Thoughts on Restorationist Christianity (Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Iglesia ni Cristo, Christadelphians, Christian Science, Swedenborgians, etc.)?
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Esoteric Christianity. Dare I say, the true Christianity
Mormonism is what happens when you combine Methodism with Free Masonry.
>Mormons
The truth, but they've lost some of their soul and need it back. They have great cultural potential in the future.
>Jehovah's Witnesses
Too authoritarian and millenialist. Too opposed to education and expression for them to ever be culturally relevant.
>Iglesia ni Cristo
Will be interesting to see how they develop in the future but for now they're very local to the Philippines.
>Christadelphians
Seem chill, but very tiny.
>Christian Science
More interesting as a relic of the days when Mesmerism was a bigger deal. Also a relic in that it firmly denies the existence of matter and endorses idealism, very interesting. They're likely going to fade into greater obscurity as time passes, as they already have.
>Swedenborgians
Historically interesting because of their founder, but the movement itself is pretty tiny.
Heretics.
shut the frick up groypers. your pope would consider you a heretic as well
Jehovah's Witnesses outright deny that Jesus is the son of God, that makes them ipso facto non-Christian
Wrong, Jehovah's Witnesses fully accept Jesus as the Son of God. They just don't this this makes his God nor do they worship him.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't have that.
>Jesus isn't God
ipso facto not Christian
No they're just Nontrinitarianites which is based.
They're annoying as frick though I'm glad that JW poster is gone.
They're annoying because their cult makes them proselytize as a religious obligation, and it's just about the time they spend not the effect of their efforts.
Well they're also just moronic.
i haven't seen that poster before but if hes on IQfy his days in the religion are numbered
JWs avoid problematic "worldly" because they believe they are actual nexuses of satanic power
source: former JW
this looks like some hyperborean easter shit
For some reason they seem to go off the deep end hard and fast rather than focus on trying to emulate the actions/practices of the early church. Dunno why.
Because they have nothing in common with the early church
Yeah, but 'Restorationist' implies that they're making an attempt. So it seems weird that they go off in very, very strange directions rather than put some serious effort into understanding the historical practices and workings of the earliest
Christians.
Usually restorationist = false prophet claiming to have a hotline to God
So they're just claiming that for legitimacy? That's not very Restorationist of them, then. Lame.
I would be genuinely interested in some big project to try and reconstruct out the way the earliest Christians lived and worshiped. Sounds like a job for historians, archaeologists, and theologians rather than would-be prophets with magnetic personalities, though.
>I would be genuinely interested in some big project to try and reconstruct out the way the earliest Christians lived and worshiped
It already happened Anon, it was called the Reformation.
Pretty much every major Protestant branch that sprung up at the time was just some variant of Catholicism shorn of the labyrinthine doctrines and traditions it had accrued over the centuries with the occasional funky theological twist to make them distinct from each other - like the Calvinists and predestination. Except for the Anglicans, they're literally just Catholics with a monarch instead of the pope. They're silly.
The only ones I take seriously in an attempt to emulate early Christians would maybe be the Anabaptists, but even they get weird about it with some things.
> Mormons
Polytheists
> JWs
Arians
> Iglesia Ni Cristo
Who?
> Cirstadelphians
Who?
> Crhsitian Science
Arians
heretical bullshit from known conmen that explicitly denies basic Christian doctrine, in other words Islam for WASPs
>Iglesia ni Cristo
Meme tier Christianity
>Iglesia ni Cristo
Actual cult
>Mormonism
Like a weird materialistic Arianism, that's the only way it can be described. God is an alien, Jesus is his literal Son, we're all his spirit children actually from his wife(s), every planet has its own deity, it's weird.
>Jehovah's Witnesses
A combination of Arianism with Adoptionism. Jesus of Nazareth is a normal man with a miraculous birth, becomes Michael the Archangel/Son of God/Messiah/ at his baptism, is not worshiped but is believed to be the Logos and creator of the cosmos.
>Iglesia ni Cristo
From my understanding they're basically just Unitarians.
>Christadelphianism
Also Unitarian.
>Christian Science
They are solipsists who deny the existence of the material world and believe that the mind is all that really exists, they are also Modalists like Oneness Pentecostals and teach the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all a single person.
>Swedenborgianism
Actually quite similar with the above, they have a very occulty/magical view of the world and also hold to Modalism.
The only restorationists that can be called christian are sda and churches of christ
Restorationist label no longer applies to them as it has taken on different connotations now. They're just Protestants. The rest listed here are non-Protestants.
I disagree, they still believe theyve restored true Christianity, not reformed
But Restorationist specifically means non-Trinitarians now.
No it doesn't
You're such a fricking idiot. I hope you know that and I hope you know that nobody on here likes you. Please leave. 🙂
I have to drive by this thing everyday. The traffic always builds up on there on 495 around the bend passing the church. Visited it once as a kid when they opened it to the public in the late 90s.
I'm a Jehovah's Witness
AMA
How do you rationalize preference for a Bible version created by anonymous undereducated editors who make clearly externally motivated decisions that go against the entire field of new testament Greek translation?
>undereducated
If they are anonymous how do you know they are undereducated ?
>who make clearly externally motivated decisions that go against the entire field of new testament Greek translation?
Do you have an example ?
>Space+question mark
>Only answers questions with questions
Are you the one who makes the drawings and got banned from here?
I got unbanned
🙂
Terrible news
Here's my question then and I ask you not to respond with a question
Did everything that came into existence come into existence through Jesus?
Rephrased: is Jesus prior to everything that began to exist?
Yes, that's what 1 corinthians 8:6 says
Holy shit you're worse than Dirk and he's annoying as shit. Frick off JW gay.
What did I do ?
You shit up the board with your nonsense bullshit.
What nonsense ?
Stop gaslighting. Your bullshit JW nonsense moronation.
How is it nonsense ?
Because it's fricking moronic and a lie, your church is filled with pedophiles and you shitty dishonest organization had predicted the end of the world on multiple occasions and failed hard and literally changes it beliefs and hides it.
>Because it's fricking moronic and a lie
Why ?
>your church is filled with pedophiles
That's not true. We're the religion with the least cases of child abuse, and when we know of such a crime being commited they are kicked out and turned over to the police unlike other religions who simply relocate them to another church
>and you shitty dishonest organization had predicted the end of the world on multiple occasions and failed hard
Ancient worshippers of God also had mistaken ideas and expectations and needed to adjust their viewpoint:
Moses offered himself as a deliverer for the nation of Israel 40 years ahead of God’s timetable.—Acts 7:23-25, 30, 35.
The apostles failed to understand the prophecy that foretold the Messiah’s death and resurrection.—Isaiah 53:8-12; Matthew 16:21-23.
Some early Christians had wrong ideas about the timing of “the day of Jehovah.”—2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2.
God later corrected their misunderstandings, and we pray that he will continue doing the same for us 🙂
>and literally changes it beliefs
Such changes are in harmony with the Bible principle stated at Proverbs 4:18:
“The path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.”
Just as the rising sun reveals details of a landscape gradually, God grants an understanding of divine truth progressively, in his due time ! (1 Peter 1:10-12)
>and hides it.
?
We do not try to hide these changes in our understanding of the Bible. In fact, we record and publish them:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174
>That's not true. We're the religion with the least cases of child abuse, and when we know of such a crime being commited they are kicked out and turned over to the police unlike other religions who simply relocate them to another church
lmao
if your not a larp then you better get out of here before your DF'd and don't make it through muh armageddon
>DF'd
lmfao
Then you ascribe eternity to Jesus and therefore divinity with the father, since you admit Jesus did not begin to exist according to the Bible.
I see what you mean. Then I will rephrase my answer
I believe God created Jesus (Revelation 3:14) and God used Jesus to create all other things (Colossians 1:15, 16)
That's not rephrasing that's a change. You've reversed your answer.
Did all things come into existence through Jesus? If yes, Jesus did not come into existence and JW is refuted.
>Did all things come into existence through Jesus?
All things except himself, since God created him directly. That is why he is called the only-begotten son of God
Do you understand better ?
John 1 NWT says "all things", no exceptions. Are you saying the Bible is wrong?
All verses must be taken into context, and so we understand that Jesus did not come into existence by himself since it would be impossible, so logically it's all things except himself.
> Jesus did not come into existence by himself since it would be impossible
>somehow god just always existed
lmao
Well God is from "everlasting to everlasting" (Psalms 41:13)
While Jesus had a beginning (John 1:1)
>You're calling the Bible wrong
I disagree. I don't think it's right to focus on one verse and make a conclusion by ignoring the others, so I believe that the Bible teaches that God created Jesus and everything else came into existence through Jesus.
I'm asking you to affirm or deny a sentence exactly as it appears in the bible, even in your preferred translation.
>All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
Did any one thing come into existence apart from Jesus? Yes or no
>I'm asking you to affirm or deny a sentence exactly as it appears in the bible, even in your preferred translation
I already did though:
Jesus didn't come into existence by himself, since that's illogical
That is why the Bible says that God made him directly, and subsequently used Jesus to indirectly create all other things !
Answer yes or no
Yes all things that came to existence came through him except himself
Don't bother, JW's are mentally conditioned to internally shut down any outside opinion that contradicts their own. They aren't interested in debate, or engaging with other denominations for any reason other than to convert
Conversions are also extremely rare, most of the religion's population is generational from a previous period in history when they were less of an orwellian cult, but now that most of the religion's batshit history and abusive practices are easily accessible people aren't buying it
I give this one the benefit of the doubt because he's willing to post here, and his continued posting actively drives readers away from his cult especially when he's obstinate.
You're calling the Bible wrong
>All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence
Did any one thing come into existence apart from Jesus? Answer yes or no.
>I give this one the benefit of the doubt because he's willing to post here
Fair, the wife he wasn't allowed to be alone with until the night of the wedding is probably getting plowed by Tyrone and his kids are getting raped
by the one handsy elder in his hall so its good to cut him some slack
Good old La Jolla. Love driving by this thing.