I prefer writing that is done well, regardless of what the style is, because I'm not a pseud who draws some arbitrary line to determine what's good. You can have flowery prose that is perfectly readable and enjoyable to the lowest common denominator, and conversely you can have clear and concise writing that will completely go over their heads. The average person could read a Hemmingway story and completely miss half of what was said, despite the writing being incredibly concise.
That is about as far from an unpopular opinion as you could get. Britain's last author of note was Orwell and even he was just ok.
Anyway, Russian literature is overhyped trash that's only popular these days because of American counterculture in the 60s.
>That is about as far from an unpopular opinion as you could get. Britain's last author of note was Orwell and even he was just ok.
Here's another of mine: British literature peaked with Shakespeare, and it's been downhill ever since. But wait, there's more:
>Russian literature is overhyped trash that's only popular these days because of American counterculture in the 60s (I agree wholeheartedly). >Pushkin is the only good Russian author because he actually tried to entertain rather than spew WE WUZ TZARZ cope all the time. >Emile Zola is criminally underrated, and was basically Dickens done right. >Nabokov was an overrated one hit wonder, and e-girlta is one of the most overrated books of all time. A total bore because Nabokov won't get out of his own story's way. >Alice Sebold singlehandedly killed American literature with "The Lovely Bones."
I love French literature but it is generally one or two note. USA is way more diverse. A lot of the great books from france center around the Revolutions and their impact
I don't think French literature is that simplistic. I mean, Zola, Flaubert, Balzac, et al all wrote about more than just the revolution. I enjoy American literature, though - hell, I'd say Moby Dick is one of my top five favorite books, maybe even in the top two.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They definitely wrote about more than the revolutions, but they are always looming large in the background. Flaubert and Balzac were very critical of the bourgeoisie class that exploded after Napoleon. As an aside, many readers seem to focus on Emma Bovary, but I think Flaubert made his views clear with the character of Homais.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well, it was the biggest event in their history. I can't necessarily hold it against them. For me, I just prefer French the most because it's what's connected to me the most as a reader. Zola is my favorite author, too. I try to read books of all kinds, though. Have a little free library in my neighbourhood which helps.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah I realize the importance of the revolutions can’t be understated to their culture, I just tire of it sometimes. Germinal is one of my favorites. It’s a shame you can’t make a thread on it here anymore for obvious reasons. Never has poor coal mining felt so cozy and bleak at the same time. I’m a sucker for mining. Love when DH Lawrence writes about the life, too
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Germinal is one of my favorites.
It's actually my favorite novel of all time. It's what got me into Zola's work, and has influenced my own writing. I'm a sucker for stories like it. I really have to think over my list sometime, but on the spot, I'd say Germinal would be one, with Moby Dick at two. After that's a crapshoot - I've read and enjoyed so many books.
>DH Lawrence
I remember seeing his books in the YA section at a book sale. I was tempted to ask what motivated whoever put 'em there.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You ever read Ken Kesey’s Sometimes A Great Notion? It gives a similar feel and tone except with logging in the Pacific NW of Usa with some light stream of consciousness mixed in. Love that just as much as Germinal. The only other Zola I’ve read is The Masterpiece. It was okay to good IMO. Worthwhile, but nothing like Germinal. I have the impression that Zola is a very steady writer as he uses the same rough outline but in different segments of society. The YA DH Lawrence guy probably thought he was being funny. It’s a shame that most know Lawrence for his obscenity trials. He is such a great writer, and few have been as unfairly treated as him.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don't believe I have, I can't remember - I'll keep an eye out for it, though. As for Zola, the last I've read was Nana, after L'Assommoir, but these days, I've been reading nonfiction. Gotta change it up a bit, y'know? As for Lawrence, I've most recently read Mornings in Mexico (found it in an LFL) but took it back and got Conrad's Nostromo. Just took that one back the other day, but didn't take another book. The LFL has been pretty dry recently.
2 years ago
Anonymous
All I see in little libraries in my neighborhood are highlights magazines and the ilk. I put an expensive edition of The Recognitions in one once and it stayed there till I took it back
2 years ago
Anonymous
>All I see in little libraries in my neighborhood are highlights magazines and the ilk.
All I ever see is chick-lit and dudebro authors trying to be the next Tom Clancy. Used to find so much good stuff too. I wonder if the same crowd that swamp thrift stores to find shit to sell does the same with little libraries. Wouldn't be surprised.
300 million people in the richest country in human history. You'd expect USA to be the peak
By comparison, Elizabethan England had a population of 4 million, half living in 3rd world poverty, and half of the rest illiterate. Obviously contemporary America is better
luv me chippy
luv me milton
luv me yorky pud
luv me shakespeare
luv me mushy peas
luv me dickens
luv me full monty
luv me tolkein
luv me sunday roast
luv me blake
luv me mince pie
luv me doyle
luv me mash
luv me chaucer
luv me rarebit
simple as
>Another unpopular opinion is that Canadian literature is the absolute worst.
How is that opinion unpopular? It's just objective fact. I'm Canadian myself and I'm not even sure I could name five internationally known canadian authors.
Either I haven't read enough to give a shit about "prose" or I just don't understand what it is and no such thing has thrown me out of a book I was enjoying.
I always laugh when someone says that good prose is what they look for most in a book. It’s like, really? You look for good writing in a book? Who would have thought. Hemingway was a master of prose and so was Proust, yet they are very different. A great writer has a distinctive style and tone, and works to his strengths
>All I see in little libraries in my neighborhood are highlights magazines and the ilk.
All I ever see is chick-lit and dudebro authors trying to be the next Tom Clancy. Used to find so much good stuff too. I wonder if the same crowd that swamp thrift stores to find shit to sell does the same with little libraries. Wouldn't be surprised.
That's a tough one, and I could end up writing a huge-ass post nobody's gonna read, so I'll just say that aside from Zola, favorite writers include Melville and Peake. Outside favorites, I tend to like individual books by authors rather than their entire bibliographies - for example, I dug Cat's Cradle, but I can't say I got into any other Vonnegut novel. I read 'The Basic Eight' by Daniel Handler (his first book before the Lemony Snicket stuff) and it was pretty cool - actually had him sign my copy when he stopped by my neck of the woods; I think he was surprised I wanted him to sign it compared to anything LS related. Didn't have a problem with it, though. Nice dude. Surprised he was being 'cancelled' not that long ago, didn't know he was still around.
Yeah it’s like responding when you are asked who you think the hottest girl is. So many contenders, and too dependent on my current mood and mindset. I have probably 30-40 writers I would say they are among my favorites if they were brought up. Thankfully literature isn’t plentiful and diverse. Every book I love opens the door to 3 or 4 more writers or books to add to my To Be Read list. It is never ending and that is a blessing, though it can be overwhelming at times. You will never run out of great books to read. Even some books I dropped at first became beloved when I circled back years later with fresh eyes and a new prospective
2 years ago
Anonymous
I will generally read/watch/listen/etc whatever I find interesting, even if it's in a genre I normally don't care for. But outside of Duddy Kravitz, I don't really hate anything else. Sure, I don't like a lot of stuff, but full blown hate? Nah, not really. The only other book (and consequently movie) that comes close to DK is The Lovely Bones. Probably the biggest waste of potential I've ever seen in a book, and I lost all respect for Peter Jackson when he was engaging in proto-woke (for lack of a better term) shit with critics over his sanitization of the story when he did the movie version, which I did see at the theatre (nothing else to do, Brian Eno did the soundtrack). Thank goodness for gift cards.
Not really an unpopular opinion but Canadian literature isn't generally worth reading. Most of it is virtue signaling, minorities complaining about how hard they have it or just derivative of American stuff that came out 5-10 years before.
>just derivative of American stuff that came out 5-10 years before.
That's Canadian anything, really. TV, music, literature, it's all deriative. As for the first two, I think it's just a Hail Mary to get SOMEBODY to give a shit, as everyone just goes stateside for media regardless. More Canadians would rather read about American minorities complaining than their own.
You've hit the nail on the head, I think. That old truism about what gets popular in Canada is something that trended in the US five years ago appears pretty true to me.
Canadians give zero fricks about anything to do with their country, unless you count their pseudo-patriotic whining about how the NHL is "rigged" against Canada. They consoom American product across the board. The CFL, a literal institution, is on death's door and only the crotchiest of boomers care about it - even other boomers prefer the NFL, XFL, whatever. Canada could be annexed overnight and other than the flags and coinage, nobody would notice a difference. They'd just think they walked into Minnesota or something.
i prefer writing that caters to the lowest common denominator. concise and clear writing is superior to flowery prose
This guy is going places
T. Hemmingway
t. Hemmingway
t. Orwell
t. Steinbeck
t. Kafka
I prefer writing that is done well, regardless of what the style is, because I'm not a pseud who draws some arbitrary line to determine what's good. You can have flowery prose that is perfectly readable and enjoyable to the lowest common denominator, and conversely you can have clear and concise writing that will completely go over their heads. The average person could read a Hemmingway story and completely miss half of what was said, despite the writing being incredibly concise.
That is about as far from an unpopular opinion as you could get. Britain's last author of note was Orwell and even he was just ok.
Anyway, Russian literature is overhyped trash that's only popular these days because of American counterculture in the 60s.
>That is about as far from an unpopular opinion as you could get. Britain's last author of note was Orwell and even he was just ok.
Here's another of mine: British literature peaked with Shakespeare, and it's been downhill ever since. But wait, there's more:
>Russian literature is overhyped trash that's only popular these days because of American counterculture in the 60s (I agree wholeheartedly).
>Pushkin is the only good Russian author because he actually tried to entertain rather than spew WE WUZ TZARZ cope all the time.
>Emile Zola is criminally underrated, and was basically Dickens done right.
>Nabokov was an overrated one hit wonder, and e-girlta is one of the most overrated books of all time. A total bore because Nabokov won't get out of his own story's way.
>Alice Sebold singlehandedly killed American literature with "The Lovely Bones."
21st century America already has more great writers than 19th century Russia
Agreed. Most people have actually read the American writers too.
USA has the best literature. It is even more impressive considering their age
>USA has the best literature.
I would say France myself, with USA at second.
I love French literature but it is generally one or two note. USA is way more diverse. A lot of the great books from france center around the Revolutions and their impact
I don't think French literature is that simplistic. I mean, Zola, Flaubert, Balzac, et al all wrote about more than just the revolution. I enjoy American literature, though - hell, I'd say Moby Dick is one of my top five favorite books, maybe even in the top two.
They definitely wrote about more than the revolutions, but they are always looming large in the background. Flaubert and Balzac were very critical of the bourgeoisie class that exploded after Napoleon. As an aside, many readers seem to focus on Emma Bovary, but I think Flaubert made his views clear with the character of Homais.
Well, it was the biggest event in their history. I can't necessarily hold it against them. For me, I just prefer French the most because it's what's connected to me the most as a reader. Zola is my favorite author, too. I try to read books of all kinds, though. Have a little free library in my neighbourhood which helps.
Yeah I realize the importance of the revolutions can’t be understated to their culture, I just tire of it sometimes. Germinal is one of my favorites. It’s a shame you can’t make a thread on it here anymore for obvious reasons. Never has poor coal mining felt so cozy and bleak at the same time. I’m a sucker for mining. Love when DH Lawrence writes about the life, too
>Germinal is one of my favorites.
It's actually my favorite novel of all time. It's what got me into Zola's work, and has influenced my own writing. I'm a sucker for stories like it. I really have to think over my list sometime, but on the spot, I'd say Germinal would be one, with Moby Dick at two. After that's a crapshoot - I've read and enjoyed so many books.
>DH Lawrence
I remember seeing his books in the YA section at a book sale. I was tempted to ask what motivated whoever put 'em there.
You ever read Ken Kesey’s Sometimes A Great Notion? It gives a similar feel and tone except with logging in the Pacific NW of Usa with some light stream of consciousness mixed in. Love that just as much as Germinal. The only other Zola I’ve read is The Masterpiece. It was okay to good IMO. Worthwhile, but nothing like Germinal. I have the impression that Zola is a very steady writer as he uses the same rough outline but in different segments of society. The YA DH Lawrence guy probably thought he was being funny. It’s a shame that most know Lawrence for his obscenity trials. He is such a great writer, and few have been as unfairly treated as him.
I don't believe I have, I can't remember - I'll keep an eye out for it, though. As for Zola, the last I've read was Nana, after L'Assommoir, but these days, I've been reading nonfiction. Gotta change it up a bit, y'know? As for Lawrence, I've most recently read Mornings in Mexico (found it in an LFL) but took it back and got Conrad's Nostromo. Just took that one back the other day, but didn't take another book. The LFL has been pretty dry recently.
All I see in little libraries in my neighborhood are highlights magazines and the ilk. I put an expensive edition of The Recognitions in one once and it stayed there till I took it back
>All I see in little libraries in my neighborhood are highlights magazines and the ilk.
All I ever see is chick-lit and dudebro authors trying to be the next Tom Clancy. Used to find so much good stuff too. I wonder if the same crowd that swamp thrift stores to find shit to sell does the same with little libraries. Wouldn't be surprised.
300 million people in the richest country in human history. You'd expect USA to be the peak
By comparison, Elizabethan England had a population of 4 million, half living in 3rd world poverty, and half of the rest illiterate. Obviously contemporary America is better
luv me chippy
luv me milton
luv me yorky pud
luv me shakespeare
luv me mushy peas
luv me dickens
luv me full monty
luv me tolkein
luv me sunday roast
luv me blake
luv me mince pie
luv me doyle
luv me mash
luv me chaucer
luv me rarebit
simple as
Contemporary American authors are obsessed with novelty, in terms of aesthetics there's only a handful of American authors producing noteworthy prose.
>Contemporary American authors are obsessed with novelty
Agreed.
>only a handful of American authors producing noteworthy prose
Name them.
OP here. Another unpopular opinion is that Canadian literature is the absolute worst. Voltaire was right.
Agreed. It's so fricking bad.
>Another unpopular opinion is that Canadian literature is the absolute worst.
How is that opinion unpopular? It's just objective fact. I'm Canadian myself and I'm not even sure I could name five internationally known canadian authors.
this not so much an "unpopular opinions" thread as it is a "IQfy outs themselves as the stupidest board yet again" thread
I don't know, man, I just wanted some discussion. Why don't you join in? What makes you think what you've posted?
Either I haven't read enough to give a shit about "prose" or I just don't understand what it is and no such thing has thrown me out of a book I was enjoying.
I hear ya. I'm not picky when it comes to prose unless it's what I find obnoxious (basically Infinite Jest/Gravity's Rainbow type shit).
I always laugh when someone says that good prose is what they look for most in a book. It’s like, really? You look for good writing in a book? Who would have thought. Hemingway was a master of prose and so was Proust, yet they are very different. A great writer has a distinctive style and tone, and works to his strengths
What are some of your favorite books or writers?
>What are some of your favorite books or writers?
That's a tough one, and I could end up writing a huge-ass post nobody's gonna read, so I'll just say that aside from Zola, favorite writers include Melville and Peake. Outside favorites, I tend to like individual books by authors rather than their entire bibliographies - for example, I dug Cat's Cradle, but I can't say I got into any other Vonnegut novel. I read 'The Basic Eight' by Daniel Handler (his first book before the Lemony Snicket stuff) and it was pretty cool - actually had him sign my copy when he stopped by my neck of the woods; I think he was surprised I wanted him to sign it compared to anything LS related. Didn't have a problem with it, though. Nice dude. Surprised he was being 'cancelled' not that long ago, didn't know he was still around.
Yeah it’s like responding when you are asked who you think the hottest girl is. So many contenders, and too dependent on my current mood and mindset. I have probably 30-40 writers I would say they are among my favorites if they were brought up. Thankfully literature isn’t plentiful and diverse. Every book I love opens the door to 3 or 4 more writers or books to add to my To Be Read list. It is never ending and that is a blessing, though it can be overwhelming at times. You will never run out of great books to read. Even some books I dropped at first became beloved when I circled back years later with fresh eyes and a new prospective
I will generally read/watch/listen/etc whatever I find interesting, even if it's in a genre I normally don't care for. But outside of Duddy Kravitz, I don't really hate anything else. Sure, I don't like a lot of stuff, but full blown hate? Nah, not really. The only other book (and consequently movie) that comes close to DK is The Lovely Bones. Probably the biggest waste of potential I've ever seen in a book, and I lost all respect for Peter Jackson when he was engaging in proto-woke (for lack of a better term) shit with critics over his sanitization of the story when he did the movie version, which I did see at the theatre (nothing else to do, Brian Eno did the soundtrack). Thank goodness for gift cards.
Not really an unpopular opinion but Canadian literature isn't generally worth reading. Most of it is virtue signaling, minorities complaining about how hard they have it or just derivative of American stuff that came out 5-10 years before.
>just derivative of American stuff that came out 5-10 years before.
That's Canadian anything, really. TV, music, literature, it's all deriative. As for the first two, I think it's just a Hail Mary to get SOMEBODY to give a shit, as everyone just goes stateside for media regardless. More Canadians would rather read about American minorities complaining than their own.
You've hit the nail on the head, I think. That old truism about what gets popular in Canada is something that trended in the US five years ago appears pretty true to me.
Canadians give zero fricks about anything to do with their country, unless you count their pseudo-patriotic whining about how the NHL is "rigged" against Canada. They consoom American product across the board. The CFL, a literal institution, is on death's door and only the crotchiest of boomers care about it - even other boomers prefer the NFL, XFL, whatever. Canada could be annexed overnight and other than the flags and coinage, nobody would notice a difference. They'd just think they walked into Minnesota or something.
The pessimists, aside from Spengler and Schopenhauer, are overrated
Esotericism is cringe.