>you can easily live off $400k passively,
Im from Spain and already have 400k€. How the frick do you live passively of that? Monetary funds are giving you around 3.7% at current rates, which will go lower.
So what do you have left that doesn't require volatility risk? (If you are into SP500, it can crash 20%+, not to mention 10+ year of bagholding in periods like dotcom or 2008)
>muh dividends
The underlying investment fluctuates. Also all the good dividend paying ETFs are from the US. I can buy stuff like SCHD or JEPI but the yield for SCHD is too low to live off 400k anyway, and JEPI is some wierd product backed by options, also the capital is probably shrinking against real inflation (has no growth in exchange of higher yield). Also consider taxes, and that dividends from the US have retention, so you have to wait for the next year to get them back by filing W8BEN. Its so fricking annoying. Also costs on every dividend payment in my bank at least are 0.3%
According to my calculations, you need at least 1 million invested to makeit, ideally 2, 1 million cool house, 1 million invested.
I need at least a 5x on this fricking money. I would have made it if I went all in on MSTR a couple months ago but I pussied out. Now im fricked.
again, holding stocks will put you at a lot of risk due volatility
so you get a lot of high yield but your stock crashes 50%, you are fricked, simple concept that dividendgays fail to grasp
>So what do you have left that doesn't require volatility risk?
tbills, real estate in a good location but there is always a risk.
tbills suck, you lock your capital for a long time, and the yield is low anyway, and it will eventually go down when zirp arrives
1 month ago
Anonymous
>you lock your capital for a long time
what are 1-month tbills anon?
1 month ago
Anonymous
what yield are you talking about? im already on money market monetary funds which have 1 to 3 months debt and yield is around €STR index (3.6-3.9%) at current rates, again, when rates are lowered it will be less
I guess depends how much you spend
My average spending per month on rent, food, electricity etc etc all that stuff comes out to around $1000 per month, or about $15k per year i guess
You can surely expect $15k per year with $400k?
I mean i dont live luxuriously or anything but its above NEETs
thats dogshit mate, and it only works if you inherited a house or live with your mom (i live with my mom)
you need 2000€ a month for decent living
[...]
Just google FIRE and the 3%/4% rule. It has already been figured out. Mostly stocks, some bonds (or maybe gold), withdraw 3% of the portfolio in year 1, then withdraw the same amount but adjusted for inflation every year after. Do it right and you can probably make your money last for the rest of your life, even if you retire into another great depression.
this has only been calculated for the sp500 and bonds frick up the plan, also again, what if the sp500 dumps? you will be getting 3% out of potentially 30% less or more
this why again, you need to be able to live off that 3%, even after a big crash, and for that you need 1 million
1 month ago
Anonymous
>what if the sp500 dumps?
This is why you use the projection models, it will show you the number of outcomes in which they fail.
If you want to be extremely safe, then dump everything in TIPS or whatever. But your net worth will likely shrink over time and you will miss out on market gains
Again this stuff has pretty much been figured out, 3% works in 99.9% of scenarios
You can live off 15k but that's pretty much poverty line, you will basically be able to eat and pay rent and nothing else
1 month ago
Anonymous
like i said before, you ahve to account for max drawdon
yes, withdrawing 3% from a 100% sp500 portfolio should not result in loss of capital overtime (with some growth, im not sure how much)
my point is, you get a 50% crash year, and you are getting 3% from your initial capital -50%, so if you had 500k, you would get 3% from 250k, good luck with that
>what yield are you talking about?
there is this thing called google where you can type things like "1 month tbill rate" and it gives you an answer
rates are different in eu pic rel
also again, they will drop once rates fall
1 month ago
Anonymous
>rates are different in eu pic rel
ok but why are you talking about euro bonds i'm talking about tbills? 4 week t bills have had a rate of 5%+ for almost a year now.
1 month ago
Anonymous
im not a burger and if i buy american tbills it defeats the point due currency conversion risk and fees and again rates will not stay up for the 9999th time dumbass
1 month ago
Anonymous
>my point is, you get a 50% crash year, and you are getting 3% from your initial capital -50%, so if you had 500k, you would get 3% from 250k, good luck with that
You're misunderstanding. You withdraw 3% from 500k in year 1 (15k), the next year inflation is 2% and the S&P 500 dumps 50%, and now you withdraw 15k + 2% (15.3k) from that ~250k. That's how the withdrawals are done in the simulations - you're not stuck with 3% of whatever your current portfolio is. It still works because the market's recovery and later growth makes up for your losses.
Also, if it was always a fixed percentage of your current portfolio, you would never run out of money even with a 99% withdrawal rate.
1 month ago
Anonymous
no, the models are calculated withdrawing 3% every year no matter what, if you try to compensate crashes by withdrawing more you'll frick it up
you need 1 million to retire properly so you can sustain 50% crash and still live from a 3% withdraw, stop coping
1 month ago
Anonymous
>able to eat and pay rent
The whole point of this situation is to have the leeway to find a better/comfortable way to earn money without being a corporate slave and having the risk of going homeless. It's a starting point.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>what yield are you talking about?
there is this thing called google where you can type things like "1 month tbill rate" and it gives you an answer
again, holding stocks will put you at a lot of risk due volatility
so you get a lot of high yield but your stock crashes 50%, you are fricked, simple concept that dividendgays fail to grasp
[...]
tbills suck, you lock your capital for a long time, and the yield is low anyway, and it will eventually go down when zirp arrives
Just google FIRE and the 3%/4% rule. It has already been figured out. Mostly stocks, some bonds (or maybe gold), withdraw 3% of the portfolio in year 1, then withdraw the same amount but adjusted for inflation every year after. Do it right and you can probably make your money last for the rest of your life, even if you retire into another great depression.
I guess depends how much you spend
My average spending per month on rent, food, electricity etc etc all that stuff comes out to around $1000 per month, or about $15k per year i guess
You can surely expect $15k per year with $400k?
I mean i dont live luxuriously or anything but its above NEETs
"Upper Middle Class" for me. It would cover my basic necessities and allow me enough to indulge in luxury. "Made It" status would be nice of course but I honestly think I would have a hard time spending 10k a month consistently. It's also a target that would be hard to reach, since if I hit 2 mil net worth during the crypto bullrun, it would be very hard for me at that point to just let it ride to "Made It" status. I would just cash out at that point. Currently have a high 6 figure portfolio in crypto, so I think 2 mil is achievable.
>. I would just cash out at that point.
beware of the tax burden. in the usa assuming you live in a low tax state, 2M would put you back in the middle class having to pay at least 400k in taxes
Same. 3-4M feels like my goal, but if something happened I would settle with 2M. 3-4M would be nice to be able to travel a few times a year, pursue more expensive hobbies like skiiing/snowboarding/photography/flying/etc.
Main problem for me is a lot of my liquid NW is currently tied up in retirement accounts with penalties if you take it out before 65. Not sure how other people get around that if you try to retire/NEET it up when you are much younger like 45-50.
Yeah personally for me it would probably be somewhere between 2.5 to 3.5 million. Enough that I really don't need to worry about money aside from expensive hobbies.
There are also ways around paying penalties in retirement accounts before 65.
I might need to update for the Feb inflation data but it wouldn't make a significant difference
Aiming for middle class range but with probably buying a property cause renting is a mess here in Australia.
I'm okay with working but I want to only really work part time instead of full time hours
In EU you can live well with 1M invested if you own property. I will semi retire once I have bought house and NW is above 2M.
25 % cash/gold
25 % home equity
50% crypto, stocks and etfs
that shit is moronic, seriously
every person who agrees with this shit is braindamage or trolling
BUT if i had to chose it would be middle class but living as the independent neet. So a lot of money and get some luxuries for my own enjoyment
Im already kind of headed in that direction, this year i will graduate and i already started looking for a good job, aside from making some designs for clients online or making crypto trades using dextools for max profit
You don't get to decide where you land in the end. You play the game and market forces will dictate where you end up. If you don't agree with the end result and keep holding for more the market will very readily take it all back.
Kek lil bro 80k salary is like 48k post tax, Uncle Sam gonna get his payment
Dont even say “dont pay taxes” because salaried employees get their paychecks automatically taxed
Having kids is so monumentally moronic and is only surpassed by incels' longing to have a family.
The "have a family" meme is literally pushed by fat middle aged boomers who are such losers that they seriously think completing the most basic evolutionary task is an "accomplishment". The funny thing is most of them have kids because they were too stupid to pull out. Yeah, your kids were accidents, quit acting like they were "miracles".
Having kids is so insanely moronic it makes sense why low-IQ people are the main child producers. Yeah, lemme just sentence myself to 3 consecutive years of sleepless nights followed by another 5 of making sure little timmy doesn't accidentally kill himself followed by 5 more years of literally never having a moment to yourself - all while your wife is getting fatter. Your life revolves around making sure you and her don't fight - which entails endless cleaning in your spare time and not being able to sit back and do whatever the frick you want because you'll be scared the wife will b***h at you. All just so you can have a miniature version of yourself that might turn into a lefty drug addict who obsesses over Black folk? Lmao yeah, have fun with that. 20% of Gen Z between 18-24 identify as LGBT by the way.
Tonight, I will do /whateverthefrickIwant/. What will you be doing? Sitting on the couch watching TV in peace IF YOURE LUCKY? Lmaooo yeah, hope it was worth it bro. What's funny is if this post was made on a Friday/Saturday night you'd literally have "parents" seething at me. Their weekends are spend in front of a fricking computer on IQfy instead of with their family hahahahaha so when they say "wahh I'll be with my family" Nah homie, you'll be on fricking IQfy because the only peace you get is when you lock yourself in the back room to quarantine yourself from them
I agree with you but the fact that you wrote all that proves all of that wrong. It's only true if it doesn't make you so upset you have to write a novel about it
Even if you somehow become a top 10% earner at 20 years old and maintain being in the top 10% and manage to invest every single extra penny you have @ 10% annual returns, you will not have $4 million invested until you are 50 years old. Your entire life slaved away, living like a peon just so you can continue living like a peon until you're ready to retire lmaoooooooooooooo
Who’s going to tell him?
that it should include taxes?
Taxes? Who's that?
t. poorgay or living in the 3rd world
>t. eurocuck or amerimutt
Here in Stockholm you've made it with $1m
A very good apartment for $600k and you can easily live off $400k passively, thats my goal
if you already have a house in Europe you are pretty much settled with mid six figures
>you can easily live off $400k passively,
Im from Spain and already have 400k€. How the frick do you live passively of that? Monetary funds are giving you around 3.7% at current rates, which will go lower.
So what do you have left that doesn't require volatility risk? (If you are into SP500, it can crash 20%+, not to mention 10+ year of bagholding in periods like dotcom or 2008)
>muh dividends
The underlying investment fluctuates. Also all the good dividend paying ETFs are from the US. I can buy stuff like SCHD or JEPI but the yield for SCHD is too low to live off 400k anyway, and JEPI is some wierd product backed by options, also the capital is probably shrinking against real inflation (has no growth in exchange of higher yield). Also consider taxes, and that dividends from the US have retention, so you have to wait for the next year to get them back by filing W8BEN. Its so fricking annoying. Also costs on every dividend payment in my bank at least are 0.3%
According to my calculations, you need at least 1 million invested to makeit, ideally 2, 1 million cool house, 1 million invested.
I need at least a 5x on this fricking money. I would have made it if I went all in on MSTR a couple months ago but I pussied out. Now im fricked.
>So what do you have left that doesn't require volatility risk?
tbills, real estate in a good location but there is always a risk.
alot of european stocks pays way higher dividens than the US
Not the least because European stocks are undervaluad
The US is in a bubble
again, holding stocks will put you at a lot of risk due volatility
so you get a lot of high yield but your stock crashes 50%, you are fricked, simple concept that dividendgays fail to grasp
tbills suck, you lock your capital for a long time, and the yield is low anyway, and it will eventually go down when zirp arrives
>you lock your capital for a long time
what are 1-month tbills anon?
what yield are you talking about? im already on money market monetary funds which have 1 to 3 months debt and yield is around €STR index (3.6-3.9%) at current rates, again, when rates are lowered it will be less
thats dogshit mate, and it only works if you inherited a house or live with your mom (i live with my mom)
you need 2000€ a month for decent living
this has only been calculated for the sp500 and bonds frick up the plan, also again, what if the sp500 dumps? you will be getting 3% out of potentially 30% less or more
this why again, you need to be able to live off that 3%, even after a big crash, and for that you need 1 million
>what if the sp500 dumps?
This is why you use the projection models, it will show you the number of outcomes in which they fail.
If you want to be extremely safe, then dump everything in TIPS or whatever. But your net worth will likely shrink over time and you will miss out on market gains
Again this stuff has pretty much been figured out, 3% works in 99.9% of scenarios
You can live off 15k but that's pretty much poverty line, you will basically be able to eat and pay rent and nothing else
like i said before, you ahve to account for max drawdon
yes, withdrawing 3% from a 100% sp500 portfolio should not result in loss of capital overtime (with some growth, im not sure how much)
my point is, you get a 50% crash year, and you are getting 3% from your initial capital -50%, so if you had 500k, you would get 3% from 250k, good luck with that
rates are different in eu pic rel
also again, they will drop once rates fall
>rates are different in eu pic rel
ok but why are you talking about euro bonds i'm talking about tbills? 4 week t bills have had a rate of 5%+ for almost a year now.
im not a burger and if i buy american tbills it defeats the point due currency conversion risk and fees and again rates will not stay up for the 9999th time dumbass
>my point is, you get a 50% crash year, and you are getting 3% from your initial capital -50%, so if you had 500k, you would get 3% from 250k, good luck with that
You're misunderstanding. You withdraw 3% from 500k in year 1 (15k), the next year inflation is 2% and the S&P 500 dumps 50%, and now you withdraw 15k + 2% (15.3k) from that ~250k. That's how the withdrawals are done in the simulations - you're not stuck with 3% of whatever your current portfolio is. It still works because the market's recovery and later growth makes up for your losses.
Also, if it was always a fixed percentage of your current portfolio, you would never run out of money even with a 99% withdrawal rate.
no, the models are calculated withdrawing 3% every year no matter what, if you try to compensate crashes by withdrawing more you'll frick it up
you need 1 million to retire properly so you can sustain 50% crash and still live from a 3% withdraw, stop coping
>able to eat and pay rent
The whole point of this situation is to have the leeway to find a better/comfortable way to earn money without being a corporate slave and having the risk of going homeless. It's a starting point.
>what yield are you talking about?
there is this thing called google where you can type things like "1 month tbill rate" and it gives you an answer
Just google FIRE and the 3%/4% rule. It has already been figured out. Mostly stocks, some bonds (or maybe gold), withdraw 3% of the portfolio in year 1, then withdraw the same amount but adjusted for inflation every year after. Do it right and you can probably make your money last for the rest of your life, even if you retire into another great depression.
I guess depends how much you spend
My average spending per month on rent, food, electricity etc etc all that stuff comes out to around $1000 per month, or about $15k per year i guess
You can surely expect $15k per year with $400k?
I mean i dont live luxuriously or anything but its above NEETs
"Upper Middle Class" for me. It would cover my basic necessities and allow me enough to indulge in luxury. "Made It" status would be nice of course but I honestly think I would have a hard time spending 10k a month consistently. It's also a target that would be hard to reach, since if I hit 2 mil net worth during the crypto bullrun, it would be very hard for me at that point to just let it ride to "Made It" status. I would just cash out at that point. Currently have a high 6 figure portfolio in crypto, so I think 2 mil is achievable.
>. I would just cash out at that point.
beware of the tax burden. in the usa assuming you live in a low tax state, 2M would put you back in the middle class having to pay at least 400k in taxes
Same. 3-4M feels like my goal, but if something happened I would settle with 2M. 3-4M would be nice to be able to travel a few times a year, pursue more expensive hobbies like skiiing/snowboarding/photography/flying/etc.
Main problem for me is a lot of my liquid NW is currently tied up in retirement accounts with penalties if you take it out before 65. Not sure how other people get around that if you try to retire/NEET it up when you are much younger like 45-50.
Yeah personally for me it would probably be somewhere between 2.5 to 3.5 million. Enough that I really don't need to worry about money aside from expensive hobbies.
There are also ways around paying penalties in retirement accounts before 65.
I might need to update for the Feb inflation data but it wouldn't make a significant difference
Lower middle class
Made it.
Thanks for reposting my infographic bros
Aiming for middle class range but with probably buying a property cause renting is a mess here in Australia.
I'm okay with working but I want to only really work part time instead of full time hours
Even $10k isn't enough a month. You can't even begin to live until you get $100k a month MINIMUM
>t. Goldberg.
10M is my goal by end of next year, 100M by the end of the decade, then I can comfortably spend a million a year
In EU you can live well with 1M invested if you own property. I will semi retire once I have bought house and NW is above 2M.
25 % cash/gold
25 % home equity
50% crypto, stocks and etfs
that shit is moronic, seriously
every person who agrees with this shit is braindamage or trolling
BUT if i had to chose it would be middle class but living as the independent neet. So a lot of money and get some luxuries for my own enjoyment
Im already kind of headed in that direction, this year i will graduate and i already started looking for a good job, aside from making some designs for clients online or making crypto trades using dextools for max profit
what's moronic?
You don't get to decide where you land in the end. You play the game and market forces will dictate where you end up. If you don't agree with the end result and keep holding for more the market will very readily take it all back.
tf are you talking about it's just an infograph of the level of wealth needed to have passive income
Kek lil bro 80k salary is like 48k post tax, Uncle Sam gonna get his payment
Dont even say “dont pay taxes” because salaried employees get their paychecks automatically taxed
withdrawals are taxed much less than income, so you it's actually better than what the chart shows
long term capital gain taxes are 15% for that bracket so you end up with 68k post tax
you cannot make it un less you can support a family with children obviosuly. wahts the point of living if you arent going to start a family
>what's the point of living if you don't become a wageslave to a woman
Having kids is so monumentally moronic and is only surpassed by incels' longing to have a family.
The "have a family" meme is literally pushed by fat middle aged boomers who are such losers that they seriously think completing the most basic evolutionary task is an "accomplishment". The funny thing is most of them have kids because they were too stupid to pull out. Yeah, your kids were accidents, quit acting like they were "miracles".
Having kids is so insanely moronic it makes sense why low-IQ people are the main child producers. Yeah, lemme just sentence myself to 3 consecutive years of sleepless nights followed by another 5 of making sure little timmy doesn't accidentally kill himself followed by 5 more years of literally never having a moment to yourself - all while your wife is getting fatter. Your life revolves around making sure you and her don't fight - which entails endless cleaning in your spare time and not being able to sit back and do whatever the frick you want because you'll be scared the wife will b***h at you. All just so you can have a miniature version of yourself that might turn into a lefty drug addict who obsesses over Black folk? Lmao yeah, have fun with that. 20% of Gen Z between 18-24 identify as LGBT by the way.
Tonight, I will do /whateverthefrickIwant/. What will you be doing? Sitting on the couch watching TV in peace IF YOURE LUCKY? Lmaooo yeah, hope it was worth it bro. What's funny is if this post was made on a Friday/Saturday night you'd literally have "parents" seething at me. Their weekends are spend in front of a fricking computer on IQfy instead of with their family hahahahaha so when they say "wahh I'll be with my family" Nah homie, you'll be on fricking IQfy because the only peace you get is when you lock yourself in the back room to quarantine yourself from them
I agree with you but the fact that you wrote all that proves all of that wrong. It's only true if it doesn't make you so upset you have to write a novel about it
It's a pasta so you just owned yourself
>I'd love to be 50 making $70k a year
4% of 4 Million is $160k/year.
Here is an income chart.
Even if you somehow become a top 10% earner at 20 years old and maintain being in the top 10% and manage to invest every single extra penny you have @ 10% annual returns, you will not have $4 million invested until you are 50 years old. Your entire life slaved away, living like a peon just so you can continue living like a peon until you're ready to retire lmaoooooooooooooo
I mean I'd love to be 50 years old and have 4M. That's super young to be financially independent these days. Sounds fantastic. What's wrong with that?
About $500 p/m so I don't have to work anymore.