what if Jesus was just a magician, illusionist, fakir and showed tricks? How can this be refuted?
what if Jesus was just a magician, illusionist, fakir and showed tricks? How can this be refuted?
what if Jesus was just a magician, illusionist, fakir and showed tricks? How can this be refuted?
He never existed
it can't, He rose from the dead, something a magician, illustionist, fakir or any other users of arcane arts are yet to do
meds
>He rose from the dead
What if it was just a trick
Maybe you are a bit late to the party, pal, but it's all a trick once you understand it!
it wasn't
odyssey and gospels are 2 different genres, the former is an epic,the latter is a historical account
>odyssey and gospels are 2 different genres
Yeah nah. Both are scriptures.
>Yeah nah. Both are scriptures.
they aren't
>wasn't
Proofs?
>Proofs?
for what?
not an opinion
>He rose from the dead
Eh, a pretty common occurence back then.
What if the levant was a drug infested schizofest suffering the recent collapse of egypt and subjugation under rome?
Jesus was the son of Juba II, the main historian and anthropologist of the roman southern mediterranean.
He was the heir of the Massylii tribe and got adopted by Caesar when he killed his parents, and later by Augustus that also got him married to the sole heir of Egypt.
Because Cleopatra VII was an ex of Caesar, Juba II technically got arranged-married with his adoptive stepsister.
Which means, Jesus was his own adopted stepcousin.
Oh, and Jesus technically had 3 adoptive dads, 1 adoptive brother-dad (Augustus), 1 imaginary dad and one dad that Forsake™ him.
And, 2 adoptive mothers and 1 sister-mother-bestbuddy. (Luke&Leia say whaaat?)
>own adopted stepcousin
on account of him being reborn from himself, if that flew too high.
>literally visited by three magi as a newborn
Am I supposed to pretend that he wasn't gifted magical powers along with the trinkets he got from them?
>inb4 magi were zoroastrian priests, not magicians
Shut up or I'll give you a wedgie, nerd.
The best example is from the old testament, where God shows his wrath to the Pharaoh by sending a bunch of disasters that all occur naturally anyway.
>The best example is from the old testament
I wrote about jesus
I was told they are the same.
Even within the same bible they're both considered seperate, same with apocrypha, which some bibles don't even include
How do you explain the Pharaoh's sorcerers or Simon Magus performing "miracles" with evil magic?
Can i get video of that?
Didnt they do that in the movie the prince of egypt? Where they show the Pharaoh's sorcerers doing sleight of hand and the bronze age farmers believe it was real magic?
The Christ is God and was crucified to show the world the blood of God, resurrecting the only truth, redeeming, defining, and saving the children of God for their establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven.
But now the children of God have gone into the earth, no longer see themselves, and aren't even looked for anymore because all churches have stabbed out their own eyes for they no longer want to see the Truth which is the risen blood of God.
>the children of God have gone into the earth, no longer see themselves, and aren't even looked for anymore
yes but so much worse because the evil forces of the world have not forgotten the children of God and those same forces are currently driving them deliberately to extinction. Within a century their strength will be so utterly diminished that it will be but a remnant upon the earth amidst a sea of abomination. Perhaps then will be the time of the next coming.
This is my favorite Christian npc action.
>Hey how we know Jesus real and not a trickster?
>Jesus was god and died on the cross for the sins of mankind
>Ok yeah no I'm familiar with the way it's supposed to work that's not what I asked though
They will just state the basic premise when you ask anything
Yeah that's how tricks work dumbass. You don't see how something happens and think it was magic. You are literally describing the exact way a trick works you fricking moron.
Do you have any qualitative proof that the universe didn't come into existence 12 minutes ago with the appearance of age and the illusion of memory?
>Oh you can't prove the world was made 12 minutes ago? Well that means you have to believe in my three in one god who sacrificed himself to himself to save you from himself who got nailed to wood and then came back to life and fricked off to heaven
moron
You successfully argued that there is no way to determine the truth of anything; by corollary, that means there is no reason for or against believing or disbelieving in anything. For that reason, I'm going to believe in the philosophy that exposits the objective reality of truth capable of being ascertained by humanity.
What you really mean is
>I was raised to believe this so I'm just going to say it's objectively true because that makes me feel better.
Christianity offers absolutely no method for determining objective reality what so ever unless you're some "divine revelation" calvinist schizo.
Objective reality is by your own admission unobservable and unverifiable, therefore your whole worldview is pointless. All things are taken on faith.
It would seem more sensible to start from the self and work outwards if we had to make any assumption than start with "This random 2000+ year old collection of israeli books is true" and working down from there.
>Objective reality is by your own admission unobservable and unverifiable
The only one making this claim is you.
>Objective reality is by your own admission unobservable and unverifiable
Which would make the bible merely one possible interpretation amongst a set of infinity. Show me this particular one's power.
>>They will just state the basic premise when you ask anything
>"How would you feel if you hadn't eaten breakfast this morning?"
>local israelite tries to convince me God is a trickster.
Are we really having this debate shlomo? What is ~~*your*~~ evidence? How do you know?
Why do you think he is the God exactly?
>christian defaults to the "everyone who disagrees with me is a israelite" cope
every time, literally in capable of discussing the topic without some dishonest BS
>local ex pharisee named Saul gets crucified sideways or upside down for a trickster magician he never even met.
Just no.
I'd be inclined to believe this would just be a matter of extreme delusion if this only happened once or twice. But happening 30,000 times is a bit too much to be considered mere coincidence. I don't think trannies would maintain the fiction that they're women if you threatened them with becoming one of Nero's torches.
The St. Paul example makes them kvetch the most, because he actually was was one of ~~*them*~~. But yeah, you're right. There are thousands of examples such as Paul's.
>Saul gets crucified sideways or upside down
That was Peter and it never happened
Magic isn't real and Joshua was a random street preacher who got executed for being yet another messianic claimant in an age of messianic claimants. His followers couldn't cope so they turned it into >two more weeks the religion.
Most other messianic claimants' followers were also executed or generally scattered (hence why Jesus' followers feared this would happen to them) Something different had to have happened that didn't happen with, say, Judas of Galilee's followers (Gamaliel points this out in Acts 5:37)
Saul the Pharisee saw the opportunity to use Yeshua's death to retcon Judaism.
Right the guy who was persecuting Christians and having them killed, as a staunch Pharisee (the precursor group of modern Judaism btw), one day, decides to start promoting their claims about their founder's resurrection because why?
The reason why he did it doesn't matter. What matters is that the difference between Christianity and the other messianic cults is that Saul shilled Jesus to gentiles.
He realized he could convince fools to sell everything they owned and give it to him so that he could redistribute it to the needy. -Acts 4:33-35
Literally the same thing Christian churches do today, they preach Jesus to people and then hand over the basket to receive donations, they claim to help the poor with it but for some reason their bank account just starts magically growing..
Maybe that explains why Judas was so upset about the whole chick wiped Jesus' feet with her hair thing...
And why would a staunch opponent of something, absent some supernatural experience, suddenly start promoting the thing, especially if it could get him into serious trouble (people were getting stoned for this, and I'm not talking about hashish) That's the big difference between then and now. See, Joel Osteen, for instance, has very little opportunity cost, the worst that will happen to him is people will point out that he's selling a lie. Back then preaching the resurrection of a messiah claimant that the Judeans convinced the Romans to execute could get you killed and that's what happened to Paul.
People did things with a stupidly high opportunity cost all the time back then. Like you could use this argument to say that the pirates who kidnapped Julius Caesar must've been inspired by god because otherwise their act wouldn't have made sense.
Right but Paul strongly opposed Christianity, kind of a big turnaround for a high cost for not much benefit. Those pirates were already pirates, kidnapping for ransom was just what they did.
You could say the same for any political backstabbing.
Political backstabbing happens for a number of reasons. Ideological, personal and so forth (arguably, speaking of Julius Caesar, Marcus Brutus betraying him was both of those things, for instance). That's the gain usually sought, the possibility of achieving personal revenge or ideological goals, or some combination thereof. Now, anyone committed to such ends will be willing to ignore the dangers. For Paul to abandon his Pharisee faction as he did, he would have to have a reason to do it worth the risks and money doesn't seem like a reason a committed believer would suddenly abandon his cause to pursue a cause he was previously opposed to.
Adoration as cult leader isn't an unheard of motivation. If you want to go more into moronic things going on around Caesar, consider Crassus getting himself killed like a complete moron while chasing clout.
The only things we know of Paul are largely from stuff written by himself or people around him who had a vested interest in Christianity. It's impossible to know what Pauls motivations could have been when we have no real external accounts about him beyond what he and his followers tell us.
why is it that primary documents are all immediately declared false whenever it comes to Christianity, but people still believe Julius Caesar existed without any hesitation or criticism based solely on the writings of people with a vested interest in claiming descent from him?
Because the primary documents about Jesus have a vested interest in getting people to join Christianity, so motivation taints their writing. And people doubt primary documents about Romans all the time, particularly when it comes to their description of Barbarian tribes since they had a vested interest in villifying them. The difference is nobody is using documents about Caesar to convert people into becoming Romans so people feel less strongly about it, but most would acknowledge that documents by sycophants praising him are likely bias.
>The difference is nobody is using documents about Caesar to convert people into becoming Romans
Already addressed literally the comma immediately after. Point is nobody in the modern day is trying to induct people into the Roman imperial cult so people have less investment in the matter.
>nobody in the modern day is trying to induct people into the Roman imperial cult
>he doesn't know
Nobody really knows how Paul died. But it is still a weird thing that the killer of a people suddenly becomes the leader of the people and they accept it. Imagine God condoning a Philistine suddenly becoming the King of Israel during the times of the Judges. And then Paul just writes a bunch of lies that make it to your religion's canon, clearly the guy did not have good intentions.
Only people who don't know him, and haven't encountered him themselves would speculate like this, as if he's a mystery.
There's nothing to be done about that and nothing to refute. They're just dead and will usually remain so. People who've heard the Gospel and decided to move on or make up their own thoughts on Christ are all headed for hell. Rarely do they get another shot, and the more they bury themselves in stupidity like this, the worse it will get for them. It would have been better had they been born completely ignorant and in the middle of nowhere, never hearing.
2,000 more years! Trust the plan!
Imagine being this low IQ and taking fairy tales this seriously, even using the "Hell" scare tactic to try and force people into believing. What a fricking loser.
Jesus didn't exist.
Never compare Christ to evil magicians again
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Stop watching magicians
>what if
what if you werent gay and moronic
The point would be more that he did tricks and didn't use them to try and screw people over.
>what if
I don't have doubt about what Jesus was, because I have Knowledge. You, on the other hand, waste your time with trivial things and don't make the effort to know the truth.