It was a fantastic tale. I wrote a huge post about it but it got deleted because "lol wrong captcha xD", so frick all that shit.
GRRM is a moron for thinking of this tale in such a realistic lens. "What was Aragorn's tax policy?" Is he an idiot? Does he not understand that this story was a fairy tale about war and the effects it has on the all enduring human spirit?
I swear too many people took this work far too literally. Jesus Christ.
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Glad you liked the books anon. Now you must read the Silmarillion.
I will. It was how he meant people to read the work, so I'll do it.
Ah, I need to get to this. I read Lord of the rings last year, but I've yet to read this, despite it being on my bookshelf just as I am typing this message!
>GRRM is a moron for thinking of this tale in such a realistic lens. "What was Aragorn's tax policy?" Is he an idiot? Does he not understand that this story was a fairy tale about war and the effects it has on the all enduring human spirit?
What was King Robert's tax policy? King Aegon's? No one fricking knows because GRRM didn't just miss the point of LotR, he's a hypocrite.
To be as charitable as possible to the fat man, I think he was trying to say that just because Aragorn was a good warrior and leader during war, that it doesn't automatically follow that he'd be a good king.
Robert is probably GRRM's answer to that question. Robert actively hates administering a kingdom and wishes he were still fighting and leading armies around. He cared so little about the administration part that he let Littlefinger do whatever he wanted with no guard rails, which led to Littlefinger embezzling massive sums of money.
It's still a silly comparison because Aragorn is a partial aspect/prefiguration of Christ. He's Christ the prephesied King, Tolkien just cut Jesus's 1000 year reign in half when the epilogue states that Aragorn ruled for 500 years.
The whole point of Robert’s character was to show that a warrior and a “hero” type character don’t make for good kings. There is more to being a king than just winning the throne, and Robert obviously neglected his counsellors at the small council to prostitute and drink and have tourneys. That’s the point. He doesn’t have a tax policy because he just doesn’t care about being a king.
>GRRM is a moron for thinking of this tale in such a realistic lens. "What was Aragorn's tax policy?" Is he an idiot? Does he not understand that this story was a fairy tale about war and the effects it has on the all enduring human spirit?
You are a moron for misunderstanding GRRMs quotation here actually. He loves and enjoys Lord of the Rings. He is commenting on his own writing style, and how it was effected by enjoying Lord of the Rings, and how he began to think about fantasy and reality and what he personally liked to or wanted to portray. He isn't shitting on Tolkien or LOTR. Stop being propagandized by image macros, please.
it's pretty good. i read it as a child and thought it was le heckin greatest literature ever. watched the movies plenty of times in the intervening years, then decided to reread the books last year.
overall, they are very good, and you can see why they were so influential, but some of it really doesn't hold up. i really don't much like his portrayal of sam as this blindly stupid loyal fool who is very much aware of how stupid he is and is basically one step up from frodo's dog as a character. and aragorn is really annoying in the book, he's constantly bragging and singing randomly, and instead of everyone being like uhhh ok they're all like
>wow verily do we live in the age where tales come to life
and gaze upon him with amazement. i know tolkein didn't write it to be bragging but it's very much how it comes across, and it's something peter jackson was right to remove in the films
also, theoden is total garbage in the book. he's not under some spell by saruman, he's basically just a senile old fool that wormtongue tricks into just wrecking his own kingdom, and gandalf just comes along and basically says
>come on mate, stop being shit
and he just snaps out of it. strange decision by tolkein
Would recommend Tolkien's essay "On Fairy Stories", short story "Leaf by Niggle", and poem "Mythopoeia" as companion pieces.
Tolkien's hatred for fairy stories is misguided. He was inspired by them. LOTR wouldnt exist without the early fantasy.
>Tolkien's hatred for fairy stories
proof? I got exactly the opposite insight from On Fairy Stories i.e. people back in the pre-industrial days had more common sense
He used to write them for his wife in his early days. He soured on them over time though
>Tolkien's hatred for fairy stories
Are you some kind of moron?
Cinema sins has destroyed a generation of story tellers.
>Actually these constellations would not be visible on this side of the equator. *DING!*
>Sure good is good and evil and evil but what about the baby orcs? Did they have to die too? *DING!*
>This movie does not pass thr Bechdel test. *DING!*
>what's that? A joke that uses an anachronism? This silly comedy must be up to scruples! *DING!*
Who even watches Cinemasins these days
Who was your favorite character, OP?
I'm rereading the trilogy right now. Just finished "A Conspiracy Unmasked" tonight. Man, I forgot how genuinely clever and crafty the hobbits are. Jackson's movies use them for a lot of broad comedy but a lot of them are surprisingly subtle and wise. Not just Frodo, Merry is quite cunning and sharp, too. I really love book Merry, he's very witty as well.
I'm going to have to go with Sam. I feel a kinship to his character, the way he self deprecates but still has fierce loyalty to his values, master, and chosen path.
I LOVED the first book and the Mines of Moria chapter is probably the greatest thing put to page in fiction; not even exaggerating.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
Chills every fricking time, man
Loved Merry and Pippin in the books. Also, Pippin's last thought before he thinks he is about to die in the last battle... tears every time, man
Oh man this world is amazing, I can't wait to learn more about the lore and about the elves and Gandalf as Frodo and the hobbits adventu-
>HEY DOL MERRY DOL RING A DONG DILLO
>RING A DONG HOP ALONG FAL LAL THE WILLOW
>TOM BOM JOLLY TOM TOM BOMBADILLO
Well, ok that was a bit odd but necessary for the plot to advance, let's see what the next chapter has in store
>HO TOM BOMBADIL TOM BOMBADILLO BY WATER WOOD AND HILL BY THE REED AND WILLOW
Ok that's over with finally the story can resume as norm-
>OLD TOM BOMBADIL IS A MERRY FELLOW BRIGHT BLUE HIS JACKET IS
>AND HIS BOOTS ARE YELLOW
As I've gotten older and reread the trilogy multiple times the Bombadil parts have become some of my favorite in the entire series. I might actually have gotten to the point where "In the House of Tom Bombadil" is my favorite LOTR chapter.
Tom Bombadil's chapters are a pleb filter. An inability to appreciate them reveals either one's low age or lack of soul.
I rather like the Bombadil chapters, the real issue is him saving them from the Wights. Absolutely robs the story of a real sense of danger for quite a while afterwards.
bombadil embodies the pagan concept of hospitality or somethin
idk i'm not smart enough to back it up but it's probably true
He's deliberately a mystery. I see him as an example of weird bits of myths that come out of left field and don't seem to fit, but they're still part of the myth so you've got to accept them. Like the weird bit in Exodus where God tries to kill Moses for no apparent reason.
kek do you know the verse and chapter of the God and Moses thing?
Exodus 4:24
24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.
25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.
>pagan concept of hospitality
is this related to cannibalism or somethin?
study germanic/norse paganism.
they had a culture of hospitality. accepting strangers into your home and feeding them is a part of many germanic/norse myths.
i guess its on me for assuming people in a tolkien thread would be familiar with the source material that LotR is based on, lol
anon I asked because you studied them enough to give a concise and fitting answer that settles the matter
unless you are much inferior to any Christian... in which case I understand why you wont (cannibalism, child abuse etc etc 🙂
>they had a culture of hospitality. accepting strangers into your home and feeding them is a part of many germanic/norse myths.
that's like saying "I have a culture of honoring contracts" yeah right take that to the bank and apply for a loan lol
Treow/oathkeeping and hospitality were the foundations of their law. They took it seriously.
I am 100% for the nordic "steal the prettiest wives" attitude but what you are telling me is still not an answer
What the frick are you on about dude? Hospitality was important to Germanic pagan culture. It has nothing to do with cannibalism. I’m not sure what “answer” you’re seeking. Are you asking me to confirm whether or not Germanic pagans practiced cannibalism? The answer would be that I don’t know.
I seriously cannot comprehend why you’re saying any of this. Whatever point you’re reaching for is lost on me. I merely provided some information.
Tolkien was writing in the pagan tradition. He was a professor of Norse studies.
>Democratic Republic of Germany is Democratic because it's called the Democratic Republic of Germany
don't worry, one day you will understand
??? is this a bot? you just keep replying with non-sequiturs. speak plainly.
you are just some trash your hypothetical nordics would have executed without a second thought
so be kind and frick off and never post on the internet again
Oh, I get it know, you're mistaking my cursory knowledge of germanic paganism for an allegiance to paganism. You're also unhinged and strange.
I'm sorry to inform you that you're shadowboxing.
>im not gay u are shabowdoxing!!!!11111
take meds
dude I said that Bombadil might've been in part a reference to pagan concepts of hospitality (Tolkien studied pagan texts) and you immediately assumed i was a pagan and started sperging out and getting assmad at me. i have no idea how you can be so moronic. i'm not pagan. you're being a huge homosexual.
>x is y
>z studied y
>you assumed I know y
>why do you assume I am affiliated with y?!
>why?
>why?
>reeeeee
>YOU SPERGING OUT ASSMAD
>I DID NOTHING WRONG
>I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH Y
>I AM NOT A homosexual YOU ARE
>t. pegan pride
the frick
i'm not pagan.
so what the frick are you going on about pagan hospitality you wienersucking steak?!
in a watsonian sense, tom bombadil is probably the wild spirit of middle earth itself, represented as happy and welcoming but also mysterious, as that's how tolkien viewed eru (god) who created middle earth
From a doyleist perspective, he's kind of a meta joke between tolkien and his family. he was a character that tolkien came up with for his children when he told them bedtime stories, so in a meta sense he was there "before the stones and the trees" because he was literally created as a character before tolkien conceived of middle earth
You shouldn't be considered an adult until you're 33
You shouldn't be allowed to marry until then either
Society should deindustrialize a bit
Less emphasis on formal education and qualification for employment
Why 33?
every time i try to read this i get bored within the first 200 pages. ive heard it gets better but the first book sucks
For me it's the opposite the first book is the best and the closer Frodo gets to Mordor (past Rivendell) the more of a slog it becomes
it's a RPF (reverse pleb filter): plebs keep reading while the patricians are Tolkien's brothers
but it's ok, after all, even Middle Earth needs slaves :3
Unfinished Tales is underrated
https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Aldarion_and_Erendis:_The_Mariner%27s_Wife
I like how at the end the king admits that Erendis is being a bitter c**t and that Aldarion was in the right.
btw when you get wrong captcha while making a thread and your post disappears you have to navigate back on the website and then try it again and your text will be there again
I usually kinda stop rereading after Lothlórien. Between the breaking of the fellowship to the siege of Minas Tirith is a part that tires me out.
I can understand why. Not that the part after Lothlórien is worse, but it's where the fantastical adventure stops and grim reality begins in a different sort of way. My favourite part is probably the journey from the Shire to Rivendell.
>deleted because "lol wrong captcha xD
I'm kekking at the fact you dont know you could have easily gotten it back, newbie
>it got deleted because "lol wrong captcha xD"
It wasn't deleted. All you had to do was returned to the previous screen and type the correct captcha.
>another lotr vs asoiaf thread
there's a containment for this now since you dont like the fantasy general
Holy FRICK. GRRM offered the most mild critique of LOTR and you morons have been seething for years, it’s hardly even criticism. He just said he would like to approach the picture differently. Stupid fricks, I hate Tolkien fanboys so much.
GRRM hardly qualifies as a human being while Tolkien is somewhere in the top 0.5% even if I disagree with him
>hasn't read him
>but is sure he's a genius
oh, frick off and think for yourself for once
hey I didn't say he was a genius, I said he was a high quality man
also the word "genius" is synonymous with being a one-trick pony, so you are technically right: he was a genius, as all his efforts went into developing the same world...
I mostly enjoy his non-fiction, his fiction bores me
>It was a fantastic tale. I wrote a huge post about it but it got deleted because "lol wrong captcha xD",
Liar liar pants on fire
are there any casinos in Tolkien's world?
what about jails?
Someone post the chart, I know someone has it.
If I disliked Jackson's LOTR, will I dislike the books?
i would bet $50 that yes
OK, I won't try them then.
if you are under 25 maybe try The Hobbit, it's short and rolls along quite nicely
LOTR is worth trying too, until you get bored; when you get bored you just put it down and be at peace, that's what I did
but then again I didn't "dislike" Jackson's LOTR, hence my confidence in the wager 🙂
So if you didn't finish LOTR, which your post implies, can you call yourself a real fan/an accurate judge?
I didn't call myself a "real fan" or an "accurate judge"
but I believe that one can judge how salty soup is just by tasting a spoonful... one need not drink the entire cauldron, need he?
that being said I appreciate people who like LOTR and that's that believe it or not.
If you don't like LotR then you aren't white. Sorry.
I think you can get some enjoyment from the books. Sure, some of the beats are the same, but the books still have quality storytelling that aren't featured in the films.
It means you probably will like the books.
There is virtually no overlap between filmgays and bookgays where Tolkien is concerned.
Tolkien himself was clearly an Elfaboo but Gondor is my favorite faction in the trilogy. I would love to be a Man of Gondor and live in Minas Tirith or Dol Amroth.
Let us be reality; the movies are better and some of the best films of all time
A lot of writers do this thing where they try too hard to say something intellectual and profound and often that is critical of other writers or ideas. I think that’s basically what Martin was doing here and if I had to guess if he regrets this interview, I would say he does.
But the thing about Martin specifically that it makes clear is that he’s grasping at straws for ways to differentiate himself from Tolkien while at the same time likening himself. Why? Because Tolkien is the god-father of fantasy, the spiritual success of ancient and medieval myth, and a literary giant, while Martin is basically nothing more than a screenwriter that puddles smut. In fact, his novels would have been considered smut in any prior century. It would be too shameful for him to be honest and open about the fact that in truth, his novels are more D&D nerd power fantasy than proper heir to Tolkien. This is a guy that collects action figures and proudly displays them in his house. He is an ultra-modern, ethically impoverished, progressive and degenerate boomer who merely put his most ridiculous fantasies and takes on paper, and the shock of that on the big screen carried it to popularity. The key to popularity in contemporary television is exciting the senses. It’s about incest, pedophilia, crushed skulls, and gorey gushing wounds. That’s what gets the masses interested, that’s what carries a book over the top in sales and popularity, and that’s all these books are. If you removed the smut, the incest, pedophilia, the nudity and the sex, the gore and over-the-top violence, these books are basically nothing at all. And that’s why he feels so pressured to make comments like this. He desperately wants to justify why this is somehow literary and not just something a lot like porn. And the easiest way to do that is to disparage the greats who didn’t do what you do. After all, could Tolkien really have been a great writer if nobody fricked their sister or got their head squished like a grape in his books? Whoops! I mean, if he didn’t make clear that Aragorn was good because he had a progressive wealth redistribution plan and civil rights law for orcs? Am I right, media? Please shill my books.
>Because Tolkien is the god-father of fantasy
Lord Dunsany, Kipling, Robert E Howard and Edgar Rice Burroughs are all miles more important than him. Hell the whole fight over a magic mcguffin that can defeat the scary necromancer in lord of the rings is a total ripoff of hour of the dragon.
Reading HOTD right now. Tolkien is a pussy, but he's /our/ pussy.
Also frick GRRM for stealing another thing's initials.
>people took this work far too literally
Falling on the Bible cuck defense.