What's with TradCath zoomers and the obsession with Traditional Latin Mass i.e. Tridentine Mass?
What's the point of having a language you don't understand like Latin? That's like the Muslim obsession with Arabic.
t. Orthodox
What's with TradCath zoomers and the obsession with Traditional Latin Mass i.e. Tridentine Mass?
>"""Tradition""":
1. the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being passed on in this way.
2. a doctrine believed to have divine authority though not in the scriptures.
Anything that is not in the rulebook is not a rule.
The search for the divine
Cathedrals, chants and chants in latin with ancient rituals just feels more feelier than gay priest giving a taylor swift concert.
People become Catholic because they're interested in the church that has stood for two millenia, the apostolic succession, the monumental cathedrals, the feels. If youŗe going to go moron then you might as well go full moron, and that is what the Catholic church offers.
If it wasn't for that they might as well sing in tongues at the local protestant shack
Because they’re LARPing and don’t seem to care that they’re missing the main part of church where the priest communicates Bible and Catholic lessons to the congregation.
Their grandparents and ancestors would think they have mental problems for doing it, and they’re probably right.
The main part of Church is praying and be blessed. It is mandatory in the Catholic church. Sermons, though important, are secondary and someone that's involved in the life of his/her parish will soak Christian dogma anyway. Sermons were always given in sermo vulgaris, i.e the language people actually speak; though quotes from the Bible would generally be in Latin and only the be translated with adequate commentary regarding the day's subject.
Did Jesus speak Latin? No. Did the original 12 apostles preach in Latin? No. Latin was just the official language of the western half of the Roman Empire, an empire that already fell more than 16 centuries ago.
Indeed, hence
They're not missing that part though since those parts are said in English at the TLM.
I've had experiences at sedevacantist churches. Usually, the sermons in English are 25-30 minutes or more. The TLM is around 2 or more hours. At the Novus Ordo, the sermons are only a few minutes and the service lasts only 45 minutes to an hour.
Tradcath zoomers is mostly cope about how religion will get them a wife (not even really a wife, just female attention and sex). 95% would leave if they thought they wouldn't get sex out of it.
After the liturgical reforms promulgated by the Church, the average mass has become quite mundane, profane even, in the way that it's celebrated. This is not necessarily due to the reform itself but to how it was applied by the priests and bishops. So when faced with this the more traditionally minded people, usually the ones more studied, prefer the solemnity and reverence of the older liturgy. There's a couple problems with this:
1. The Tridentine Liturgy is already untraditional and a distortion in many respects. Yes, the Novus Ordo isn't much better in that regard either. They both have elements that are traditional together with innovations. The most grievous error of the "Latin Mass", and the one the reform tried to fix, is that it suffers from the influence of the innovation and yes, liturgical abuse, that are the "low masses". There's no such thing as a "low mass" or "private mass" as opposed to "solemn mass", every liturgy is supposed to be Solemn, this was a medieval invention that led to the liturgy being something the priest did alone, he didn't need the congregation. If you're Orthodox you know how that's entirely different from the traditional perspective.
2. Latin itself was the vernacular language once, it's why the Latin translation of the bible is called 'Vulgate'. The language that was used in Rome before that, even in the liturgy, was Greek, the Latin was a translation. So it makes no sense to oppose use of vernacular in church. However, this doesn't mean latin should be abandoned completely, it was the language of common prayer for centuries and it retains value as that, but it shouldn't be put on a pedestal just because it makes the Mass more "mysterious" as some have argued.
I could go on, but I think you get the jist of it. If any of these traditionalists lived a century earlier they'd be hearing (not participating in) the low mass, not the spectacle they're used to.
The trads have more issues than just the language. They have issues with how the words changed and how the prayers changed. The Novus Ordo isn't an English translation of the TLM. It says different words.
I know that, but it's not as bad as they make it sound. For example, there's the common claim that the Novus Ordo reduces sacrificial language to appease protestants. I've recently attended a Novus Ordo mass that would by all the traditionalist standards be considered "modernist" and full of liturgical abuses and I've heard more mention of sacrifice, as in literally the word sacrifice in reference to what was happening there, than in the byzantine church I usually attend. That said, it's absolutely justifiable to say that many of the changes were unwarranted and actually detrimental, my particular pet peeve being the change of the words of consecration from "for many" to "for all".
What do you think of the trads that believe the eucharist is no longer present in the Novus Ordo and that it's just bread? That's another factor they list.
I don't see any reason to believe that and I trust the judgement of the Church that it's a valid liturgy. I know traditionalist circles up close and I guarantee you they barely agree with each other on anything, from Vatican II haters who still accept it to the most extreme Sedes what I see is a spirit of division. Unless they set up an alternative hierarchy (like the Palmarians) you won't find any magisterial teachings that are supposed to be authoritative, it's a new version of protestantism and they don't even see the irony of that.
Got a Bible? Good, put it on your right hand side. That's God's law. Read it. No problem.
Got a bunch of rules and laws that aren't in the Bible? That goes on your left hand side. It's for men to hold dominion over other men. It's for schizos who "just figured out" that Arianism is real or not real, or whatever. Saints who can do magic tricks with no supporting evidence. What kind of building you are allowed to worship in and who is in charge of talking to God for you. It's all made-up garbage.
That's why the Bible doesn't care what language you pray in and the Catholic Church does.
One is about who gets your prayers and your faith and the other one is about who gets your money and your obedience.
Wait until this homie figures out the Bible was written by men as well.
All miracles or "magic tricks" don't have scientific evidence. You just believe in them as a matter of faith and inspiration.
Christianity will die because the Bible was too vague and vulnerable to interpretation. Relying on either church traditions or personal interpretation to justify the way you worship is like bailing out a boat with a hole in it. I feel like Islam foresaw all these problems which is why it’s so resilient in the face of modernity.
>I feel like Islam foresaw all these problems which is why it’s so resilient in the face of modernity.
Islam is just Arabic protestantism with a new Messiah.
Christianity won't die it will inevitably morph to fit the cultural needs of the time wherever it is most prominent, which is trending towards Sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia in the form of American-style charismatic evangelicalism. The papacy will probably end up being moved to Manila 100 years from now.
>The papacy will probably end up being moved to Manila 100 years from now.
It already has
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogelio_Martinez_(antipope)
The language is unimportant, in fact it is the language of the beast, the prosecutors and torturers.
What's important about the traditional mass is that it is an order of magnitude more solemn. The respect that permeates the mass of always has nothing to do with the often degenerated novus ordo mass. Yes, novus ordo mass could also be solemn and last 1h 30' instead of 20', but as it happens it is almost never the case, because the prevalent modernist views have become the norm.
I understand using the local language, but the whole direction change feels very masonic
It's fairly trivial to learn Latin well enough to understand a church service.
It's just escapism
They care about aesthetics, mostly.
It's rooted in a lack of any historical continuity so they latch onto an identity that they never belonged to and will never understand the cultural aspects as they were likely never raised Catholic.
At least Muslims have the excuse that God revealed the Quran in Arabic. But Christians don't even think their Bible is word-for-word dictation from God, just written by humans who were particularly in touch with the Holy Spirit. And if they did the languages of choice for liturgy would be Greek and Hebrew, not Latin.