Not really. Byzantine Greek was already the same as modern Greek and Koine Greek was in fact pretty much the same as Attic Greek, and the key problem here is that Ancient Greek has only one living descendant unlike Latin so we can really speak about actual continuity in the language unlike, again, with Latin.
Church Latin has its uses but I do like how Classical Latin is "cleaner" and simple in the same way a Roman vs Gothic building is. You always know what a C is going to do in Classical Latin, but the Medieval is a bit more elaborate.
Neither, other than how it's pronounced and natrually how words change in the later it's not really that different. If you can read Classical you can read Ecclesiastical
>Ecclesiastical Latin has a heavy modern Italian inflection
Yes, but he didn't just call it italianized latin, he called it italian latin. Too bad that italian latin is literally what the italian language is.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Italian language is Florentine Vulgate. There was written 'Italian' before Dante, but it was Sicilian, a cousin language.
I've wasted many hours on this and concluded that the simplified reconstructed pronunciation is the best. It's fully phonetical and lacks both the kraut vowel system that has no way to be real and this awful palatalization. You may read about it in here: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrittura_e_pronuncia_del_latino#Versione_semplificata
But if you have to choose between just these two, choose Ecclesiastical as it is just more phonetic.
Based linguistic cumgenius.
https://i.imgur.com/03fN3Mr.jpg
I know it's [β], not [b]; I just don't think IQfy has full unicode support.
[...]
[...]
You are both incorrect.
Ecclesiastical Latin refers to the Latin of the Catholic Church - Liturgical Latin. It uses an Italianate pronunciation (with a couple changes) because the Vatican is in Rome. Well... an enclave surrounded by Rome.
Using your local pronunciation is just a local pronunciation. Doesn't really have a name. Danes will pronounce it like Danish, Spaniards like Spanish, etc.
>Danes will pronounce it like Danish
Not really, there's a more or less uniform standard in non-Romance Europe. Pretty much like Ecclesiastical but G is always IQfy and soft C is /ts/ and not /ch/.
>may read about it in here
Though it doesn't mention that L was generally "dark" like in Romanian and Portuguese and S was retracted like in Castilian Spanish, unlike in Ecclesiastical and Italian.
Neither ecclesiastical nor classical is like this.
You're thinking of Spanish.
NEITHER OF YOU KNOW THE SPANISH LANGUAGE.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I know it's [β], not [b]; I just don't think IQfy has full unicode support.
That is what Ecclesiastical Latin sounds like in Spanish dude.
You... You do realize that "Ecclesiastical Latin" isn't one language but is just "Latin pronounced using the phonology of some other language", right?
You are both incorrect.
Ecclesiastical Latin refers to the Latin of the Catholic Church - Liturgical Latin. It uses an Italianate pronunciation (with a couple changes) because the Vatican is in Rome. Well... an enclave surrounded by Rome.
Using your local pronunciation is just a local pronunciation. Doesn't really have a name. Danes will pronounce it like Danish, Spaniards like Spanish, etc.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Using your local pronunciation is just a local pronunciation
Yeah, that's Ecclesiastical Latin. If you're referring to some historical variety of Italian then that's some historical variety of Italian, and it's not what people mean when they say "Ecclesiastical Latin".
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're wrong.
I didn't fricking mention Italian at all.
I said Church Latin has an Italianate pronunciation (save for modified vowel sounds).
This is true whether you visit a Catholic church in D.C., Buenos Aires, or Stockholm.
The IQ of this board declines by the day.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>the language spoken in Rome at [point in the Medieval period]
So Italian.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Who are you quoting?
What the frick are you talking about?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>This is true whether you visit a Catholic church in D.C., Buenos Aires, or Stockholm.
I have done this. The Latin spoken varies from place to place because the Church just tells people to read Latin according to their native tongue's pronunciation rules.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It does not. The Catholic Church asserts a pronunciation on its parishioners. If you encounter someone not using the defined Ecclesiastical pronunciation, you have encountered an educated person.
Catholic Priests are instructed what pronunciation to use. This is also the form most often taught in schools.
The Coptic church uses Coptic, the late form of the Egyptian language, as their liturgical language; it has a pronunciation in flux. In the 1800s there was a talk of undoing the schism between Orthodox and Coptic churches. So they began to read Coptic letters as if they were Greek letters. Which is ridiculous.
Pope Shenouda tried to undo this and worked with linguistics to reconstruct an older pronunciation. This is what is usually used, but you can still find people using a Hellenic pronunciation.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>you have encountered an educated person.
uneducated*
English not having vowel length built into its phonemic inventory and instead using coda conditions is crosslinguistically very rare. Most languages, Latin included as we're told so by Classical authors, include it as part of the vowel phoneme.
both are good
just like Koine vs Byzantine
Not really. Byzantine Greek was already the same as modern Greek and Koine Greek was in fact pretty much the same as Attic Greek, and the key problem here is that Ancient Greek has only one living descendant unlike Latin so we can really speak about actual continuity in the language unlike, again, with Latin.
However Kickero sounds better than Cheechero
Church Latin has its uses but I do like how Classical Latin is "cleaner" and simple in the same way a Roman vs Gothic building is. You always know what a C is going to do in Classical Latin, but the Medieval is a bit more elaborate.
>sounds kinda lame
You're probably saying it wrong.
In terms of Pronunciation I prefer Classical overall. I particularly dislike how Ecclesiastical uses /ɲ/ for "gn".
What about Vulgar Latin?
I personally like Vulgar and Medieval Latin, mainly because it's easier to read.
Neither, other than how it's pronounced and natrually how words change in the later it's not really that different. If you can read Classical you can read Ecclesiastical
Vulgar Latin is just Classical Latin
SO CALLED «ECCLESIASTICAL LATIN» IS ACTUALLY ITALIAN LATIN; IT IS ITALIANIZED LATIN, AND IT SOUNDS AWFUL.
>ITALIANIZED LATIN
You mean the italian language? That's not the same as ecclesiastic latin, you moron.
IF YOU ARE DUMB, PLEASE, DO NOT REPLY TO MY POSTS.
He's angry but he has a point. Ecclesiastical Latin has a heavy modern Italian inflection. I don't think it's bad sounding, just different.
>Ecclesiastical Latin has a heavy modern Italian inflection
Yes, but he didn't just call it italianized latin, he called it italian latin. Too bad that italian latin is literally what the italian language is.
Italian language is Florentine Vulgate. There was written 'Italian' before Dante, but it was Sicilian, a cousin language.
I've wasted many hours on this and concluded that the simplified reconstructed pronunciation is the best. It's fully phonetical and lacks both the kraut vowel system that has no way to be real and this awful palatalization. You may read about it in here: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrittura_e_pronuncia_del_latino#Versione_semplificata
But if you have to choose between just these two, choose Ecclesiastical as it is just more phonetic.
Based linguistic cumgenius.
>Danes will pronounce it like Danish
Not really, there's a more or less uniform standard in non-Romance Europe. Pretty much like Ecclesiastical but G is always IQfy and soft C is /ts/ and not /ch/.
>may read about it in here
Though it doesn't mention that L was generally "dark" like in Romanian and Portuguese and S was retracted like in Castilian Spanish, unlike in Ecclesiastical and Italian.
>baynee beedee beekee
Fricking atrocious, Classical is better.
Neither ecclesiastical nor classical is like this.
You're thinking of Spanish.
That is what Ecclesiastical Latin sounds like in Spanish dude.
NEITHER OF YOU KNOW THE SPANISH LANGUAGE.
I know it's [β], not [b]; I just don't think IQfy has full unicode support.
You are both incorrect.
Ecclesiastical Latin refers to the Latin of the Catholic Church - Liturgical Latin. It uses an Italianate pronunciation (with a couple changes) because the Vatican is in Rome. Well... an enclave surrounded by Rome.
Using your local pronunciation is just a local pronunciation. Doesn't really have a name. Danes will pronounce it like Danish, Spaniards like Spanish, etc.
>Using your local pronunciation is just a local pronunciation
Yeah, that's Ecclesiastical Latin. If you're referring to some historical variety of Italian then that's some historical variety of Italian, and it's not what people mean when they say "Ecclesiastical Latin".
You're wrong.
I didn't fricking mention Italian at all.
I said Church Latin has an Italianate pronunciation (save for modified vowel sounds).
This is true whether you visit a Catholic church in D.C., Buenos Aires, or Stockholm.
The IQ of this board declines by the day.
>the language spoken in Rome at [point in the Medieval period]
So Italian.
Who are you quoting?
What the frick are you talking about?
>This is true whether you visit a Catholic church in D.C., Buenos Aires, or Stockholm.
I have done this. The Latin spoken varies from place to place because the Church just tells people to read Latin according to their native tongue's pronunciation rules.
It does not. The Catholic Church asserts a pronunciation on its parishioners. If you encounter someone not using the defined Ecclesiastical pronunciation, you have encountered an educated person.
Catholic Priests are instructed what pronunciation to use. This is also the form most often taught in schools.
The Coptic church uses Coptic, the late form of the Egyptian language, as their liturgical language; it has a pronunciation in flux. In the 1800s there was a talk of undoing the schism between Orthodox and Coptic churches. So they began to read Coptic letters as if they were Greek letters. Which is ridiculous.
Pope Shenouda tried to undo this and worked with linguistics to reconstruct an older pronunciation. This is what is usually used, but you can still find people using a Hellenic pronunciation.
>you have encountered an educated person.
uneducated*
You... You do realize that "Ecclesiastical Latin" isn't one language but is just "Latin pronounced using the phonology of some other language", right?
>Pronuntiatio classica optima est.
>Proooonuuuuuntiiiiiaaaaaatiiiiiiiooooooi claaaaaaaaaassiiiiiicaaaaaaaaaaaaa oooooooptiiiiiiiimaaaaaaa eeeeeeest.
bene, barbare
English not having vowel length built into its phonemic inventory and instead using coda conditions is crosslinguistically very rare. Most languages, Latin included as we're told so by Classical authors, include it as part of the vowel phoneme.
Ask /clg/.
Classical sounds artificial