What books or writers of revelance (if any lmao) have the Dutch produced, IQfy?
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 Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
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What books or writers of revelance (if any lmao) have the Dutch produced?
What books or writers of revelance (if any lmao) have the Dutch produced, IQfy?
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Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
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Erasmus is great.
The troony one
>inb4 Spinoza
He wasn't Dutch. He didn't write in Dutch.
>William Beckford wasn't really British, he wrote Vathek in French!
>Beckford
English surname
>Spinoza
Non-Dutch surname
Oh crap his dad was Portugese and moved to the Netherlands before Baruch was born in the Netherlands, that must mean he's not actually really Dutch!!1! Fricking dumbass
Fish born in a stable is not a horse
Human born in the Netherlands is Dutch
nee, kanker op, kankerturk, kankermarrokaan, kanker
jemig
TJEEMPIE!- van Kampurt is best gurappug if joe spiek de dutsj lengwuch. Verry geil tho, but not as krols als andere koemerboeken. Ei just lof how he plays with Nederlands
Why are you being pedantic? You know what is meant. No one here cares about whether they have a sticker stamp of approval from the government. A Dutch person in the sense we speak is part of the Dutch "extended family" i.e. genetic cluster.
Now go back
Guys, this whole 'The Netherlands is a nation' meme is getting a bit tiresome.
Honestly dude, the crime you're committing here is not shitting on the Netherlands, every country is shat on in different contexts, and all of them have jokes associated with them; the crime you're committing here is being trite, unimaginative and unfunny. You haven't the first acquaintance with the country besides what other stale, unfunny human printers have posted in threads similar to this one in the past. In fact, I have seen these exact posts almost verbatim before, in threads that were nothing but a permutation of this one. Just the same grey, stale, recycled non-jokes and non-prods made by people who think they're engaging in an organic site-culture that is actually dead as a doorpost. At least larger countries benefit from others having some actual knowledge about them that would make the jokes funnier on account of being deeper than an A4 sheet of paper.
That's such a shallow puddle of an identity. If a person were to be born and raised in the Netherlands, with Dutch adoptive parents, who had never known any other culture but that of the Dutch, but was born to and abandoned by, two Poles that happened to be in the country at the time, they would not be considered Dutch? And a person born in America and raised by two American adoptive parents, who has never heard of his heritage, but was born to and abandoned by, two Dutch parents, they would be considered Dutch? So hollow an identity hardly deserves a nation constructed around it. It holds as much meaning as that "sticker stamp of approval from the government."
Ah yes, the true deep ocean of identity is the economic zone with with transient imagined borders, not family or kinship. kek.
No Japanese person considers pic rel Japanese, nor does he consider himself Japanese, despite him being raises in Japan. Indeed he is not Japanese; he a racial foreigner -- an Anglo -- raised in Japan. You will never belong to whatever Western country you're shitting up right now. In any case, just imagine the OP said "ethnic Dutch" and we can both move on.
>Ah yes, the true deep ocean of identity is the economic zone with with transient imagined borders
Yes. Relationships built out of cooperation mutual benefit far outweigh those of coincidence.
>not family or kinship. kek.
And here is where the point went over your head entirely. The examples I gave you were ones in which the subjects were entirely removed from their families, and thus had no connection to them and their identities. Do you really think that if you dropped that American off in the Netherlands, he'd find more kinship within his "rightful people" than the place he'd known all his life? If you do, I have a windmill to sell you.
>No Japanese person considers pic rel Japanese, nor does he consider himself Japanese
At what point do you think my argument relied on self-identification for its validity, something even your standards eschew entirely? As for the other point, it's a shame Japanese society is so insular--I wonder if their decades of stagnation have any correlation with that?
> it's a shame Japanese society is so insular--I wonder if their decades of stagnation have any correlation with that?
PFFFFFFFFHAAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHAAHHAHAAHAHA
And you think a montage of modern civil unrest proves absolutely anything? Are you really so ignorant of the very times you appeal to that you don't know they had their own such instances? Surely that's not the case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_68
Also,
>zero rebuttle
Forgot pic
You expect me to explain to you why a feral child that was raised with wolves and behaves like a wolf is not a wolf.
You're playing games here. Why don't you acknowledge that "Dutch people" exist in a genetic sense in the same way North American Gray Wolves do, and that simultaneously there exists citizenship (i.e. sticker) and that "Dutch" can be used to refer to both, but in this context means ethnic. Is that so difficult? Does the concept of "Dutch people" or "Germanic peoples" or "European peoples" existing offend you?
>Does the concept of "Dutch people" or "Germanic peoples" or "European peoples" existing offend you?
Obviously it does offend his ilk. It's unfortunate but most of these non-Whites are really easy to understand through simple game theory. They are aware that Whites having ingroup preference is disadvantageous for them at a fundamental level, it is empowering for White people as a whole. This immediate, instinctual self-interest is inherent to these base 3rd worlder types, Whites/Westerners don't understand it at all and are easily tricked.
I mean seriously, no hard feelings, but why would we make a bunch of foreign dumbshit 3rd world peasants citizens? What benefit does it have for White/Western ethnicities or nations as collectives? Or, on an individual level, ask oneself the same question. Really, there is no need for a massive importation of 3rd world peasants, apart from keeping the parasitical financial system afloat. It's just making our superior countries shit-tier, and these 3rd world homosexuals are just here for money.
Also if you think that a gang of canniballistic simians from Haiti can or will integrate into a quiet European village, you are probably a delusional old lady who watches MSNBC all day in a care home, or some other form of an utterly clueless mindslave.
>You expect me to explain to you why a feral child that was raised with wolves and behaves like a wolf is not a wolf.
These situations aren't comparable, since wolves and humans are different species. Obviously a human can never be a wolf, but they can damn well integrate into a culture they do not descend from.
>Why don't you acknowledge that "Dutch people" exist in a genetic sense
I never said I didn't? I'm sorry if it same across that way to you, but I said nothing close to "the Dutch don't exist as a distinct genetic group." That was never the point. What I am saying is that attaching an identity to that genetic group, such that those not belonging to it are ostracized from Dutch society or relegated as some "other" is a completely irrational standard.
>These situations aren't comparable, since wolves and humans are different species. Obviously a human can never be a wolf, but they can damn well integrate into a culture they do not descend from.
Okay now change it to Grizzlies and Polar bears, after all they can procreate and create fertile offspring, and it does happen in the wild, so they're the same species by that hard definition. Principle is the exact same dumbass.
I don't care about what you think about what constitutes a rational or ideal in-group criteria. This is not a civic nationalism vs ethnonationalism debate.
Polar bears and grizzlies don't have societies. You're acting as if I'm arguing that a person can change their genetic makeup, but I never said that. How about actually reading what I write before replying.
And yes we are debating exactly that, as
Is clearly asserting that ethnonationalism is the deeper in-group, replying to my original post of civic nationalism having that title.
The whole point is that he is not racially Japanese and that's what being discussed. It is not arguable that he was raised in Japan. That out the way? Okay good, so ethnic Dutch people exist and that's what the OP was about.
>such that those not belonging to it are ostracized from Dutch society or relegated as some "other" is a completely irrational standard.
Where did anybody say that? The Dutch have a right to preserve their heritage, which is intertwined with genetics, lineage, etc. If you're scared by Dutch people having a sense of their identity, you're a pathetic little weakling.
No, Dutch cultural heritage is not intertwined with genetics, at least not in the sense that someone of non-Dutch heritage can't be Dutch. That was my original point in
. That the hypothetical Polish descendant is just as Dutch as those around him in the Netherlands. I never argued against the Dutch having an identity, just that if it was solely determined by genetics (which it isn't in real life, but I was speaking for the sake of the hypothetical) that it was shallow.
Inb4 you realize most borders are completely arbitrary you nincompoop
It's not just most, it's all. And I wasn't referring to the location of borders when I said "hardly deserves a nation constructed around it;" I was referring to the very existence of said nation.
Hmmmmm....I guess it must be pretty mind-blowing to you that people (especially of similar origins, like Europeans) can integrate culturally without actually being of the exact same ethnicity. But that doesn't disprove any identity, you simpleton. In reality, it actually affirms "identity", or HEREDITY. You are not refuting anything, you are bringing up random extremes which have no bearing on reality. It is extremely simple-minded, like when these leftist children try to deconstruct other things (as well as White ethnicities, obviously).
You're coping that Whites have their own national identities and can be exclusivist, like an angry little anti-White gremlin. White people have a right to their own homeland and a right to self-determination as well. Cope.
You're arguing against no one. My exact point was that people of varying ethnicity can integrate into nonnative societies, but that any identity who *only* considers those of its dominant genetic makeup as members is shallow. I don't know how you could have such awful reading comprehension.
>but that any identity who *only* considers those of its dominant genetic makeup as members is shallow.
Who cares? why am i supposed to give a shit about some dumbshit paki? why should i be motivated to accept some moronic foreign peasant in to my cultural/ancestral lineage? i care about my own people first. i would care about other Europeans over some random immigrant with 4 different citizenships/passports to farm benefits off of like a subhuman. That's just how it is. There is no impetus for me or for others to accept outsiders. In fact, we see the error we have made, i think. Too bad the governments don't listen to the will of the people because they are controlled by finance.
>Am I supposed to care
Fantastic counterargument
The OP just says "the Dutch." It says nothing about genetics or race. And what about
>Ah yes, the true deep ocean of identity is the economic zone with with transient imagined borders, not family or kinship. kek.
You're not seriously trying to convince me that that isn't a value judgement referencing identities formed around non-ethnic lines
I got baited into a civic vs ethnonationalism debate, sure. I'm back on course now. Spinoza is not Dutch in the sense the OP was implicitly about. Just like Orwell is not Indian or Claude Cohen-Tannoudji is not Algerian.
>Spinoza is not Dutch in the sense the OP was implicitly about.
But that's the problem, you're projecting onto the OP that he was asking about the ethnically Dutch, but there's nothing in the post to imply that. Unless you mean that Spinoza was not Dutch in a cultural sense
Get with the sitegeist. That's obviously what he meant and if you're so unsure ask him.
Is that the sitegeist? Or is it you projecting what you personally consider important onto others?
I admire your patience, I got tired only from skimming the conversation. Reducing it to ethnicity is moronic. To these people Rudold Borchardt and Kantorowicz weren't German writers either.
Anyways, I was considering reading Nooteboom soon-ish.
>Borchardt, Kantorowicz
Impressive, anon; very nice
Are you being sarcastic? Most posts are insincere, so it's hard to know.
>Either/Or
Anon... that one is Danish
Ah, but was he genetically Danish or did he merely live in Denmark?
No sarcasm there. Many of those German intellectuals around the George-Kreis are very interesting.
>Many of those German intellectuals around the George-Kreis are very interesting.
I think so too, although Borchardt's work is a bit hard to access. What happened to the israelites always saddens me and I feel nothing but repulsion towards many posters here. It becomes even more frustrating – if that's even impossible – when you see how much they loved Germany, going as far as Borchardt retroactively trying to create German renaissance literature through compiling and editing poetry and even translating Dante into his artificial Dante-Deutsch.
Beethoven was dutch then, great!
And Vondel German
>his family, who were Mennonites, originally came from Antwerp
Sorry bro
>magical government papers change your genetic lineage
Top kek
>Isaac Newton isn’t English. He wrote in Latin
Isaac Newton was actually English, Spinoza was not. This is before the age that Americans turned the concept of ethnicity into something to do with living on a piece of land and owning a paper slip.
>This is before the age that Americans turned the concept of ethnicity into something to do with living on a piece of land and owning a paper slip
The concept of ethnic assimilation is not something that was just invented in 18th century North America, it was just especially prominent there due to the mixed origins of the settlers. But American identity is more "ethnic" and Europe identity is sometimes less strictly biological than you're implying.
Isaac Newton wrote Opticks as well as his theological works in English. He was also a member of the Church of England, if not entirely a pious one, and his belonged to a culture that was doubtless English. Spinoza on the other hand didn't leave behind a single note written in Dutch, spent his childhood and youth immersed in the israeli culture from which he was expelled but even following his expulsion didn't seem to have much traffic with the Dutch
Marcellus Emants, Cees Nooteboom, Harry Mulisch, and Hella S. Haasse are the most popular Dutch writers outside of the country. Aside from those, there aren't much more, as the Netherlands isn't a real nation, but a mere business venture; and Calvinism pretty much destroyed every creative disposition in the Dutch.
>Calvinism pretty much destroyed every creative disposition in the Dutch.
TradLARPing Catholic or atheist? Either way, someone who couldn't name a single Reformed scholastic.
>someone who couldn't name a single Reformed scholastic.
Johannes Althusius, Franciscus Junius, and Johannes Maccovius.
>TradLARPing Catholic or atheist?
Before Jehova Witnesses and Mormons came to be, Calvinist were Christianity's black sheep, and were criticized pretty much by everybody: Catholics, Luthereans, Anglicans, Orthodoxs, etc.
>Johannes Althusius, Franciscus Junius, and Johannes Maccovius.
Ah shit, looks like I've been beaten. You take this victory for now, friend.
>Before Jehova Witnesses and Mormons came to be, Calvinist were Christianity's black sheep, and were criticized pretty much by everybody: Catholics, Luthereans, Anglicans, Orthodoxs, etc.
As if the Lutherans and Anglicans weren't mutually firing potshots at each other! Everyone was criticizing everyone else back then.
The Calvinism of the founding Anglo-Americans and Dutch-American colonists and the secularized Anglicanism of the Founding Fathers were the foundation of the United States of America. America is founded on the rejection of the Catholic Church, the rejection of atheism, the rejection of ochlocracy, aristocracy, science, and thrift, all of which originated from the Reformed confessions.
Jefferson's rejection of classical metaphysics for a strictly secular, scientific system depends on the war the Reformed waged against the Catholic Church.
Anyone who lives in America should thank their local Dutch Reformed church.
>The Calvinism of the founding Anglo-Americans and Dutch-American colonists and the secularized Anglicanism of the Founding Fathers were the foundation of the United States of America. America is founded on the rejection of the Catholic Church, the rejection of atheism, the rejection of ochlocracy, aristocracy, science, and thrift, all of which originated from the Reformed confessions.
>Jefferson's rejection of classical metaphysics for a strictly secular, scientific system depends on the war the Reformed waged against the Catholic Church.
>Anyone who lives in America should thank their local Dutch Reformed church.
Literary all of this (which I already knew, mind you) is, partially, what makes America such a cesspool and epicenter of evil and degeneracy. I spit on the grave of its Calvinist founding fathers and wipe my ass with both the constitution and Franklin's autobiography. That den of freemasons ruined the world with their demonically inspired ideas and, hopefully, are rotting in hell right now, just some levels above the second founding fathers of America (i.e. the Frankfurt school). Calvinism, Zionism, and Marxism: the three heads of the American state.
So be it. Which nations do you consider real? The French? The Italians? The Indians?
My dick
America wasn’t strictly founded on Calvinism, mind you, but also Arianism and Methodism, which rejected Calvinism’s moratorium on free will. Since both were considered valid in the early American church, freedom of religion came from its wellspring. Also you shouldn’t attempt to shift blame on problems that might as well begin with you. If you’re so much better at statecraft you’re free to make your own.
>America wasn’t strictly founded on Calvinism, mind you, but also Arianism and Methodism
Any good books on this?
>rather than Christian theology
An attack on the Reformed is an attack on the Dutch people!
>An attack on the Reformed is an attack on the Dutch people!
I wipe my ass with pages of 'Institutes of the Christian Religion' by heretic and current resident of hell John Calvin.
>An attack on the Reformed is an attack on the Dutch people!
In very select, rural regions of the country, yes.
>what makes America such a cesspool and epicenter of evil and degeneracy.
Cry more. Cromwell is in heaven laughing at Charles burning in hell.
Neglect this, Mulisch en Haasse are shits
Reve, Herman, Bordewijk, Thijsen, Minco and Van der Heijden are great
The Dutch used to be based when they were executing homosexuals.
For beglian writers: Elsschot, Boons and Claus are great
Luck of the draw ig. Genetically practically identical to their German and English cousins, so there's no reason to suspect a lack of ability.
>If any lmao
Why are you gays always like this. You're obviously not interested in discussing literature, just shitposting. Grow up homosexual.
>inb4 seething dutchie
im not dutch
They're moronic brown teenagers ruining the site. They watch Andrew Tate and think they're le epin 9000+ redpill chad, when really they are the stupidest, most pathetic morons in existence.
Seriously, I've known multiple 3rd worlders and they all behave like this. Absolute cringe overcompensation. The only encounter they've had with the opposite sex is making out with a drunk immigrant mom or something, yet they talk all day about how much they go to the gym and talk to women (lol). Then they go to the bar and have 4 beers and act like children and puke and get laughed at.
Potgieter, Perk, Kloos, Verwey, Gorter, Van Deyssel, Van Eeden, Huizinga, Jolles, Roland Holst, Couperus, Nescio, Nijhoff, Du Perron, Ter Braak, Marsman, Bordewijk, Reve
I'd just like to point out that this anon posted something to do with books, rather than Christian theology or the epistemology of nationalism
This whole thread is honestly just to shit on dutch culture. Its a sterile but socially accepted form of hatred so milktoast gays like OP and others itt flock to this thread like flies to shit to be gay and suck eachother off. Effortposting in these threads is done in vain.
Taking into consideration how, alledgedly, The Netherlands is the most 'LGBTQ+ nation* of Europe', I invite all the Dutches to suck my dick.
*The Netherlands isn't a nation, but a glorified business venture
>*The Netherlands isn't a nation, but a glorified business venture
I will not suffer a literal American to say this.
I'm French.Y'know? An actual country.
Nescio is great, dunno how well he translates.
America's sense of early modern heroism is based on LARPing conspiracy theorists.
For the Dutch it's the invention of the joint stock company.
Its millennial aka sterile gay humor and the gayest of the gayest attempts to be edgy and upset people. Consider kys for indulging in it.
The Spanish should've killed you all, fricking heretics.
I am Spanish funnily enough. Cope however you want, snarky wienersucking "discrimination but against le european country" is gayshit and annoying if you actually want to discuss topics. This thread could be interesting but you nignogs have nothing else going on in your life so here we are. Learn how to can into honest behaviour.
No, Manolo, no eres español. España ya no existe. Murió con Franco. Su último remanente fue nuestra industria automotriz, la cual dimos en sacrificio a la Puta de Babilonia (aka. la Unión Europea) para recibir la marca de la Bestia.
España está muerta, igual que Europa.
I knew youd resort to this type of cope nafri rapemeat (assuming you're the french homosexual). kys for this milque toast millennial attempt at "humor". You're getting too old for this. Learn how to can into honesty while you're at it.
>Learn how to can into honesty while you're at it.
What did he mean by this?
Anyways, chúpame la polla como si fuera un porro.
>He cant into canning into posting
Hello newbie, unimpressive spanish btw. May your mother be hounded by a pack of heckin BIPOCs.
¿Así como los marroquíes se cogieron a tu madre y te metieron en su coño en forma de semen, Andaluz de mierda?
Imagine them making her cry and fricking her hard so she gets traumatized and becomes a mental plant. Adios homo
Is that a Berserk reference?
I think it's more just brown/mixed incels who are butthurt over Whites dominating and mogging their people or something. All the Dutch (usually SA) I've known in America have been top-quality people, both in terms of intelligence and physical stature/looks (tall, strong, blond, etc.), as well as being extremely kind and hardworking. I don't see why anybody would have a problem with them unless they are just butthurt/resentful 3rd world teenagers, or some sort of anti-White psyop.
This guy probably thinks he’s a god in het diepst van zijn gedachten
(decent list, bit heavy on the tachtigers. I’d also barely classify Ter Braak as a writer)
+1 for Nescio, Bordewijk and Reve
I’d add Elsschot (he’s an honorary Dutchman as far as I’m concerned) and Hermans (depending on the book, some real shitters in there) too.
I like the authors from the post-war movement. Jan Wolkers is the best of the bunch. Should only be read in Dutch though. Or maybe German, probably not though.
After the post-war generation though? Laughable. The people reading have become mediocre and so have the authors. Sinking ship that tries not to drown.
I have never read a post-war Dutch author I liked, they're all homosexual boomers living up the novelty experience of having-been-at-war and finally being able to do le sex or whatever
I'm gonna check out some of the recs given in this thread maybe I'm missing out on even better stuff then...
Y'know? The Netherlands used to be a nicer country when they were burning gays instead of joints.
Dairy of Anne Frank
William of Orange is burning in hell sucking the devil's donkey wiener for being a filthy heretic and creating one of the epicenters of modern decandency in the world. The Dutch were some of the first 'progressives', with policies of religious tolerance and widespread individuality---any intelligent person should know that these two are some of the great poisions of modern society. Also, the Ducth delivered Indonesia to Islam, making it one of the most muslim nations in the world.
This, in addition to their positive attitude towards LGBTQ+ stuff and euthanasia, makes us see that the Netherlands has acted as nothing but cancer for this world, and should be properly eliminated.
Just reincorporate it into the Fourth Reich. Dutch might as well be a low-German dialect anyway.
The Dutch people are not only proud, but also smug about their achivements to destroy western society. The most extreme, blatant, and demonic manifestations of liberal degeneracy are common place among the Dutch. Any inclinatiom towards Western Traditional values is dead in The Netherlands. They've delivered their souls to the devil, wallowing in sin, justified by their own conceitedness. But God will punish them by drowning their country. Of course, the Dutch will try to escape their fate---they believe that their fate is on their hands, and not on God's---our duty is to not allow them to do so. During the next great flood, kill anything that speaks [Dutch].
legit schizo
ok christcuck
The Netherlands is a cancer, a mistake, an abomination, a sacrilege against the one and true God, driven by the demonically inspired heresies of John Calvin (who' s in hell right now, getting sodomized for all eternity by a various set of demons). The history of the Netherlands is nothing but a series of blatant transgressions against the natural order, fueled by conceitedness and lust for power. Every Dutch does nothing but participate in this demonic frolic of sacrileges by upholding their liberal and secular anti-values as "progressive". The average Dutch is a pot-smoker atheist who's either gay, bi, or trans, who defends the EU and the """right""" of people to either kill themselves of be killed by physicians---they're all the devil's servants, even if they don't believe in him. The devil will lose, and all the Dutches will accompany in hell for all eternity.
I curse the days in which William the Orange, Erasmus, Spinoza, Anne van Gogh-Gorter, and Hugo Grotius were born. Although there isn't a curse in any language that's able to contain all my hatred, my sheer loathe for the Dutch and the evils they have brought to this world.
Preach, brother!
Look at this dog. You resent the Dutch (and all purer Germanics living in better societies) because you're a thoughtless brown mongrel. People of Germanic/European origin standing up for and supporting each other on the basis of shared heritage and values is a threat to people like you, that's why you constantly have to put Whites down and shill your stupid religious views, which aren't even relevant.
I'm sure you'll pretend to be "English" or whatever, but it's obvious you're a hateful 3rd world mongrel. If someone actually wanted to learn about the roots of the spiritual decline of the West and humanity, they'd just read the Traditionalists. Your dumbshit paki opinion on IQfy is just for me to laugh at.
White mericans are as religious as europeans when you take out black people (most of whom are religious) and hispanics (most of whom are religious).
75% of the usa is religous so take out the entirety of blacks (13%) and the entirety of hispanics (20%) and white religiosity is starting to look grim.
>23% is catholic
Makes sense honestly if its mostly latinos.
Whites haven't had religiosity in decades, you dumbshit Hispanic. That's been a prime concern for decades. The more pressing matter is why the frick do you think your opinion is worth sharing? Go listen to Andrew Tate tiktoks, people like you really bring the quality of the board down.
Kankermen have nothing interesting to say.
They are incredibly insular merchants that got lucky for a few decades before fading back into irrelevancy.
They were off under their benevolent Catholic Spanish overlords.
Leonie
Shove my wiener into that prostitute's mouth and face-frick her until she gets traumatized and asks daddy government to euthanasie her. That Dutch b***h is gonna sip my cum as if they were puffs of dope. Then, I'll turn her pussy into a red-light district from the clit to the cervix
Spare us of your vulgarities, disgusting 3rd-world swarthoid.
pic related is pretty good. Never read "childhood" though
100 with how many about literature? 4?
weesa haveem uma biggem problems
Not directly relevant to OP,
but a new translation of Either/Or was released last year. It's supposedly "more literary" than the first, whatever that means.
Spinoza