How and why did this happen, the biggest mass killing in Europe since the end of WW2? While animosity between Serbs and Bosnians has always been high, what made the Serb want to straight up round up all males and boys and fill mass graves with them? And furthermore, what the FRICK was the Dutch NATO troops problem? Dudes literally stood there and watched them transport the men and boys away for liquidation. There's even footage when Mladic and his men first enter the camp and telling the people there not to worry etc, you can literally see the Dutch soldiers trying to block or guide the path through the people and Mladics men just lightly shove them aside and keep going. Like wtf?
How do you send a peace keeping force and have them just stand there with their thumbs in their asses while civilians are genocided? And don't even get me started on Mladic sitting down to negotiate with the NATO forces field commander and treating him like a complete cuck, basically saying they will let him do what he wants or they'll be destroyed.
How did this happen?
 |
 Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
|
>Serbs and Croats: neither exactly high on anyone's list of morally exemplary peoples (i.e. brutality comes naturally to them)
>Gutless behavour by Europeans to their fellow Euros (surprise surprise)*
>Dutch soldiers (higher tier are good apparently, low tier = well ... this happens)
*EVERY TIME I berate the EUtards about the EU's claim to free Europe from violence, they always switch to a narrower definition: "We mean those actually within the EU". See how they respond to Ukraine now, the frickers, with the UK doing more than the EU major powers.
Were the Dutch UN troops told specifically to avoid hostilities at all costs or something? Ok well I can understand them being cucks then at first... But when these fricking violent slavshits start rounding up all males at the camp, it didn't occur to them at all that, well, maybe they should PEACE KEEP by not allowing them to mass execute 8000 males? Or as seems more likely to me, they knew EXACTLY what they were going to do but had orders not to act. I just can't figure out why. Why deploy peacekeeping force when it does literally nothing?
Basically man the makeshift UN protection zone was completely overwhelmed with civilians and then it and the UN forces insider were surrounded by Serb forces. Mladic told the UN commander "Look, let me in to arrest males or we're going to fricking shell the frick out of you and your protection zone." What else could he do at the time? They were out numbered and too crowded with civilians to effectively fight the Serbs and thousands would be killed in the shelling.
Even after the massacres it still took a while for the UN/NATO whatever to actually do shit. But you must keep in mind this was pre-9/11 when the West tried to avoid overt use of military force whenever possible. That went out the window mostly after 9/11.
>pre-9/11 when the West tried to avoid overt use of military force whenever possible
Kek
NATO's only mistake was not flat out a full-scale invasion of Yugoslavia, dragging Milosevic to The Hague like Vercingetorix through Rome, and giving the Serbs the third ass-paddling in a century that they richly deserve for causing World War I.
It just wouldn't fly then, Anne Frank Pedo. It was a different time. Had Clinton done that he would've been labeled a bloodthirsty warmonger. He might've been redeemed later on in the eyes of history, especially considering how GW Bush is viewed for what was technically an illegal invasion of Iraq. But then again people thought that at the time about Bush/Cheney, it's just seemed to become more an accepted fact that they were opportunists who used 9/11 to do whatever they wanted around the globe. Had Clinton invaded with boots on the ground he'd have been justified. But America didn't have the stomach then for dead soldiers shipped home in a conflict on the other side of the globe that didn't directly effect them.
Yugoslavia was like the most justified war America ever fought, and America spent 1990-1994 and 1996-1999 trying to deescalate the conflict before Serb autism pushed their hand.
At one point in 1998 Clinton's national security council met and discussed Kosovo, and the unanimous verdict is that they shouldn't consider military intervention, and they should focus on a diplomatic resolution to the conflict. Then literally a few hours later the news came in that the Serbs had committed another massacre, and everybody had to meet again.
Kek honestly never understood why the US bombing Yugoslavia was such a controversial thing. Communists literally defend a bunch of ethno-nationalist chimps who behaved like a poor man's Wehrmacht.
It's just more complicated with the revival of Croatian ultranationalism at the same time and atrocities inflicted by those guys on civilians during the war as well. They "ethnically cleansed" the Serb population in Croatia. I actually met a Croatian veteran of Operation Storm (who moved to the U.S.) and he was not proud of it and basically thought the whole situation was fricked and didn't think the Serbs were "bad" in some particular way.
You see echoes of these beefs in the Ukraine war right now where Croatian volunteers (with very right-wing politics) have gone to fight on the Ukrainian side. And then Serbs support the Russians.
This, mostly. The Yugoslav partisans were among the biggest, baddest and meanest partisans in WWII and so they didn't need the Red Army's help. Yugoslavia was also a multi-national federation comprised of six different republics but with a central government. The original idea in socialist circles was to create a whole Balkans federation (so including Bulgaria, Albania, maybe Greece too?), but the Tito-Stalin split kept that limited to Yugoslavia.
Once Tito died and the economy declined in the 80s, and the socialist ideology withered on the vine, that's when the bureaucracy / nomenklatura in the respective communist parties in these republics turned to nationalism as a fallback ideology. Milosevic was also playing a double game of sorts where he was trying to hold this ostensibly socialist Yugoslav federation together while also appealing to Serb nationalism, which is a contradiction that accelerated the unraveling of Yugoslavia.
I'm not from the Balkans this is just stuff I've read.
They literally forced NATOs hand there, if it had been post War on Terror they'd have gotten bombed in the beginning. They chimped the frick out like the beastial slavs they are and they got bombed.
Also anyone ever noticed how much Serbs simp for Russia? Been noticing a lot since the war started in Ukraine. Damn near ever Serb I see can't get on his knees to suck off Putin and Russia fast enough. Is it just bitterness at the West?
>Also anyone ever noticed how much Serbs simp for Russia? Been noticing a lot since the war started in Ukraine. Damn near ever Serb I see can't get on his knees to suck off Putin and Russia fast enough. Is it just bitterness at the West?
It's just proof that Clinton shouldn't have been a complete fricking pussy and gone for straight-up ground invasion and regime change like George H. W. Bush and Bush Jr. would have. At least we'd get to play somewhere besides a fricking desert for once.
It's in their nature
Have they historically been such a fan of Russia? I thought most of their old Soviet satellites, which were almost all dominated by the Tsar before the revolution as well, hated them. Weren't Serbs just another cuck race they controlled? They like being a thrall to Asiatic steppe Black person orcs?
Russia entered WW1 on behalf of Serbia, because they considered themselves the traditional protector of Serbia. The NATO bombing of Serbia is one of the main reasons that an anti-American government came to power in Russia in the late 90s, beginning with Primakov and then Putin.
So yeah, it goes back a ways.
>because they considered themselves the traditional protector of Serbia
When have the Russians ever been so noble? Do they truly protect and help Serbia or is it just their cuck vassal? Either way I guess Serbia likes Russia having their back.
>he NATO bombing of Serbia is one of the main reasons that an anti-American government came to power in Russia in the late 90s, beginning with Primakov and then Putin.
Putin is an anti-West former KGB spook who had the FSB blow up his own citizens in the 1999 Russian apartment bombings (they were caught red handed planting one in Ryazan) to get popular support. Yeltsin had a 2% approval rating before this and Putin, as his chosen successor, was probably not going to be able to succeed at holding office until the bombings, he was able to play his big dick bad ass LARP that all manlets do and vow revenge on the Chechens and his support went through the roof.
>Have they historically been such a fan of Russia?
Others have mentioned the historical background but Serbia and Russia being tight is a thing with nationalists for some longstanding and "thick" historical reasons. Here's a Russian musician doing a rock song about Operation Allied Force which was the 1999 NATO bombing of Serbia and it's clear what side he's on:
China comes in a bit too in this whole schema with the U.S. bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade in 1999 which the Chinese overwhelmingly believe was a deliberate attack. I don't know if it was, but it wouldn't shock me, although it makes me wonder what the U.S. rationale would've been, since "eheheheh we're evil" doesn't make sense to me. It seems more like a slap in the face and maybe the Chinese were providing some intel to the Serbs in their military campaign. Makes me wonder.
Cool song. He makes the destruction of Kosovo from the bombing sound kino. Too bad they didn't drop more bombs on them.
>China comes in a bit too in this whole schema with the U.S. bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade in 1999 which the Chinese overwhelmingly believe was a deliberate attack. I don't know if it was, but it wouldn't shock me, although it makes me wonder what the U.S. rationale would've been, since "eheheheh we're evil" doesn't make sense to me. It seems more like a slap in the face and maybe the Chinese were providing some intel to the Serbs in their military campaign. Makes me wonder.
The CIA director at the time, giving an interview once he retired, claimed that the bombing of the Chinese Embassy was "the only part that the CIA personally requested". That could just be a boomer spook tall tale or he could keep telling the truth - and my assumption if they did ask for it to be bombed would be that yes, the Chinese Embassy was being used to provide intel to the Serbs.
>He makes the destruction of Kosovo from the bombing sound kino.
Russians are good at making their own punishment sound kino (or by a degree of separation in this case).
True. They are the world's biggest victims while at the same time bullying anyone weaker around them.
S*rbs and R*ssians love to claim that NATO indiscriminately bombed schools and hospitals in Kosovo, which is a lie. They did in fact blow that Chink embassy the frick up though, and that is based.
Yugoslavia was never a Soviet satellite actually, they remained fully independent from the USSR. Once ethno nationalist autism BTFO socialist solidarity, the Serbs decided to delude themselves into thinking that Russians are their brothers and shit
Were they fully independent or "fully independent" but within Russia's sphere of influence? Does Russia even have legit friends that aren't stronger than them or provide them with something in return?
Also wasn't them being independent in the Soviet days due almost exclusively to Tito and the sheer force and will of his personality? There is a funny quote about Tito from Heinrich Himmler:
>I must really say that he is a veteran Communist, this Herr Josip Broz, a consistent man. Unfortunately he is our enemy. He really has earned his title of Marshal. When we catch him we shall do him in at once; you can be sure of that; he is our enemy. But I wish we had a dozen Titos in Germany... The man had nothing at all. He was between the Russians, the British and Americans and took them all for a ride and shit on them in the most comical way. He has never capitulated.
-Heinrich Himmler, 1944
I've always wondered what he meant specifically by "shitting on all of them in the most comical way". I've posted it here before but no one seems to know what exactly he is referring to there.
>Were they fully independent or "fully independent" but within Russia's sphere of influence?
Genuinely fully independent. Stalin seethed at Tito and tried to assassinate him multiple times, but the Yugos always caught the assassins and humiliated the USSR by doing so. Soviet troops were never stationed in Yugoslavia and Yugoslav foreign policy championed the Third Worldist movement, which rejected Soviet domination as much as it rejected the Americans.
Soviet war plans in the event of WW3 regarded Yugoslavia as a potential enemy too.
Man, how did it all go to such shit after he died? Was it really this one gigachad Tito holding it together?
And I guess Himmler is referring to Tito courting each side for aid or whatever and then not siding with them afterwards?
It's both Tito dying and the economy shitting the bed. It's not coincidence that the entire socialist world was collapsing at the same time as Yugoslavia kek
So would Tito's image have been tarnished if he would've lived to see the collapse of the economy? How would he have reacted? I assume he wouldn'nt have been killed by the populace as he seems pretty loved. Could he have pulled the country out of it in one piece?
Tito may've been able to hold Yugoslavia itself together but he wouldn''t have been able to fix the economy.
The Serbs, being the biggest ethnic group, took everything over.
When you combine this with the constant propaganda about ustache and Muslim hordes, and Milosevic's machinations, and the stage was set for a massive issue.
Redpill me on bosnian muslims. Can they be considered Europeans?
They're Turk rape babies, their borderline European as most slavs except the ones farthest West.
The ones I've met are just regular Yuros.
Except for a minority being a tad more swarthy, they're largely indistinguishable from Serbian Christians physically. They just happen to be Muslim. It's unfortunate though, no one wants kebob around.
>Can they be considered Europeans?
Of course they're Europeans, why would this even be in question? Have you ever seen a Bosnian?
Are you American or Canadian?
europeans cant be muslim
Yes we can and we should.
>Also anyone ever noticed how much Serbs simp for Russia?
This has been a running joke in Europe since the 1990s. If a Russian jizzed into Lake Baikal, a Serb would drink up the whole damn lake
You forgot the most important bit: The Dutch zone had been blockaded for four months when the surrender finally happened. According to footage of the negotiations, the Dutch soldiers had enough food for two days and that was it. No medicine at all. The people were starving and filthy/flea ridden. Almost 100 were dying due to lack of medicines. They also had no fuel left at all. So I mean there wasn't a lot the Dutch commander could do. People call him a cuck, maybe he should've been more offensive before it came to what it did... but he stated his assessment was he had too few men to effectively fight the Serbs and protect the civilians which was his main priority so he had dedicated his efforts to trying to look after the civilians. Though Mladic did scream at him during the first taped meeting for some UNPROFOR soldiers shooting at Serb soldiers. But he stated his UN troops were fired on first, which is likely true.
He also stated that UN high command had asked him to hand out all the weapons that UN forces had secured from the population at the zone - 300 rifles, two battle tanks and some mortars - to the Muslim men there. Eight times they told him to do it and, at least according to him, eight times he refused because he thought it was not what was best to ensure the safety of the refugees.
.
Srebrenica wasn't the only UN safe zone set up nor were the Dutch the only international forces from the UN sent there to protect civilians. Only the Dutch cucked like you describe.
>UN sets up a bunch of "safe zones" for people in Bosnia
>Serbs are upset about this because the entire Serb strategy in the war was based on chasing off ethnic groups that the Serbs didn't like
>they begin attacking the safe zones, so they can complete the ethnic cleansing
>the UN safe zone held by Welsh fusiliers holds after a bloody battle
>the UN safe zone held by Ukrainians falls, but only after the Ukrainians managed to evacuate all of the civilians
>the UN safe zone held by the Bosnian Army is mortared heavily, but is never directly assaulted
>the UN safe zone held by the Dutch immediately surrenders, at which point the Serbs separate the men from the women and children, rape the women, and shoot the men
The Dutch commander was in a bad position true enough but their inaction was inexcusable. As was their immediate folding to a ragtag force led by an unwashed slavBlack person war criminal who probably smelled like shit.
And then the Dutch government moved to give them all medals after they withdrew.
>Dutch
you've summed up their homosexualry
The situation of Žepa and Srebrenica were exactly the same. The Ukrainians didn't evacuate shit. In fact they got even more cucked than the Dutch, they literally surrendered their weapons to the Bosniak militia at gunpoint and then got taken hostage by the Serbs to use as human shields against airstrikes.
The evacuation of Žepa was organised by the Bosnian Serb army, exactly like in Srebrenica. The difference between them is that the Bosniak males in Žepa decided to fight their way to friendly lines whereas those in Srebrenica trusted the Serbs and went along with the evacuation.
>he difference between them is that the Bosniak males in Žepa decided to fight their way to friendly lines whereas those in Srebrenica trusted the Serbs and went along with the evacuation.
So Mladic's plan for Zepa was also to execute all the men as well but they were smart enough to fight their way out? It's pretty chilling watching the tapes of the negotiations where Mladic point blank tells both the Dutch commander he can leave or die "Your forces can withdrawal. Or you can stay and die." and later the civilian representatives of the protection zone, point blank, "You have two options. You can leave or you can disappear." I mean did this Black person not understand you shouldn't just blatantly threaten to execute civilians in an official negotiation? I guess he just didn't care. He apparently lived a normal life in Serbian for years after the war, he was protected by the president of the country himself and various heads of the intelligence and military services. His luck ran out eventually though when these allies started to drop off.
Yes, they were going to execute all the males in any zone they were able to get control of. He was practically foaming at the mouth for this once he entered the city.
You can see in the talks for the surrender to the Serbs that there is a menacing undercurrent of hints at this. Just little comments here and there. Thom Karremans was the Dutch commander of this zone and he told him he had done more than he should have for the Muslim population when he told Mladic about the meager amount of aid they were able to provide to them. Karremans also frequently says during talks "I will ask General Nikolai", which was a Russian peacekeeper commander there. Mladic stops him at one point and says "You can ask General Nikolai whatever you want... but there is nothing General Nikolai can do to help you. And there is nothing General Nikolai can do to help the Muslim population." with the implication being only he and the Serbs could help them evacuate. There was no way he was letting the men slip through his fingers.
Granted we didn't have all the technology we have today that allows us to zoom in close up to mass graves as they're being dug anywhere in the world and for information from witnesses to go worldwide instantly on the internet but still... how could he think he could get away with a Soviet or Third Reich tier mass execution of nearly 10,000 men? Did he think the world wouldn't find out? Or that once the UN had left then his problems would be over?
> So Mladic's plan for Zepa was also to execute all the men as well but they were smart enough to fight their way out?
Very likely yes. I wouldn't use the word smart to describe chimping out and attacking UN forces who are there for your protection, but the end result was obviously better. Also, Žepa was smaller and I believe it hadn't been completely surrounded and besieged for as long as Srebrenica.
Mladic also told the refugees collected at the Dutchbat compound that they would be evacuated safely to Bosniak territory. He even personally handed out sweets to the terrified children. Dutchbat helped the VRS to collect refugees into the busses, they believed or at least hoped that they would really be transported out of harm's way. Although there were suspicions, it would take almost a week it to become clear that a genocide had actually occured. At that point the Dutchbat had already had an infamous party in Zagreb celebrating the end of its mission.
>I wouldn't use the word smart to describe chimping out and attacking UN forces who are there for your protection, but the end result was obviously better.
Well what is their protection worth when they're literally protecting you from your life? They're keeping you safe and orderly to go to your execution. Those mudslimes made the right decision. It was a gamble to be sure, not sure I'd have made it, I probably would have actually trusted the UN to stop massacres from happening. And I'd be worm food.
Looks like I was mistaken. On this map you can see Bosniak militias from Srebrenica also fought their way out. Apparently they just fricking left 8.000 dudes there to die.
It could just be how all poor slavs in that region look, especially after being in the zone with little food, but the footage of Muslim men getting executed, they all look like skinny as frick and weak, not fighter type at all. Maybe that's just to my Western eyes. But it could be those 8,000 thought the Serbs would honor their agreement and decided to take their chances.
Supplies and munitions were basically non existent and it was a massive bet to breakthrough as the Serbs organized massive manhunts in their rear, Bosnian territory was also relatively far off and portion of the footage is from the days following as groups got cornered and were captured or induviduals couldnt keep up and had to be left behind.
>Mladic also told the refugees collected at the Dutchbat compound that they would be evacuated safely to Bosniak territory. He even personally handed out sweets to the terrified children.
So did he safely evacuate the women and children at least? He tells a female civilian representative that she can go anywhere, "You can go east, you can go to Serbia itself if you wish that is fine with me, or you can go west. We will take you where ever you wish to go. Or you can stay and disappear." and when the woman says she would like to leave and would like for her daughter and grandchild to come as well Mladic says "Madam, I will transport you all in my own vehicle if I have to." So did he at least honor his words by safely getting them where ever they wanted to go?
I don't know what you make of hundreds of women getting raped but I wouldn't call that safely evacuating.
It's estimated 34.000 troops would be needed to secure the safe zones. The UN countries were only willing to provide 7.600. This meant that the mission was completely untenable from the start. The assumption was that air power would be enough to deter the Serbs and it was expressly allowed. But the planes never came.
I should mention the following extra information. In 1994 the tide was slowly turning against the Bosnian Serbs, who had very long frontlines. Also in February the hostilities between Bosnians and Croats had ended. In June 1994 it was the Serbs who proposed a ceasefire, but the Bosnians refused. The VRS then became convinced that they had to eliminate the safe zones while they still had the chance. Both as a military objective, to free up forces that had been guarding the enclaves, and to ethnically cleanse the areas in the expectation of the establishment of their own independent state.
Serbs are Black folk in white skin and the Dutch are a nation of useless fricking cowards. Next question.
If it had been US Marines there, they would have declared the whole area a Free-Fire Zone and killed everyone who so much as looked at them the wrong way. And that would be BEFORE the Cobra gunships LAV-25s, and Abrams tanks show up to use the survivors for target practice 🙂
All the fault of the French. Well, the UN in general but the UN command was in the hands of French generals. These pants-pissers refused to allow the evacuation of the enclave which was obviously militarily untenable. Also, they refused to provide extra manpower or heavy weaponry so that the Dutch were both unable to organise a defense against the Serbian forces, but also unable to disarm the Bosnian militia in the enclave (who had been continuously raiding the surrounding countryside). Finally, when the Serbians attacked the enclave the UN forbade the use of air support from Dutch F16 planes so that any resistance was simply pointless. This was because Serbs were keeping UN peacekeepers hostage, threatening to kill them (in front of cameras) if air support was deployed against Serb forces.
The Dutch finally had no choice but to go against UN orders and have the Serbs organise the evacuation of the safe zone. If this had been done 2 months earlier, I believe it could have happened in an orderly fashion without problems. The UN could easily have sent their own bus drivers, maybe even some tanks to secure the evacuation route. They simply didn't believe the Serbs would commit this kind of genocide, even after three years of siege of Sarajevo and countless crimes against humanity.
There is tons of video footage of Mladic from this time, the Serbs documented a lot on video cameras. They have all been translated with subs and are collectively part of the 'Mladic Files' which were later used in his trial.
Mladic said on Serbian television as he entered the town "Today, I give this town to the Serbian people as a gift. And now it is time to take revenge on the Turks of this region." I'm fairly certain they would've killed all the military age men even if it had been two months earlier.
Also why did they forbid the use of the F-16s? Man, had this shit happened just a decade later these frickers would've been toast.
> I'm fairly certain they would've killed all the military age men even if it had been two months earlier.
I'm not so sure about that. The VRS had been gathering forces around Srebrenica for around 6 months and the Bosnians grew increasingly desperate. The supply lines to the enclave were cut off - as
says, there was only food for a few days and also almost no fuel to run generators or tanks. This meant that the Serbs organised the evacuation with their own buses and the Dutch had not enough APCs to guide them all back.
A few months earlier I think it would still have been possible to organise an evacuation by UN means. It would have been an enormous propaganda victory for the Bosnian Serbs, but I think in the end the outcome would have been better.
> Also why did they forbid the use of the F-16s?
Like I said, cucked French put the lives of a few dozen peacekeepers over those of thousands of civilians. That's why after the enclaves were eliminated, immediately the NATO bombing campaigns started.
Say they had authorized those F-16s. Do you think the massacre could've been averted?
Maybe yeah. Two F16's did actually fly to Srebrenica two days before the enclave's fall and both dropped one (1) bomb without UN permission. I read an interview with one of the pilots, Manja Blok, she says they could've killed Mladic in that run. I don't really believe that, but even with those two planes they maybe could've forced the VRS to retreat. Think about it, just a month later the whole Bosnian Serb army got assrecked by the NATO bombing campaign and the war was over.
Yeah he screamed at Dutch commander about that too. They go back and forth through the interpreter for like ten fricking minutes, "Ask him if he ordered the air strikes on my forces!" "I can't order air strikes, that's not how it works, I relay the information on the ground to high command which is very far away and they make the decisions." "Did you order the air strikes on my men?" "Again, I can't order them, I can only report the situation and the high command decides what response is appropriate." "TELL HIM TO SPEAK PLAINLY, DID YOU ORDER THE AIR STRIKES ON MY MEN? DID YOU TELL YOUR MEN TO FIRE THEIR WEAPONS AT MY SOLDIERS ALSO!?" "I cannot order air strikes... but yes I did... I did authorize my men to fire at your soldiers because they took incoming mortars and tank rounds from your side. I have been trying to help the refugees as a blue soldier, a soldier of peace, but we must defend ourselves if attacked. But no I did not order the air strikes I cannot"
None of you are mentioning that UN soldiers did literally nothing at blatant violations of UN safezones done by Muslim forces. UN morons were in over their head and thinking a few thousand guys with minimal resistance could stop armies with units many thousands strong from killing each other.
What do you mean? Like not allowing Muslims in the zone to be armed? The commander told Mladic on the tapes that his UNPROFOR troops had been patrolling and seizing any weapons they found from the population - however they were only 200 strong and the civilians numbered like 10,000. There's only so much they'd be able to do. And Dutchbat Commander essentially says that in light of how poor their numbers were and their desperate situation that yes, he basically made the decision on the ground for them to not intervene in some things. It just wasn't feasible and I don't think any of them wanted to throw their life away over these feral slavshits.
Naser Oric was well known for basically continually violating the UN safezone and regularly sending his men to raid surrounding villages and settlements. The Serbs were hardly princeses to provoke this but the real reason between why this happend was 3 years of Naser raiding villages and UN guys basically only being able to shrug their shoulders to Mladic until he decided to hell with it and attacked the enclave again.
>Naser Oric
Mladic states at negotiations that he knows Oric is not present in the Dutch zone.
Oric left relatively late in 1995 and Muslim forces continued to perform their raids and actions although they lacked lacked proper leadership it seems. If i'm not mistaken a small raid where muslims burned down houses and stole animals from villager Serbs happend just a day or two before the Serbs began attacking Srebrenica and was kinda considered the "spark" though imo at that point it was already pretty much lit.
Karremans does mention to Mladic and his staff that, although his forces had seized all weapons they had discovered among the population, that they were aware that weapons were being smuggled into the zone by Muslim fighters and that he couldn't give an accurate assessment of how many there could be.
Arms smuggling was another factor in their, if you watch Mladic's interviews even early on one of the things he emphasizes is that UN safezones cannot be used as a vector for smuggling, and that if the UN got "negligent" in their duties he would take matters into his own hands.
That being said, Srebrenica was always pretty poorly armed as it was a surrounded enclave always watched by Serb forces closely along with the UN guys. I think the main factor was that Muslim forces (6-10,000 strong) would inflict serious damage on village garrisons and the citizens living there and the UN couldnt directly controll what all these soldiers did obviously with 500 guys.
UN forces also knew full well those men were being taken to be executed.
>Karremans has always denied that he was aware of the fact that thousands of Muslim men and boys he saw being taken away by Bosnian Serbs were going to be murdered. At least one Dutchbat member, former Dutch army surgeon Ger Kremers, has stated that he and Karremans watched the men being taken away by Serb forces. Karremans is alleged to have said "It will not end well with them."
He also repeatedly downplays to Mladic during talks the number of men and arms among the population. He says he has 10,000 women children and elderly and "very few men" and claimed virtually all weapons had been seized from them. The topic of the men is barely ever brought up by Karremans and he instead always refers to the women and children in the zone. This tells me he knew they wanted to kill or at the very least put in camps and starve those men.
The real failure here is in UN/Dutch/Whoever high command leaving such a small force there to protect that zone. They failed the Dutchbat forces, not Karremans.
Muslims are inherently evil, killing muslims is an act of Good
Never happened + they deserved it
yeah okay s*rb
What? But /misc/ told me Europeans are not savages
Slavs are savages bro they've always been brutal and barbarous. It's their culture I guess. This includes Russians though they are more Asiatic. Non-Slavic Europeans are not savages, that's why the collective West has to be vigilant and stop chimpouts of the East when they occur.
This map is shows the frontlines in 1993. I strongly believe a partition and population exchange agreement would have been a much better solution to the war. Today Bosnia-Herzegovina is an ungovernable mess and simply not able to leave its disputes in the past, whereas many of its neighbours have moved on and developed a healthy economy.
Here we see how little gains each side was able to make from 1993-1995. That's why the VRS felt the need to eliminate the safe zones. The pressure was on, with each passing month the Croats became stronger and in August 1995 they easily wiped away the armies of Krajina and the Bosnian Serbs.
Here is the ethnic plurality map of Bosnia with the Vance-Owen peace plan overlaid on top. It was an attempt to prevent dissolution of Bosnia along ethnic lines. With establishment of the Safe Areas in april 1993, the UN Security Council basically admitted the gains made by Bosnian Serbs and the failure of this peace plan - which had been accepted by Karadzic but not the Bosnian Serb assembly, who felt that they needed to give up too much territory that they had already conquered and ethnically cleansed.
In the meantime our favourite schizo world power the USA was arguing for heavy weapons distribution to Croatia and Bosnia, basically like is happening now in Ukraine. I don't fricking know, seems insane to me.
US/NATO is based and we will continue to arm Ukraine to bleed the Asiatic steppe Black person Russian hordes
>In the meantime our favourite schizo world power the USA was arguing for heavy weapons distribution to Croatia and Bosnia, basically like is happening now in Ukraine. I don't fricking know, seems insane to me.
And it should have happened, since your unfamiliar with the whole situation. The weapons embargo had a very one sided effect favoring the Serbs, who seized the majority of military gear left over from the Yugoslav People's Army. This is a well known fact, as well as the poor state of the Bosnian Army when it comes to weaponry. Even Balkan Battlegrounds attests to this. The Bosnian Army had to be armed through Croatia which syphoned of parts of every arms shipment, not to talk about the critical lack of artillery, anti tank weaponry and anything else you might need to wage a modern war. The Bosnian Army also turned to improvised designs which were produced in local factories, low quality weaponry as a last resort which can only be compared to the late war production of Volkssturm weaponry in the Third Reich. Even worse.
This enabled the Serbs to be very successful early in the war, and enabled many atrocities where unarmed populations were slaughtered.
More weapons does not lead to less slaughter. That is all.
Yes it does
It definitely does when unarmed civilians are the primary targets, local Bosnian forces had no way to resist the Serbians who then rounded up and murdered unarmed people en masse. Lmaoing at the state of this post.
>unarmed civilians
LOL
Yes
they pulled dead muslims from whole Bosnia just to display them as a Srebrenica victims. CNN cameras were prepared before anything even happened
staged just like Bucha
>dead we wuz not serbs n shiet
beautiful
those were all descendants of handschar ss division
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)
It didn't happen + Even if it did it was actually because the evil American CIA tricked Serbia into doing it in
t. Chomsky
Why is this commie israelite like this? He also simped for the khmer rouge.
Serbs have decided to set a rule that if you have a ethnic majority in any given place that ethnicity has the right to take that land. Naturally this means that any other ethnicity in your country is now a threat because if their population outgrows yours then they get to take that land back and that's why you saw atrocities on all sides.
Dutch bat gave up their forward positions without a fight, losing their heavy mgs, Dutchbat refused to use live rounds from their 81mm mortars, Dutchbat were told by enemy forces to surrender their wards or died, dutchbat of course surrendered and started kvecthing about their conditions instead of accepting that they failed as soldiers.
Europeans are genocidal anti Muslim
Simple as
Dutch felt they sympathized with the Serbians.
Simple as.
>a LOT killed in the woods in combat while trying to escape/surrender, some even shot eachother and similar given that VRS used some psychadelics, infiltrators and so on
>the typical revenge killings in the war and ethnic cleansing escalating because of god knows what that happenned that wasn't planned
>the numbers are inflated somewhat by making shit up, but mainly because a lot of war dead from other places get buried there and written as "srebrenica victims"
t. Serb
A while back an anon recommended the book My War Gone By, I Miss It So. It was really good and I am passing along the recommendation
In my own headcanon, the ideal solution would have been airlift the 101st Airborne Division into Drina Valley and just have them go My Lai on literally everyone. Bosnian, Serb, Croat, random tourists who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, EVERYONE.
You see, genocide actually is based, but only when it's applied completely indiscriminately and the sole objective is to kill anything that moves, irregardless of whose side they're actually on.
If you give a shit about the serbian side of the story
There was a rouge muslim gang who killed and sloughtered villages that couldnt be protected often in this the local muslims aided them.