get what you're trying to say, but the vast majority of people who become proficient in something have to study it with books or in a classroom setting. What's the use in rediscovering the wheel every time you hit a wall and need something basic like a compiler? There are already well-documented ways to design and implement compilers. Intuiting the process doesn't make you any better at compiling code, and you presumably spent longer on that than I did learning out of book.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>What's the use in rediscovering the wheel every time you hit a wall
Because that's what improves your problem solving skills and makes you a better programmer
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why stop at compilers? Why not question the Turing machine first? Or sequent calculus?
Why are you so obsessed with books?
Idk man, why is a filmmaker so obsessed with going to the movies
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Why not question the Turing machine first? Or sequent calculus?
you can if you want but it wont really make you a better programmer
2 years ago
Anonymous
Neither will writing a compiler. Most developers nowadays don't even compile their own binaries. Their IDE does it for them.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Neither will writing a compiler
It absolutely will >Most developers nowadays don't even compile their own binaries
Building your program isn't programming
Do you even know what the frick you're talking about
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it absolutely will
Most developers are working on distributed data-intensive applications. It isn't the 80s anymore. Nobody compiles things using cmdlets. >Building your program isn't programming
Going to meetings isn't programming. Resolving JIRA tickets isn't programming. Building your app isn't programming either. What's your point? If you self identify as a programmer, you're a 3rd world street shitter without a doubt. >Do you even know what the frick you're talking about
I have a masters in computer science from UT Austin and 11 years working full-time at various startups, FAANG, and unicorns. Yes, I know what I'm talking about.
2 years ago
Anonymous
CS student from post above you. What's a street shitter. not trying to make a joke. sounds funny though. How was UT Austin, might try to get a masters there, as I graduate this upcoming May.
I think the best way for beginner programmers to learn is to literally slam their head into a brick wall trying to solve problems without anything telling them how to do it. This is a frustrating experience but it will make you good at programming. It's how I learned, it's how people like John Carmack learned, because back then we didn't have the internet and we had to figure things out on our own. When you actually know how to program and you're doing work trying to solve real problems, then of course you would read reference material. But that's the same thing as doing tutorials out of books. I also think John Carmack does way too much mental masturbation and navel-gazing these days
[...]
If you've been working 11 years and your masters in CS is the only thing you have to brag about you're not a good programmer
That... seems pretty reasonable to me. I had a physics prof tell us a similar thing for learning the basics you kind of need to get the reps in yourself. When I was a sophmore I had seniors saying they felt I could program better than them, and i think it's just because I actually find the process fun. And to be clear, I am still a shitter, just not as ass as some others who have somehow already graduated.
2 years ago
Anonymous
School only tests your knowledge, not your ability to program. People can graduate CS programs and be terrible programmers. What makes a good programmer is just your experience, if you know how to program then the knowledge is easy
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why are you so obsessed with books?
2 years ago
Anonymous
God you keep fricking whining about nothing
Maybe if you stopped for a few moments you'd be able to figure things out for yourself
>carmack wrote a game engine in the 90s.
He did a lot more than that
>There is nothing inherently impressive about writing a compiler or operating system. Braindead CS student write them (or at least used to) as part of their appropriately named classes.
You used to write very basic ones. Either a subset of c or lisp and a basic kernel that wouldn't even boot into a terminal. They don't even teach this anymore because it filters too many morons.
Writing a usable compiler, libc, and operating system by yourself from scratch is a massive undertaking. Getting to CS undergrad level is just the beginning and can be completed by anyone with 100iq+ in a few weekends.
Just because it's not practically useful doesn't mean it isn't impressive.
>Just because it's not practically useful doesn't mean it isn't impressive.
It's not useful or impressive
terry wrote his own compiler, libc, and operating system.
carmack wrote a game engine in the 90s.
terry was not a good programmer. have you ever even read anything he wrote? templeOS has absolutely horribly written code and terry got filtered by basic shit like implementing a USB driver (not that his OS has much in the way of a driver model to begin with). he had no life and was working on it for 12 years. it's not impressive at that point, it's just expected.
Is this a good interview or is the interviewee a fricktard? I can't stand dipshits that never do research on their guests or have no background in a topic and ask stupid questions.
I'll watch it anyway because it's fricking my homie carmack
it's just a couple of memesters
that, or full scale state propaganda aimed at discredit Lex because some of his opinions don't suit the current narrative
After watching this Carmack is clearly getting senile. He actually believes Elon musk koolaid and thinks he's as good at programming as him, and thinks fully autonomous cars will be solved this year.
carmack is great, but i really don't see the AGI panning out. would like to be proved wrong i guess. lex is so fricking dumb though, i can't believe people listen to his podcast regularly
Doom 1 and 2 weren't even fricking 3D
I will never understand why people jerk this ugly homosexual off so much. People porting their games to shitty home consoles are legitimately more impressive than what they did
also there were similar non-3d implementations on consoles way before doom
my guess is, those edgy juvenile murdering games somehow clicked at a deep level with the american ethos
unironically yes, not that proud of it, should have worked hard today but spent 7 hours of my day watching it (got bored a little bit, paused, got distracted, came right back in)
lex is a midwit confirmed, incapable of having beautiful ideas a fricking parrot with a script in his hands
i liked the part where he lowkey shit on webdevs. one of my professors is an insufferable fintech bro who can't shut up about how colleges should stop teaching C++ because "it's outdated" and unironically talks about watching Fridman and Rogan. i can't wait to see the look on his face.
lex is a fricking braindead moron that asks the most babby philosophy questions and never goes beyond very surface level on anything.
he has done podcasts with greatest living minds and somehow managed to make all of these podcasts not contain a single sentence of value
a hard question on leetcode.com under the dynamic programming section. these are often given during gayMAN onsite interviews, although the standards have been dropping.
That is not durga sir
programmers are all homosexuals
say that to my face pussy
homosexualS
>cancels you
>pussy
ummmm that's problematic anon. you are implying that, by virtue of having female genitalia, one is weak. HR wants to see you.
I was calling him a cat. Are you implying that "pussy," a word for cat, somehow refers specifically to female genitalia? That's very misogynistic of you. HR wants to see you.
they look like they touch grass and have sex
thanks for the link, you fricking idiot, god people on this site are so fricking dumb
https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=!yt%20lex%20fridman%20john%20carmack
moron
>how do I use a search engine
Why were you even born
>can't find the link himself
oh the irony
I started listening to it, and Carmack is interesting, but every time Lex started talking I wanted to turn off the podcast until I eventually did. He's such a fricking idiot but he keeps wanting to share his dumbass opinions or try to incorrectly "clarify" something Carmack said.
on point. 5 hours of potentially decent 'content' rendered useless just by lex opening his mouth
Is there a transcript I can read?
you don't have 5 hours to waste?
I tried, but i fell asleep after 30 minutes.
>So what do you think about aliens?
>I’m not sure what you mean by that question.
>Like uhh uhhh the fermi paradox uhhhh
I would much rather carmack be handed a list of questions/topics and he just talks about them for hours. The interviewer is a net negative to the podcast.
this is like the tenth fricking thread, stop shilling your video
he has john carmack on his video moron, it doesnt need shilling
then why are there a bunch of fricking threads with the same linguistic patterns highlighting that it's a 5 hour video and that you need to watch it? the moronic OP didn't even disguise the repost image filename
have a nice day
>greatest programmer
>not king terry
go back
>noooo you have to adhere to my preferred moronic memes all the time
We're talking about actual programmers, not schizophrenic lolcows that IQfy drove to suicide.
terry wrote his own compiler, libc, and operating system.
carmack wrote a game engine in the 90s.
You are very obviously either a novice programmer or not a programmer at all. There is nothing inherently impressive about writing a compiler or operating system. Braindead CS student write them (or at least used to) as part of their appropriately named classes. Most actual programmers don't bother because there's no point in wasting the time on it, but most are also perfectly capable of it if they wanted to. There was nothing technically interesting within the OS or compiler that Terry wrote. Being written by a schizophrenic character was the only interesting thing about them and the only reason why anyone knows about them. But still, nobody uses them for anything serious because they're technically worthless.
>There is nothing inherently impressive about writing a compiler or operating system. Braindead CS student write them (or at least used to) as part of their appropriately named classes.
You used to write very basic ones. Either a subset of c or lisp and a basic kernel that wouldn't even boot into a terminal. They don't even teach this anymore because it filters too many morons.
Writing a usable compiler, libc, and operating system by yourself from scratch is a massive undertaking. Getting to CS undergrad level is just the beginning and can be completed by anyone with 100iq+ in a few weekends.
Just because it's not practically useful doesn't mean it isn't impressive.
>You used to write very basic ones
The ones Terry wrote were very basic. He spent a lot more time on them than most people would bother spending on worthless projects, so there may have been a large amount of useless features, but they were all useless and unimpressive nonetheless.
>Writing a usable compiler, libc, and operating system by yourself from scratch is a massive undertaking
It's a massive amount of busywork. It's not particularly complex or novel or impressive. It's just a lot of shit to bash out that eats a lot of your time. Terry had the time to burn on it and was willing to burn it - that's the only difference between him and a typical mid-level programmer.
>Just because it's not practically useful doesn't mean it isn't impressive
True, but nothing he wrote was impressive. It wasn't unimpressive because it was useless, it just happens to be both useless and unimpressive.
>there's no point in wasting the time on it
as opposed to game which are very worthwhile
Compiler/OS are far from hard but it's a CS class vs highschool algebra, no?
Terry wrote a compiler for HolyC IN ASSEMBLY
>There is nothing inherently impressive about writing a compiler or operating system.
Where's your operating system or compiler?
I've written a compiler
People write compilers as school projects
>I've written a compiler
For any recommendations for books? Preferably with an emphasis on practical/applied? I feel like Aho just like to talk in circles.
I recommend not reading books and using your problem solving abilities to figure out how to do things
I bet you're the kind of useless wienersucker that would throw a beach towel to a man that fell overboard.
He's not drowning
If you want to be a good programmer, learn to figure things out
>God I can't believe you can't innately figure out *insert subject...
That's what books help with.
I didn't chastise him for not being able to do it, I just recommended he try to do it on his own
It'll make you a better programmer, I assume that's the goal
So are people just supposed to pull concepts out of the the fricking ether? Books aren't knowledge, they are the bridge to it.
You start with the problem, what needs to be done, then you start thinking about ways to solve that problem
Jesus fricking Christ, you're fricking useless.
Really? I made a compiler, which I actually use
All you can do is whine about being useless
I asked a question about learning resources and your reply amounts to "if you want to learn about compiler design you need to know about compilers"
My reply was figure out how to do it yourself
I didn't know anything about compilers
I figured it out
You should too, because it hones your problem solving skills, which make you a good programmer
Bruh, I don't even know where to frickin start which is why I'm looking for a book.
Neither did I dude, have some fricking initative
I thought you said you'd read one already anyway
I'll give you a hint, take your source code, turn it into an array of tokens, then turn that array of tokens into a tree that represents your language (abstract syntax tree), then turn that tree into whatever you're targetting, bytecode, assembly or just interpret the tree
>I'll give you a hint, take your source code, turn it into an array of tokens, then turn that array of tokens into a tree that represents your language (abstract syntax tree), then turn that tree into whatever you're targetting, bytecode, assembly or just interpret the tree
So you do know where to start. What are you complaining about?
>What are you complaining about?
The little things. Its always the little things.
not that guy, I know how to do this because I've read a book. but why are you implying this shit is somehow intuitive? I imagine the average programmer would imagine the process is roughly chars > tokens > assembly, but not have any idea about ASTs or how to write decent parsers and assemblers. The only way I can see you figuring these things out in a reasonable time frame is by googling, at which point reading a book is just better.
you aren't going to learn 1% of what the dragon book teaches you by just wildly googling around
When you sit down and actually think about how it should be done, you'll figure out ASTs on your own. I did. I guess I made my programming language in a few months? With only a bit of prior experience in working with languages. It's a good learning experience
post your programming language
heres some code
let's assume that you are smart enough to just "figure out" everything by yourself, you are still dumb enough to assume that everyone else is as smart as you are, so please shut the frick up, your advice is worthless for the vast majority of people that would be better off by just reading a book, doing the exercises in it and making a small personal project (you know, like how most people actually learn instead of "muh figure out")
your ability to figure things out is what makes you a good programmer, and making a compiler isn't that hard
copying stuff out of a book has no value
>copying stuff out of a book has no value
Anybody that is successful in this field has high levels of intuition, however its useless without kicks in the right direction.
Bullshit, I only read one programming book in my life when I was 8 years old
most people figure out that it's easier to learn with a book/mentor
not even the same anon, you should have figured that out before replying
not even the same anon, you should have figured that out before replying
>it's easier to learn with a book/mentor
You didn't learn though. Someone else did the learning for you and you just copied them. Of course it's perfectly valid to do this if you're just trying to get the job done, but if you're writing a compiler I assume you're doing it as a learning exercise to make yourself better, so figure it out yourself if you actually want to improve
>You didn't learn though.
nice gay meme from IQfy, gay
passing down knowledge by writing it down or mentoring is literally one of the core features of being a human, actual geniuses write books all the time, so why would they do it if they would reach the conclusion that people should just "figure it out" instead? to me it seems like you don't get the concept of passing down knowledge so this discussion is pointless anyways, just have your (you), the rest you can figure it out
>the rest you can figure it out
You could write a book but he wouldn't read it.
It's not about the knowledge, it's about honing your problem solving ability
I have no dog in this fight, and as a current CS student I totally agree most people in my school write code/practice solving problems like 0% of their time outside of school work. However, Carmack notes in this interview multiple times reading magazines or books which helped him. Would you say that was a bad idea? Or was the usefulness that those old zines provided not the ideas themselves, but the excitement and inspiration to code?
I do get the feeling you're underselling Terry Davis a bit to try to make your point, but I don't take Compilers until the fall, so I guess I'll see how cake it is my last semester.
I think the best way for beginner programmers to learn is to literally slam their head into a brick wall trying to solve problems without anything telling them how to do it. This is a frustrating experience but it will make you good at programming. It's how I learned, it's how people like John Carmack learned, because back then we didn't have the internet and we had to figure things out on our own. When you actually know how to program and you're doing work trying to solve real problems, then of course you would read reference material. But that's the same thing as doing tutorials out of books. I also think John Carmack does way too much mental masturbation and navel-gazing these days
If you've been working 11 years and your masters in CS is the only thing you have to brag about you're not a good programmer
>But that's the same thing as doing tutorials out of books
not the same thing, I meant
>It's how I learned, it's how people like John Carmack learned,
They didn't slam their head against the wall, they soaked up as many resources as they possibly could. And when those resources grew in complexity, so did their knowledge and the output from that knowledge.
>hey soaked up as many resources as they possibly could
Not many resources on programming games back then
Most of it you had to figure out yourself
>Not many resources on programming games back then
>Most of it you had to figure out yourself
And when those resources grew in complexity, so did their knowledge and the output from that knowledge.
Derp, meant for
Your personal ability defines your output as a programmer, your inherited knowledge is secondary and much less important
>your inherited knowledge is secondary and much less important
The more inherited knowledge you have in your toolbox, the more able you are to gauge your personal ability. Purposely foregoing knowledge is nothing more than hobbling yourself.
That makes no sense
You know your personal ability regardless
>You know your personal ability regardless
Jesus fricking goddamned Christ. You either have no sense, no real world experience, or you're a troll. If you're #3, good job because I took the bait. Frick. You.
I have 28 years of experience
And I have 28.1.
This has devolved into both of you just throwing a tantrum because you don't like what I'm saying
I am actually being serious, if you disagree then you can argue about it, pretending I'm a troll is a waste of time
>pretending I'm a troll is a waste of time
Who's pretending?
You. It's cope. I'm being serious. Maybe I'm saying it in a way that's inflammatory, but I'm not trolling
>read about CS theory is worthless
>no I'm not trolling
>I'm just like John Carmack :^]
reading about CS theory as a beginner is worthless. If you want to be a good programmer, then program. Restrict your information, figure things out on your own. You can learn CS theory much later
>Reading about algebra as a beginner is worthless. If you want to be a good mathematician, then develop your own theory of mathematical formulae.
programming isn't math, but yes, I've heard famous mathematicans say the same thing
>programming isn't math
Do you know what an analogy is?
>I've heard famous mathematicans say the same thing
Then hopefully your massive IQ can help you parse out why it's shit advice for the average person.
If you've an "average person" then you should go into webdev, you have no business making a compiler
>average people can't make compilers
This is a cope.
>you should go into webdev
Is this is the part where you tell me your favorite linux distro?
>This is a cope.
He said it, not me. I treat people as if they're intelligent. If you want to say "no, I'm too stupid to be like the smart people" then I'll treat you like the moron you want to be
What're you even babbling about at this point?
follow the conversation thread
Not reading all that. Is "he" Terry Davis? In which case, I refuse to believe you've ever worked in software at a company worth shitting at. Terry was a mentally ill homebody who hacked together a mediocre OS and a superset of C. If you're impressed by that, you've got no right being smug about anything. You look up to a mid dev whose only claim to fame is his fear of Black folk.
if you aren't going to read what people are talking about then don't reply
If you're gonna scapegoat my unwillingness to read through hours of you debating in circles as your excuse for conceding the argument, then don't reply.
We aren't talking about Terry Davis moron
Doesn't matter. I never debated against the authority of the person you namedropped earlier in the thread. I disagree that reading is bad and that compilers are the ultimate indicator of competency in devs. You couldn't defend those arguments beyond saying that it worked for you. You bringing up Terry would have just been a cherry. Your insurmountably moronic mindset is the sundae.
Why the frick are you trying to have an argument without even reading what the person you're talking to is arguing about
Do you have a mental illness?
If you overheard someone say "I like to frick dogs" midargument, would it really matter which internet celebrity they were inspired by?
You have no idea what I said, I didn't say compilers were the ultimate indicator of competency, if anything it's the opposite, they're easy to make
Yeah they're easy to make because you made one without reading a book and reading is dumb and programming is about programming not reading. What a complex worldview. Have fun maintaining legacy systems.
Not sure what any of that has to do with maintaning legacy systems but ok
Because thinking "learning from books is bad" is the most government-employed 50k/year shit I've ever heard.
He's right. Ignore the truth if it makes you feel superior
book educated programmers are the code monkeys making low amounts of money because they aren't actually doing any problem solving, they're writing enterprise code or maintaining it
>book-educated devs don't make money
You've never stepped foot in a tech hub, I take it.
well yeah, there's a bubble where any fricking moron can make lots of money if they land the right job
>never worked in a tech hub
>has an opinion about how little money certain devs make
Opinion discarded. Also
>"fricking moron can make lots of money if they land the right job"
How many DP hards have you solved? Since any moron can work in Mountainview, CA, why don't you prove it by showing you can pass a phone interview there?
what the frick is a 'DP hard'?
The difference between you and me is I could have your job without effort. You'd need to grind leetcode and study system design for half a year to even make it to the onsite, and something tells me you wouldn't get the interview in the first place.
I don't have a job you clown
This is rich, I'm getting talked down to by a wagecuck
>this is rich
I am. TC is 465k. I work remotely in my house in a LCOL area. I'm 30. Post your stats though. I enjoy a good larp.
>TC
i don't agree with that other guy but is it really necessary to pull a giftcard-american move?
Yes europoor.
I hate my dad.
I'm real proud of you son
such as bootcampers, yes
>book educated programmers
walter bright and brian kernighan are always talking about muh books
>You look up to a mid dev whose only claim to fame is his fear of Black folk.
It wasn't phobia it was disgust.
Shut up new grad b***h. I wipe my ass with your feelings.
I have 29 years of experience and I think programming is moronic. Learn from books.
29.01 here and no books. I learned solely from putting my penis in a serial port and feeling the 1's and 0's on my mushroom tip. Get rekt, fget.
>If you've been working 11 years and your masters in CS is the only thing you have to brag about you're not a good programmer
What do you want? My github and linkedin? If you knew half as much about development as your smug mindset requires, you'd know that you NEED to read to be in this field. Do you ignore documentation too? How deep does the moron pit go?
>you'd know that you NEED to read to be in this field
your idea of the field is much smaller than what the field actually is
Do you make points, or is everything you have to say baseless vitriol?
You're arrogant, you think your job represents all programming jobs
Stop being arrogant and I won't reply in kind
>You're arrogant, you think your experience is the same as everyone else's
>There's no point in reading books because I was able to intuit compilers
What kind of autism is this
If you want to be a good programmer, program, don't follow tutorials from books
I didnt "Intuit" compilers, I fricking figured it out, that's programming
You're either a zero effort troll or an actual dunning-kruger moron.
I'm not trolling
Maybe you don't like what I have to say but i have a basis to believe it
People lament the lack of "good programmers" today yet the amount of knowledge available to programmers increases
Knowledge doesn't replace experience
mmm, I get that I'm probably the biggest idiot here since I'm still at uni, but I think I get what the guy's saying. In some ways I don't think he's against books (or otherwise learning any way someone gathers knowledge). I get the feeling what he's saying is that most people's ability to solve problems has devolved due to having answers easily available to them. That seems like a net good until you get into fields/areas which do not have defined/explicit answers. I know before I switched from physics to cs this is talked about a lot more often, and physics youtubers even are more open about this, citing how much they think online resources are horrible for physics students.
I think the guy sort of words things sub-optimally, but I sort of see where he's coming from. I do think the tech world has changed to some degree, and for many programmers, the idea of CS has sort of shifted from 'physics' to 'engineering', where if you just want to be a webdev, the important skill to have is to be able look up quickly how to spin some thing 'x' up as quickly as possible; compared to say trying to create the digital UI for a fighter jet written in Ada for the government in 1992, the most important skill may have been the ability to come up with novel solutions because if your solution is well known enough to be documented anywhere, you don't want to use it.
I also may just be moronic.
>most people figure out that it's easier to learn with a book/mentor
Gawsh, you're never gonna get gud like everyone in this thread with that attitude. Don't you know you're in the company of chads who individually are smarter than Lex and Carmack combined?
I get what you're trying to say, but the vast majority of people who become proficient in something have to study it with books or in a classroom setting. What's the use in rediscovering the wheel every time you hit a wall and need something basic like a compiler? There are already well-documented ways to design and implement compilers. Intuiting the process doesn't make you any better at compiling code, and you presumably spent longer on that than I did learning out of book.
>What's the use in rediscovering the wheel every time you hit a wall
Because that's what improves your problem solving skills and makes you a better programmer
Why stop at compilers? Why not question the Turing machine first? Or sequent calculus?
Idk man, why is a filmmaker so obsessed with going to the movies
>Why not question the Turing machine first? Or sequent calculus?
you can if you want but it wont really make you a better programmer
Neither will writing a compiler. Most developers nowadays don't even compile their own binaries. Their IDE does it for them.
>Neither will writing a compiler
It absolutely will
>Most developers nowadays don't even compile their own binaries
Building your program isn't programming
Do you even know what the frick you're talking about
>it absolutely will
Most developers are working on distributed data-intensive applications. It isn't the 80s anymore. Nobody compiles things using cmdlets.
>Building your program isn't programming
Going to meetings isn't programming. Resolving JIRA tickets isn't programming. Building your app isn't programming either. What's your point? If you self identify as a programmer, you're a 3rd world street shitter without a doubt.
>Do you even know what the frick you're talking about
I have a masters in computer science from UT Austin and 11 years working full-time at various startups, FAANG, and unicorns. Yes, I know what I'm talking about.
CS student from post above you. What's a street shitter. not trying to make a joke. sounds funny though. How was UT Austin, might try to get a masters there, as I graduate this upcoming May.
That... seems pretty reasonable to me. I had a physics prof tell us a similar thing for learning the basics you kind of need to get the reps in yourself. When I was a sophmore I had seniors saying they felt I could program better than them, and i think it's just because I actually find the process fun. And to be clear, I am still a shitter, just not as ass as some others who have somehow already graduated.
School only tests your knowledge, not your ability to program. People can graduate CS programs and be terrible programmers. What makes a good programmer is just your experience, if you know how to program then the knowledge is easy
Why are you so obsessed with books?
God you keep fricking whining about nothing
Maybe if you stopped for a few moments you'd be able to figure things out for yourself
>carmack wrote a game engine in the 90s.
He did a lot more than that
>Just because it's not practically useful doesn't mean it isn't impressive.
It's not useful or impressive
>compiler
literally an undergrad CS project
>libc
never implemented all of libc
>operating system
also an undergrad CS project
Post GitHub
terry was not a good programmer. have you ever even read anything he wrote? templeOS has absolutely horribly written code and terry got filtered by basic shit like implementing a USB driver (not that his OS has much in the way of a driver model to begin with). he had no life and was working on it for 12 years. it's not impressive at that point, it's just expected.
>Greatest programmer alive
>alive
Terry is dead tbh
Carmack wins vs terry cause he made some good vidya
Terry loses because he made shit vidya
Want to become famous?
Make something useful or good
Definitely not paid posting content on IQfy
Is this a good interview or is the interviewee a fricktard? I can't stand dipshits that never do research on their guests or have no background in a topic and ask stupid questions.
I'll watch it anyway because it's fricking my homie carmack
>5 hour long
Ain't nobody got time fo dat
>nobody got time
>posting on IQfy
No, because Fridman is awful.
What's with all the hate on Fridman?
Becuase you keep spamming your video on IQfy and IQfy.
it's just a couple of memesters
that, or full scale state propaganda aimed at discredit Lex because some of his opinions don't suit the current narrative
was that rape?
>born a manlet
>it doesn't matter how hard you try
Carm>ack
After watching this Carmack is clearly getting senile. He actually believes Elon musk koolaid and thinks he's as good at programming as him, and thinks fully autonomous cars will be solved this year.
>The greatest programmer alive
Wrong board
Go back fanboy
did his chink wife divorce him or the other way around?
He must be at least part machine as he was married to a asiatic for that long without seeking assisted suicide.
Old boomer still uses software written in 1998 for Windows 98
Fricking Yikes.
Has the sepples committee done any good since then?
rust exists,
just let that 40 year old bloated dinosaur die already
in all honesty the software that works better for me is the one that still works on that and onward .. so he might be into something
>The greatest programmer alive
who is the greatest not alive programmer?
carmack is great, but i really don't see the AGI panning out. would like to be proved wrong i guess. lex is so fricking dumb though, i can't believe people listen to his podcast regularly
Doom 1 and 2 weren't even fricking 3D
I will never understand why people jerk this ugly homosexual off so much. People porting their games to shitty home consoles are legitimately more impressive than what they did
also there were similar non-3d implementations on consoles way before doom
my guess is, those edgy juvenile murdering games somehow clicked at a deep level with the american ethos
Romero-Carmack's what's made Doom good anon
Quake is a better example.
no I'd rather watch 5 hours of anime
Someone should write a program that cuts lex gayman out of all his videos and re-uploads just the guests answers
Why yes. I do watch multihour long youtube videos. How did you notice?
>The greatest programmer alive
Why does he not work at NASA or the NSA if he's that good
unironically yes, not that proud of it, should have worked hard today but spent 7 hours of my day watching it (got bored a little bit, paused, got distracted, came right back in)
lex is a midwit confirmed, incapable of having beautiful ideas a fricking parrot with a script in his hands
This being IQfy and all, I'm not surprised at how this degenerated.
i liked the part where he lowkey shit on webdevs. one of my professors is an insufferable fintech bro who can't shut up about how colleges should stop teaching C++ because "it's outdated" and unironically talks about watching Fridman and Rogan. i can't wait to see the look on his face.
Have fun making 50% less than webdevs while working twice as hard.
>50% less
sure
lex is a fricking braindead moron that asks the most babby philosophy questions and never goes beyond very surface level on anything.
he has done podcasts with greatest living minds and somehow managed to make all of these podcasts not contain a single sentence of value
Maybe because he's an autismo with difficulty in social situations. Seems like a pleasant fellow.
LMAO
this grifting, low-energy brainlet has a CS degree? now i've seen everything.
> Happenings on Twitter.
No thanks.
I still want to know what a DP hard is
desi penis hard
a hard question on leetcode.com under the dynamic programming section. these are often given during gayMAN onsite interviews, although the standards have been dropping.
fridman is a bad interviewer and doesn't seem to actually know about computers
he tought carmack writing an entire game in assembly was due to his genius magic, meanwhile back in the day almost all games were written in assembly
>greatest programmer alive
>not pic related
you're set, fricking tripping OP
>Terry
>Alive
>Lex Fridman
Nah. Did you watch Carmack on Rogan too?
rogan's one was all about jujitsu or some shit. not really IQfy related