What makes the Iliad and the Odyssey so good?

What makes the Iliad and the Odyssey so good?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Literally every work of poetry written after them in the West has Homer's DNA in it. It's obvious why we love him so much.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You think that's an answer, but that's not an answer.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        He told you that they are the main inffluence of every other work of poetry. How is that not an answer?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You think repeating his statement was necessary, but it wasn't necessary. You think it's an answer, but it's not an answer. If you can't figure it out, that's your limit.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I dont think I get your logic. According to you, being influential to generations and generations of authors is not a good trait?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I never said that, but now that you've brought it up, there's nothing intrinsically good about it.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes it is. Because the book allows you to understand where all those other works come from. And yes you did by saying that "Being influential to every other poem work" is not an answer for "being good".

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Nope, sorry. It objectively isn't. If you can't tell, you're literally stupid. You're wrong on two points at this moment. Doubling down won't help you understand. It will condemn you to eternal moronation (not that I care). Well, good luck with that.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Sidenote: this is exactly why everyone hates ESLs. Obvious ESL posters arguing as though they understand what is being said, when in reality, they don't have good enough English comprehension to even keep up and misinterpret half the posts. Obnoxious.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Can you explain me what is wrong about what I said? Great influence on others is a great merit for a book. I'm not saying all the reasons why the books are good, I only said one, but OP says that it's not something that would make the books good.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            just because something "influenced" something else doesn't *necessarily* make it good. Have you ever heard of a bad influence? There's nothing inherently good about being influential; key word: inherently.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not that anon, but would you say being a gay homosexual had a positive or negative influence in your life?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I guess that's what I get for trying to teach a 3rd worlder anything, but I'd slap you irl

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You have to realize that you are the person they make "cringe nice guy roleplayer" reddit post youtube videos about.
            It would have been far more efficient to just tell that anon your point.
            You don't want to teach anyone anything, you want people to acknowledge your intellectual superiority
            And when you're called out you resort to violence like a ghetto Black person

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            What a moron. I've never had other people here calling me ESL, and you just did it because you're so stupid you can't keep up with a conversation. We are talking about the influence that The Iliad had on other works, specifically The Iliad, we are not talking about any work in general.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I guess that's what I get for trying to teach a 3rd worlder anything, but I'd slap you irl

            You are the kind of user that doesn't discusses to reach a conclusion or to develop their ideas. You just discuss because discussing is fun to you, thus you take small words the other person said and disfigure them completely because in your mind that makes the other person look "stupid".

            >YOU kept the original thread of the discussion even though I said the word "inherently" because I prefer to discuss irrelevant things that do not add to the conversation? HAHAHAHAH YOU ARE STUPID AND YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ, I WOULD SLAP YOUR FACE IRL IF I SAW YOU

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Every page radiates SOVL (Yes even the ship pages frick you)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Book 2 is always shat on but the first half of book 2 has a lot of action with Odysseus assembling all the men and Thersites getting his old ass beaten in. It’s really only the second half of book 2 which has the catalogue of ships and it isn’t even that long.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Unironically sovl. The more sovl something has the better it is without fail. The Odyssey and the Iliad had TONS of sovl, they had the first record example of SOVL and everyone who also had sovl loved it and then went on to write stuff with SOVL that was influenced by it.
    So by virtue of having a lot of SOVL a really long time ago, its awesome.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Aryan tale untainted by Abrahamic morals and sensibilities.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Agreed.
      >Wealth should not be seized: God-given wealth is much better;
      Yeah, be a cuck and let the wealthy lord over you.
      >For easily he makes strong, and easily he brings the strong man low; easily he humbles the proud and raises the obscure, and easily he straightens the crooked and blasts the proud
      More abrahamic bullshit. Can't believe Cuckstians really buy this. "Muh meek will inherit the earth"
      >listen to right and do not foster violence; for violence is bad for a poor man. Even the prosperous cannot easily bear its burden, but is weighed down under it when he has fallen into delusion. The better path is to go by on the other side towards justice;
      Blah blah blah. Tired of christcucks and their bullshit.
      >to do is a greater evil than to suffer injustice: and not to be punished than to be punished.
      Might makes right, cucks. Abrahamisms ruined the west. Can't believe christians really read this garbage.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        2000 years of this bullshit has seized the minds of Goys so deeply that it’s as its imprinted on the genetic code of western man. Western people are not made into Abrahamist today, they are born into it. There is no way to for them to ignore it or revert back to older forms of belief, only to overcome but then the overcoming will still result in something very different from the ancient man (better or worse, who can tell?)

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I hope you're playing in to the bait. If not, look up where those quotes come from...

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            NTA, but to be fair Hesioid was for peasants and Homer was based military propaganda for the landed aristocrats.
            It even accounts for its essential status as propaganda, which is far more than most any modern brainwash does.
            >tfw the state (Agamemnon) might take your glory but you can still collude with the poets and die heroically.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >he actually doesn't know

      I would also like to know. I haven't read the iliad, but the way that anons here praise it to such an extreme makes me suspicious of them, given that a work written 2000+ years ago can hardly be expected to conform to the taste of a modern literary person.

      I understand where you're coming from, but you are wrong. Humanity is still humanity, the sublime is still the sublime, then and now.

      https://i.imgur.com/b2eBwYw.jpeg

      What makes the Iliad and the Odyssey so good?

      They're very pure archetypal stories that feel realistic and elevated in the right respective ways/places.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      LARPhomosexuals gtfo! Stop lowering the IQ of every board with your cope.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Greeks were black

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      based, got the little bioleninist kids seething madly

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I would also like to know. I haven't read the iliad, but the way that anons here praise it to such an extreme makes me suspicious of them, given that a work written 2000+ years ago can hardly be expected to conform to the taste of a modern literary person.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >given that a work written 2000+ years ago can hardly be expected to conform to the taste of a modern literary person.
      The tastes of your favorite literary person's favorite literary persons were informed by a lineage that began with Homer.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      You would be surprised. Most of it is basically some warhammer 40k-esque chad sigmas constantly arguing with each other about who has the bigger wiener.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >basically some warhammer 40k-esque chad sigmas constantly arguing with each other about who has the bigger wiener
        Do you always think in such manchild terms?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          AITA If I do?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Go back, Black person.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Do you always think in such racist terms?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Yes.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >basically some warhammer 40k-esque chad sigmas constantly arguing with each other about who has the bigger wiener

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I read both and found the praise rather overdone. Certainly worth reading, but it felt distant and stiff to me. Ancient people are weird.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Just read it you lazy dolt
      You won't regret it

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      IQfy does not have the taste of a modern literary person.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I know IQfy"s gonna say it's le heckin based but when he hanged all his maidservants for being bawds it kind of ruined it for me. How can you identify with him

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Thats why we identify with him. Guro for life.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Gave me a boner.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      They deserved it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This is why giving women rights was a mistake. They simply can't understand the concept of actions having consequences.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >hanged all his maidservants for being bawds
      It's not that they were being bawds, maidservants and female slaves are pretty much allowed to frick whoever. It's that they were fricking those suitors who were basically holding their house and Penelope hostage. They sided with the enemy, so they shared their fate. If Melantho was giving handjobs to Eumaius the whole time, she would have lived.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because it’s nonfiction

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    the lore goes deep. Porphyry's commentary on the cave of the nymphs is a nice rabbit hole.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      qrd?

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I do.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's very simple. Homer's poetry is nothing but a long compilation of masculine vices. It is the true form of male smut.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    For me?
    It's Diomedes

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    idk ask me in 2 or 3 weeks im reading it rn..
    Insane coincidence

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Its our only glimpse of raw Greek world and western world in general before philosophy dominated our thought and also before they became pedophiles

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    No one in this thread has yet convinced me. What specifically is good about them? Don't be so vague.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What aspect of the term “good” are you referring to? There’s lots of different reasons to enjoy Homer. You can’t pinpoint just one. I would say however, that the Odyssey’s theme of identity is what draws me to it. Odysseus’ place in the world is as the King of Ithaca and even temptresses such as Calypso mean nothing to him because they aren’t authentically his. Calypso isn’t his woman and by her side isn’t where he belongs. The theme of finding one’s place in the world is one which passes down through the centuries to us.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Maybe I can't find anything beautiful in the translated poetry. I have 5 translations of the Odyssey and I can't read them, not Lattimore, not gayles, it's all unreadable, I think purposely so.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          No, you've just hit your limit.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No, I think it's bad. It's not hard to read, it's just bad. Now, what is your preferred translation?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I know you think it. That's how I know you're at your limit, obviously. I like all the translations. They each have their merits. Lattimore is my preferred.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Lattimore is closest to Greek syntax and is difficult to read at times so I can understand him finding that hard. gayles is colloquial and entirely annotated. That shouldn’t be difficult at all for a newb.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Clearly you don't understand. Stop pretending to be a moron. My issue is that it's not beautiful, not that it's hard. If there was a beautiful translation, obviously I wouldn't have this opinion.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The story is beautiful. The imagery is beautiful. Chapman was good enough for Keats, if you don't like it that's a you problem.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >NoOoOoOOOOO! You can't understand me! I'm tooooo sophisticated!!!!
            You're not. You're just another filtered brainlet. One of billions.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The mechanics of the book are beautiful or not depending on the translations but the themes as have already been stated in this thread are applicable to anyone in any place. The beauty of Penelope’s half-hearted weaving and the theme of eternal, unflinching love are definitely beautiful no matter what. Basically, you were filtered my friend.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Lattimore is closest to Greek syntax and is difficult to read at times so I can understand him finding that hard. gayles is colloquial and entirely annotated. That shouldn’t be difficult at all for a newb.

            What do you think of the Butler version?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It’s arcane and there are better versions. Mostly it is reprinted because it is public domain so cheap ass publishers can reprint without issue.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I own both and have read them several times now. You are just not cut out for poetry it would seem.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >iliad and odyssey are good reads
    greeks and romans knew how to make tragedy seem heroic, romantic or noble, despite tragedy being the bane of life they didn't shrink from it and instead bathed in it like savages bathing in blood thus owning the worst parts of life as something to be written about
    probably would be better as a theater play the books are impossible to drudge through

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