This is the future of Linux package distribution, just admit it
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This is the future of Linux package distribution, just admit it
This is the future of Linux package distribution, just admit it
CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
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There is another
this is just a shitty knockoff of nix
No this is better nix. Nix makes you learn a language that you can't do anything to configure stuff. In guix you use a language that can actually be used to program other things its a transferable skill. The same language also allows you to use the Shepherd init system. Also it has a completely free repo so you can know everything that is running on your computer. If you absolutely have to have proprietary stuff usually for firmware you can use the nonguix repo. Nix tries to be a niche distro. Guix fully develops the idea.
Lisp is much harder to learn than Nix and it's still an obscure language, especially Guile Scheme. You're very unlikely to get any additional benefit from it. Nix is just JSON with functions. Jsonnet, a widely used tool for writing Kubernetes configurations and similar things where YAML would otherwise be used, is heavily inspired by and very similar to Nix. Nix is not a distro.
>nix not a distro
I say that because of nixOS, but you are correct.
>unlikely to get additional befit
I enjoy it as a scripting language and feel that it has helped my development as a programmer. Also I like the GTK binding for it which make it nice for writing small programs. It also runs faster than python and allows you to construct programs within programs using macros. Also because you use lisp and an actual programming language you gain the extensibility of the language which nix does not have.
>kubernetes
Meh they use the same format, but they are not really the same thing. I doubt you could take much from nix to kubes besides the general layout of json and that isn't too hard to learn without it.
>nix is a distro
lol
Guix is like Nix but improved in every way
Nix is obsolete
>no flakes
It's shit.
what about non free?
nonguix
Ok but how do I get Webex Teams, OpenRazer/Polychromatic, and Brave Browser on this? The former I need for work, the second I use for my peripherals, and the latter is just plain based. With breaking the FHS and not having anything remotely as supported and package-rich as the AUR or being a Deb distro which everything supports because le ubuntu, using your meme distro is hard to do or recommend for anyone with even a slightly off selection of software they use.
>WebEx
You probably will have to use Debian with guix so you can install via a .deb
>teams
Probably using an open source fronted like
https://vuejsexamples.com/an-open-source-frontend-for-microsoft-teams-with-vue/
>openrazor
This just needs you to wrap for guix.
>brave browser
Again you would need to wrap for guix.
>You probably will have to use Debian with guix so you can install via a .deb
So why not just use Debian then and skip all this Guix BS if the answer is to just do that?
>open source fronted
Project looks quite dead, but good to know in general. Thanks.
>This just needs you to wrap for guix.
How trivial is this?
>So why not just use Debian then and skip all this Guix BS if the answer is to just do that?
exactly. but here's the only problem, guix and nix homosexual degenerates absolutely cannot stop pushing their shit software no one uses. their entire identity depends on YOU using the software that THEY use because it validates their sexuality.
>How trivial is this?
Here's an example with Brave
https://github.com/xaverh/etc/blob/master/guix/config.scm#L12
>hundreds and hundreds of lines of config in a single file
are nix homosexuals really this stupid and autistic?
>guix
Brave is just from line 12 to 139
>it's just 127 lines of config bro!
are you really this autistic?
Its with generous spacing
read it yourself, anon
first metadata (name, description, version, link to website, etc.) of which is one per line, which bloats the line number but whatever
the license type, the fact its compressed so it needs with what and how
then dependencies, some are 4 characters long but get their own line. These are descriptive anyway and include versions
Then shit like checksum to make sure the download hasnt been tampered with
then obviously the process to install, which includes where to place configs, fonts, etc.
then finally, a way to compile the software yourself, because 1. some are into that and 2. its important to make it so users can verify the compiled version is identical to the download offered, for safety reasons, if broken this could perhaps be reported
pretty comprehensive and in fact i think just over 100 lines for ALL that is very concise, especially due to how it seems the author loves the Return key way too much lmao
>read it yourself, anon
holy shit you're an autistic fricking moron. you really don't get it, do you. here's how to install brave for non loser homosexuals like you: https://brave.com/linux/
anon thats linked there
it is ultimately downloaded from there, it just comes with that extra info, including safety checks and some QoL shit to make it simple to organize, like you can know what you installed with one command
let me tell you that whole shit is standard in every operating system, in the case of windows then Brave itself made it for you (thank god, windows is a pain to build installers for), but then again you dont need to make the config yourself, it just takes one autist to write it, share it and done, no need to wait for Brave to write it
dependencies and compilation takes most of the lines, but as i told you its just for safety and in fact optional to write...
also let me remind you that whole thing is write and forget
you can share it with the whole world, its literally it
if the download site or main website or the name changes OK then you have to update but its really simple
for the user, its just dowload a file then type whats basically sudo install brave
didn't read this shit, here's how to install brave: https://brave.com/linux/
holy frick how can sane person say that this is a better language than nix? this is incredibly verbose and ugly
Well, it looks more concise to me than this bash hackery
https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/pkgs/applications/networking/browsers/brave/default.nix#L120
>https://github.com/xaverh/etc/blob/master/guix/config.scm#L12
This is like a shared config used by all users for installation, right?
Not like a personal user's config? R-right
I mean why would it even define the specific version and all dependencies
No the issue is you are using closed source software that didn't package guix. If it doesn't have source then repacking is a huge chore this is not just for guix.
really? i'm using closed source software? please tell me what closed source software that I'm using, I'd love to have a laugh
WebEx which was what made me say use Debian because that was all they had for download.
It's also in the AUR
I don't use webex, what are you talking about? also, who the frick uses webex? what is this 1995? use jitsi
FPBP
/thread
4 different solutions to the same problem...
This is why Linux sucks.
Windows just works.
https://www.slant.co/topics/1843/~best-windows-package-managers
13 options right there
>install-shield
>inno-setup
>clickteam install creator
>NSIS
>nullsoft
Reminder that programs are responsible for uninstalling themselves on Windows
https://creativecow.net/forums/thread/vegas-pro-10-setup-wiped-out-my-program-files-fol/
Windows solves this problem by bloating the system with backwards compatibility elements that they can't remove and neither can the user. It expects programs to statically link or link to a DLL to solve this issue. Guiles solution to this is much more elegant and manageable in the long run.
>Can't comprehend there being several different choices for how to run your system.
>Microsoft needs to just tell me how to run my computer so I don't hurt my fragile little brain
doesn't Microsoft itself have 3 or 4 different installers for Windows now
It's even worse with applications
"I am completely unaware of basic UNIX commands, so I will reinvent roff several thousands of times"
The only real solution is to distribute every program as single standalone binary file. Period.
>Breaks depending on used distro unless you ship every single needed library statically linked (impractical)
>Waste of storage
>No package manager
Flatpak is superior to this in every way.
-Doesn't break depending on distro version because of runtimes
-A flatpak from 30 years ago will work the same on modern distros
-OStree Deduplication makes it so runtimes take barely any space at all (or less) if you have a lightweight base system
-Win/macgays can still download flatpak bundles and install apps without a repo or distribute flatpakref files and still get updates without every app implementing their own updating mechanism like appimage/exes/binaries force you to do
-FULLY OPTIONAL repo system, but you can still get flatpak bundles directly from the developer that can get updates
-No static linking bullshit, everything just works.
-Sandboxing keeps all your app data isolated in ~/.var/app, apps can be uninstalled without a trace.
-Apps that work better without sandboxing like VSC can be given access to the home folder
There is no actual anti flatpak argument that isn't fud or complaints about xdg-desktop-portal not being perfect yet.
>bu-but my secoority
sandboxing + the flatpak build files are like 50 lines max, just fricking read the manifest if you're a dumb schizoid.
>bu- PERFORRRMANCCEEE
bubblewrap has ZERO overhead. If you're a gentoogay you can still compile all your flatpak packages with march=native.
>AHHHHH-CK
Concession accepted snap/appimage/gentoo degenerate.
Based
Based and redp--
>gentoo degenerate
You fricking take that back right now
>slow
>bloated
>needs a fricking sandbox to work
Binary with dynamic libraries included with the whole package. The only sane option.
>thinks flatpak is slow or bloated
>didn't even read my post
have a nice day Black person.
I meant it in the best way possible, compiling all your shit with march=native for schizo tier performance is based.
another thread ruined by guix/nix transsexual homosexuals
This was pretty on topic for the thread we were discussing the future of Linux packaging and I disagreed with the conclusion OP came to. Also I am not butt slamming sodomite that plays dress up because they can't deal with being an adult. A whole generation of Michael Jackson and their Neverland ranches where they pretend they reality doesn't apply to them.
Cope.
Fedora is full of trannies, Black person.
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/diversity-inclusion/
>https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/diversity-inclusion/
Based, installing fedora now
>women are trannies
the chudcel mind
>>women are trannies
This but unironically.
fpbp
If it's good enough for Bitcoin developers, then it's good enough for me.
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/master/contrib/guix
Cryptogays input doesn't matter.
It's gay and so are you.
It’s already present
never switching from apt
This. Appimages are just better.
>no sandboxing
>no package manager
>no way to easily handle permissions
Only morons think appimages are better
name one normal fricking person use case that has needed sandboxing on linux. one time when sandboxing would have saved the day on a normal ass computer, rather than just introducing bugs and inconveniences like fricked up print dialogs.
maybe I don't want random programs accessing my home folder
are you stupid?
Just don't install malware you dumb fricks ?
exploits exist, dumbfrick
are you really asking why someone would want to stop random programs to access all their personal files?
I think sandboxing is good but that's a terrible way to word it. Someone's just going to say "don't install those."
what do you mean "those"? this applies to every non open source program.
If im forced to install zoom or whatever bullshit for school or something, i want to be able to isolate that shit
Exactly, I was merely saying they should've given a stronger case like that.
Don't install those. Now it is easier to use the majority of programs which you do want to be able to access arbitrary locations.
/solved
Why are you installing "random programs"
Security beside the point, even as a home user I've used sandboxes to troubleshoot issues before.
IE - if I install a package through flatpak and it works, but the same package when installed from apt doesn't, then that tells me the problem is somewhere in my environment.
this
windows doesnt have sandboxing so why should linux
>name one case
lazieness
Both based
>future of Linux
People are still using and maintaining gentoo. Thill still be distros with old fashion apt yum when IBM and zuck are pushing flatbloat
for example the dark souls RCE never affected me since I was running the games in sandboxed steam
Compability issues, no repo model
>the binary inside the appimage is not statically linked against musl libc
>your appimage now does not work on non-glibc distro
gee thanks a lot
I used to like the idea of AppImages but apparently you can't install them? You have to find the file every time?
Just make a .desktop file
I put them in /opt/appimage/ and make .desktop files for whisker menu.
You can use an Appimage daemon or manager if you don't want to do that. I just drop them in ~/bin and add a .desktop file.
Rockbox utility AppImage failed to resolve its SSL dependency on Fedora 36
Crapimage doesn't work.
>sudo
why the frick would you do that?
To be able to access shit outside $HOME?
That's a really bad reason to run something as a superuser. Fix your access permissions or add a symlink instead of this.
Both of your suggestions are entirely situational. The actual solution is to use portals but too bad crapimages cannot enforce the usage of portals.
AppImage are just a container.
If an AppImage doesn't work, it's the fault of the one who created that specific AppImage, not a fault with the concept of AppImage in itself.
AppImage has no mechanism to ensure dependencies are complete. Flatpak, Nix and most of the other formats do. This is why AppImage is trash.
>If an AppImage doesn't work
Then it's Appimages fault for not ensuring dependency completion.
>if correctly made appimages
There is no technical way to know.
In fact there are no correct appimages since they rely on the same glibc version as the author and the user. It's a fundamentally broken concept.
Don't know what to say, laddie! I'm torn. SoulseekQt doesn't work anymore:
https://groups.google.com/g/soulseek-discussion/c/w72HJpQtWuA
lol
Old AppImage programs will one day stop working on new distro.
this is not a problem with Flatpak because you can install old Runtime package along with any other packages
SIR DELETE THIS APPIMAGES ARE PORTABLE
How is this gonna happen if correctly made appimages contain all dependencies?
>correctly made appimages
The problem is that incorrectly made AppImages are created so easily and so often.
>this is the future
Thanks, I hate it.
How many linux devs does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Lightbulb? Lighbulbs are a bad design. We're working on a new illuminator that only shines light exactly where it's needed. It consumes 40x more power, requires a three man team to put in the ceiling, and might break, but this is objectively better than your outdated lightbulbs. Besides, lightbulbs are insecure. Anyone can just reach up and remove or break them, or overvolt your home and blow them all out. Our system can not be removed or broken by man and is immune to all electrical disasters. We're saving you trouble in the future. If it burns out, please contact your system administrator or take a weekend off to fix it.
>contact support forum
>"you must have broke it"
Too many steps to install with nothing to substantiate the effort. Arch already comes with a package manager. Flatpak has a gimmick where you can click a button that doesn't work and it installs, that's it. The page doesn't even load in lynx.
Never used it, don't intend to start.
Frick binaries, just leave the source on the site and document your goddamn dependencies and compile flags, my build box will take care of compiling to my hardware and stripping debugging symbols.
>shitnux
you lincucks will never learn. No matter what you do, Linsux will never be good enough because the community are a bunch of fricking morons who can't code to save their lives. It is held together with txt files. All the infighting drove the server market to Windows. Frick off with your bullshit thread.
>statistics implying OS/390 is still in active use (and not z/OS)
Stats inaccurate, disregarded.
>Market Share
/biz/tards should stay in their containment board.
Linux lives rent free inside your head and you can't do anything about it.
https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/operating_system
Nice bait
>https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/operating_system
Unix != shitnux homosexual
Apple deprecated servers and nobody cares about *BSD.
>nobody cares about *BSD.
I care about *BSD.
Post screenfetch
5 precent unix servers
HOLY SHIT.
it just werks
>linux users: i use open source because with all these eyes on the code there's no way pajeetware is getting on my computer
>linux users: I NEED TO RUN AN AUTISTIC HIGHLY RESTRICTIVE SECURE ENVIRONMENT WHAT IF THERES PAJEETWARE IN THE REPO!?
No anon, it's *I need to make everyone else run an autistic...*
How are they mutually exclusive?
I partially agree, it should only be used for proprietary packages tbh.
i really like flatpak, but it's not ready yet.
It has its usecase but running into unsolvable scenarios made me go back to native packages for the ones that caused trouble.
For example I had steam installed as a flatpak and it was working pretty smoothly, even with proton and all that shit. I had the binding of Isaac repentance on my machine and wanted to install mods from the workshop - it refused to work. Even when I put the files directly into the game directory, the mods didn't load. Found a protondb post quoting mods are not possible to get with the flatpak version.
This bothered me as steam had a bug recently where it demanded root access because of some f'd up network configuration inside of the steam client. With flatpak you could just disable network manager access for steam inside flatseal and it just worked without bothering you.
Now i had to look into the issue and someone on the issue tracker posted a workaround (at least for OpenSUSE).
If i ever had to use zoom or discord or some spyware shit, I'd get it as a flatpak.
Why do they change every week?? I swear, every 8 months or so I go on a Linux binge (I try switching to/learning linux as much as I can for like a month) and every time there's some new distrobution method. Why can't we keep appimage and stick with it? Seems to work pretty well.
><> is the future of <>
When has this ever been true?
I do admit it. Its wonderful
Why does it auto-update 10 minutes after boot?
What's the point of waiting 10 minutes?
emerge --depclean sys-apps/flatpak
aleast its not snap.
moronic devs that don't listen to criticism
moronic command line use
Maybe if they can fix theming.
just installed my first flatpak today, et legacy game
everything just works, pleasently surprised
> appimage good
appimages are moronic because they are (almost always) linked to glibc.
> muh sandbox
if you don't want stuff accessing your users home directory then just create another user, with wayland and pipewire you can just share the socket.
> nix/guix good
better, but only shit software requires dependency management like that
please just compile your software from a tarball like a normal person and trash all containers/precompiled binaries/appimage-whatever
>better, but only shit software requires dependency management like that
what the frick is that supposed to mean?
wtf is the point of making 500 users when I can just use sandboxing? sandboxing has no overhead.
>please just compile your software from a tarball
oh yes I love spending 2h and dozens of gigabytes of disk space to rebuild my web browser for every minor update
ive been rolling my own packages using slackware for years, not gonna stop now trusting Black person homosexuals with flatpacks and snaps
no one asked
Linux is free and do do the frick i want with it, So there's no "future of linux".
But if there are people that want a linux with flatpak, then flatpak should exist for those.
It's not Windows or MacOS where the daddy corpo only let you decide the color of your windows (sometimes).
Except corporations are pushing linux in a direction and you will follow.
Not really.
The cattle obviously will, but you're not mandated to go that way, and the abundance of completely "free of shit i don't like" distros make it a painless job.
Sure, but there needs some sort of standardization. There's a lot of devs being spread around trying to reinvent the wheel and that isn't good for Linux as a whole.
I was debloating a fresh 22.04 install and even after I removed snapd there was 2GB of libs left on my system. Flatpak is more competent but its the same shit . can't depency hell be fixed without bloat?
depedency hell isn't real
everything is a plot to take away user control by providing a blob product. they push flatpak because it's a blob distribution. it defeats the reason d'etre of open source software
ah, the old dependency hell meme. please tell me when i'm going to run into this, because i haven't for 25 years of using linux
I'm new to linux, like, really new in fact, i only downloaded linux on my secondary computer to thread the waters (fedora xfce), i've recently watched a video on different ways to install stuff.
(Appimage, snap, Flatpack are the only one i know)
Why do some linux user seem to be against those ? you do understand that making linux more practical is fore the best ? the easier linux gets, the more people will start to use it.
all these "futures" always sound interesting until you realize it's put together by incompetent idiots.
Same with flatpak, same with systemd, same with wayland.
I came to realization most of linux desktop devs are incompetent idiots, because there is not much money in it and nobody can hire good people to work on Ubuntu in Canonical or whatever, and all the money goes to server and cloud anyway. So who is left to work on desktop are idiots. And there is no QA because nobody has money for that shit.
So it's better to stick with what works, even when it's shit in other respects, as nobody will do QA and fix bugs on the "new stuff".