The medical industry has been pulled the wool over our eyes.
They only want to make money and scare you away from alternative treatment options.
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The medical industry has been pulled the wool over our eyes. They only want to make money and scare you away from alternative treatment options.
This is not a medical treatment for gender dysphoria, this is reinforcement of delusions. Your identity is forever tied to the sex you were born, whether you like it or not YWNBAW
pic unrelated
>This is not a medical treatment for gender dysphoria
It is though.
Rent free
>Rent free
Yes, I do have a working memory with lots of space. Transsexuals make a small portion of it, as I prefer to dedicate myself to other matters. Point being, for a person to be trans, it has to have a reference point, which is the sex it was born with. Call yourself a woman for all I care, but as long as one claims to be part of the LGBT movement, one is implicitly admitting that one is not a woman. Otherwise, one wouldn't feel the need to insert oneself in such discriminatory group, with its own flag and all.
>one is implicitly admitting that one is not a woman
Can you define what a woman is? I've had conversations about this a few times in the past and everyone seems to have a different definition.
Personally a woman for me is an individual that exhibits secondary sex characteristics that we generally associate with women (booba, voice, smell, bone structure, fat deposits, hair etc) which obviously varies but with enough collaborating data you can easily discern between a man and a woman.
One might naively associate women with their role in the reproductive cycle but there are numerous women incapable of bearing children so that definition does not compute.
Another flawed definition might include chromosomes but most people don't ask for blood tests or carry around a microscope to inspect these before they decide which pronoun to refer to.
A simpler, more intuitive approach (and the argument for trans people) is to separate hard biological sex and the social construct that is gender identity/expression.
Dont care much about the LGBT community but I can see where they overlap and why these groups might associate with each other for support.
For me a woman has a front hole. Report back when you chop off your dick.
Do you inspect every persons genitals before you refer to them as a man or woman?
In this case a person born with XY chromosomes that transitions early in their childhood is a woman.
>In this case a person born with XY chromosomes that transitions early in their childhood is a woman.
Nope. Don't be a moron.
Every cell in his body tells the real story: He's a man. So does his skeleton, his skin tissue, his eye tissue, etc.
Why are you so fricking delusional? What made you this way?
Your definition is flawed. Many women have masculine traits and many men have feminine ones. I doubt you run electroretinograms to determine what pronouns to use for people you just met.
>Why are you so fricking delusional?
It just makes sense to me. It's not even a hard concept to grasp. Im not delusional.
>how you raise a child and the things they experience might influence their gender identity
Im glad we can agree on something, and im surprised you changed your viewpoint. Congratulations.
hrt prevents masculine bone structure from emerging pre-puberty and also provides significant skin changes.
if you use these to determine pronouns, then you have probably affirmed a passing trans persons' gender identity without knowing it.
enjoy the cognitive dissonance homosexual lol
>Do you inspect every persons genitals before you refer to them as a man or woman?
Yes, unless I am there to frick them, I don't care whether they are men, women or whatever. I rarely use she/her or he/him when I refer to others. I use 'they' if it's a group. If singular, I either use their name, directly address them as 'you' or use 'it'. The proper thing-neutral pronoun. Because some of them may not even identify as human, as I try to be as inclusive as possible.
Dangerously based and post-human proof.
>In this case a person born with XY chromosomes that transitions early in their childhood is a woman.
>Im glad we can agree on something, and im surprised you changed your viewpoint. Congratulations.
Nowhere in there did I say social constructions define what female development is. Convincing little boys that they are little girls or even chemically castrating them just leads to degenerate development, and again, not womanhood.
Your definition of 'woman' and 'womanhood' included the experiences one might have for that particular gender.
These experiences are largely the result of the world reacting to them. If they transitioned early and pass as a woman, the world would react as if they are a woman, and thus they would experience the path of womanhood.
Please clarify your definition but it seems like we might agree on this.
>Personally a woman for me is an individual that exhibits secondary sex characteristics that we generally associate with women (booba, voice, smell, bone structure, fat deposits, hair etc)
that's a little superficial. sure, it's just your definition, but women had to go through female childhood, adolescence, adulthood, and all manner of situations along with it. some androgynous woman is still a woman despite not fitting into the sex characteristics very well.
or otherwise, a man who does a great job of convincing others of opposite sex characteristics still got there though a path that isn't ultimately womanhood.
there are always weird edge cases too, like intersex, but that doesn't make the rule.
adult human female
pulling out the ol socractic method of definitions
get this gayet a job at merriam webster!
im sure youve explore the entire bell cueve and have found srandard deviations from what is considered "the common female"
the entirety of the mammal kingdom should pat you on the back for such scientific dogmatism to taxonomy.
The concept isnt hard to grasp. The pronouns you use contain a payload of how you perceive that person. If you perceive them as a woman, you'll probably refer to them as a woman, regardless of their birth sex.
>Men masquerading as women very rarely actually look like women
Yes, transitioning takes time, money, effort, genetic luck and still many might not ever pass.
You must admit however there is a selective bias there because you wouldn't notice a passing troony as a troony, and thus your data set overwhelmingly contains non passing trannies.
Since you're posting on a mongolian basket weaving forum you're also regularly exposed to pictures of these unfortunate people posted by nefarious actors openly mocking their situation to gay op you.
this is not science
this is semantics
"does a rose by any other name smell just as sweet?"
Definitions are important and absolutely not semantics. Separating sex and gender identity is a simpler, more intuitive approach to the human condition. There is no secret homosexual agenda like pol tards want you to believe, just an overwhelming amount of moronic takes on both sides.
science doesnt believe in absolute definitions.
only functional ones.
gender is currently a butlerian term ment to exampine sex roles in society. and sociology goes on his not sci. the whole cognitive dissonance between sex and gender can be solved once we realise that males and females can do the same tasks with variable efficacy that often ends up giving us distinct averages at that point in time. so a dude who performs like a woman should becone a woman and a woman who performs like a man should become a man.
its all some scheme by people running society to get you into these tight little boxes called labels so they can control you better.
it is utter nonsense.
>does a rose by any other name smell just as sweet?
from what i hear they kinda smell like shit
we compartmentalize and simplify complexity with labels because we have tiny brains
its just easier to process reality if we can label things and conveniently ignore the rest before continuing to our next shift at the wagecage/goyslop meal/mindless 'entertainment'
obviously id love to fully understand the gestalt of the individuals i meet but that's impossible so i just use 'her' or 'him' and ask them further questions if they appeal to me and sadly never fully understand or know what they're feeling/thinking at any point in time until we part ways or die.
Correct, there is an open intersectionalist agenda.
There is no good or evil, only groups with different interests seeking to maximize their own relative power.
>if you're lied to, you'll be wrong
Wow. Amazing logic.
>Another flawed definition might include chromosomes but most people don't ask for blood tests or carry around a microscope to inspect these before they decide which pronoun to refer to.
Because in the vast majority of cases chromosomes are visually apparent. Men masquerading as women very rarely actually look like women, more often than not they look like men wearing makeup. If you somehow manage to actually pass all you've done is fooled others, which doesn't make you a woman. People with chromosomal abnormalities do not "disprove" the dichotomy either because they are by definition the exceptions that prove the rule.
>Can you define what a woman is?
Two X chromosomes.
Have you checked your mothers chromosomes to verify that she is in fact a woman?
If not, you should probably assume she is a man, and refer to her as such until verified.
Fricking moron.
can you imagine?
on the day you turn 18.
or the last words your dying mother tells you
or pehaps its through some accidental revelation
"you are adopted, im really a dude"
might drive one right into the arms of a sociopath who forces you to suck his wiener while cutting yours off.
Logically fallacious post.
explain
obviously the part about assuming its a man was a joke
Appeal to consequences. If it was my "mother", it would mean nothing and if said mother was not XX then it would follow she was not a woman. Your attempted refutation is logically nonsensical.
My argument was that if chromosomes define what a 'woman' is, but you don't rigorously ask for blood tests from everyone you meet to decide what pronoun to use, then you're being inconsistent and disingenous. I've never witnessed my mothers chromosomes, but I still refer to her as 'her', thus the argument for chromosomes falls apart.
>chromosomes define what a 'woman' is,
It isn't a matter of debate. It legitimately is the genetic prerequisite, a total sine qua non, without which there karyotypic anomaly (ideally aborted) or XY, a man. XX most simplistically and biologically explains what a woman is.
>but you don't rigorously ask for blood tests from everyone you meet to decide what pronoun to use
This is logically fallacious as expounded in profound detail to the post you just replied to above.
>being inconsistent
Appeal to hypocrisy.
> I've never witnessed my mothers chromosomes, but I still refer to her as 'her', thus the argument for chromosomes falls apart.
It doesn't and this is a strawman, a logically fallacious strawman, that you've invented and interjected and now declare rather than prove how it makes the antecedent premise fall apart.
>XX most simplistically and biologically explains what a woman is.
If you use the pronoun 'woman' to refer to anyone BEFORE inspecting their chromosomes you are being inconsistent and disingenuous IF you strictly believe XX chromosomes are required before utilizing the pronoun 'woman'.
I don't care if you actually believe this, I just want you to realize how silly the argument is when applied to normal every day interactions like discerning pronouns.
I dont really know how to simplify this any more than I already have. If it doesn't land you might be too stubborn to realize your own stagnation.
He asked define a woman, and I answered
>woman = XX
So far, all of your challenges to this premise have been logically faulty in their arguments and were called out, you shift the argument yet again and we're speaking about semantics now? This is a strawman and a convoluted one at that.
ok moron, you win
One has to recognize that the guy in picrel needs to have some balls to behave publicly at this level of homosexualery.
or the groomer behind the camera
I want to frick that troony because I'm gay and it's a twink, not because I percieve it as female.
That's cool and all but the difference is right there in the womb.
>gender dysphoria is cured by changing the shape of your body
that's like saying that anorexia is cured by lifting weights and gaining muscles lol
if your mentall illness is cured by changing something about your appearence then you should call it "body dysmorphia", nothing to do with gender
Gender dysphoria describes an internal gender identity that is incongruent with how they present externally. They can take pills and transition to close this gap (not completely, but it certainly helps)
Body dysmorphia has similar incongruence but in most cases even a positive change of these variables results in minimal satisfaction and harm reduction. If I could give them a pill to treat them, I would. wiener and Ball Torture and SSRIs can only get you so far.
>Gender dysphoria describes an internal gender identity that is incongruent with how they present externally.
so let me get this straight: gender and sex are different, but if I am a male that feels like a "woman" I need to become more like the other sex?
>gender and sex are different
>continues to confuse the two
brainlet
>I am a woman!
>but I feel bad because I dont look female 🙁
do tomboys also suffer from gender dysphoria or are you a simple ideologue who wants people to cut off their genitals and worsen their health?
I dont want anyone to cut off their genitals, and I would only recommend a tomboy transition if they are feeling dissonance between their internal gender identity and their external gender presentation. If this is the case and its severe enough, they'll probably seek HRT regardless of what is told to them.
Its entirely possible to live a fulfilling happy life as an androgyn, tomboy, tomgirl, trap, etc if that is what you wish.
what lies at the heart of being?
what gender is the ding an sich?
>if they are feeling dissonance between their internal gender identity and their external gender presentation
gender presentation doesn't exist, you are on the same level of moronation as christian conservatives.
a female born with a strong jawline that would prefer if it were weaker is not suffering from some gender dysphoria bullshit, they simply want a weaker jawline.
all your ideological baggage is making people moronic and dependent on dangerous drugs
>a female born with a strong jawline that would prefer if it were weaker is not suffering from some gender dysphoria bullshit, they simply want a weaker jawline.
I agree with you and cosmetic surgery exists. This has nothing to do with gender dysphoria.
I have no idea what point you're even refuting.
>I have no idea what point you're even refuting.
I am simply saying that taking hormones or having surgery has nothing to do with gender
Hormones and surgery allow someone to closer represent externally how they perceive themselves internally. This has a real benefit for a person quality of life, self esteem, confidence, relationships, etc.
Estrogen and testosterone are not dangerous, and are essential for both sexes to function.
Obviously you shouldn't recommend hormone replacement for minor cosmetic issues.
>Hormones and surgery allow someone to closer represent externally how they perceive themselves internally.
this is body dysmorphia, please email me when you can explain to me in which part "gender" kicks in.
this shit is no different than men who feel they should be buff so they take steroids to grow huge muscles
Nta but if they perceive themselves internally as male/female social role that’s precisely where gender kicks in
Either way people care way too much imo. Someone “changing” their sex impacts me just as much as someone getting a nose job
>if they perceive themselves internally as male/female social role
how does social role correlate with your exterior appearence?
I thought progressives rejected the idea that being a woman means looking a certain way and behaving a certain way
Does it really change anything though? Let’s say that I take cross-sex hormones and have surgeries just because of body dysmorphia.
I was born female, live my life as a male. I have facial hair and deep-ish voice and random people automatically call me “he”. So I basically have two options
>Throw a tantrum every time and tell people that akshually I have XX chromosomes and it’s all just body dysmorphia because muh birth certificate
>Call and consider myself male because it works better in all non-medical contexts and I have better thing to do than get into lengthy arguments about what a woman/man really is
>I was born female, live my life as a male.
what does it mean to live life "as a male"? can you impregnate a woman? because if you can't I really don't understand what it means.
from your description it seems to me you are simply accomodating close minded people who believe in gender and gender roles
>if you cant impregnate a woman youre not a man
Plenty of men have died childless throughout history. Great men. Are they no longer men because they failed to impregnate a woman? Or because they were infertile?
Are you actually a man if you have such a shallow definition of man? Or are you a fricking savage controlled by his lower instincts?
>doesn't answer the main question
>proceeds with his schizobabble
I’m pretty sure no one believes that “live as man” = “be able to impregnate women”. Most people excluded with this definition would be cisgender men.
By “live as male” I mean that I appear to be one to most people I meet and they consider me as such which is the only thing that matters socially. Male and female social experience are different in any culture, and while this isn’t necessarily a good thing, it’s enough for the sentence “I live as a male” to make sense. If we didn’t have a cultural concept of “gender” then I guess I’d just live as some kind of “masculine-bodied person” and it also wouldn’t matter much in practical contexts
I wouldn’t say I specifically accommodate any gender roles. My interests are probably on more stereotypically “male” side but so are the interests of many cis women. I’m not overly “masculine” either, whatever this means.
If I stopped myself from transitioning only because I’d then happen to fulfill one of the other ridiculous gender stereotype, then it would be no different to affirming this stereotype in the first place
>I’m pretty sure no one believes that “live as man” = “be able to impregnate women”
I said male, not man
>By “live as male” I mean that I appear to be one to most people I meet and they consider me as such which is the only thing that matters socially. Male and female social experience are different in any culture, and while this isn’t necessarily a good thing, it’s enough for the sentence “I live as a male” to make sense.
so you are confirming the fact that you are simply conforming to the rest of society to stop being bothered.
>I said male not man
I’m pretty sure no one believes “live as a male” = “be able to impregnate women” either, because it would still exclude a ton of cisgender men
All I’m saying is that calling myself male makes more sense in social contexts (and most medical contexts after being on hrt long enough because most sex differences are due to hormones) and that I feel much better interacting with the world as what we define in our culture as “man”.
But no, being transgender isn’t the right way to “stop being bothered” by anyone.
>men who feel they should be buff so they take steroids to grow huge muscles
There is nothing wrong with this.
Source? A bullet is also a cure.
your identity is inexorably tied to your childhood traumas.
gender is something you figure out around the same time you start to talk.
gender dysphoria and gender identity bullshit is a social engineering project run by the tavistock institute types to actually see how fluid, and ephemerial parts of our identity are.
cia Black folk regularly undergo gender reassignment as part of their cover.
otokonoko pharmacy is a bootleg drugstore that would be illegal in any first world country
>you will always have XY chromosomes
>ummm this sotalol is a scam doc... i am going to spend my money on snake oil instead
no one is forcing you to get treatment. if you are sick and don't want to spend money, you just ignore it like 90% of people do
>psychic vampire treatment
And yet women keep making statements about Gwyneth Paltrow's products solving the problems big pharma doesn't want solved.
name one big pharma product that gets rid of psychic vampires
eating estrogen without blocking your testosterone or chopping your balls off won't do anything. Enjoy your placebo transfriend
>manufactured by Beijing Yibai
revenge
>and scare you away from alternative treatment options.
There's no alternative treatment options, only the placebo effect. Alternative medicines are scam for gullible people.
You could realize it by yourself by learning how those "medicines" are supposed to work and how dumb the explanations are.
Can you elaborate? Estrogen/androgen hormone effects are pretty well documented and they're not difficult to synth.
The fact my dog has epilepsy. I started using CBD oil and changed diet instead of using the pills the CBD works so well his much happy and everything touch wood so that doesn't change