you WILL reject title bars
you WILL reject toolbars
you WILL reject labels
you WILL accept discord troon design
you WILL accept gigantic margins
you WILL accept electron
you WILL accept flat design
you WILL eat the bugs
you WILL live in pods
you WILL become gay
you WILL transition
>you WILL accept electron
It does look like electron doesn't it. I really hope they won't implement such troonery. Thunderbirds is actually the best non-cli mail client. If we loose that we are left with subpar projects.
>
i doubt it
thunderbird already has all the benefits of electron due to using firefox's engine
redoing it in chromium's engine doesn't make much sense
Why would you want title bars and toolbars? The one worst part of modern Linux. Every program has giant top margin of useless items. Only few like Firefox can remove it and even then it's hidden under about:customize or something.
>The one worst part of modern Linux
do other systems do it differently?
2 years ago
Anonymous
At least on Windows very few programs have toolbars. Title bar is integrated with program controls. So every window takes a lot less space. For example title bar can include tabs, settings, status, icons for notification etc. Not really title bar.
Screen doesn't feel so cramped with empty title and toolbars.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>what is CSD
2 years ago
Anonymous
Thats what most programs do on Windows ye. On Linux I've noticed there's the programs own top bar. Then there's toolbar on top of that. And title bar on top of that tool bar. 3 bars on top of so many windows by default. At least Firefox let's you customize it to remove the stupidity.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Then there's toolbar on top of that. And title bar on top of that tool bar. 3 bars on top of so many windows by default.
Stop using shitty KDE apps.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Happens in gnome and cinnamon as well. Maybe there's no universal way to customize it for all the environments easily. So developers don't.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Happens in gnome and cinnamon as well. Maybe there's no universal way to customize it for all the environments easily. So developers don't.
Just turn off the border in whatever WM you are using. This is trivial.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Then you cannot arrange, drag, close or overall manage the windows using your mouse.
Which sucks even more.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>arrange, drag [...] using your mouse
Yes you can moron. Alt+click. >close
This one depends more on the application admittedly (whether or not it has CSD). You could always just bind whatever the close/quit command is on your window manager to some mouse click + key combination if you really must close a window with a mouse instead of a key binding.
2 years ago
Anonymous
For example look at the email client at
>it'll now be able to show less
What the frick are you talking about stupid boomer LARPing moron
Almost 30% of the window is just the 3 top bars. It's the default
2 years ago
Anonymous
Happens in gnome and cinnamon as well. Maybe there's no universal way to customize it for all the environments easily. So developers don't.
Those are legacy gtk2 apps. Modern Linux apps are space-efficient.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>this huge margin shit which barely fits 8 e-mails in the list >space-efficient
2 years ago
Anonymous
Margins are important for readability. If you actually used an email client for actual work, you'd know.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I can read stuff with half the margins of your screenshot just fine, I'm not a small child who needs big fonts and pictures everywhere.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sure, you are a big boy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
More actually makes it less readable. Scroll homie.
2 years ago
Anonymous
no?
2 years ago
Anonymous
That top bar is getting much better ye. Very minimal while still giving most options. It still has rooms for the default minimize and maximize buttons. Wonder why they didn't include them with the x.
The only programs I use that don't have a normal title bar are Firefox and Thunderbird.
What kind of programs are you using?
On Windows pretty much none of the programs have normal title bar. Vscode, terminal, chat clients, games, password manager, file explorer, office tools.
>arrange, drag [...] using your mouse
Yes you can moron. Alt+click. >close
This one depends more on the application admittedly (whether or not it has CSD). You could always just bind whatever the close/quit command is on your window manager to some mouse click + key combination if you really must close a window with a mouse instead of a key binding.
Alt click means you use your keyboard. I prefer less things to worry about. I feel like I had trouble scaling the windows after disabling borders as well. As well as with minimizing.
>Almost 30% of the window is just the 3 top bars.
sure the buttons could be smaller, but the only reason it's taking up 30% is because the window is 800x600
let's see how well the new thunderbird desgin works at that resolution
Not just the buttons. Even that claw ui could combine the top 3 bars into one bar. The top bars shouldn't use more than 10% of window estate tbh. Instead of toolbar can fit more buttons on the button bar. Instead of whole row for title and _ [] X can fit controls in corner of toolbar and title can be removed.
Saved 20% of window with small changes. I imagine it's just lots of work for dev to customize it which sucks.
2 years ago
Anonymous
windows explorer has a title bar, wtf are you talking about
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ah true. It's so over shadowed by the menu itself I honestly didn't even notice it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Wonder why they didn't include them with the x.
GNOME has no minimization and maximize is double click the title/toolbar
2 years ago
Anonymous
It has minimization. I think the shortcut is super+H. And you can configure the window buttons in gnome-tweaks to have minimize and maximize.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Vscode,
electronshit >terminal,
command prompt, powershell, putty, git bash all have a title bar >chat clients,
electronshit >games,
most games have title bars when in windowed mode >password manager,
keepass has a title bar >file explorer, office tools.
explorer has a title bar, excel too
it's pretty much only web browsers and electron apps that don't have title bars
2 years ago
Anonymous
powershell & git bash are used through a terminal (cmd or the new MS shell)
don't have a GUI on their own
2 years ago
Anonymous
okay fair enough
don't know why that would matter to me as an end user
2 years ago
Anonymous
cmd has a titlebar for me. So does powershell.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I use windows terminal since it's so superior to awful powershell or command prompt. At least can modify fonts, colors and get wsl easily.
Excel kinda has. It includes saving and few useful buttons in title bar. Similar with windows explorer that still has at least something in title bar. Linux has absolutely nothing there.
Also only now I see that you did focus on title bar. None of them have the drop down additional menu of Linux programs. Only the apps own buttons and controls.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>None of them have the drop down additional menu of Linux programs.
the menu bar? lots of windows programs have it
notepad++, sublime text, even task manager has one
2 years ago
Anonymous
>gtk3
Take your CSDs and shove them so far up your ass your stomach becomes a GNOME logo.
My monitor is big, and my eyesight is shot at my age, just give me a normal UI scaled larger. Don't frick with the title bar.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Frick off back to your 1950's LARPing cave stupid boomer LARPing nigroid. Title bars are a literal waste of space, get a monitor with a usable resolution and stop using your 42 inch 768p TV from the late 2000s as your monitor.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>stop using your 42 inch 768p TV from the late 2000s as your monitor.
kek, I actually do this. It's 1080p though.
>Title bars are a literal waste of space
No, they aren't. Title bars are where you put window controls and the window title. The vertical height can be variable, but you do need them.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>but you do need them.
No you don't. The only use of a titlebar is to house the window control button which can be embedded in a headerbar along with other useful widgets (search, dropdowns, menus etc).
2 years ago
Anonymous
>putting unrelated shit title bar because UI design
Just put the application-specific widgets in the bar below the title bar. The title bar is the operating system / window manager's responsibility.
It's the normal way to lay out an application, and the result is still shorter than CSD bullshit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>and the result is still shorter than CSD bullshit.
That's a lie.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Just look at
What an idiotic waste of screen space. Looks like it can fit 7 e-mails in the list on a high-res screen. Old Thunderbird can fit dozens in less space.
. The title bar is compact, and the file menu is too.
The bar for searching / getting messages is a separate application component, although that could also be shrunk down a bit by removing images.
3 small bars with isolated purposes instead of one fat bar that tries to do too much. Reminds of how Microsoft ruined Word by introducing the Ribbon in like '09.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You can have compact headerbars too, two horizontal bars are ALWAYS going to take more space than one.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Almost 30% of the window is just the 3 top bars.
sure the buttons could be smaller, but the only reason it's taking up 30% is because the window is 800x600
let's see how well the new thunderbird desgin works at that resolution
2 years ago
Anonymous
The only programs I use that don't have a normal title bar are Firefox and Thunderbird.
What kind of programs are you using?
2 years ago
Anonymous
so basically GNOME?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I tried gnome and still had similar problems. Granted it was two years ago. Went back to windows on desktop and mint for old laptop.
>you WILL reject title bars >you WILL reject toolbars >you WILL reject labels >you WILL accept discord troon design >you WILL accept gigantic margins >you WILL accept electron >you WILL accept flat design
ok >you WILL eat the bugs >you WILL live in pods >you WILL become gay >you WILL transition
no + meds & bbc
>title bars
still available >toolbars
still present >labels
still present >discord troon design
one click to disable, or disabled if you upgraded from not having it >gigantic margins
one click to disable, or disabled if you upgraded from not having it >electron
not electron >flat design
looks the same to me post-update >bugs, pods, gay, transition
you think about trannies a lot? they aren't really a part of my life so i wonder why you keep running into them everywhere.
look
I'm not necessarily opposed to side-bar controls, because modern screens are all 16:9 so vertical space is more valuable than horizontal space
but why the FRICK does this try to look like a goddamned "web 2.5" PWA google plus clone?
>tons of fricking useless whitespace everywhere >muh materialdesign zcontrast >bloated to frick list of emails (likely without an option to condense all that supid wasted space) >moved controls to sides to recover vertical space, put a giant fricking search box in the top middle leaving TONS OF WASTED VERTICAL SPACE
it's bad because it takes all the bad aspects of modern designs and mashes them together in a pile of aids
why do you bother using gui programs or commenting in threads about gui programs when it's obvious you want just some text based console bullshit at 6pt font
take your meds
I prefer GUIs over a console in most cases
but the GUI needs to be fricking usable
classic firefox was usable
classic thunderbird was usable
windows 9x UI standards were usable
? What about if I want to open a saved message on my computer, something that is usually File->Open?
I'm not even bullshitting, where the frick is the shit that used to be under alt menu -> Help? Why is the menu missing at all?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>muh version number
Not only you are catching on the straw, you are pretty fricking moronic. Tell me what useful information was removed from the mail reader?
2 years ago
Anonymous
So I'm going to find the application's about setup somewhere in the gear icon? Where? What will I see when I get there? Is it modal or non-modal?
Also, I gave a different example opening a saved message from a file location, something I have to do at work pretty regularly to pull up an old thread. >Tell me what useful information was removed from the mail reader?
Primarily, the ability to find shit. I'll have to google where stuff was moved to and how many subpages they shuffled the menus around to.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>So I'm going to find the application's about setup somewhere in the gear icon?
Yes. This is not new. Take your mental gymnastics elsewhere.
Thats just like troons though. Using tiling wms because they "save space" and are "keyboard oriented" and then put huge gaps everywhere and rice rofi to be a mouse operated menu.
>just because it uses less than 50% of window area for actual content?
then open the mail in a new tab/windows, wheres the problem? literally every email client works like this, including current thunderbird
For some reason Thunderbird has been getting more and more funding over the year after being spinned off by Mozilla. It's far from abandonware. It helps that it is the only real competition to outlook.
>Does it still need Davmail or paid extensions for Outlook and OWA addresses?
Only if your organization disables IMAP. And OAuth2 has to be configured manually for some reason.
i don't care to look for one but presumably there's been some cve in the rendering engine since then, so if you have html enabled, then your fricked!!!!!
2 years ago
Anonymous
>html enabled
Who does that?
You can't trust Mozilla with HTML.
They fricking suck at that.
i installed roundcube as a fallback but i never use it
why would i use a webmail client with limited features and high latency, when i can just not do that
Thats the wpfui isn't it, i'm seeing that everywhere lately.
My toolkit program to easily handle my laptops specific brand of autism changed over to that and it takes more clicks to do the same thing, its pure bloat, reverted immediately.
god damn it looked like shit
better usability, probably, but cmon
(also it's funny how 4chin neets b***h about email when all they use it for is their *booru signups)
Why do winshit and linux developers give zero shits about producing apps consistent with the system design?
Nearly every developer for macOS, whether they're publish on the app store or on their own, follows the interface guidelines Apple sets out. So all apps are predictable and look consistent.
Plebs that don't understand the value of aesthetics in all avenues of life are NGMI.
When did "modern design" become a competition of who can make their margins the biggest and waste the most space? Designers should all be fired because they all they do is follow moronic zoomer trends instead of actually making usable software.
When we realized humans can only keep about 7 entities of anything in their head at any given time and it's more useful to let them browse those 7 things with big fonts and comfy margins than clutter the screen with things they won't be able to process.
>open up your email client for the thousandth time >hoo boy, I'm ready to process the 10 entities like it's my first time seeing them, hold back my calls, Sharon
Completelly fricking wrong as I can remember 12 months of the year, 26 letters of the alphabet, and alll sorts of shit that come in more than 7, without having to make an extra effort to dig into my memory.
This is a myth with very little scientific basis these days, pretty much rejected in academia now. The outcome of designing for this was making people objective more stupid, with smaller memories.
Based. I tried going the minimautist route with neomutt, but it filtered me. For some things, I just want my shit to work without tweaking configs and studying keybinds.
can claws sign in with gmail accounts
Yes, if you generate an app password on your Google account's settings.
i figured you meant electron-like, as in it's a glorified web application, which it is, but no, it's not literally electron
2 years ago
Anonymous
how come they cloned the typical electron appearance? what's their fricking problem? why do they keep fricking everything up? no one asks for this shit
The reason I use Thunderbird is because it doesn't look like this.
Are there any decent email clients left (for windows) or do I just have to disable updates?
same, i used to use thunderbird because it was how outlook /used/ to look like
now i use claws because it's how thunderbird used to look like
call me old but i have my preferences
Doesn't condensing things into non-standardised ultra-minimalist icons with no accompanying text break every set of human-machine interaction guidelines ever written?
you WILL accept pointless titlebars
you WILL accept stacked toolbars
you WILL accept everything being labeled
you WILL LOVE text dumps
you WILL LOVE tiny margins
Are you gays really going to sperg out over this? If you want some classic UI or whatever I'm sure you can use whatever skin/UI customization setup that will make it feel like the old hasn't been updated for a decade thunderbird you remember. Thats the point of it being FOSS and about customization. However the default aesthetic being "similar to what everyone else uses" is understandable to a degree especially given how Thunderbird has been overtaken by so many others.
The bigger issue is that its finally getting a functionality update. I want to see it able to work with modern, e2e encrypted mail sites like Proton where even the subject and other stuff can be encrypted, besides it acting like POP/IMAP from 1999 alone. Thunderbird finally getting new features (like labels that are compatible with major webmail filtering. When average fricking user has Gmail split into Priority, Updates, Promotions, Social or whatever mailboxes and Thunderbird isn't compatible they just frick off and use webmail) is the important thing and I hope they do it right. Being able to customize the UI is pretty much a given, so you can set up your own brand of autism if you desire
Are they just talking about the old way? Like remember when everyone was talking about how Firefox would no longer be able to customize shit and it was all sky-is-falling after an update, or how there would be no addons or about:config or whatever the frick? It didn't turn out like that.
If they want to tell people that the exact css files or whatever they used a decade ago won't work anymore that's a big difference from "you won't be able to do anything anymore, this is the only UI for you enjoy". Don't get me wrong if the latter is really the case that's hugely shitty and people will obviously object, but lets confirm what's actually going on.
Thunderbird is literally based on Firefox. either this one reddit post from a Thunderbird employee is a confirmation Mozilla will remove userChrome.css support from Firefox, or Thunderbird will specifically disable the toolkit.legacyUserProfileCustomizations.stylesheets pref just to piss you off.
or, he might just be telling us the specific css snippet the redditor suggested might stop working some point in the future
Better than sour grapes "why can't they just use the CLI, it doesn't need a GUI" or "The only game we need on Linux is fricking Tux Racer" tantrums. People will just frick off and leave unless you have Apple level cultists who will accept "you're holding it wrong" bullshit.
There's no reason you can't support the old things while also updating it so that it provides support for things people want and use outside of a bunch of graybeards or autists from the 90s. FOSS should be leading the way but to do that projects need to evolve in cases like this. People don't use mail the same way they did in the 90s with only the features available at the time. Thunderbird isn't like mutt or pine or whatever the frick where it is designed just for that, during it prominence it had similar features and in many cases better ones than proprietary competitors, was more capable of being extended and modded, and overall better for many use cases.
>similar to what everyone else uses
What's the point of multiple email clients existing when they're all the same?
Default UIs or whatever doesn't mean they're all the same under the hood. If the other ones are not FOSS, or can't be modded or whatever that's a bigger difference. Lots of browsers have standardized around a Chrome/ium like UI because of its popularity, but Firefox is still meaningfully different in many ways on the surface and as far as core features are concerned.
When did IQfy become infested with underage morons who follow newest webshit design trends? This is clearly a step backwards, it'll now be able to show less than half the emails in the list it used to.
Your screenshot shows 7 e-mails. The Claws screenshot shows 10.
Yes, the Subject and From fields are tiny, you have to scroll horizontally to see every column, the e-mail itself is the size of a post-it note, and a vertical view would reduce the subject line to one single word. But at least it's not made by trannies. Disgusting, smelly trannies. And it shows more e-mails.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Yes, the Subject and From fields are tiny,
Enter the mental gymnastics > But at least it's not made by trannies. Disgusting, smelly trannies.
m-muh troony waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa > And it shows more e-mails.
Shows 10 lines of nothing. As opposed to 7 emails that has a highlight of the content. Keep coping stupid Black person.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Shows 10 lines of nothing.
It shows 10 lines of useful information. Thunderturd's zoomer UI doesn't even show you the year in the date field.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>bb-b-b-buy m-muh YEAR field!1!!
LMAO
2 years ago
Anonymous
You will never be a real time traveler.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the Subject and From fields are tiny, you have to scroll horizontally to see every column, the e-mail itself is the size of a post-it note, and a vertical view would reduce the subject line to one single word.
because the whole window is 800x600 unlike the OP pic which is 2000x1200 you utter fricking moron
this UI might work good when you are using one e-mail account, but will definitely suck at handling multiple accounts. Too bad the only reason I use thunderbird over webclients is the ability to handle multiple account at the same time.
thunderbird has always been a XUL application, meaning it has always been functionally the same as electron, this is not a new thing
you're just now recognising it as a "web app" because it looks like other modern web apps
2 years ago
Anonymous
XUL isn't html, though.
It does. HTML email is a thing and it's pretty common.
but the protocols for sending and receiving email have nothing to do with HTML, and you don't
actually need to read HTML emails.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>XUL isn't html, though.
no, it's not /exactly/ the same as electron in the sense that the application code could run on another browser engine, since XUL is specific to one engine, but it is does run entirely on a browser engine, similar to electron apps
put another way, you can't remove or disable the browser part of thunderbird, because the whole UI uses it, it's a browser skinned up as a mail client, it actually used to be part of a browser + mail client combination called mozilla internet suite, before splitting off into thunderbird and firefox
2 years ago
Anonymous
>browser + mail client combination called mozilla internet suite
Things were better back then. Why can't we go back?
2 years ago
Anonymous
seamonkey exists which is a maintained version of mozilla internet suite
Why?
If I wanted my mail client to look like that, I'd use Google or Office.
Much like "If I wanted my browser to look like that, I'd use Chrome."
Frick Mozilla. Seriously. I hope people will come around to maintain a fork with the final acceptable UI.
>use interlink >don't have this problem
Only issue is that you need to trust Fatt A. Tobin to not torpedo the project in the near future, otherwise it's just an old Thunderbird fork.
Frick native look & feel, just stop fricking with GUI layouts. We figured out how a window should look in 1989.
Nineteen eighty fricking nine.
Windows 95 / 98 improved it a little bit, and Windows XP looked like it was for toddlers but had the pieces in the right place. GNOME 2 and KDE 3 were okay in most regards.
Everything after was shit.
it's weird. windows 95 had a ton of research put into its interface design, as well as building on extensive research by xerox parc and so on. it was extensively tested by many users and was a well considered design that focused on usability.
where is the focus now? there is great emphasis on "design" (i.e., make every software application look like a generic SaaS webapp), but no emphasis on usability concerns such as visual cues and consistency. also, it seems like most testing done today is of abusive metrics like "user engagement", which just means "how addictive is our app?" watching and helping ordinary people use software has grown increasingly painful in the electron era, and it's because every program is inconsistent in some way (often, even with itself) and there aren't enough visual cues and labels to clarify what some part of the UI actually does. do companies just not give a frick if people can use their software anymore?
>where is the focus now? there is great emphasis on "design" (i.e., make every software application look like a generic SaaS webapp), but no emphasis on usability
"Design" make great promotional material for the cattle, its bright, its flashy, its the "new" thing. Its what sells the product
Usability does not sells, because it comes after the sale.
For those same reasons its all about webshit interfaces without any consistency now. so that they are "unique" to each program to "emphasize brand recognition".
Also forcibly reinventing the wheel every few months to be "fresh and modern" comes at the cost of not just discarding past decisions but also getting rid of the few good ones that spawn from time to time.
WHERE'S MY DARK MODE
Please mozilla don't make thunderbird more troonware than it already was
you WILL reject title bars
you WILL reject toolbars
you WILL reject labels
you WILL accept discord troon design
you WILL accept gigantic margins
you WILL accept electron
you WILL accept flat design
you WILL eat the bugs
you WILL live in pods
you WILL become gay
you WILL transition
>you WILL accept electron
It does look like electron doesn't it. I really hope they won't implement such troonery. Thunderbirds is actually the best non-cli mail client. If we loose that we are left with subpar projects.
someone fork it before it's too late. white man loves his old reliable shit.
>old designgay
>can't fork by himself
Checks out
It was always using XUL/Gecko, and I doubt it will ever change. It's just the UI.
>
i doubt it
thunderbird already has all the benefits of electron due to using firefox's engine
redoing it in chromium's engine doesn't make much sense
Why would you want title bars and toolbars? The one worst part of modern Linux. Every program has giant top margin of useless items. Only few like Firefox can remove it and even then it's hidden under about:customize or something.
>The one worst part of modern Linux
do other systems do it differently?
At least on Windows very few programs have toolbars. Title bar is integrated with program controls. So every window takes a lot less space. For example title bar can include tabs, settings, status, icons for notification etc. Not really title bar.
Screen doesn't feel so cramped with empty title and toolbars.
>what is CSD
Thats what most programs do on Windows ye. On Linux I've noticed there's the programs own top bar. Then there's toolbar on top of that. And title bar on top of that tool bar. 3 bars on top of so many windows by default. At least Firefox let's you customize it to remove the stupidity.
>Then there's toolbar on top of that. And title bar on top of that tool bar. 3 bars on top of so many windows by default.
Stop using shitty KDE apps.
Happens in gnome and cinnamon as well. Maybe there's no universal way to customize it for all the environments easily. So developers don't.
Just turn off the border in whatever WM you are using. This is trivial.
Then you cannot arrange, drag, close or overall manage the windows using your mouse.
Which sucks even more.
>arrange, drag [...] using your mouse
Yes you can moron. Alt+click.
>close
This one depends more on the application admittedly (whether or not it has CSD). You could always just bind whatever the close/quit command is on your window manager to some mouse click + key combination if you really must close a window with a mouse instead of a key binding.
For example look at the email client at
Almost 30% of the window is just the 3 top bars. It's the default
Those are legacy gtk2 apps. Modern Linux apps are space-efficient.
>this huge margin shit which barely fits 8 e-mails in the list
>space-efficient
Margins are important for readability. If you actually used an email client for actual work, you'd know.
I can read stuff with half the margins of your screenshot just fine, I'm not a small child who needs big fonts and pictures everywhere.
Sure, you are a big boy.
More actually makes it less readable. Scroll homie.
no?
That top bar is getting much better ye. Very minimal while still giving most options. It still has rooms for the default minimize and maximize buttons. Wonder why they didn't include them with the x.
On Windows pretty much none of the programs have normal title bar. Vscode, terminal, chat clients, games, password manager, file explorer, office tools.
Alt click means you use your keyboard. I prefer less things to worry about. I feel like I had trouble scaling the windows after disabling borders as well. As well as with minimizing.
Not just the buttons. Even that claw ui could combine the top 3 bars into one bar. The top bars shouldn't use more than 10% of window estate tbh. Instead of toolbar can fit more buttons on the button bar. Instead of whole row for title and _ [] X can fit controls in corner of toolbar and title can be removed.
Saved 20% of window with small changes. I imagine it's just lots of work for dev to customize it which sucks.
windows explorer has a title bar, wtf are you talking about
Ah true. It's so over shadowed by the menu itself I honestly didn't even notice it.
>Wonder why they didn't include them with the x.
GNOME has no minimization and maximize is double click the title/toolbar
It has minimization. I think the shortcut is super+H. And you can configure the window buttons in gnome-tweaks to have minimize and maximize.
>Vscode,
electronshit
>terminal,
command prompt, powershell, putty, git bash all have a title bar
>chat clients,
electronshit
>games,
most games have title bars when in windowed mode
>password manager,
keepass has a title bar
>file explorer, office tools.
explorer has a title bar, excel too
it's pretty much only web browsers and electron apps that don't have title bars
powershell & git bash are used through a terminal (cmd or the new MS shell)
don't have a GUI on their own
okay fair enough
don't know why that would matter to me as an end user
cmd has a titlebar for me. So does powershell.
I use windows terminal since it's so superior to awful powershell or command prompt. At least can modify fonts, colors and get wsl easily.
Excel kinda has. It includes saving and few useful buttons in title bar. Similar with windows explorer that still has at least something in title bar. Linux has absolutely nothing there.
Also only now I see that you did focus on title bar. None of them have the drop down additional menu of Linux programs. Only the apps own buttons and controls.
>None of them have the drop down additional menu of Linux programs.
the menu bar? lots of windows programs have it
notepad++, sublime text, even task manager has one
>gtk3
Take your CSDs and shove them so far up your ass your stomach becomes a GNOME logo.
My monitor is big, and my eyesight is shot at my age, just give me a normal UI scaled larger. Don't frick with the title bar.
Frick off back to your 1950's LARPing cave stupid boomer LARPing nigroid. Title bars are a literal waste of space, get a monitor with a usable resolution and stop using your 42 inch 768p TV from the late 2000s as your monitor.
>stop using your 42 inch 768p TV from the late 2000s as your monitor.
kek, I actually do this. It's 1080p though.
>Title bars are a literal waste of space
No, they aren't. Title bars are where you put window controls and the window title. The vertical height can be variable, but you do need them.
>but you do need them.
No you don't. The only use of a titlebar is to house the window control button which can be embedded in a headerbar along with other useful widgets (search, dropdowns, menus etc).
>putting unrelated shit title bar because UI design
Just put the application-specific widgets in the bar below the title bar. The title bar is the operating system / window manager's responsibility.
It's the normal way to lay out an application, and the result is still shorter than CSD bullshit.
>and the result is still shorter than CSD bullshit.
That's a lie.
Just look at
. The title bar is compact, and the file menu is too.
The bar for searching / getting messages is a separate application component, although that could also be shrunk down a bit by removing images.
3 small bars with isolated purposes instead of one fat bar that tries to do too much. Reminds of how Microsoft ruined Word by introducing the Ribbon in like '09.
You can have compact headerbars too, two horizontal bars are ALWAYS going to take more space than one.
>Almost 30% of the window is just the 3 top bars.
sure the buttons could be smaller, but the only reason it's taking up 30% is because the window is 800x600
let's see how well the new thunderbird desgin works at that resolution
The only programs I use that don't have a normal title bar are Firefox and Thunderbird.
What kind of programs are you using?
so basically GNOME?
I tried gnome and still had similar problems. Granted it was two years ago. Went back to windows on desktop and mint for old laptop.
Just use a WM that lets you turn off SSD or whatever.
>you WILL accept gigantic margins
This probabbly pisses me off the most. Just why?
because ADHD zoomer homosexuals are unable to concentrate on a single line of text if it's 50 pixels in range of another shiny clicky element.
I have ADHD and out of the many things that make it hard for me to concentrate on text the margins are not one of them at all
The proposal includes compact density option that looks much more reasonable. This won't be out until thunderbird 114 in 2023 so plenty of time
>you WILL reject title bars
>you WILL reject toolbars
>you WILL reject labels
>you WILL accept discord troon design
>you WILL accept gigantic margins
>you WILL accept electron
>you WILL accept flat design
ok
>you WILL eat the bugs
>you WILL live in pods
>you WILL become gay
>you WILL transition
no + meds & bbc
kys
meds & bbc now chud
>meds & bbc
meds
You will make assumptions about what customization options are, or are not present in the settings.
>AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY
>title bars
still available
>toolbars
still present
>labels
still present
>discord troon design
one click to disable, or disabled if you upgraded from not having it
>gigantic margins
one click to disable, or disabled if you upgraded from not having it
>electron
not electron
>flat design
looks the same to me post-update
>bugs, pods, gay, transition
you think about trannies a lot? they aren't really a part of my life so i wonder why you keep running into them everywhere.
>you WILL become gay
but women are objectively more attractive than men
Sorry anon, I value intellect and common sense when choosing a partner.
>common sense
commoners want to murder children in the womb
tell us how you feel about babies and children getting killed by russia's invasion in ukraine
I don't think mozilla maintains it anymore.
Thank god.
brainwashed drone trying to deal with the fact that mozilla software is actually good.
Let's see if he can snap out of his pre-programmed behavior.
Thunderbird has been independent since 2012. Which makes sense because that's about the last time Firefox wasn't shit.
>mozilla software is actually good
??
thundernig is not sanctioned by the mozilla foundation anymore, they're more like "donors" to them now.
>troonware
what's troonware?
garbage software developed and tailored for troons, designed by troons.
it's alright i guess, current one is pretty good as well
Looks clean and modern. Why do people hate it again?
Because it's clean and modern
Because it doesn't have that rugged early 2000s aesthetic people here seem to love
>people here
back you go
>Let's show 7 emails in the same space that showed 40 before
it's objectively worse
look
I'm not necessarily opposed to side-bar controls, because modern screens are all 16:9 so vertical space is more valuable than horizontal space
but why the FRICK does this try to look like a goddamned "web 2.5" PWA google plus clone?
>tons of fricking useless whitespace everywhere
>muh materialdesign zcontrast
>bloated to frick list of emails (likely without an option to condense all that supid wasted space)
>moved controls to sides to recover vertical space, put a giant fricking search box in the top middle leaving TONS OF WASTED VERTICAL SPACE
it's bad because it takes all the bad aspects of modern designs and mashes them together in a pile of aids
why do you bother using gui programs or commenting in threads about gui programs when it's obvious you want just some text based console bullshit at 6pt font
take your meds
I prefer GUIs over a console in most cases
but the GUI needs to be fricking usable
classic firefox was usable
classic thunderbird was usable
windows 9x UI standards were usable
frick modern web UI cancer
It's different
"clean and modern" UI in today's world means:
>look we oversimplified everything and removed essential information as to not overload literal babies!
What essential information was removed?
The text on the menu items, for one. Where would I locate help or version number information in
? What about if I want to open a saved message on my computer, something that is usually File->Open?
I'm not even bullshitting, where the frick is the shit that used to be under alt menu -> Help? Why is the menu missing at all?
>muh version number
Not only you are catching on the straw, you are pretty fricking moronic. Tell me what useful information was removed from the mail reader?
So I'm going to find the application's about setup somewhere in the gear icon? Where? What will I see when I get there? Is it modal or non-modal?
Also, I gave a different example opening a saved message from a file location, something I have to do at work pretty regularly to pull up an old thread.
>Tell me what useful information was removed from the mail reader?
Primarily, the ability to find shit. I'll have to google where stuff was moved to and how many subpages they shuffled the menus around to.
>So I'm going to find the application's about setup somewhere in the gear icon?
Yes. This is not new. Take your mental gymnastics elsewhere.
I don't care what it looks like as long as I can import my account settings and everything keeps working.
That looks cool and modern. I thought they had abandoned it already though?
>cool
for whom? troons that's who
>modern
just because it uses less than 50% of window area for actual content?
Thats just like troons though. Using tiling wms because they "save space" and are "keyboard oriented" and then put huge gaps everywhere and rice rofi to be a mouse operated menu.
>rice rofi to be a mouse operated menu
those are the ones that want a floating wm but use tiling one because floating wms are crap
The current UI/UX scheme is far too busy. An example of a well-designed one is Discord.
hahahahahahahahah
Do you think having a penis and balls is "far too busy" as well?
you are fricking idiot
Too busy for who? Baby bird brain zoomers with no ability to use their eyes and pay attention?
>just because it uses less than 50% of window area for actual content?
then open the mail in a new tab/windows, wheres the problem? literally every email client works like this, including current thunderbird
>everything is shit, this is fine!
My email client has almost no wasted space.
UI's have been getting worse since WXP, the hell is going on?
For some reason Thunderbird has been getting more and more funding over the year after being spinned off by Mozilla. It's far from abandonware. It helps that it is the only real competition to outlook.
Does it still need Davmail or paid extensions for Outlook and OWA addresses?
>Does it still need Davmail or paid extensions for Outlook and OWA addresses?
Only if your organization disables IMAP. And OAuth2 has to be configured manually for some reason.
looks good
Is the thread view still therr? That's the only thing I care about
is it still a massive ram hog?
Sorry, but I'll just not update!
Enjoy your exploits moron
Such as?
Uhhmm, eeehhhmm, you could receive an email with a dangerous link!!11
i don't care to look for one but presumably there's been some cve in the rendering engine since then, so if you have html enabled, then your fricked!!!!!
>html enabled
Who does that?
You can't trust Mozilla with HTML.
They fricking suck at that.
rip the last sane email client
please kill me too
Who the frick uses mail clients?
People who have their own webserver i assume
just install a webmail client on the mail server
>webshit
i installed roundcube as a fallback but i never use it
why would i use a webmail client with limited features and high latency, when i can just not do that
that looks like shit
I have multiple email addresses, thunderbird puts them all in one place
zoom zoom
really who even uses email these days? i just use discord for everything
>really who even uses email these days?
adults
What's wrong with menu bars?
What's wrong with status bars?
It simply feels like modern UI design changes to the worse simply because they want to change ANYTHING
Will this break compatibility with the, for example GNU PGP add-on?
Isn't OpenPGP integrated into Thunderbird?
NTA and I haven't used it myself, but I just checked, and yes.
As long as it's not electron, I dont mind the redesign
Imagine using a mail client in 2022
Thunderbird still exists?
Thats the wpfui isn't it, i'm seeing that everywhere lately.
My toolkit program to easily handle my laptops specific brand of autism changed over to that and it takes more clicks to do the same thing, its pure bloat, reverted immediately.
Why put calendar and tasks(?) shortcuts on both left and right of the interface?
looks good but i like the original design better because it's comfy.
What an idiotic waste of screen space. Looks like it can fit 7 e-mails in the list on a high-res screen. Old Thunderbird can fit dozens in less space.
such a nice email client you got there that the email content is given 10 text lines
god damn it looked like shit
better usability, probably, but cmon
(also it's funny how 4chin neets b***h about email when all they use it for is their *booru signups)
>complains about wasted space
>"Welcome to Thunderbird!" takes up half of the screen
Looks pretty dope, time to re-download it
I like the new outlook.
Why do winshit and linux developers give zero shits about producing apps consistent with the system design?
Nearly every developer for macOS, whether they're publish on the app store or on their own, follows the interface guidelines Apple sets out. So all apps are predictable and look consistent.
Plebs that don't understand the value of aesthetics in all avenues of life are NGMI.
because there's no universal Linux design
and what about windows
it's unironically better
When did "modern design" become a competition of who can make their margins the biggest and waste the most space? Designers should all be fired because they all they do is follow moronic zoomer trends instead of actually making usable software.
When we realized humans can only keep about 7 entities of anything in their head at any given time and it's more useful to let them browse those 7 things with big fonts and comfy margins than clutter the screen with things they won't be able to process.
I'm not moronic, I don't need an interface for toddlers. I'd rather have as much information as possible.
>open up your email client for the thousandth time
>hoo boy, I'm ready to process the 10 entities like it's my first time seeing them, hold back my calls, Sharon
how come no UX c**t says anything about laggy and inconsistent GUIs?
Completelly fricking wrong as I can remember 12 months of the year, 26 letters of the alphabet, and alll sorts of shit that come in more than 7, without having to make an extra effort to dig into my memory.
They're not all in your memory at the same time. It's like a linked list. Try reciting the alphabet backwards or the months skipping every other one.
looking at a list of messages is not the same as keeping something in your head
Based. Finally someone who knows what they are talking about.
This is a myth with very little scientific basis these days, pretty much rejected in academia now. The outcome of designing for this was making people objective more stupid, with smaller memories.
looks a lot like microshit teams, if it's similar to teams in any other way than just looks, avoid at all cost
Looks pretty good tbh
I like it.
Good. I like it.
You will NEVER get me motherfrickers.
for me it's claws mail
Can it store mail locally
yes
can claws sign in with gmail accounts
Based. I tried going the minimautist route with neomutt, but it filtered me. For some things, I just want my shit to work without tweaking configs and studying keybinds.
Yes, if you generate an app password on your Google account's settings.
they made thunderbird an el*ctron app?
what do you mean
thunderbird already was using the firefox engine before the redesign
it literally always was a XUL application, built on a browser engine
there has never been a time when it wasn't
never said it wasn't
i said electron, not firefox
i figured you meant electron-like, as in it's a glorified web application, which it is, but no, it's not literally electron
how come they cloned the typical electron appearance? what's their fricking problem? why do they keep fricking everything up? no one asks for this shit
because it's trendy i guess
The reason I use Thunderbird is because it doesn't look like this.
Are there any decent email clients left (for windows) or do I just have to disable updates?
same, i used to use thunderbird because it was how outlook /used/ to look like
now i use claws because it's how thunderbird used to look like
call me old but i have my preferences
Why does every gay have a circle profile picture of their IRL face?
because pepe is frowned upon at workplace
Finally, it's literal eye cancer in its current form so I can't wait to finally have a usable mail client on my loonix system.
you only have a smartphone
here's your (you)
>here's your (you)
Thanks homosexual. But I really do like it. Unironically.
I don't even own a smartphone, i am not a moronic Black person homosexual like (you)
only a phonemong (you) wants every program to resemble some fricking mobile fast food app
I like it.
Doesn't condensing things into non-standardised ultra-minimalist icons with no accompanying text break every set of human-machine interaction guidelines ever written?
you WILL accept pointless titlebars
you WILL accept stacked toolbars
you WILL accept everything being labeled
you WILL LOVE text dumps
you WILL LOVE tiny margins
you WILL get married to computer interface design
can't wait for smug zoomers to be pining for those halcyon days of electron apps
Kek they straight up just copied Zoho mail
>thx u Sers....
>wsmwk Thunderbird Employee 14 hours ago
>I would advise against using CSS, which ultimately will at some point stop working in the future.
lmao
Looks like fricking shit.
troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT troony SHIT
Anons, can you recommend me a mail program that has good design like the old Thunderbird with none of this huge margin zoomer shit? Thanks.
Current thunderbird.
going by
's pic, it seems like claws mail is visually similar.
Kmail
hoho haha
hmm, let's test that
>that garish and space wasting sidebar thing
i hate vscope trannies so much it's unreal
If you don't like it you are a boomer who resists change, probably a closeted troony too.
As long as it is not electronshit, I don't mind
on one hand it actually looks like an email client now
on the other hand my boomer dad will absolutely hate it
>it actually looks like an email client now
what else looks like this?
outlook
whatever comes with windows 10/11
and that's it because there are literally no other standalone email clients in existence in 2022
that's a lie
>it actually looks like an email client now
What did it looks like before, if not like an email client?
i do not see any problems, by default 102 looks just like 91 except few shit, but not as big that would not make me use that
>they turned it into a windows mail clone
why are freetards like this
Well-meaning idiots think it will ease Wingays' transition from Microsoft products.
I already was using it to get away from the awful windows mail app
what the frick were they thinking
looks great!
I like how you all moronic turds are looking for something to complain about.
Didn't have to look hard.
everyone i know who uses thunderbird uses it specifically because it did not look like this
literally who asked for this
I DID
I ASKED FOR IT
I MADE THEM LISTEN
NOW IF YOU EXCUSE ME I'M GOING BACK TO OUTLOOK
you literally don't know anyone
WHY ISN'T IT IN THE ARCH REPOS YET
Finally Thundercuck got with Metro :^)
Unfortunately it is far too late for it to stand a ghost of a chance against thicc daddy Outlook
Looks like a generic Electron app
time to finally switch to mutt or something i guess
you don't have preferences
Sure I do. For instance, I prefer women, unlike you.
straight men don't use webshit
Soulless.
Are you gays really going to sperg out over this? If you want some classic UI or whatever I'm sure you can use whatever skin/UI customization setup that will make it feel like the old hasn't been updated for a decade thunderbird you remember. Thats the point of it being FOSS and about customization. However the default aesthetic being "similar to what everyone else uses" is understandable to a degree especially given how Thunderbird has been overtaken by so many others.
The bigger issue is that its finally getting a functionality update. I want to see it able to work with modern, e2e encrypted mail sites like Proton where even the subject and other stuff can be encrypted, besides it acting like POP/IMAP from 1999 alone. Thunderbird finally getting new features (like labels that are compatible with major webmail filtering. When average fricking user has Gmail split into Priority, Updates, Promotions, Social or whatever mailboxes and Thunderbird isn't compatible they just frick off and use webmail) is the important thing and I hope they do it right. Being able to customize the UI is pretty much a given, so you can set up your own brand of autism if you desire
see:
they plan to remove UI customization via userchrome.css
Are they just talking about the old way? Like remember when everyone was talking about how Firefox would no longer be able to customize shit and it was all sky-is-falling after an update, or how there would be no addons or about:config or whatever the frick? It didn't turn out like that.
If they want to tell people that the exact css files or whatever they used a decade ago won't work anymore that's a big difference from "you won't be able to do anything anymore, this is the only UI for you enjoy". Don't get me wrong if the latter is really the case that's hugely shitty and people will obviously object, but lets confirm what's actually going on.
>oh No NonoONNOONO NONNONOOOOO NOT MY CUSTOM CSS!!! HOW WILL I PUT RAINBOW POLKA DOTS OVER EVERYTHING IF I CANT USE CUSTOM CSS???!?!??
raped
Thunderbird is literally based on Firefox. either this one reddit post from a Thunderbird employee is a confirmation Mozilla will remove userChrome.css support from Firefox, or Thunderbird will specifically disable the toolkit.legacyUserProfileCustomizations.stylesheets pref just to piss you off.
or, he might just be telling us the specific css snippet the redditor suggested might stop working some point in the future
>thunderbird accepts google's bullshit like a b***h
>week later
>google revamps whole thing, rendering everything incompatible again
Better than sour grapes "why can't they just use the CLI, it doesn't need a GUI" or "The only game we need on Linux is fricking Tux Racer" tantrums. People will just frick off and leave unless you have Apple level cultists who will accept "you're holding it wrong" bullshit.
There's no reason you can't support the old things while also updating it so that it provides support for things people want and use outside of a bunch of graybeards or autists from the 90s. FOSS should be leading the way but to do that projects need to evolve in cases like this. People don't use mail the same way they did in the 90s with only the features available at the time. Thunderbird isn't like mutt or pine or whatever the frick where it is designed just for that, during it prominence it had similar features and in many cases better ones than proprietary competitors, was more capable of being extended and modded, and overall better for many use cases.
Default UIs or whatever doesn't mean they're all the same under the hood. If the other ones are not FOSS, or can't be modded or whatever that's a bigger difference. Lots of browsers have standardized around a Chrome/ium like UI because of its popularity, but Firefox is still meaningfully different in many ways on the surface and as far as core features are concerned.
>similar to what everyone else uses
What's the point of multiple email clients existing when they're all the same?
>Sept 9
>Aug 31
>Aug 30
frick you
this is just as moronic as gmail
Yet another zoomer UX-ified application to add to my IgnorePkg's...
Looks good
Looks pretty cool, can't wait.
Just wait how they gonna massacre K9-Mail that is now part of them.
K9 already got massacred by a shitty redesign a while a go
When are the android and ios versions coming?
>even desktop apps are now webapps
god I love being a webdev, I'll probably be making $500k/yr in 2030 for just tweaking some CSS
And 50% of it will go to rent.
>250k leftover for hookers and blow
deal
Mail clients are webapps though
Thank god SeaMonkey doesn't look like that and never will.
When did IQfy become infested with underage morons who follow newest webshit design trends? This is clearly a step backwards, it'll now be able to show less than half the emails in the list it used to.
>it'll now be able to show less
What the frick are you talking about stupid boomer LARPing moron
I was clearly talking about the e-mail list, not the content, you absolute moron.
email list is clearly visible.
Your screenshot shows 7 e-mails. The Claws screenshot shows 10.
Yes, the Subject and From fields are tiny, you have to scroll horizontally to see every column, the e-mail itself is the size of a post-it note, and a vertical view would reduce the subject line to one single word. But at least it's not made by trannies. Disgusting, smelly trannies. And it shows more e-mails.
>Yes, the Subject and From fields are tiny,
Enter the mental gymnastics
> But at least it's not made by trannies. Disgusting, smelly trannies.
m-muh troony waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
> And it shows more e-mails.
Shows 10 lines of nothing. As opposed to 7 emails that has a highlight of the content. Keep coping stupid Black person.
>Shows 10 lines of nothing.
It shows 10 lines of useful information. Thunderturd's zoomer UI doesn't even show you the year in the date field.
>bb-b-b-buy m-muh YEAR field!1!!
LMAO
You will never be a real time traveler.
>the Subject and From fields are tiny, you have to scroll horizontally to see every column, the e-mail itself is the size of a post-it note, and a vertical view would reduce the subject line to one single word.
because the whole window is 800x600 unlike the OP pic which is 2000x1200 you utter fricking moron
lil nibba doesn't know you cant change the layout for tall columns, too high on the fisher price UI design trend
keked at freetard design
what?
>he doesn't know how to use the three envelopes
are you reading 40 emails at once?
Very nice. I'm sure autists will complain it doesn't look like something made in the 90s anymore
this UI might work good when you are using one e-mail account, but will definitely suck at handling multiple accounts. Too bad the only reason I use thunderbird over webclients is the ability to handle multiple account at the same time.
Are there any plans to make search not complete shit? That's really my only complaint with Thunderbird.
Cool, wasted space and buttons for features I have never fricking used and never will. What else is good?
Kmail is shit
Evolution is slow and broken
Geary forces troony paranoia policy on its users
Oh right.
OUTLOOK.
Sorry lintards.
>OUTLOOK
looks about the same as the new thunderbird. Keep your microsoft fanboyism at bay.
Looks pretty good to me.
Now I just need to find a decent free email service that actually works with it.
here is my claws setup on x230 with tiny screen
based
smaller resolution and huge fricking buttons and it still shows more emails and content than
Nice, does claws have a dotconfig? if so can you share yours?
t. intrigued x230 owner
not him but that just looks stock to me
the vertical layout is one of the built in options under view
Neat, thanks for letting me know! I'll have to check out claws mail sometime since Thunderbird won't be very good on small screens anymore.
looks sexy af, nice
lemme guess, it runs on electron.
looks like a clone of outlook web. sad.
No moron it runs on Firefox.
so, it's just a web app? same difference.
Of course it is, it's a fricking mail client, moron.
classic thunderbird wasn't a web app, you fricking zoomer.
It's a mail client that renders emails that it gets from the web. It's a web app by definition.
it renders text mostly
Okay? lol
You think the texts are randomly generated from your local machine?
>zoomer thinks email clients and everything that renders text HAS to have a web UI
fricking KEK, the absolute state of this board
It does. HTML email is a thing and it's pretty common.
thunderbird has always been a XUL application, meaning it has always been functionally the same as electron, this is not a new thing
you're just now recognising it as a "web app" because it looks like other modern web apps
XUL isn't html, though.
but the protocols for sending and receiving email have nothing to do with HTML, and you don't
actually need to read HTML emails.
>XUL isn't html, though.
no, it's not /exactly/ the same as electron in the sense that the application code could run on another browser engine, since XUL is specific to one engine, but it is does run entirely on a browser engine, similar to electron apps
put another way, you can't remove or disable the browser part of thunderbird, because the whole UI uses it, it's a browser skinned up as a mail client, it actually used to be part of a browser + mail client combination called mozilla internet suite, before splitting off into thunderbird and firefox
>browser + mail client combination called mozilla internet suite
Things were better back then. Why can't we go back?
seamonkey exists which is a maintained version of mozilla internet suite
Based moron making up scenarios and then getting mad about them
Damn that's really good
I use neomutt
🙂
What's the point of making an email client for illiterates?
What's the point of making an email client for illiterates?
That's a good question.
Looks FRESH and CLEAN
Looks not as efficient and dense than the old Thunderbird. I like Tunderbird for the information density and quick useful buttons.
Looks about the same
102 yes, but the 114 design preview not.
I misread and thought you were talking about missing information, but you were talking about density.
Looks basic. Better than the joke that is gmail but still 10 yeard behind Outlook.
how so?
What the frick.
I'm going back to mutt.
lmao it looks exactly like outlook
Outlook looks better actually. There needs to be less color and more defined upper menus.
I hate all the shitty big button, no menu bar, client side drawing web page in a window frame thick clients. Electron or not.
Please tell me this isn't an electron program
Thunderbird is becoming Outlook Web
Guess I'll finally ditch Mozilla now
Don't care, still using neomutt
I just log into my yahoo account and read emails there
Looks pretty good guys
how is it bad it doesn't look like a frickin list of forum posts like the rest of FOSShit email apps
Why?
If I wanted my mail client to look like that, I'd use Google or Office.
Much like "If I wanted my browser to look like that, I'd use Chrome."
Frick Mozilla. Seriously. I hope people will come around to maintain a fork with the final acceptable UI.
>I hope people will come around to maintain a fork with the final acceptable UI
Just use older version. It's an email client how many updates do you actually need.
Security updates at the very least.
>TFW you are using corporate email that only works with only one proprietary client
fine, cool. I don't care as long as they don't remove any features I use.
They will remove every single one of those and, to make up for it, will give you Pocket-integration in return.
>use interlink
>don't have this problem
Only issue is that you need to trust Fatt A. Tobin to not torpedo the project in the near future, otherwise it's just an old Thunderbird fork.
That looks really good, might give it a try later.
ITT: we take Discord's layout and add one more column for actual content
electron and its consequences have been a disaster for native look & feel
Where is electron?
Frick native look & feel, just stop fricking with GUI layouts. We figured out how a window should look in 1989.
Nineteen eighty fricking nine.
Windows 95 / 98 improved it a little bit, and Windows XP looked like it was for toddlers but had the pieces in the right place. GNOME 2 and KDE 3 were okay in most regards.
Everything after was shit.
it's weird. windows 95 had a ton of research put into its interface design, as well as building on extensive research by xerox parc and so on. it was extensively tested by many users and was a well considered design that focused on usability.
where is the focus now? there is great emphasis on "design" (i.e., make every software application look like a generic SaaS webapp), but no emphasis on usability concerns such as visual cues and consistency. also, it seems like most testing done today is of abusive metrics like "user engagement", which just means "how addictive is our app?" watching and helping ordinary people use software has grown increasingly painful in the electron era, and it's because every program is inconsistent in some way (often, even with itself) and there aren't enough visual cues and labels to clarify what some part of the UI actually does. do companies just not give a frick if people can use their software anymore?
>where is the focus now? there is great emphasis on "design" (i.e., make every software application look like a generic SaaS webapp), but no emphasis on usability
"Design" make great promotional material for the cattle, its bright, its flashy, its the "new" thing. Its what sells the product
Usability does not sells, because it comes after the sale.
For those same reasons its all about webshit interfaces without any consistency now. so that they are "unique" to each program to "emphasize brand recognition".
Also forcibly reinventing the wheel every few months to be "fresh and modern" comes at the cost of not just discarding past decisions but also getting rid of the few good ones that spawn from time to time.