This. It's poetry translated from another language. It's a bit difficult to read and there's no shame in that.
Try a different translation and read summaries.
Absolutely do not do this, only real morons do this.
https://i.imgur.com/wQrAUFf.png
>try to read the Illiad >too stupid to even understand what's going on
Just keep practicing, focus, reread if you have to. The more time you spend developing your reading ability the sooner you will fly through even challenging books without even noticing how easy it is. It all comes down to effort bro.
I honestly don't see how that's possible. The story is extremely simple and revolves around universal human themes
2 months ago
Anonymous
Oh yes? What do you thini each brother represents then? Because there is one chapter where a fiscal literally explains what each represents in case the reader didnt understood it and its very russian cultured.
Alyosha: The russian ideal
Ivan: The russian europeism
Dimitri: What russians actually are
2 months ago
Anonymous
Alyosha is the Christian ideal, saintlike but still flawed, because all humans are. Still marked by the Karamazov blood curse, which is a reference to Adamic sin, modulated for their particular circumstances.
Ivan is the folly of reason and pride, though he is halfway redeemed by the end. Dmitri is the folly of passion, and also halfway redeemed.
I don't know what you mean about judging them as Russian/Euro types. Ivan is obviously influenced by European philosophers but this is downstream of his idolization of reason.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Book 12, Chapter VI. The Prosecutor's Speech. Sketches Of Character
He gives a discourse about Fyodor, Dmitri, Alyosha, and Ivan, but he also says a phrase that summarises it, I added the parenthesis: >“But to return to the eldest son (This would be Dimitri),” Ippolit Kirillovitch went on. “He is the prisoner before us. We have his life and his actions, too, before us; the fatal day has come and all has been brought to the surface. While his brothers seem to stand for ‘Europeanism’ (Talking about Ivan) and ‘the principles of the people,’ (Talking about Alyosha) he seems to represent Russia as she is.
Also, I guess orthodoxy is also a topic in the novel, which is definitely not universal. In The Grand Inquisitor, Ivan is criticizing the catholic church, not christianism, which can be missinterpreted if you didn't knew what orthodoxy is.
Always read introductions, look up summaries beforehand, don't be afraid to google shit, don't be afraid to look words up in the dictionary.
The Iliad was written (spoken, transmitted, eventually transcribed) for an audience who were almost implicitly familiar with all the characters being described. You have none of that background and shouldn't be ashamed of supplementing your reading.
moronic metaphor: Imagine watching Avengers: End Game having seen none of the preceding movies and expecting to understand what's going on. You'd know SOMETHING'S going on, and you'd get a vague idea of the overall conflict, but you'd be missing out on a shit-ton of the material the original audience would have almost taken for granted.
Also, don't be ashamed if you don't "enjoy" it through your first read. You're developing the muscle that will eventually be used to enjoy these works, but that muscle needs to be developed first, and until it is it'll be uncomfortable.
No, don’t do this unless you are a time traveler from 1880 and it is your only option. Butler is also the moron who came up with the Homer was a woman idea.
As soon as you don't understand, go back to the last part you understood and reread from there. Your reading comprehension will get better over time anon. Just don't give up.
First, start with Robert gayles. His edition is annotated heavily (almost every other line) and he has a straightforward, colloquial writing style.
Then move up to Richmond Lattimore. He is considered the greatest Homer translator by many. He uses archaic language and the syntax of Ancient Greek to deliver an offering which is quite unusual from normal poems and unique in its style.
You don't simply read things like Iliad or Odyssey. You study them, preferably with knowledge of ionic Greek and a solid base of tons of supplementary literature. But in your case even some guidebook or companion will be enough.
Which translation? Nothing wrong with reading a plot summary of the chapter on Wikipedia first then reading it in proper verse form.
This. It's poetry translated from another language. It's a bit difficult to read and there's no shame in that.
Try a different translation and read summaries.
just ask ChatGPT when you're confused
Absolutely do not do this, only real morons do this.
Just keep practicing, focus, reread if you have to. The more time you spend developing your reading ability the sooner you will fly through even challenging books without even noticing how easy it is. It all comes down to effort bro.
the brothers karamazov filtered me. felt like I needed to be educated in russian culture of the time.
I honestly don't see how that's possible. The story is extremely simple and revolves around universal human themes
Oh yes? What do you thini each brother represents then? Because there is one chapter where a fiscal literally explains what each represents in case the reader didnt understood it and its very russian cultured.
Alyosha: The russian ideal
Ivan: The russian europeism
Dimitri: What russians actually are
Alyosha is the Christian ideal, saintlike but still flawed, because all humans are. Still marked by the Karamazov blood curse, which is a reference to Adamic sin, modulated for their particular circumstances.
Ivan is the folly of reason and pride, though he is halfway redeemed by the end. Dmitri is the folly of passion, and also halfway redeemed.
I don't know what you mean about judging them as Russian/Euro types. Ivan is obviously influenced by European philosophers but this is downstream of his idolization of reason.
Book 12, Chapter VI. The Prosecutor's Speech. Sketches Of Character
He gives a discourse about Fyodor, Dmitri, Alyosha, and Ivan, but he also says a phrase that summarises it, I added the parenthesis:
>“But to return to the eldest son (This would be Dimitri),” Ippolit Kirillovitch went on. “He is the prisoner before us. We have his life and his actions, too, before us; the fatal day has come and all has been brought to the surface. While his brothers seem to stand for ‘Europeanism’ (Talking about Ivan) and ‘the principles of the people,’ (Talking about Alyosha) he seems to represent Russia as she is.
Also, I guess orthodoxy is also a topic in the novel, which is definitely not universal. In The Grand Inquisitor, Ivan is criticizing the catholic church, not christianism, which can be missinterpreted if you didn't knew what orthodoxy is.
I'm very dumb
Always read introductions, look up summaries beforehand, don't be afraid to google shit, don't be afraid to look words up in the dictionary.
The Iliad was written (spoken, transmitted, eventually transcribed) for an audience who were almost implicitly familiar with all the characters being described. You have none of that background and shouldn't be ashamed of supplementing your reading.
moronic metaphor: Imagine watching Avengers: End Game having seen none of the preceding movies and expecting to understand what's going on. You'd know SOMETHING'S going on, and you'd get a vague idea of the overall conflict, but you'd be missing out on a shit-ton of the material the original audience would have almost taken for granted.
Also, don't be ashamed if you don't "enjoy" it through your first read. You're developing the muscle that will eventually be used to enjoy these works, but that muscle needs to be developed first, and until it is it'll be uncomfortable.
Good luck; the journey's worth it.
Great comment anon (not OP)
I went in blind. Reading commentary means that you will predispose yourself to being propagandized by someone else's interpretation.
Get the Butler translation
cosign
No, don’t do this unless you are a time traveler from 1880 and it is your only option. Butler is also the moron who came up with the Homer was a woman idea.
You're supposed to learn Ancient Greek BEFORE reading it anon
a bunch of morons are killing each other for the amusement of the gods, pretty simple plot, they don't even describe the tax policy of the trojans
I've seen more anglo homies struggle with it than homies who straight up learned ancient Greek, it's very straightforward
As soon as you don't understand, go back to the last part you understood and reread from there. Your reading comprehension will get better over time anon. Just don't give up.
My translation suggestions
First, start with Robert gayles. His edition is annotated heavily (almost every other line) and he has a straightforward, colloquial writing style.
Then move up to Richmond Lattimore. He is considered the greatest Homer translator by many. He uses archaic language and the syntax of Ancient Greek to deliver an offering which is quite unusual from normal poems and unique in its style.
The E.V. Reid translations of Homer's work are easily the most accessible. And they're good at that, despite what contrarian IQfyizens claim
You don't simply read things like Iliad or Odyssey. You study them, preferably with knowledge of ionic Greek and a solid base of tons of supplementary literature. But in your case even some guidebook or companion will be enough.
Me too, I've read twice it already and all I got was heroes killing multiple people and dying tragically