Gravity that includes supersymmetry that is built on an 11-dimensional (10 spatial and one temporal, 10+1) representation that is compactified down to 3+1 dimensional when connecting to measurements
The highest dimension SUGRA can exist in. It is a low energy theory and cannot be quantised without introducing membranes. The interesting thing is that its Lagrangian is very simple, whereas if you compactify it down to D=4 N=4 SUGRA you get a load of extra terms leading to new particles and additional interactions.
these are decent explanations.
a brainlet explanation is that in general supergravity is a quantum field theory where you have normal spin 1/2 and 1 particles (and possibly a spin 0 Higgs sector) plus spin 2 gravitons (gravity), just like naively sticking gravity into QFT as a graviton field. the problem with the naive approach is that (as Feynman explained well) you get really unfixable divergences. but SUGRA goes beyond the naive approach by introducing supersymmetry, which implies the spin 2 graviton gets a spin 3/2 partner called the gravitino, and the gravitino helps a lot to fix the divergences so it’s a much more sensible way to formulate quantum gravity. SUGRA can come in different numbers of space time dimensions and number of supersymmetries, but not arbitrary—it only makes sense with certain combinations of number of dimensions and number of supersymmetries. you can take a higher dimension SUGRA and do compactification on it, and the effective theory that comes out is usually a lower dimensional SUGRA theory with more supersymmetries. the highest dimension SUGRA has 11 dimensions and 1 supersymmetry and compactifications of different kinds give a lot of the other possible SUGRAs so 11D N=1 is known as the “mother of all supergravities”
another point is that 11D N=1 SUGRA is the low-energy limit of M theory corresponding to the limit where the string/brane tension is infinite (i.e. the strings and branes shrink down to particles if they are super hard to stretch)
let me take this opportunity to post an absolute classic by an hero of supergravity and superstrings where he explains this all like a maestro and also goes borderline schizo too (shortly before he killed himself), Joel Scherk
>1% classical physics words found
my post assumes that if you are curious about 11D SUGRA then it’s expected you know prerequisites that go beyond just classical physics, like for example quantum physics and quantum field theory. if you haven’t learned about quantum mechanical spin (something intrinsically quantum with no classical analog) then there is no hope to ask this question expecting a helpful answer, unless you expect a crash course in quantum physics and QFT to get you to the bare minimum
2 years ago
Anonymous
Good pilpul, 5/7. Unfortunately you didn't actually answer anything.
2 years ago
Anonymous
what does pilpul mean? an /x/ term?
anyhow i gave an attempt to explain OP’s question of “what is 11D supergravity”. are you unhappy with it, or is there a specific question you would like answered?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, go ahead and explain what a "compactied dimension" is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
a compactified dimension is something that goes way back in history to the works of Theodor Kaluza and Oskar Klein, when they were studying general relativity. it was also later looked at (but discarded) by Albert Einstein. the idea is that the theory of general relativity admits solutions in dimensions other than 4 (up/down, left/right, in/out, and later/earlier) so they explored what these higher dimensional theories might mean. they had the idea that if there is one extra dimension then it would not contradict experiment if it were curved (in the sense that space curves in GR) so extremely that it curves into a tiny tiny loop so small that no experiment can see it. so that’s what a compactified dimension is: another space time dimension that is very very small, so small that it is imperceptible to humans because moving “along” that direction by even a fraction of a banomeget winds you up back where you started over and over
in fact they showed that a tiny loop-like dimension combined with 4 normal dimensions gives a remarkable prediction: the extra dimension has effects at large distances that look almost just like Maxwell’s electromagnetism
2 years ago
Anonymous
>fraction of a banomeget
*fraction of a nanometer
2 years ago
Anonymous
>a tiny tiny loop so small that no experiment can see it
Conveniently unfalsifiable.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Hello fricking dumbass. Don't know if you knew, but we discovered the atomic nucleus way before we could see it. Observation is not the only way to test existence. Uranus and Neptune were both accepted as existing before they were observed. Compactified dimensions, should they exist, affect the universe in way we can (in the near future) test. Brainlet fricking moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>should they exist
At what energy? Astrologers knew where Neptune and Jupiter had to be, precisely. So tell me what energy, precisely, such compactied dimensions are at.
no, you misunderstand. though Kaluza Klein theories often say that the extra dimensions are so small that they are not “resolvable” with in terms of actually looking at particles or waves moving in the compactified dimensions, they do make concrete predictions. like as i said the 5D original Kaluza Klein theory predicts long range effects of the compactified dimension. and what it predicts is specific: only macroscopic gravity plus macroscopic electromagnetism, and no other (precisely 0 other) forces. it predicts e.g. that nuclear forces do not exist, so it is extremely well ruled out due to this very easily testable prediction being totally wrong
>Kaluza Klein theory predicts long range effects of the compactified dimension.
How long?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Klein theory predicts long range effects of the compactified dimension. >How long?
i said this already. the original 5D Kalisz Klein theory predicts maxwell electromagnetism. you know like lightbulbs and radio antennas. in technical terms we consider 1/r^2 forces like this to have “infinite range”
2 years ago
Anonymous
dont bother with this GPT-3 moron
2 years ago
Anonymous
seethe more
2 years ago
Anonymous
U mad? Kys
2 years ago
Anonymous
no, you misunderstand. though Kaluza Klein theories often say that the extra dimensions are so small that they are not “resolvable” with in terms of actually looking at particles or waves moving in the compactified dimensions, they do make concrete predictions. like as i said the 5D original Kaluza Klein theory predicts long range effects of the compactified dimension. and what it predicts is specific: only macroscopic gravity plus macroscopic electromagnetism, and no other (precisely 0 other) forces. it predicts e.g. that nuclear forces do not exist, so it is extremely well ruled out due to this very easily testable prediction being totally wrong
2 years ago
Anonymous
>gravity plus macroscopic electromagnetism, and no other (precisely 0 other) forces. it predicts e.g. that nuclear forces do not exist, so it is extremely well ruled out due to this very easily testable prediction being totally wrong
It's unfortunate that a theory would totally be thrown out after having promising results and ideas, simply because it did not fit into it 2 standardly accepted things; surely such a theory could be tweaked to hold this or that without entirely it's essence crumbling into shattered smattered scrambled shambles
2 years ago
Anonymous
>in fact they showed that a tiny loop-like dimension combined with 4 normal dimensions gives a remarkable prediction: the extra dimension has effects at large distances that look almost just like Maxwell’s electromagnetism
So how did God manufacture all those tiny perfect little loops at all points in space? Manufacturing all those little atoms was hard enough for me to accept, now this, something much smaller, and much more numerous? Yeahh righttt
2 years ago
Anonymous
>So how did God manufacture all those tiny perfect little loops at all points in space?
it’s not like that. in 5K kalisa klein theory it’s not a bunch of independent loops but rather a bonafide dimension. just like at every point along say the normal x axis you have a y direction attached through that point and also a z direction. are you complaining that god had to make a special y line attached to every point on x? the only difference about the extra fifth dimension is that it loops back on itself in a very short distance.
> It's unfortunate that a theory would totally be thrown out after having promising results and ideas, simply because it did not fit into it 2 standardly accepted things; surely such a theory could be tweaked to hold this or that without entirely it's essence crumbling into shattered smattered scrambled shambles
actually the basic idea of kaluza klein theory works for more forces if you increase the number of dimensions. in fact it turns out that the minimum number of dimensions to get all the standard model forces [which is described by a gauge group SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1)] in a kaluza klein type theory is 11. Witten wrote a classic paper on this, let me post it
The highest dimension SUGRA can exist in. It is a low energy theory and cannot be quantised without introducing membranes. The interesting thing is that its Lagrangian is very simple, whereas if you compactify it down to D=4 N=4 SUGRA you get a load of extra terms leading to new particles and additional interactions.
Im watching Leonard Susskind YouTube lectures on string theory to learn the basics. Seems ok unless you think paying Leonard Susskind salary is a money laundering scam
[...]
these are decent explanations.
a brainlet explanation is that in general supergravity is a quantum field theory where you have normal spin 1/2 and 1 particles (and possibly a spin 0 Higgs sector) plus spin 2 gravitons (gravity), just like naively sticking gravity into QFT as a graviton field. the problem with the naive approach is that (as Feynman explained well) you get really unfixable divergences. but SUGRA goes beyond the naive approach by introducing supersymmetry, which implies the spin 2 graviton gets a spin 3/2 partner called the gravitino, and the gravitino helps a lot to fix the divergences so it’s a much more sensible way to formulate quantum gravity. SUGRA can come in different numbers of space time dimensions and number of supersymmetries, but not arbitrary—it only makes sense with certain combinations of number of dimensions and number of supersymmetries. you can take a higher dimension SUGRA and do compactification on it, and the effective theory that comes out is usually a lower dimensional SUGRA theory with more supersymmetries. the highest dimension SUGRA has 11 dimensions and 1 supersymmetry and compactifications of different kinds give a lot of the other possible SUGRAs so 11D N=1 is known as the “mother of all supergravities”
another point is that 11D N=1 SUGRA is the low-energy limit of M theory corresponding to the limit where the string/brane tension is infinite (i.e. the strings and branes shrink down to particles if they are super hard to stretch)
let me take this opportunity to post an absolute classic by an hero of supergravity and superstrings where he explains this all like a maestro and also goes borderline schizo too (shortly before he killed himself), Joel Scherk
Not physics. have a nice day. Susskind should go back to cleaning toilets.
Theoretical physics work very closely with experimentalists to test and falsify their models.
Mathematicians throw their hands up and say their model can't be tested for (insert litany of impossible criteria that can't be fulfilled)
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Theoretical physics work very closely with experimentalists to test and falsify their models.
Never trust an experimental result until it has been confirmed by theory.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sounds like you assume all theoretical physicists are phenomenologists
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not an assumption. It's a fact. The only proper theorists remaining in physics are in pheno. "Theoretical physics" has been taken over by mathematicians who fail at both math (lack of rigour) and physics (lack of modeling reality). Anyone who is a mathematical physicist or a "theoretical physicist" (not pheno) should be terminated from their positions.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Seems like the situation is the problem is too big and challenging for individuals to hold all aspects and mysteries and tasks in their head, thus specialization, thus multiple aspects needed to approach the problem, are infighting due to lack of cohesive collective success.
Everyone looking at and worrying about their little picture, none from the seperate groups coming together to discuss the big and little pictures.
There is raw phenomenon.
Theory is required
Math is required
Technique, theory, and math to relate and relay phenomenon is required
To make progress in the continually increased comprehension of the parts and possibilities of the world
Our current understanding of dimensionality is wrong.
(x^2)^0.5 does not equal (x^0.5)^2 even though the rules used to simply it are used in these higher dimensional theories.
The highest dimension SUGRA can exist in. It is a low energy theory and cannot be quantised without introducing membranes. The interesting thing is that its Lagrangian is very simple, whereas if you compactify it down to D=4 N=4 SUGRA you get a load of extra terms leading to new particles and additional interactions.
a brainlet explanation is that in general supergravity is a quantum field theory where you have normal spin 1/2 and 1 particles (and possibly a spin 0 Higgs sector) plus spin 2 gravitons (gravity), just like naively sticking gravity into QFT as a graviton field. the problem with the naive approach is that (as Feynman explained well) you get really unfixable divergences. but SUGRA goes beyond the naive approach by introducing supersymmetry, which implies the spin 2 graviton gets a spin 3/2 partner called the gravitino, and the gravitino helps a lot to fix the divergences so it’s a much more sensible way to formulate quantum gravity. SUGRA can come in different numbers of space time dimensions and number of supersymmetries, but not arbitrary—it only makes sense with certain combinations of number of dimensions and number of supersymmetries. you can take a higher dimension SUGRA and do compactification on it, and the effective theory that comes out is usually a lower dimensional SUGRA theory with more supersymmetries. the highest dimension SUGRA has 11 dimensions and 1 supersymmetry and compactifications of different kinds give a lot of the other possible SUGRAs so 11D N=1 is known as the “mother of all supergravities”
another point is that 11D N=1 SUGRA is the low-energy limit of M theory corresponding to the limit where the string/brane tension is infinite (i.e. the strings and branes shrink down to particles if they are super hard to stretch)
let me take this opportunity to post an absolute classic by an hero of supergravity and superstrings where he explains this all like a maestro and also goes borderline schizo too (shortly before he killed himself), Joel Scherk
>1% classical physics words found
my post assumes that if you are curious about 11D SUGRA then it’s expected you know prerequisites that go beyond just classical physics, like for example quantum physics and quantum field theory. if you haven’t learned about quantum mechanical spin (something intrinsically quantum with no classical analog) then there is no hope to ask this question expecting a helpful answer, unless you expect a crash course in quantum physics and QFT to get you to the bare minimum
Im watching Leonard Susskind YouTube lectures on string theory to learn the basics. Seems ok unless you think paying Leonard Susskind salary is a money laundering scam
honestly I've accepted that gravity is just a wave, particles don't exist, and mass is some sort of unfillable quantity that is attracted to each other in the same way ionized atoms are. This would also explain weak/strong nuclear forces well because each gravity level is discrete much like electron levels
the most elaborate money laundering scam to ever exist
Gravity that includes supersymmetry that is built on an 11-dimensional (10 spatial and one temporal, 10+1) representation that is compactified down to 3+1 dimensional when connecting to measurements
these are decent explanations.
a brainlet explanation is that in general supergravity is a quantum field theory where you have normal spin 1/2 and 1 particles (and possibly a spin 0 Higgs sector) plus spin 2 gravitons (gravity), just like naively sticking gravity into QFT as a graviton field. the problem with the naive approach is that (as Feynman explained well) you get really unfixable divergences. but SUGRA goes beyond the naive approach by introducing supersymmetry, which implies the spin 2 graviton gets a spin 3/2 partner called the gravitino, and the gravitino helps a lot to fix the divergences so it’s a much more sensible way to formulate quantum gravity. SUGRA can come in different numbers of space time dimensions and number of supersymmetries, but not arbitrary—it only makes sense with certain combinations of number of dimensions and number of supersymmetries. you can take a higher dimension SUGRA and do compactification on it, and the effective theory that comes out is usually a lower dimensional SUGRA theory with more supersymmetries. the highest dimension SUGRA has 11 dimensions and 1 supersymmetry and compactifications of different kinds give a lot of the other possible SUGRAs so 11D N=1 is known as the “mother of all supergravities”
another point is that 11D N=1 SUGRA is the low-energy limit of M theory corresponding to the limit where the string/brane tension is infinite (i.e. the strings and branes shrink down to particles if they are super hard to stretch)
let me take this opportunity to post an absolute classic by an hero of supergravity and superstrings where he explains this all like a maestro and also goes borderline schizo too (shortly before he killed himself), Joel Scherk
Analyzing text...
99% custom word terms found
1% classical physics words found
0% 404 logic not found
>1% classical physics words found
my post assumes that if you are curious about 11D SUGRA then it’s expected you know prerequisites that go beyond just classical physics, like for example quantum physics and quantum field theory. if you haven’t learned about quantum mechanical spin (something intrinsically quantum with no classical analog) then there is no hope to ask this question expecting a helpful answer, unless you expect a crash course in quantum physics and QFT to get you to the bare minimum
Good pilpul, 5/7. Unfortunately you didn't actually answer anything.
what does pilpul mean? an /x/ term?
anyhow i gave an attempt to explain OP’s question of “what is 11D supergravity”. are you unhappy with it, or is there a specific question you would like answered?
Yeah, go ahead and explain what a "compactied dimension" is.
a compactified dimension is something that goes way back in history to the works of Theodor Kaluza and Oskar Klein, when they were studying general relativity. it was also later looked at (but discarded) by Albert Einstein. the idea is that the theory of general relativity admits solutions in dimensions other than 4 (up/down, left/right, in/out, and later/earlier) so they explored what these higher dimensional theories might mean. they had the idea that if there is one extra dimension then it would not contradict experiment if it were curved (in the sense that space curves in GR) so extremely that it curves into a tiny tiny loop so small that no experiment can see it. so that’s what a compactified dimension is: another space time dimension that is very very small, so small that it is imperceptible to humans because moving “along” that direction by even a fraction of a banomeget winds you up back where you started over and over
in fact they showed that a tiny loop-like dimension combined with 4 normal dimensions gives a remarkable prediction: the extra dimension has effects at large distances that look almost just like Maxwell’s electromagnetism
>fraction of a banomeget
*fraction of a nanometer
>a tiny tiny loop so small that no experiment can see it
Conveniently unfalsifiable.
Hello fricking dumbass. Don't know if you knew, but we discovered the atomic nucleus way before we could see it. Observation is not the only way to test existence. Uranus and Neptune were both accepted as existing before they were observed. Compactified dimensions, should they exist, affect the universe in way we can (in the near future) test. Brainlet fricking moron.
>should they exist
At what energy? Astrologers knew where Neptune and Jupiter had to be, precisely. So tell me what energy, precisely, such compactied dimensions are at.
>Kaluza Klein theory predicts long range effects of the compactified dimension.
How long?
Klein theory predicts long range effects of the compactified dimension.
>How long?
i said this already. the original 5D Kalisz Klein theory predicts maxwell electromagnetism. you know like lightbulbs and radio antennas. in technical terms we consider 1/r^2 forces like this to have “infinite range”
dont bother with this GPT-3 moron
seethe more
U mad? Kys
no, you misunderstand. though Kaluza Klein theories often say that the extra dimensions are so small that they are not “resolvable” with in terms of actually looking at particles or waves moving in the compactified dimensions, they do make concrete predictions. like as i said the 5D original Kaluza Klein theory predicts long range effects of the compactified dimension. and what it predicts is specific: only macroscopic gravity plus macroscopic electromagnetism, and no other (precisely 0 other) forces. it predicts e.g. that nuclear forces do not exist, so it is extremely well ruled out due to this very easily testable prediction being totally wrong
>gravity plus macroscopic electromagnetism, and no other (precisely 0 other) forces. it predicts e.g. that nuclear forces do not exist, so it is extremely well ruled out due to this very easily testable prediction being totally wrong
It's unfortunate that a theory would totally be thrown out after having promising results and ideas, simply because it did not fit into it 2 standardly accepted things; surely such a theory could be tweaked to hold this or that without entirely it's essence crumbling into shattered smattered scrambled shambles
>in fact they showed that a tiny loop-like dimension combined with 4 normal dimensions gives a remarkable prediction: the extra dimension has effects at large distances that look almost just like Maxwell’s electromagnetism
So how did God manufacture all those tiny perfect little loops at all points in space? Manufacturing all those little atoms was hard enough for me to accept, now this, something much smaller, and much more numerous? Yeahh righttt
>So how did God manufacture all those tiny perfect little loops at all points in space?
it’s not like that. in 5K kalisa klein theory it’s not a bunch of independent loops but rather a bonafide dimension. just like at every point along say the normal x axis you have a y direction attached through that point and also a z direction. are you complaining that god had to make a special y line attached to every point on x? the only difference about the extra fifth dimension is that it loops back on itself in a very short distance.
> It's unfortunate that a theory would totally be thrown out after having promising results and ideas, simply because it did not fit into it 2 standardly accepted things; surely such a theory could be tweaked to hold this or that without entirely it's essence crumbling into shattered smattered scrambled shambles
actually the basic idea of kaluza klein theory works for more forces if you increase the number of dimensions. in fact it turns out that the minimum number of dimensions to get all the standard model forces [which is described by a gauge group SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1)] in a kaluza klein type theory is 11. Witten wrote a classic paper on this, let me post it
Not physics. have a nice day. Susskind should go back to cleaning toilets.
Where's the line between theoretical physics and math?
there isn't one
The all math is physics so you're a moron gtfo
Math works
Theoretical physics work very closely with experimentalists to test and falsify their models.
Mathematicians throw their hands up and say their model can't be tested for (insert litany of impossible criteria that can't be fulfilled)
>Theoretical physics work very closely with experimentalists to test and falsify their models.
Never trust an experimental result until it has been confirmed by theory.
Sounds like you assume all theoretical physicists are phenomenologists
Not an assumption. It's a fact. The only proper theorists remaining in physics are in pheno. "Theoretical physics" has been taken over by mathematicians who fail at both math (lack of rigour) and physics (lack of modeling reality). Anyone who is a mathematical physicist or a "theoretical physicist" (not pheno) should be terminated from their positions.
Seems like the situation is the problem is too big and challenging for individuals to hold all aspects and mysteries and tasks in their head, thus specialization, thus multiple aspects needed to approach the problem, are infighting due to lack of cohesive collective success.
Everyone looking at and worrying about their little picture, none from the seperate groups coming together to discuss the big and little pictures.
There is raw phenomenon.
Theory is required
Math is required
Technique, theory, and math to relate and relay phenomenon is required
To make progress in the continually increased comprehension of the parts and possibilities of the world
Who wants to bet you're some moronic tesla troony caveman.
You'd lose that bet. Bet.
Our current understanding of dimensionality is wrong.
(x^2)^0.5 does not equal (x^0.5)^2 even though the rules used to simply it are used in these higher dimensional theories.
What?
It's the field surrounding your mom.
The highest dimension SUGRA can exist in. It is a low energy theory and cannot be quantised without introducing membranes. The interesting thing is that its Lagrangian is very simple, whereas if you compactify it down to D=4 N=4 SUGRA you get a load of extra terms leading to new particles and additional interactions.
You guys keep spelling sugar wrong.
Sugra balls lmao
Im watching Leonard Susskind YouTube lectures on string theory to learn the basics. Seems ok unless you think paying Leonard Susskind salary is a money laundering scam
Susskind can't teach for shit
honestly I've accepted that gravity is just a wave, particles don't exist, and mass is some sort of unfillable quantity that is attracted to each other in the same way ionized atoms are. This would also explain weak/strong nuclear forces well because each gravity level is discrete much like electron levels
A clever way to sell more books.
Just like wolfram's theory of everything, nobody is actually studying strings at this point
mental illness
a job program for autists nobody trusts to build a rocket
>gay frog image
>have a nice day.
Go back to bed Thomas. School tomorrow.