>The effects of the Germanics are fricking insane. Why did the Romans assimilate bros?
They didn't.
Which one managed to conquer the whole Mediterranean?
Neither
There is a massive difference between the enemies. Late Rome was essentially fighting enemies at the same tech level. Early Rome was beating up ooga booga tribes, the only peer competition they had was Parthia and they stalled out on them
Dumb meme
>Carthage
Aside from the Libyans and Numidian cavalry, most of the Carthaginians relied on Gallic or Italian allies to supplement their forces. Gallic were shirtless barbarians and the Italian allies were on par with the Romans but were few in number and questionable loyalty. The Libyans were their best infantry but still Greek City-State tier and didn't make up most of the Carthagian army who always supplemented it with mercenaries of some kind. Mercenaries are great for one-sided stomps but in near-peer or battles against superior forces, they're unreliable.
>Macedonia
Greek were still using phalanx/hoplite tactics that were inferior to smaller and maneuverable cohort tactics of the Romans. And the Roman cavalry, as shit as they were, were still better than the Greek's.
>Seleucid
The Persians got btfo'd by the Greeks and the Greeks got btfo'd by the Romans.
Basically, early Rome had superior tech, training, and most of all logistics compared to their contemporaries. Even if Rome suffered comparable losses in battle, their more organized bureaucracy could btfo out of enemies via efficient and effective resupply and fresh legions/reinfrocements.
>Aside from the Libyans and Numidian cavalry, most of the Carthaginians relied on Gallic or Italian allies to supplement their forces.
This is like saying that the Romans weren't impressive because they relied on their Italian allies. >Gallic were shirtless barbarians
The Gauls had organised military practices and did in fact, wear armour. >most of the Carthagian army who always supplemented it with mercenaries of some kind.
They used their allies, that would be no different from calling Samnites and Campanians mercenaries for the Roman state >Greek were still using phalanx/hoplite tactics that were inferior to smaller and maneuverable cohort tactics of the Romans.
The Macedonian army was a professional force and used the Macedonian Phalanx alongside others, they did not use Hoplite warfare. >The Persians got btfo'd by the Greeks and the Greeks got btfo'd by the Romans.
You made no point here
III century collapse happened. Mostly the climate changing did a major blow to agrarian economy. Less food - less people - less taxes - less soldiers. So to keep the borders somewhat intact Rome had to start hiring frontier barbarian tribes.
>Left: Shitty segmented armour which was super immobile and everyone who ever wore it has complained about it, Legionaires often refused to march in it. Protection was mediocre. Open exposed sandals. >Right: Highly effectient and mobile armour, _more difficult and sophisticated_ to produce, easy to march in, best protection on Earth at the time and would be until full plate armour became available. Closed protected leather.
I understand that your complaint is mostly aesthetics and aesthetics are indeed extremely important. But the right kit was just superior in every way.
1) Neither of these kits, middle Roman period is long after colonizing non-Euro meds.
2. Except for Greeks, conquering other meds really isn't much of an achievement.
3. The kit during the Punic war looked more like an early version if right anyway lol.
There is a massive difference between the enemies. Late Rome was essentially fighting enemies at the same tech level. Early Rome was beating up ooga booga tribes, the only peer competition they had was Parthia and they stalled out on them
>Carthage
Aside from the Libyans and Numidian cavalry, most of the Carthaginians relied on Gallic or Italian allies to supplement their forces. Gallic were shirtless barbarians and the Italian allies were on par with the Romans but were few in number and questionable loyalty. The Libyans were their best infantry but still Greek City-State tier and didn't make up most of the Carthagian army who always supplemented it with mercenaries of some kind. Mercenaries are great for one-sided stomps but in near-peer or battles against superior forces, they're unreliable.
>Macedonia
Greek were still using phalanx/hoplite tactics that were inferior to smaller and maneuverable cohort tactics of the Romans. And the Roman cavalry, as shit as they were, were still better than the Greek's.
>Seleucid
The Persians got btfo'd by the Greeks and the Greeks got btfo'd by the Romans.
Basically, early Rome had superior tech, training, and most of all logistics compared to their contemporaries. Even if Rome suffered comparable losses in battle, their more organized bureaucracy could btfo out of enemies via efficient and effective resupply and fresh legions/reinfrocements.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
this is a moronic take besides the bureaucracy bit, which is actually romes whole schtick that and being autistic enough to take the casualties to fully use the bureaucratic state they created to its fullest. But saying they were more technologically advanced then enemies they constantly stole technology from mid war is moronic.
>US fights off a global superpower and conquers an entire continent using just muskets and flintlocks >US later loses to afghan peasants while using M4 carbines and machine guns
"Which one conquered half the world?" - Some moronic anon 1500 years later
I’m sure colonists are going to look far more based than whatever the average soldier looks like a few hundred years from now so unironically yes, you just chose your example for the right too soon
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Take 2 groups of equally well trained guys with identical numbers, training, and morale. Then give 1 side semiautos and the other smoothbore muskets. If you think the latter has a chance you're moronic
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You’re missing the point. Even if right is objectively superior to left in military terms, left represents the empire at its height. Right represents the empire at a point when it had become multicultural and weakened, no longer representative of what originally made the empire great even if it was still powerful. I wouldn’t be surprised if people from the future looked at the stereotypical mutt American soldier from 2124 with high tech gear in the same way
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
So your point is that the armour is irrelevant, it's the character of the people that makes an empire. That's all well and good but we're talking about armour here
>US fights off a global superpower and conquers an entire continent using just muskets and flintlocks
The British Empire wasn't a global superpower in the 1770s lol
Not people wearing segmenta, people wearing basicically the same mail armor as the dude on the right. Hamata was always the more popular even among elite units and the rich.
I think it's a good comparison, actually. The left was made to work in formations, which required everybody to do their job and not try being a hero. That was the part that nobody succeeded to imkitate, not the equipment as such.
The segmentata also required someone else to put it on you and fix it in place. If you were ambushed in the middle of the night you couldn't just throw it on and run to man the ramparts. So either you wasted 3-5 minutes putting it on, or you fought with no armour
Sorry I'm R1b-U106.... sorry! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry! Well it's just you know... I'm just R1b-U106! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
No, the Ostrogoths actually maintained a lot of the old structures and institutions, the Byzantines and Lombards are the ones who really fricked it for good.
>the Byzantines and Lombards are the ones who really fricked it for good.
Byzantine administration was quite literally the exact same in the time of Justinian to that of the 5th century West until the later dissolution of the Prefecture in the West
I was talking about the city of Rome. It fell into decay long before it was sacked. Even before the capitol was moved to Constantinople the population had declined and large parts of the city started falling into ruin.
morons when they realize Lorica Segmentata was only used for a short period of time and most Roman soldiers throughout the centuries used either mail or scale armor
my understanding is that the romans were simply adapting to changing military tactics and equipment. if anything, the classic roman armor and equipment was simply no longer up to the task in dealing with the tactics that the persians and goths were using. the romans had some fairly impressive military victories late in their empire before they split into western/eastern. the fall of the roman empire wasn't so much military but socio-economic.
yeah
Right looks better
>What is your haplogroup status?
R1b-U106
Right looks more effective for soldiering
The effects of the Germanics are fricking insane. Why did the Romans assimilate bros?
>The effects of the Germanics are fricking insane. Why did the Romans assimilate bros?
They didn't.
Neither
Dumb meme
>Aside from the Libyans and Numidian cavalry, most of the Carthaginians relied on Gallic or Italian allies to supplement their forces.
This is like saying that the Romans weren't impressive because they relied on their Italian allies.
>Gallic were shirtless barbarians
The Gauls had organised military practices and did in fact, wear armour.
>most of the Carthagian army who always supplemented it with mercenaries of some kind.
They used their allies, that would be no different from calling Samnites and Campanians mercenaries for the Roman state
>Greek were still using phalanx/hoplite tactics that were inferior to smaller and maneuverable cohort tactics of the Romans.
The Macedonian army was a professional force and used the Macedonian Phalanx alongside others, they did not use Hoplite warfare.
>The Persians got btfo'd by the Greeks and the Greeks got btfo'd by the Romans.
You made no point here
III century collapse happened. Mostly the climate changing did a major blow to agrarian economy. Less food - less people - less taxes - less soldiers. So to keep the borders somewhat intact Rome had to start hiring frontier barbarian tribes.
>Left: Shitty segmented armour which was super immobile and everyone who ever wore it has complained about it, Legionaires often refused to march in it. Protection was mediocre. Open exposed sandals.
>Right: Highly effectient and mobile armour, _more difficult and sophisticated_ to produce, easy to march in, best protection on Earth at the time and would be until full plate armour became available. Closed protected leather.
I understand that your complaint is mostly aesthetics and aesthetics are indeed extremely important. But the right kit was just superior in every way.
Which one managed to conquer the whole Mediterranean?
the one that wasn't fighting people wearing equally good armor
1) Neither of these kits, middle Roman period is long after colonizing non-Euro meds.
2. Except for Greeks, conquering other meds really isn't much of an achievement.
3. The kit during the Punic war looked more like an early version if right anyway lol.
in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
There is a massive difference between the enemies. Late Rome was essentially fighting enemies at the same tech level. Early Rome was beating up ooga booga tribes, the only peer competition they had was Parthia and they stalled out on them
Bro? Carthage? Macedonia? Seleucid?
Humiliation ritual.
>Carthage
Aside from the Libyans and Numidian cavalry, most of the Carthaginians relied on Gallic or Italian allies to supplement their forces. Gallic were shirtless barbarians and the Italian allies were on par with the Romans but were few in number and questionable loyalty. The Libyans were their best infantry but still Greek City-State tier and didn't make up most of the Carthagian army who always supplemented it with mercenaries of some kind. Mercenaries are great for one-sided stomps but in near-peer or battles against superior forces, they're unreliable.
>Macedonia
Greek were still using phalanx/hoplite tactics that were inferior to smaller and maneuverable cohort tactics of the Romans. And the Roman cavalry, as shit as they were, were still better than the Greek's.
>Seleucid
The Persians got btfo'd by the Greeks and the Greeks got btfo'd by the Romans.
Basically, early Rome had superior tech, training, and most of all logistics compared to their contemporaries. Even if Rome suffered comparable losses in battle, their more organized bureaucracy could btfo out of enemies via efficient and effective resupply and fresh legions/reinfrocements.
this is a moronic take besides the bureaucracy bit, which is actually romes whole schtick that and being autistic enough to take the casualties to fully use the bureaucratic state they created to its fullest. But saying they were more technologically advanced then enemies they constantly stole technology from mid war is moronic.
>US fights off a global superpower and conquers an entire continent using just muskets and flintlocks
>US later loses to afghan peasants while using M4 carbines and machine guns
"Which one conquered half the world?" - Some moronic anon 1500 years later
I’m sure colonists are going to look far more based than whatever the average soldier looks like a few hundred years from now so unironically yes, you just chose your example for the right too soon
Take 2 groups of equally well trained guys with identical numbers, training, and morale. Then give 1 side semiautos and the other smoothbore muskets. If you think the latter has a chance you're moronic
You’re missing the point. Even if right is objectively superior to left in military terms, left represents the empire at its height. Right represents the empire at a point when it had become multicultural and weakened, no longer representative of what originally made the empire great even if it was still powerful. I wouldn’t be surprised if people from the future looked at the stereotypical mutt American soldier from 2124 with high tech gear in the same way
So your point is that the armour is irrelevant, it's the character of the people that makes an empire. That's all well and good but we're talking about armour here
>US fights off a global superpower and conquers an entire continent using just muskets and flintlocks
The British Empire wasn't a global superpower in the 1770s lol
Not people wearing segmenta, people wearing basicically the same mail armor as the dude on the right. Hamata was always the more popular even among elite units and the rich.
I think it's a good comparison, actually. The left was made to work in formations, which required everybody to do their job and not try being a hero. That was the part that nobody succeeded to imkitate, not the equipment as such.
The segmentata also required someone else to put it on you and fix it in place. If you were ambushed in the middle of the night you couldn't just throw it on and run to man the ramparts. So either you wasted 3-5 minutes putting it on, or you fought with no armour
Pants are only worn by the barbarians
Imagine not being I1
Sorry I'm R1b-U106.... sorry! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry! Well it's just you know... I'm just R1b-U106! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Imagine not being I1
Sorry!
Imagine not being I1
Teehee!
heh, thanks christians and germans!
I love that Jesus Christ favored us Germanics 🙂
Praise be to God!
Rome fell into decays centuries before that.
No, the Ostrogoths actually maintained a lot of the old structures and institutions, the Byzantines and Lombards are the ones who really fricked it for good.
>the Byzantines and Lombards are the ones who really fricked it for good.
Byzantine administration was quite literally the exact same in the time of Justinian to that of the 5th century West until the later dissolution of the Prefecture in the West
I was talking about the city of Rome. It fell into decay long before it was sacked. Even before the capitol was moved to Constantinople the population had declined and large parts of the city started falling into ruin.
Bottom right looks better than bottom left. No shitty apartment blocks, lower population density, and more greenery.
Christianity kept Rome alive much longer than it would've survived without it
from Chad soldier to onions dadbod
Everything here improved THOUGH
I1 btw
morons when they realize Lorica Segmentata was only used for a short period of time and most Roman soldiers throughout the centuries used either mail or scale armor
chainmail is more effective than plate armor
What Abrahamism does to a homie
That fricking Christcuck Diocletian... can't even say his name
Judaism is Greek
Jews notoriously killed thousands of eastern Greek civilians in the Kitos war before daddy Rome intervened and btfo'd them.
my understanding is that the romans were simply adapting to changing military tactics and equipment. if anything, the classic roman armor and equipment was simply no longer up to the task in dealing with the tactics that the persians and goths were using. the romans had some fairly impressive military victories late in their empire before they split into western/eastern. the fall of the roman empire wasn't so much military but socio-economic.
Rome has fallen, Billions must be serfs and die of the plague.